Issues and Practices for various stages of Spiritual Progression

[Jeff]

As a spinoff the Transmission in the Christian Tradition thread, there seemed to be some interest in discussing higher level spiritual practices and specific issues with various steps along the way. The purpose of this thread is discuss these topics.

 

As a starting point, I think that it is critical that there be some agreed upon framework as to some concept of "levels" to spiritual progression. As a starting point, I offer up my previously described stages of progression from an older thread (http://thetaobums.com/topic/25866-stages-of-progressionenlightenment/). Here is the list again...

 

1 Normal State – Wandering mind. Some will often have 3-6 (or more) threads/dialogs of thought jumping around. Nothing is usually noticed regarding “energy”. Sometimes sense of hot/cold.

2 Temporary One Thread – In meditation, one quiets to one focused thread (as in mantra or concentration). At this state, one may begin to notice energy (if looking for it) and it often begin to feel like tingles or vibrations in the body.

3 Temporary quiet mind – One can begin to see/trace thoughts. Can feel the “movement” of energy and notice chakras.

4 Stable quiet meditation – One can perceive the nature/energy of mind. Can perceive astral experiences. Begin to notice “obstructions” in the flow of energy. Feel/see chakras in energy body. With practice, can begin to see auras.

5 Expansion of quiet mind to normal life – One begins to “see themselves” doing things. An example is seeing yourself getting angry, but can’t stop yourself. Significant control over energy flows. Become more resistant to sickness.

6 Quiet mind in life – Usually only one thread going, sometimes no threads. Can see and stop yourself from getting angry. All chakras open. The chakras start to “merge”. Less distinct chakra feeling. Can consciously perceive energy in others and surroundings.

7 Calm mind – No real thoughts unless there is something to do/decide. Meditation and life are the same. Body/mind energy field integrates and collapses. No meaningful energy feeling. Often described as nothingness or perceiving "consciousness/awareness". Many stop here and declare victory.

8 Noticing Oneness – Something “tickles” the calm mind. Curiosity returns. Begin to break beyond the local body-mind. Begin to perceive “light” (spiritual/cosmic/existence) energy. Energy body feels like every cell is vibrating in harmony. Level of "soul", in Christian/Islamic terms.

9 See Oneness – Feels like every soul is inside you. Begin integration with existence. Perceive/feel "light" energy and that it is all one. No longer perceive/worry about astral stuff.

10 Oneness – Can feel everyone. Begin building rainbow/light body. Beyond astral perception. On the astral level, the light body looks like a blob/ball of light. Can connect/merge/oneness to any being and send transmit “light” (energy/knowledge). Directly contact light bodies of divine beings.

11 Oneness beyond time – Can perceive parallel realities and beyond time. More powerful light body. Feel/contact parallel versions of your self. Access/effect Karma. Contact “higher” divine beings. Subconsciously feel primordial state/God/Tau/Emptiness.

12 Primordial State – Level of Prophets/Buddhas. Completion of rainbow/light body. Being "one with God/Emptiness". Depending on your perspective, gone or do whatever you want.

 

Everyone feel free to comment, agree or disagree. Once we have a more or less agreed upon framework, we can move on the issues/practices part.

 

 

[Intentwielder]

It seems pertinent to ask you Jeff, and others here, about the practice of gnosticism.

 

The word comes, as I'm sure people here know, from the Greek root "gnosis" meaning "to know". Gnosticism is a state or practice which results in knowing. In other words, it refers to the ability to perceive truth directly without need of scriptures, church hierarchies, priests or gurus.

 

The ability to know directly is innate, which is to say, it is a bi-product of being the centers of consciousness that we are. That ability can be enhanced greatly through meditative/spiritual practices.

 

Scritpural references can be useful, I suppose, though they are generally anything but conclusive, (logically and clearly stated).

But with regard even to those that are, is it not true that a gnostic had to write/cognize them to start with, for such passages to even exist? Given this, is it not better to See directly, and know through practice, than to follow doctrines or memorize/quote scriptures?

 

MY point here is that the words "gnostic" or "gnosticism" seem by definition to directly contradict the practice of "religions", and that it is better to invest in means, (direct cognition) than ends, (somebody elses' interpretation).

[Jeff]

Hi IW,

 

I would agree in general with your point. In my opinion, the best path is for one to "go inside" and find out for themselves the truth.

 

But, I do not see how your comments relate to this thread. Are you implying that there is no "general" human spiritual progression to discuss?

[Intentwielder]

I like this progression (of degrees of awareness) you started this thread with, by the way. It looks to be practical.

 

Jeff said;

“But, I do not see how your comments relate to this thread. Are you implying that there is no "general" human spiritual progression to discuss? “

 

Iw;

No, I'm not implying that. I'm saying that practice is 99% taking action according to principles, (natuiral laws and practical applications) and 1% in quoting doctrinal positions and scriptures. I point this out given the current content of the main thread you started on this subject.

 

The terms “practitioner, adept, Master, High Master” also represent a progression of consciousness. In fact, one could easily call them “levels of consciousness”. The higher the level the greater the perception/awareness as a general rule. This is how I see your listed progression as well.

 

In any such progression, intent is key, as is the embodiment of each level of awareness when it is reached, so that the next level(s) can then be achieved subsequently. This is, generally speaking, what makes the statement “you too can do as I” truth and valid, as anyone can expand their consciousness by degrees, through the right intent to do so.

 

What intentions do you recommend to reach the level of Master?

[Jeff]

IW,

 

To try to answer your question, having some descriptions as to you definitions of the levels would be helpful. From my perspective, to be qualified to be a master/guru, one must have reached the level of realizing the "light" of consciousness (or God in the world/Holy Spirit). This would be levels 8-10 on my above descriptions. Anything less and you are too subject to the issues/fears and obstructions of mind. Also, many stop/get stuck at level 7 thinking they are "done", as the "local mind" is now quiet. (Jed McKenna books are a good example of this).

 

As one reaches the deeper level's of consciousness, intent becomes critical. One increasingly becomes able to affect their existence and the thing around them. To a large existent, the percieved endgame is defined by one's own beliefs and intent. Historically, many traditions have had the "cease into God" concept as the endgame. Buddha realized there was a broader and deeper perspective, of helping everyone "realize" the truth. That is why he created the concept of the "vow". To help lock in a deep intent, so that one did not cease (or quit) in the bliss of oneness.

 

To your specific Master question. For intent, it requires two components. The first is a drive for realizing the "truth". An desire to "go inside" and explore with no preconceived beliefs. This point is why the sutras of all traditions say things like knowledge=bondage. The second component is something like the Buddhist vow, but it is more like as described by Jesus, "love your neighbor as yourself". The word "love" is often mistaken to have some romantic concept, so in modern terms, the intent for a master level, may be better said as "forgive everyone for everything". It may sound corny, but truly forgiving others is the key to the inner heart/light and becoming a "master".

[Jetsun]

Is this a Gnostic or Hermetic map or are you talking in general?

 

If you are talking in general I think it is an assumption that sensitivity of energy has anything to do with it, that isn't part of the Vedanta path or Zen really, which is more about the nature of identity than anything else. The whole concept of levels doesn't really apply from that perspective either as anyone can awaken in any moment and the whole concept of levels of progression is based in thought and based in time, whereas the primordial consciousness that we all are is not defined by thought or time.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Jetsun

[Jeff]

Is this a Gnostic or Hermetic map or are you talking in general?

 

If you are talking in general I think it is an assumption that sensitivity of energy has anything to do with it, that isn't part of the Vedanta path or Zen really, which is more about the nature of identity than anything else. The whole concept of levels doesn't really apply from that perspective either as anyone can awaken in any moment and the whole concept of levels of progression is based in thought and based in time, whereas the primordial consciousness that we all are is not defined by thought or time.

Hi Jetsun,

 

The stages are meant to be a general map across all traditions with descriptions of what is experienced. The descriptions were more energetically given the broader TaoBums audience. But, in each case one can describe each "level" in terms of states of mind.

 

I would also agree that one can "skip" any or all steps, I was just trying to provide a broader mapping.

 

In particular, traditions like Zen are more mind based. It is possible to reach clarity of mind (7) with no energy aspects experienced. But, I believe that if one read's the Lankavatara sutra (pretty universal Zen sutra), you will see that Buddha discusses the importance of the "vow" to move on to full enlightenment. Also, it goes into great detail on the various levels of realization of emptiness, each of which also would map directly to the generic descriptions above. Energy aspects are included in the later stages of development in Buddhism (often called the completion stage).

[MooNiNite]

 

12 Primordial State – Level of Prophets/Buddhas. Completion of rainbow/light body. Being "one with God/Emptiness". Depending on your perspective, gone or do whatever you want.

 

this is a sweet thread u made Jeff.

 

i believe that the ego self still remains, by ego i mean individuality, even though they are one with the universe

 

 

from what i have read, the practitioner is not free from karma until #12..even though they are enlightened/awakened somewhere at #10

 

 

 

 

Something i was gonna talk about in a thread.

 

 

 

 

some type of asexual evolutionary pregnation of the practitioner

Edited September 30, 2013 by MooNiNite

[Jeff]

 

this is a sweet thread u made Jeff.

 

i believe that the ego self still remains, by ego i mean individuality, even though they are one with the universefrom what i have read, the practitioner is not free from karma until #12..even though they are enlightened/awakened somewhere at #10

Something i was gonna talk about in a thread. When one becomes enlightened/awakened 7th chakra..whatever, they awaken the astral body that corrilates with the 8th or 7th chakra. These bodies are both male and female. Then the practitioner develops an immortal fetus. im basically assuming that the male/female body created reproduces by itself and impregnates itself...

some type of asexual evolutionary pregnation of the practitioner

Hi MooNiNite,

 

Thank you for your kind words.

 

Regarding Karma, you are correct that one is never truly free until 12, but by level 8, one has mostly stopped creating new Karma on a personal level.

 

I also think you raise a very good point regarding the integration of the male and female components. Realizing the 7th chakra would be comparable to level 7, the 8th chakra (or inner heart/soul) is levels 8-9. One's "higher self" or deeper component of the subconscious is the opposite sex. The true realization of "oneness" requires the bringing together of the male and female sides of our being. While it could be described as being like sex in the early stages, it is really much more like "merging". This merging give "birth" to the new "immortal" being. This same thing is called the "mystery of the bridal chamber" in gnostic Christianity or part of the "completion stage" practices in Buddhism.

[MooNiNite]

Hi MooNiNite,

 

Thank you for your kind words.

 

Regarding Karma, you are correct that one is never truly free until 12, but by level 8, one has mostly stopped creating new Karma on a personal level.

 

I also think you raise a very good point regarding the integration of the male and female components. Realizing the 7th chakra would be comparable to level 7, the 8th chakra (or inner heart/soul) is levels 8-9. One's "higher self" or deeper component of the subconscious is the opposite sex. The true realization of "oneness" requires the bringing together of the male and female sides of our being. While it could be described as being like sex in the early stages, it is really much more like "merging". This merging give "birth" to the new "immortal" being. This same thing is called the "mystery of the bridal chamber" in gnostic Christianity or part of the "completion stage" practices in Buddhism.

 

i think its a little strange that the body you give birth to (immortal fetus) is still you. like normally in nature a baby is its own self and separate from the parent. have u read anything about the immortal body having its own identity?

[Jeff]

 

i think its a little strange that the body you give birth to (immortal fetus) is still you. like normally in nature a baby is its own self and separate from the parent. have u read anything about the immortal body having its own identity?

I may have some how given you a misconception regarding the immortal fetus. The immortal fetus is not a "you" as constrained in the human body. It is a complete divine being. Think of it in terms of an archangel, taoist "immortal" or some people's concept of a god. Such beings are literally beyond the constraints of time and space.

[MooNiNite]

I may have some how given you a misconception regarding the immortal fetus. The immortal fetus is not a "you" as constrained in the human body. It is a complete divine being. Think of it in terms of an archangel, taoist "immortal" or some people's concept of a god. Such beings are literally beyond the constraints of time and space.

 

do they then merge with this complete divine being? People refer to the last stage of cultivation as "merging with the light"

 

 

 

1 Normal State – Wandering mind. Some will often have 3-6 (or more) threads/dialogs of thought jumping around. Nothing is usually noticed regarding “energy”. Sometimes sense of hot/cold.

 

 

 

2 Temporary One Thread – In meditation, one quiets to one focused thread (as in mantra or concentration). At this state, one may begin to notice energy (if looking for it) and it often begin to feel like tingles or vibrations in the body.

 

3 Temporary quiet mind – One can begin to see/trace thoughts. Can feel the “movement” of energy and notice chakras.

 

 

4 Stable quiet meditation – One can perceive the nature/energy of mind. Can perceive astral experiences. Begin to notice “obstructions” in the flow of energy. Feel/see chakras in energy body. With practice, can begin to see auras.

 

at the end of stage 4 (when it opens) there is an activation experience, that is very powerful and gives insight into . Also Fearless is powerful at this stage, begin to take a few more risks

 

5 Expansion of quiet mind to normal life – One begins to “see themselves” doing things. An example is seeing yourself getting angry, but can’t stop yourself. Significant control over energy flows. Become more resistant to sickness.

 

6 Quiet mind in life – Usually only one thread going, sometimes no threads. Can see and stop yourself from getting angry. All chakras open. The chakras start to “merge”. Less distinct chakra feeling. Can consciously perceive energy in others and surroundings.

 

Gain awareness of , and spirit... PSY not only perceive, but manifest. Second layer of

 

7 Calm mind – No real thoughts unless there is something to do/decide. Meditation and life are the same. Body/mind energy field integrates and collapses. No meaningful energy feeling. Often described as nothingness or perceiving "consciousness/awareness". Many stop here and declare victory.

The activation of this level, literally q, the spinning of the literally creates. The biggest shift at this stage is having no its not a thought, but a feeling of being It doesn't sound big, but it is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is this a Gnostic or Hermetic map or are you talking in general?

 

If you are talking in general I think it is an assumption that sensitivity of energy has anything to do with it, that isn't part of the Vedanta path or Zen really, which is more about the nature of identity than anything else. The whole concept of levels doesn't really apply from that perspective either as anyone can awaken in any moment and the whole concept of levels of progression is based in thought and based in time, whereas the primordial consciousness that we all are is not defined by thought or time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

IW,

 

To try to answer your question, having some descriptions as to you definitions of the levels would be helpful. From my perspective, to be qualified to be a master/guru, one must have reached the level of realizing the "light" of consciousness (or God in the world/Holy Spirit). This would be levels 8-10 on my above descriptions. Anything less and you are too subject to the issues/fears and obstructions of mind. Also, many stop/get stuck at level 7 thinking they are "done", as the "local mind" is now quiet. (Jed McKenna books are a good example of this).

 

 

 

yes

 

"love your neighbor as yourself". The word "love" is often mistaken to have some romantic concept, so in modern terms, the intent for a master level, may be better said as "forgive everyone for everything". It may sound corny, but truly forgiving others is the key to the inner heart/light and becoming a "master".

 

 

 

careful about knowing too much jeff. it can cause madness

Edited September 30, 2013 by MooNiNite

[Jeff]

 

do they then merge with this complete divine being? People refer to the last stage of cultivation as "merging with the light"

 

It is a little more like the expand or explode into the complete divine being. It is a radical shift, like going from 3D to 13D. All past, present, future and parallel world versions of yourself are also integrated. This is also why they say talk about all Buddhas being 3 fold (past, present and future).

 

Reaching level 12 is very rare (like once every 1000 years), when most people describe "merging with the light", they are describing level 8 (or possibly level 6 with astral light) and the light of consciousness.

 

p.s. I also appreciated your additional perspectives in the above post.

[MooNiNite]

It is a little more like the expand or explode into the complete divine being. It is a radical shift, like going from 3D to 13D. All past, present, future and parallel world versions of yourself are also integrated. This is also why they say talk about all Buddhas being 3 fold (past, present and future).

 

Reaching level 12 is very rare (like once every 1000 years), when most people describe "merging with the light", they are describing level 8 (or possibly level 6 with astral light) and the light of consciousness.

 

p.s. I also appreciated your additional perspectives in the above post.

thats awesome. This must be different from a celestial taoist immortal then. they say it is attained , and i have easily read about 4 masters this decade who have attained it.

 

 

Also,

 

i have a question though about levels 9-12...do you believe the levels are individual chakras above one another like 1-8? (like each chakra corresponding to each level).

 

on a side note, there are at least three miniature chakras

Edited September 30, 2013 by MooNiNite

[Jeff]

thats awesome. This must be different from a celestial taoist immortal then. they say it is attained 7 years after enlightenment, and i have easily read about 4 masters this decade who have attained it.

 

and yes probably level 8. level 6 is just a bright flash. level 8 the light surrounds the whole body.

 

Also,

 

i have a question though about levels 9-12...do you believe the levels are individual chakras above one another like 1-8? (like each chakra corresponding to each level).

 

on a side note, there are at least three miniature chakras between levels 6 and 7.

Very good points. Going "light body" and leaving your physical form is different than going all the way to 12. One can transfer their consciousness into a light form starting at level 9-10. Also, each human body sort of has a maximum amount of light/energy that it can hold, to go beyond it, one must leave physical form. All human evolution has progressed, the human body can now hold more than in earlier times.

 

Yes, there are individual chakras that continue after the 8th (but they don't map to the 12 levels).

 

Also, another good point on the mini chakras. There are many others in the body, also some people don't notice the 8th as above the head, the feel it as an expansion in the inner heart. It sort of depends if you are more outwardly or inwardly focused.

[BaguaKicksAss]

As a spinoff the Transmission in the Christian Tradition thread, there seemed to be some interest in discussing higher level spiritual practices and specific issues with various steps along the way. The purpose of this thread is discuss these topics.

 

As a starting point, I think that it is critical that there be some agreed upon framework as to some concept of "levels" to spiritual progression. As a starting point, I offer up my previously described stages of progression from an older thread (http://thetaobums.com/topic/25866-stages-of-progressionenlightenment/). Here is the list again...

 

1 Normal State – Wandering mind. Some will often have 3-6 (or more) threads/dialogs of thought jumping around. Nothing is usually noticed regarding “energy”. Sometimes sense of hot/cold.

 

2 Temporary One Thread – In meditation, one quiets to one focused thread (as in mantra or concentration). At this state, one may begin to notice energy (if looking for it) and it often begin to feel like tingles or vibrations in the body.

 

3 Temporary quiet mind – One can begin to see/trace thoughts. Can feel the “movement” of energy and notice chakras.

 

4 Stable quiet meditation – One can perceive the nature/energy of mind. Can perceive astral experiences. Begin to notice “obstructions” in the flow of energy. Feel/see chakras in energy body. With practice, can begin to see auras.

 

5 Expansion of quiet mind to normal life – One begins to “see themselves” doing things. An example is seeing yourself getting angry, but can’t stop yourself. Significant control over energy flows. Become more resistant to sickness.

 

6 Quiet mind in life – Usually only one thread going, sometimes no threads. Can see and stop yourself from getting angry. All chakras open. The chakras start to “merge”. Less distinct chakra feeling. Can consciously perceive energy in others and surroundings.

 

7 Calm mind – No real thoughts unless there is something to do/decide. Meditation and life are the same. Body/mind energy field integrates and collapses. No meaningful energy feeling. Often described as nothingness or perceiving "consciousness/awareness". Many stop here and declare victory.

 

8 Noticing Oneness – Something “tickles” the calm mind. Curiosity returns. Begin to break beyond the local body-mind. Begin to perceive “light” (spiritual/cosmic/existence) energy. Energy body feels like every cell is vibrating in harmony. Level of "soul", in Christian/Islamic terms.

 

9 See Oneness – Feels like every soul is inside you. Begin integration with existence. Perceive/feel "light" energy and that it is all one. No longer perceive/worry about astral stuff.

 

10 Oneness – Can feel everyone. Begin building rainbow/light body. Beyond astral perception. On the astral level, the light body looks like a blob/ball of light. Can connect/merge/oneness to any being and send transmit “light” (energy/knowledge). Directly contact light bodies of divine beings.

 

11 Oneness beyond time – Can perceive parallel realities and beyond time. More powerful light body. Feel/contact parallel versions of your self. Access/effect Karma. Contact “higher” divine beings. Subconsciously feel primordial state/God/Tau/Emptiness.

 

12 Primordial State – Level of Prophets/Buddhas. Completion of rainbow/light body. Being "one with God/Emptiness". Depending on your perspective, gone or do whatever you want.

 

Everyone feel free to comment, agree or disagree. Once we have a more or less agreed upon framework, we can move on the issues/practices part.

 

That does sum it up really well . Definitely an nteresting thread.

 

I have worked with dozens of practitioners, and also had many students. I have noticed a few out of order things which happen quite often. I wonder if it is the differences in practices, or perhaps just natural talents we were born with? I have had some students who are at #2 and can pull off some amazing stuff!

 

#4, many people can not see auras at this point, often not until #6.

 

#6, the consciously seeing/feeling energy, some can do it at #2.

 

#8 Can be experienced in deep meditation by people who have definitely not reached #7 or 8 in other ways. Sometimes as early on as #4. #9 can pop up with long-term daily practice, but not always having achieved some of the ones before it. I find those who can't do #7 yet, but who are good at achieving altered states for practice can pull it off .

 

#10 you must mean something different by "astral perception" than I'm thinking? Some folks come in with this naturally (I mean the way I mean it) while others get it at #4.

 

I'm still working on #7, it is a goal, one day. Mine haven't been quite in order either lol.

 

Since his is the hermetic forum, could you please talk about what the rainbow body is in hermetic terminology? I have read about it a few times, but do not quite understand the concept. It's gotten me curious. Not that it is something I'm trying to learn or anything, it is still quite interesting .

 

Something interesting about these states or levels, is that I taught kids metaphysics for awhile (part of a treatment program they were doing, and I was authorized, it was pretty awesome actually) and I have to say... most of them could just naturally with barely trying hit most of these!

[BaguaKicksAss]

Hmmmm, I'm curious where a few things would fit in...

 

1. the seeing and perceiving of various not corporeal entties.

2. Having said entities notice and respond to you (the notice part is easy the respond bit not as much).

3. Healing of others

4. Seeing or knowing the past, present and future (without a divination system).

5. Telepathy

6. 2nd sight (though this might fall under seeing auras).

 

Btw, I'm really curious where you came about the list? I'm assuming you haven't reached #12 yet (though I could be wrong). I've not seen such lists before, kinda neat.

[Jeff]

That does sum it up really well . Definitely an nteresting thread.

 

I have worked with dozens of practitioners, and also had many students. I have noticed a few out of order things which happen quite often. I wonder if it is the differences in practices, or perhaps just natural talents we were born with? I have had some students who are at #2 and can pull off some amazing stuff!

 

#4, many people can not see auras at this point, often not until #6.

 

#6, the consciously seeing/feeling energy, some can do it at #2.

 

#8 Can be experienced in deep meditation by people who have definitely not reached #7 or 8 in other ways. Sometimes as early on as #4. #9 can pop up with long-term daily practice, but not always having achieved some of the ones before it. I find those who can't do #7 yet, but who are good at achieving altered states for practice can pull it off .

 

#10 you must mean something different by "astral perception" than I'm thinking? Some folks come in with this naturally (I mean the way I mean it) while others get it at #4.

 

I'm still working on #7, it is a goal, one day. Mine haven't been quite in order either lol.

 

Since his is the hermetic forum, could you please talk about what the rainbow body is in hermetic terminology? I have read about it a few times, but do not quite understand the concept. It's gotten me curious. Not that it is something I'm trying to learn or anything, it is still quite interesting .

 

Something interesting about these states or levels, is that I taught kids metaphysics for awhile (part of a treatment program they were doing, and I was authorized, it was pretty awesome actually) and I have to say... most of them could just naturally with barely trying hit most of these!

Hi BaguaKicksAss,

 

I would definitely agree that different aspects can be realized at different levels. Rather than truly being levels, it is more like multidimensional growth and everyone can grow faster in specific aspects.

 

By "astral" in level 10, I really meant that there is a fundamental shift in the nature of perception. One goes from percieving with the "mind" to percieving with the "heart".

 

Regarding the rainbow body, I am not familiar if there is a specific hermetic terminology. In gnostic Christianity, it is sometimes called the body of truth or becoming "One with God".

[idiot_stimpy]

I wonder if there are any difference between the 'Rainbow Body', 'Diamond Body' and 'Body of Light'

[Jeff]

I wonder if there are any difference between the 'Rainbow Body', 'Diamond Body' and 'Body of Light'

 

I think it is very hard to say as the true meanings of the terms have been lost to many traditions. The difference can be found in whether one is talking about the shift (or transition) to a light form or instead the deeper integration into "all that is". One is like being a super character of a video game, the other is being the support for the entire video game.