Dan Millman - gauging spiritual maturity

[Green Tiger]

I've often seen debates here and in other places about whether or not such-and-such teacher is enlightened. It's a sticky subject, fraught with peril. The only thing worse than trying to gauge someone else's spiritual maturity, is trying to gauge your own. I don't torture people by asking them if they're enlightened, but I do like to hear how people answer that question.

 

Dan Millman's response on his website's FAQ was a particularly good response:

 

 

Life is a series of moments. So it depends on which moment you catch me. Some moments I behave in an illumined manner, with clarity and compassion; other times, less so.

 

If you observed my day-to-day life, you would likely find qualities that reflect a certain maturity, discipline, and balance. I have not mastered all that I teach, but I sincerely practice and do my best to teach by example.

 

I can claim no more, and do no less.

 

My wife (and children) don't view me as a teacher, but as a husband (and dad) with human foibles.

This seems a more realistic way to respond to questions about whether or not I am "enlightened." We cannot truly know anyone else's degree of spiritual maturity except by observing how they live, moment to moment.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Green Tiger

[h.uriahr]

True

[mjjbecker]

Francesco Garri Garripoli observed in a talk he gave (I think it can be found on one of the qigong research websites) that all the qigong teachers he had met had their own problems and issues to deal with. Students often have unrealistic expectations of their teachers and can subsequently be overly judgmental.

 

I'm far more concerned about a teacher being a fundamentally decent and moral person with a working moral compass. They will certainly make errors like everyone else.

 

Ellis Amdur in one of his books mentioned some advice that the late Hung I Hsiang gave him about teachers. It was to be careful about the teachers you choose, because ultimately you will take on some of their personality traits, good and bad. Martial arts and 'spiritual' paths have certainly had their share of sociopath 'gurus' who have mentally, physically and sexually abused their students.

 

Part of the path to 'enlightenment' is seeing things as they are and not what we wish them to be.

[grady]

Part of the path to 'enlightenment' is seeing things as they are and not what we wish them to be.

 

Fixed it for you.

 

Everyone who continues to conflate "enlightenment" and "moral conduct" should go read Crowley's "8 Lectures on Yoga".

 

As an aside, what you wrote about 洪懿祥 Hong Yixiang rings true, based on the things I've heard of the man from those who studied with him.

Edited September 17, 2013 by leandro

[mjjbecker]

Fixed it for you.

 

Everyone who continues to conflate "enlightenment" and "moral conduct" should go read Crowley's "8 Lectures on Yoga".

 

As an aside, what you wrote about 洪懿祥 Hong Yixiang rings true, based on the things I've heard of the man from those who studied with him.

 

No, I meant what I wrote.

 

Some will sell their souls in the pursuit of power.

 

Not my story. I believe I gave the source quite clearly.

[grady]

Not my story. I believe I gave the source quite clearly.

 

In that case, what you wrote about what Ellis Amdur wrote about 洪懿祥 Hong Yixiang rings true, based on the things I've heard of the man from those who studied with him.

Edited September 17, 2013 by leandro

[安永樂]

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Edited August 22, 2019 by 安永樂