Gospel of Thomas

[Apech]

Interesting thought... What is "light-based conceptual essences"?

 

 

God's light imparts to its created entities (creatures) each a unique form or essence ... a name if you like ... this is what makes us unique beings and not clones. Or that's how it seems to me anyway. A bit like a fate or destiny ... a message stream which imparts your purpose within the light.

[Jeff]

God's light imparts to its created entities (creatures) each a unique form or essence ... a name if you like ... this is what makes us unique beings and not clones. Or that's how it seems to me anyway. A bit like a fate or destiny ... a message stream which imparts your purpose within the light.

 

So each being is an unique "light form" in creation/existence and when you are in the light, you have the knowledge of (or maybe accept) your role in creation?

[Apech]

So each being is an unique "light form" in creation/existence and when you are in the light, you have the knowledge of (or maybe accept) your role in creation?

 

Yes alone and in communion.

 

Light is information ... literally in - forming ... intention of form(s) ... don't you think? Jeff you are much more a master of light realms than I ... I am a creature of the dark

[Jeff]

Yes alone and in communion.

 

Light is information ... literally in - forming ... intention of form(s) ... don't you think? Jeff you are much more a master of light realms than I ... I am a creature of the dark

 

You sound pretty wise to me...

 

So sort of summing it up... You are saying that when one is in (or has realized) the light of God, they sort of accept the role that God has created for them and get information (or understanding of it all). Maybe even say that they surrender they personal ego to God?

[Apech]

You sound pretty wise to me...

 

So sort of summing it up... You are saying that when one is in (or has realized) the light of God, they sort of accept the role that God has created for them and get information (or understanding of it all). Maybe even say that they surrender they personal ego to God?

 

Sounding wise is not being wise.

 

yes ... the empirical ego is a kind of false-self (based on the lie of separate private purpose) and the light-self is the true self but it is a self in complete dependence (?) on the light of God but with its own unique value and destiny as a light being. Call it a Son of Light perhaps.

[Jeff]

yes ... the empirical ego is a kind of false-self (based on the lie of separate private purpose) and the light-self is the true self but it is a self in complete dependence (?) on the light of God but with its own unique value and destiny as a light being. Call it a Son of Light perhaps.

 

Not call it a "son of God"?

 

John 1: 11-13 (KJV)

 

¹¹ He came unto his own, and his own received him not. ¹² But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: ¹³ Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

[Apech]

Not call it a "son of God"?

 

John 1: 11-13 (KJV)

 

¹¹ He came unto his own, and his own received him not. ¹² But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: ¹³ Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

Hey your good with dem quotes ... sure son of god ...

[9th]

10,000

[Jeff]

Hey your good with dem quotes ... sure son of god ...

 

Thanks. With all of your statements about light, understanding and information being given/transferred... Next thing you know, you are going to trying to tell me that Jesus gives light transmissions...

[9th]

http://ia600807.us.archive.org/18/items/HolyScience/45849064-Sri-Yukteswar-Giri-The-Holy-Science.pdf

[Jeff]

Hi 9th,

 

The above is a common type of Yoga (SRF) based map. How do you see it relating to Christian thought or and descriptions in the Gospel of Thomas ?

[9th]

Hi 9th,

 

The above is a common type of Yoga (SRF) based map. How do you see it relating to Christian thought or and descriptions in the Gospel of Thomas ?

 

Click the link and find out. Its a book about the correlations between the gospels and yoga, using quotes from various scriptures, but mostly the book of John.

 

 

 

And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

 

He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

 

Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour. Father, glorify thy name.

 

Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.

 

The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.

 

Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes. Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.

 

The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man?

 

Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth. While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.

 

 

- Book of John, Ch. 12:23-36

[Apech]

What if all of our destinies are exactly the same. But we just muck it up lifetime after lifetime?

 

Or, if you don't agree with that, perhaps you might say that everyone's potential is ultimately the same? That is, if you're willing to forgive/reconcile karma for more than a few lifetimes.

 

Why would they be? The light/God is infinitely creative no need to create countless identical beings ... anyway it doesn't matter what I think we should proceed with the GoTh.

[Apech]

12) The disciples said to Jesus, "We know that You will depart

from us. Who is to be our leader?"

Jesus said to them, "Wherever you are, you are to go to

James the righteous, for whose sake heaven and earth came into

being."

 

13) Jesus said to His disciples, "Compare me to someone and tell

Me whom I am like."

Simon Peter said to Him, "You are like a righteous angel."

Matthew said to Him, "You are like a wise philosopher."

Thomas said to Him, "Master, my mouth is wholly incapable of

saying whom You are like."

Jesus said, "I am not your master. Because you have drunk,

you have become intoxicated by the bubbling spring which I have

measured out."

And He took him and withdrew and told him three things. When

Thomas returned to his companions, they asked him, "What did

Jesus say to you?"

Thomas said to them, "If I tell you one of the things which

he told me, you will pick up stones and throw them at me; a fire

will come out of the stones and burn you up."

 

 

Two this time cos 12) is a bit straightforward.

[Jeff]

Two this time cos 12) is a bit straightforward.

 

12) The disciples said to Jesus, "We know that You will depart

from us. Who is to be our leader?"

Jesus said to them, "Wherever you are, you are to go to

James the righteous, for whose sake heaven and earth came into

being."

 

I would agree that part of verse 12 is a bit straightforward. The comment about James is probably why the roman hierarchy did not include the gospel of Thomas in the bible.

 

But, what do you think is the meaning of saying that regarding James, "for whose sake heaven and earth came into being"?

Edited October 22, 2013 by Jeff

[Apech]

 

 

12) The disciples said to Jesus, "We know that You will depart

from us. Who is to be our leader?"

Jesus said to them, "Wherever you are, you are to go to

James the righteous, for whose sake heaven and earth came into

being."

 

I would agree that part of verse 12 is a bit straightforward. The comment about James is probably why the roman hierarchy did not include the gospel of Thomas in the bible.

 

But, what do you think is the meaning of saying that regarding James, "for whose sake heaven and earth came into being"?

 

Yes ... good point ... James rather than Peter as the successor. I can only assume that James was the one among the disciples who actually 'made it' ... in other words God created the universe in order to produce enlightened beings and James is one... but that's just a guess really.

[Jeff]

13) Jesus said to His disciples, "Compare me to someone and tell

Me whom I am like."

Simon Peter said to Him, "You are like a righteous angel."

Matthew said to Him, "You are like a wise philosopher."

Thomas said to Him, "Master, my mouth is wholly incapable of

saying whom You are like."

Jesus said, "I am not your master. Because you have drunk,

you have become intoxicated by the bubbling spring which I have

measured out."

And He took him and withdrew and told him three things. When

Thomas returned to his companions, they asked him, "What did

Jesus say to you?"

Thomas said to them, "If I tell you one of the things which

he told me, you will pick up stones and throw them at me; a fire

will come out of the stones and burn you up."

 

To me this verse is about the discipleship. Showing the difference between inner and outer teachings/understandings. It also shows what happens when a true connection/transmission is made... "Because you have drunk, you have become intoxicated by the bubbling spring which I have measured out."

[Apech]

13) Jesus said to His disciples, "Compare me to someone and tell

Me whom I am like."

Simon Peter said to Him, "You are like a righteous angel."

Matthew said to Him, "You are like a wise philosopher."

Thomas said to Him, "Master, my mouth is wholly incapable of

saying whom You are like."

Jesus said, "I am not your master. Because you have drunk,

you have become intoxicated by the bubbling spring which I have

measured out."

And He took him and withdrew and told him three things. When

Thomas returned to his companions, they asked him, "What did

Jesus say to you?"

Thomas said to them, "If I tell you one of the things which

he told me, you will pick up stones and throw them at me; a fire

will come out of the stones and burn you up."

 

To me this verse is about the discipleship. Showing the difference between inner and outer teachings/understandings. It also shows what happens when a true connection/transmission is made... "Because you have drunk, you have become intoxicated by the bubbling spring which I have measured out."

 

Yes, clearly the different disciples took Jesus on different levels ... an angel, a philosopher ... and 'incomparable' ... which presumably earned Thomas a special transmission ... three things ... why three things I wonder ... and those three things would earn him the enmity of the others who in their rage would throw stones at him ... which would then backfire (as in karmic redress) onto the stone throwers.

 

Of course Thomas (as in doubting) gets a bad press in the other gospels ... he was a doubter and needed proof of Christ's wounds and resurrection ... as if that is something bad ... so maybe that's the others throwing metaphorical stones????

[9th]

and those three things would earn him the enmity of the others who in their rage would throw stones at him ... which would then backfire (as in karmic redress) onto the stone throwers.

 

 

That would shed a bit of a different light onto the crucifixion, wouldnt it? Depending on the intent and what was known beforehand, the idea of a "karmakazi" style event isnt outside the realm of possibility. Especially when you think about the "i do not bring peace, i bring a sword" and "cast fire upon the earth" quotes.

Edited October 22, 2013 by 9th

[Apech]

That would shed a bit of a different light onto the crucifixion, wouldnt it? Depending on the intent and what was known beforehand, the idea of a "karmakazi" style event isnt outside the realm of possibility. Especially when you think about the "i do not bring peace, i bring a sword" and "cast fire upon the earth" quotes.

 

 

Not sure what you mean by karmakazi ... do you mean kamakazi? and why would you describe the crucifixion like this?

[9th]

"Karmakazi" is a play on words.

 

Why compare it to the crucifixion? Because of the statement made by Thomas.. "you will pick up stones and throw them at me; a fire will come out of the stones and burn you up." Now, replace "pick up stones and throw them at me" with "pick up a cross and nail me to it", and then you can fill in the rest.

[Apech]

"Karmakazi" is a play on words.

 

Why compare it to the crucifixion? Because of the statement made by Thomas.. "you will pick up stones and throw them at me; a fire will come out of the stones and burn you up." Now, replace "pick up stones and throw them at me" with "pick up a cross and nail me to it", and then you can fill in the rest.

 

 

Ok I get it.

[Apech]

14) Jesus said to them, "If you fast, you will give rise to sin

for yourselves; and if you pray, you will be condemned; and if

you give alms, you will do harm to your spirits. When you go into

any land and walk about in the districts, if they receive you,

eat what they will set before you, and heal the sick among them.

For what goes into your mouth will not defile you, but that which

issues from your mouth - it is that which will defile you."

 

A quiet day on the Gospel front so here's no. 14).

[Jeff]

14) Jesus said to them, "If you fast, you will give rise to sin

for yourselves; and if you pray, you will be condemned; and if

you give alms, you will do harm to your spirits. When you go into

any land and walk about in the districts, if they receive you,

eat what they will set before you, and heal the sick among them.

For what goes into your mouth will not defile you, but that which

issues from your mouth - it is that which will defile you."

 

This one is a classic...

 

It goes to the point of "doing" or the perception of it. If one thinks that they are fasting, praying or donating, they are operating from the mind/ego (not the heart) and that ultimately leads to death. It is Jesus's way of saying that meditation and practices are contrived states of mind and not "it".

 

In talking about receiving and eating, he is describing sharing the "Holy Spirit" with others. If they want the Holy Spirit (receive you), share of it as much as they want and heal them (bring clarity to their obstructions).

 

Finally, what "issues" from your mouth are thoughts. It is thoughts/desires and the mind concept of ego/self which can create the problems.

[9th]

Nice little reference to the dangers of (what chogyam trungpa called) "spiritual materialism" here. People become attached to "spiritual" practices and ideas and end up using them as just another prop for their ego. Instead of becoming more humble, they actually derive further self-importance from their "spirituality".

 

Especially the "what goes into your mouth" part is interesting. Think: pork, shellfish, etc. He is saying kosher is bullshit. In todays terms, you could say "it doesnt matter how much of a vegan you are if you turn around and act like a sanctimonious asshole."