Gospel of Thomas

[9th]

[Apech]

Because a tender fire could be extinguished. He guarded it with his body and life, and made it blaze by his person and biography.

 

Thank you ... that's brought some clarity for me. I never thought of a tender fire ... excellent.

[traveler]

10) Jesus said, "I have cast fire upon the world, and see, I am

guarding it until it blazes."

 

Cat: He guarded it with his body and life, and made it blaze by his person and biography.

 

Another way to look at this is that all this time the fire of Christianity has been burning, and He is watching over this fire until the Second Coming when the world is burnt and becomes new. Some say that the earth will be physically burnt at His coming, and you could also say that the fire is a spiritual burning.

[Jadespear]

10) Jesus said, "I have cast fire upon the world, and see, I am

guarding it until it blazes."

 

 

Another way to look at this is that all this time the fire of Christianity has been burning, and He is watching over this fire until the Second Coming when the world is burnt and becomes new. Some say that the earth will be physically burnt at His coming, and you could also say that the fire is a spiritual burning.

 

Or Perhaps, he was speaking total nonsense in a metaphorical way. He has done so in other places of the bible.

 

Or perhaps, in this context Jesus is referring to fire in terms of light...light that dispels away the darkness of ignorance and stupidity. "And, see"... meaning "Look, I am still here." Jesus is saying that he will not run away from his enemies, he will stand and defend his teachings until they spread...or until "it blazes". After all when a flame blazes, it spreads.

 

So we could re-translate in a more concrete way like this:

 

"I have brought wisdom and teachings to the world, and look, I am still here and will be until my teachings spread."

 

I think it's important to also note, that Jesus did not write any of his teachings down, he only spoke them as a wandering sage basically. Other people who followed him wrote them down...as the story goes. And the entire Christian religion was made after Jesus died...not during his time on earth. It was made by other people who followed Jesus around and his "12" apostles. So long as people debate about Jesus, we are in essence still acknowledging his existence, his teachings... therefore his spirit is still here, his thoughts are still influencing the world.

[三江源]

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Edited July 8, 2014 by cat

[Jadespear]

Thats a nice theological nonsensical take on things. I guess anyone who buys into Christian theology has to use it's own theology to prove it to themselves .... belief and metaphor to express and explain said created belief and metaphor. Unending nonsense it seems. Just too much misinformation.

[Aetherous]

Thats a nice theological nonsensical take on things. I guess anyone who buys into Christian theology has to use it's own theology to prove it to themselves .... belief and metaphor to express and explain said created belief and metaphor. Unending nonsense it seems. Just too much misinformation.

 

What cat posted is not misinformation.

 

Edited October 19, 2013 by turtle shell

[Protector]

Hey Jade, don't like the thread don't read it

That's what I do to mo pai threads, you can't change many minds here

[traveler]

The fire of Jesus can be any and all of the things described in the preceding posts including "nonsense" if that is how you see it. Personally, I feel the fire.

Edited October 19, 2013 by traveler

[Apech]

Moving on from fire ....

 

11) Jesus said, "This heaven will pass away, and the one above

it will pass away. The dead are not alive, and the living will

not die. In the days when you consumed what is dead, you made it

what is alive. When you come to dwell in the light, what will you

do? On the day when you were one you became two. But when you

become two, what will you do?"

[三江源]

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Edited July 8, 2014 by cat

[Apech]

The last line, idk, what is the context, or.. what comes next?

 

The context is this verse alone as far as I can tell - what comes next does not clarify (go to post no.1 and follow link for whole text).

 

When you were one you became two - presumably means that although we are essentially a unity we 'fell' into dualism. When you are then a 'two' then I guess you work at becoming one again ????

[Apech]

The context is this verse alone as far as I can tell - what comes next does not clarify (go to post no.1 and follow link for whole text).

 

When you were one you became two - presumably means that although we are essentially a unity we 'fell' into dualism. When you are then a 'two' then I guess you work at becoming one again ????

 

Or perhaps its one > two > not-two .... ????

[三江源]

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Edited July 8, 2014 by cat

[Apech]

Maybe it is a question about 'how will you return to One.".. ie. a rhetorical q. about practise method.

 

Yes, or maybe 'what else is there to do?' kind of thing.

[三江源]

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Edited July 8, 2014 by cat

[traveler]

On the day when you were one you became two. But when you

become two, what will you do?"

 

I see everything from a world view. So pardon me if I diverge from strictly Christian concepts for a moment in order to get my point across.

 

There is a trend out there, definitely Eastern stuff (but not exclusively), that we eventually merge into a Nothingness, the wu. Osho says that we can experience bliss which is contact with the Light, which he calls experience. This is shen, fire or spirit. When we step into wu there is a consuming void, which Osho calls non-experience. This is unity, all is One. There are no boundaries of this container called One. It is infinite time and space. Then Osho says there is the last stage, the seventh stage, which we as a planet are now entering, perhaps. This last stage is called Nirvana or Totality. It is not the bliss nor the void; it is everything. You feel at One and you also feel like yourself again, like a real person, an individual. After being One (wu) you emerge as an individual again, you become two, separate and not separate from the rest of Creation.

 

Do you see what I am saying? After the One, then what? The One is not the end. Totality is, and this state is felt as being One, AND Two, and a lot of other things. You don't have to give up the Joy to feel the Peace. But for a time, all there is is Peace, like a healing balm. What does Jesus do? Lead you through this if He is allowed to.

 

Jesus said on the cross, "Why hast thou forsaken me?" And he died, after which he spent some time in the bowels of the earth. The resurrection followed. Here we see the pattern: a time of feeling forsaken and then a sojourn through darkness to emerge back into the Light as a resurrected being. The resurrection is the Totality. Death was His Dark Night of the Soul, or the Nothingness. In Egyptology, the journey of Ra in his boat across the sky follows the same pattern. At night, Ra's boat travels through the under world; at Dawn there is a New Awakening and a healing.

 

This is my take on One becomes Two.

[Apech]

I see everything from a world view. So pardon me if I diverge from strictly Christian concepts for a moment in order to get my point across.

 

There is a trend out there, definitely Eastern stuff (but not exclusively), that we eventually merge into a Nothingness, the wu. Osho says that we can experience bliss which is contact with the Light, which he calls experience. This is shen, fire or spirit. When we step into wu there is a consuming void, which Osho calls non-experience. This is unity, all is One. There are no boundaries of this container called One. It is infinite time and space. Then Osho says there is the last stage, the seventh stage, which we as a planet are now entering, perhaps. This last stage is called Nirvana or Totality. It is not the bliss nor the void; it is everything. You feel at One and you also feel like yourself again, like a real person, an individual. After being One (wu) you emerge as an individual again, you become two, separate and not separate from the rest of Creation.

 

Do you see what I am saying? After the One, then what? The One is not the end. Totality is, and this state is felt as being One, AND Two, and a lot of other things. You don't have to give up the Joy to feel the Peace. But for a time, all there is is Peace, like a healing balm. What does Jesus do? Lead you through this if He is allowed to.

 

Jesus said on the cross, "Why hast thou forsaken me?" And he died, after which he spent some time in the bowels of the earth. The resurrection followed. Here we see the pattern: a time of feeling forsaken and then a sojourn through darkness to emerge back into the Light as a resurrected being. The resurrection is the Totality. Death was His Dark Night of the Soul, or the Nothingness. In Egyptology, the journey of Ra in his boat across the sky follows the same pattern. At night, Ra's boat travels through the under world; at Dawn there is a New Awakening and a healing.

 

This is my take on One becomes Two.

 

Tra la la ... blow the trumpets of joy for truth has been spoken!!!!

[三江源]

.

Edited July 8, 2014 by cat

[Jeff]

11) Jesus said, "This heaven will pass away, and the one above

it will pass away. The dead are not alive, and the living will

not die. In the days when you consumed what is dead, you made it

what is alive. When you come to dwell in the light, what will you

do? On the day when you were one you became two. But when you

become two, what will you do?"

 

In this verse, I really like how well the two questions that Jesus asks go together...

 

"When you come to dwell in the light, what will you do?" ... "But when you become two, what will you do?"

 

What happens in the light, and when does one realize that they are "two"?

[Apech]

11) Jesus said, "This heaven will pass away, and the one above

it will pass away. The dead are not alive, and the living will

not die. In the days when you consumed what is dead, you made it

what is alive. When you come to dwell in the light, what will you

do? On the day when you were one you became two. But when you

become two, what will you do?"

 

In this verse, I really like how well the two questions that Jesus asks go together...

 

"When you come to dwell in the light, what will you do?" ... "But when you become two, what will you do?"

 

What happens in the light, and when does one realize that they are "two"?

 

 

Not sure if that was rhetorical or not but I feel that there is a paradoxical relationship going on here which kind of bounces your mind too and fro (rather koan like).

[Jeff]

Not sure if that was rhetorical or not but I feel that there is a paradoxical relationship going on here which kind of bounces your mind too and fro (rather koan like).

 

Very koan like questions...

 

On the first one... "When you come to dwell in the light, what will you do?" Jesus is obviously talking about the light of God. What do you think happens to "you" in the light of God?

[traveler]

You evolve.

[Apech]

Very koan like questions...

 

On the first one... "When you come to dwell in the light, what will you do?" Jesus is obviously talking about the light of God. What do you think happens to "you" in the light of God?

 

 

If I can answer that in a complicated way I would say 'what would you do?' - you would absorb the light-based conceptual essences which are your own unique key to yourself and who you truly are ... or something like that ...

[Jeff]

If I can answer that in a complicated way I would say 'what would you do?' - you would absorb the light-based conceptual essences which are your own unique key to yourself and who you truly are ... or something like that ...

 

Interesting thought... What is "light-based conceptual essences"?