Gospel of Thomas

[Apech]

21) Mary said to Jesus, "Whom are Your disciples like?"

He said, "They are like children who have settled in a field

which is not theirs. When the owners of the field come, they will

say, 'Let us have back our field.' They (will) undress in their

presence in order to let them have back their field and give it

back to them. Therefore I say to you, if the owner of a house

knows that the thief is coming, he will begin his vigil before he

comes and will not let him into his house of his domain to carry

away his goods. You, then, be on your guard against the world.

Arm yourselves with great strength lest the robbers find a way to

come to you, for the difficulty which you expect will (surely)

materialize. Let there be among you a man of understanding. When

the grain ripened, he came quickly with his sickle in his hand

and reaped it. Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear."

[Jeff]

21) Mary said to Jesus, "Whom are Your disciples like?"

He said, "They are like children who have settled in a field

which is not theirs. When the owners of the field come, they will

say, 'Let us have back our field.' They (will) undress in their

presence in order to let them have back their field and give it

back to them. Therefore I say to you, if the owner of a house

knows that the thief is coming, he will begin his vigil before he

comes and will not let him into his house of his domain to carry

away his goods. You, then, be on your guard against the world.

Arm yourselves with great strength lest the robbers find a way to

come to you, for the difficulty which you expect will (surely)

materialize. Let there be among you a man of understanding. When

the grain ripened, he came quickly with his sickle in his hand

and reaped it. Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear."

 

 

To me this one is about thoughts and the mind. We are all components of oneness and at a human level it can be thought of as a shared universal mind. We all play in the field of universal mind. We realize (and the owners come back) when we undress (let go of) all of the things we wear (issues & fears) in universal mind.

 

 

The house is your own mind. Being vigil is maintaining presence in the moment. The robbers are random thoughts that pull us in different directions out of the moment.

 

 

Finally, Jesus is saying that one should find a teacher (man of understanding). When the student is ready (ripened), a true teacher will take them higher.

 

 

Those who pay attention in the moment, will understand.

 

(Edit - iPad format issue)

Edited November 18, 2013 by Jeff

[Apech]

22) Jesus saw infants being suckled. He said to His disciples,

"These infants being suckled are like those who enter the

Kingdom."

They said to Him, "Shall we then, as children, enter the

Kingdom?"

Jesus said to them, "When you make the two one, and when you

make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside,

and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the

female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the

female female; and when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye,

and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and

a likeness in place of a likeness; then will you enter [the

Kingdom]."

 

 

*** Steward message ***

 

Hi, we started off quite well with this but it seems to have turned into a dialogue between me and Jeff. Do people want to carry on? It would be good if those who are interested could reflect on the current verse and then post their thoughts - doesn't matter if they are a bit random as long as they are about the chosen verse. Please feel free to contribute along those lines if you want to carry on with this thread.

 

Thanks,

 

Apech.

 

**** Steward out ****

[Jeff]

I also hope that others add to the discussion.

 

 

22) Jesus saw infants being suckled. He said to His disciples,

"These infants being suckled are like those who enter the

Kingdom."

They said to Him, "Shall we then, as children, enter the

Kingdom?"

Jesus said to them, "When you make the two one, and when you

make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside,

and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the

female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the

female female; and when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye,

and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and

a likeness in place of a likeness; then will you enter [the

Kingdom]."

 

This verse is very deep and profound. It gives some understanding into the more advanced states of Christian Mysticism. It points to the levels beyond the realization of the soul.

 

The description of a suckling child corresponds to complete surrender with all sustenance coming from God (as a child with a mother). The question is asking about greater detail regarding the description of this state.

 

The first level described is when the inside and the outside become the same. In "oneness" one realizes that the outside world is no different than the projections and thoughts of your inside mind. With that realization, one know that the above (heaven) and the below (world) are the same and not to be found outside of you.

 

Jesus then goes on to describe the next level. The original human (Adam) is both male & female. One brings together these two aspects and the associated energies. A male integrates the female energies. A female integrates the male energies.

 

Finally, Jesus is describing moving from the "mind" level and mind transmission to the heart or light transmission. Inner mind (or Astral) seeing is known as the single "eye". So when Jesus says "and when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye", he is saying that you must let go of the 3rd eye images (they are a construct of the mind). Also, in his final description of "and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and a likeness in place of a likeness", he is describing the "integration" that happens in true communion (or light transmission).

 

The "kingdom" of God is primordial and beyond consciousness/mind.

[Cueball]

Hi Apech, this thread is very interesting so thanks to you and Jeff for continuing.

 

I love this bit of the text. This is only one interpretation, so it may or may not add anything to the mix.

 

In the gnostic texts the subtle bodies are often referred to as 'garments'. The male/female emanations in some gnostic texts were termed syzygy. The garment -- or body -- that goes beyond all opposites (upper/lower; inside/outside) is recognized as that which contains even male and female in a single one.

 

Jesus speaks of this body of union several times as the 'solitary' one in GThomas. (Also in the Dialogue of the Savior.) The solitary one is not one who stands alone or elect, but one who has unified syzygy in a body.

 

Next bit I'm not sure... but a 'likeness in place of a likeness' to me reads as being able to manifest in the world of form at will. Fabricating from the higher realms into the physical. Maybe?

 

Beyond unification... the sacrament awaiting the outcome of unifying syzygy in the body is the bridal chamber. ("Many are standing at the door, but it is the solitary who will enter the bridal chamber.") But maybe Jeff can say more about this aspect or if it comes up later.

 

Just my 2c. It's a great section for sure.

 

Edited December 4, 2013 by Cueball

[Apech]

@cueball

 

Thanks for your contribution. syzygy is a great word indeed

 

I have little to add to what you and jeff have said except that clearly it echoes the Emerald Tablet 'as above so below' and so on.

[Apech]

23) Jesus said, "I shall choose you, one out of a thousand, and

two out of ten thousand, and they shall stand as a single one."

[Jeff]

Hi Apech, this thread is very interesting so thanks to you and Jeff for continuing.

 

I love this bit of the text. This is only one interpretation, so it may or may not add anything to the mix.

 

In the gnostic texts the subtle bodies are often referred to as 'garments'. The male/female emanations in some gnostic texts were termed syzygy. The garment -- or body -- that goes beyond all opposites (upper/lower; inside/outside) is recognized as that which contains even male and female in a single one.

 

Jesus speaks of this body of union several times as the 'solitary' one in GThomas. (Also in the Dialogue of the Savior.) The solitary one is not one who stands alone or elect, but one who has unified syzygy in a body.

 

Next bit I'm not sure... but a 'likeness in place of a likeness' to me reads as being able to manifest in the world of form at will. Fabricating from the higher realms into the physical. Maybe?

 

Beyond unification... the sacrament awaiting the outcome of unifying syzygy in the body is the bridal chamber. ("Many are standing at the door, but it is the solitary who will enter the bridal chamber.") But maybe Jeff can say more about this aspect or if it comes up later.

 

Just my 2c. It's a great section for sure.

 

 

Hi Cueball,

 

I think that you raise some very good points in the post above. On likeness in place of likeness, I have found it to relate to the sort of shift of ones awareness. In a light transmission, one overlays ones focus on the other being. It is almost like you merge or slip into to the other form (likeness).

 

On unification and the bridal chamber... The bridal chamber is the deeper unification with Christ and beyond the world (consciousness). One needs to first integrate the male and female sides, because one side sort of operates in the consciousness and the other receives (or operates beyond consciousness) at a primordial depth/level. This is also why many other primordial traditions have the concept of a divine consort. If one does first integrate the two sides, you don't maintain stability as an individual aspect of creation and sort of cease into God/primordial awareness.

[Jeff]

23) Jesus said, "I shall choose you, one out of a thousand, and

two out of ten thousand, and they shall stand as a single one."

 

To me, in this verse, Jesus is describing that not all are ready (or as spiritually advanced), similar to the analogies of seeds landing on the fertile ground or stone. The interesting point for me is the "standing as a single one." Anyone have any thoughts on that?

[Brian]

@cueball

 

Thanks for your contribution. syzygy is a great word indeed

 

I have little to add to what you and jeff have said except that clearly it echoes the Emerald Tablet 'as above so below' and so on.

Syzygy is a very interesting word.

 

Another usage is in astronomy, for the alignment of three (or more) heavenly bodies.

 

In mathematics, it is used to identify a set of elements within a module on a polynomial ring which define an identity-type relationship between generators. The principle is very powerful in the context of linear algebra and is applied in solving large systems of equations. Weigand describes it thus: "Given a finitely generated R-module M (where R is a commutative ring) and a set z1, . . . , zn of generators, a syzygy of M is an element (a1, . . . , an) ∈ Rn for which a1z1 + · · · + anzn = 0."

[Apech]

Syzygy is a very interesting word.

 

Another usage is in astronomy, for the alignment of three (or more) heavenly bodies.

 

In mathematics, it is used to identify a set of elements within a module on a polynomial ring which define an identity-type relationship between generators. The principle is very powerful in the context of linear algebra and is applied in solving large systems of equations. Weigand describes it thus: "Given a finitely generated R-module M (where R is a commutative ring) and a set z1, . . . , zn of generators, a syzygy of M is an element (a1, . . . , an) ∈ Rn for which a1z1 + · · · + anzn = 0."

 

 

yup ..... (I think) ....

[Apech]

23) Jesus said, "I shall choose you, one out of a thousand, and

two out of ten thousand, and they shall stand as a single one."

 

To me, in this verse, Jesus is describing that not all are ready (or as spiritually advanced), similar to the analogies of seeds landing on the fertile ground or stone. The interesting point for me is the "standing as a single one." Anyone have any thoughts on that?

 

 

I am thinking this way ... I agree about the idea all are not ready ... in fact it is quite rare to be ready ... 1/1000 or 2/10,000 ... and its interesting that mathematically that doesn't work ... as it should 1/1000 and 10/10,000 of course but I feel this is just a way of saying 'rare and exceedingly rare' ... like the 10,000 things of Taoism it just means 'a lot', 'many' or even 'all'. And the non-maths of it is saying just cos I say 1/1000 doesn't mean its proportionate ... you are ready or you're not and there is no way to calculate this .....

 

This is also re-emphasised in the 'standing as a single one' ... I think this means that you stand uniquely as your self ready or no. I don't think its saying all ready people are the same (except in their readiness of course) but that perhaps you are ready in your own particular way ... and there is no way of accounting for what that might be. Each persons path is their own even if they may start from the same place and lead to the same place.

 

Something like that

Edited December 6, 2013 by Apech

[Jeff]

Hi Apech,

 

I think that makes a lot of sense. The only thing that I would add is that I think that the 1/1000 and 2/10,000 are implying different levels of advancement. Sort of 1/1000 is an initiate and only a percentage move on to higher levels. I also think that the single one references that we are all "one in Christ".

[Apech]

Hi Apech, I think that makes a lot of sense. The only thing that I would add is that I think that the 1/1000 and 2/10,000 are implying different levels of advancement. Sort of 1/1000 is an initiate and only a percentage move on to higher levels. I also think that the single one references that we are all "one in Christ".

 

 

Hmmm I see what you mean and you may well be right but if they are different levels then can they also be one???

[Jeff]

 

Hmmm I see what you mean and you may well be right but if they are different levels then can they also be one???

 

Ultimately, we are really all one in God, but are there not different levels of "seeing" it. Kind of like the difference of between the realization of an initiate and the realization of a lama/teacher.

[Apech]

Ultimately, we are really all one in God, but are there not different levels of "seeing" it. Kind of like the difference of between the realization of an initiate and the realization of a lama/teacher.

 

P'raps you are right ... but that opens up a whole new debate I think.

[Apech]

24) His disciples said to Him, "Show us the place where You are,

since it is necessary for us to seek it."

He said to them, "Whoever has ears, let him hear. There is

light within a man of light, and he (or "it") lights up the whole

world. If he (or "it") does not shine, he (or "it") is darkness."

 

 

... just had a power cut for a couple of hours so I think this is now appropriate

[Jeff]

P'raps you are right ... but that opens up a whole new debate I think.

 

What would be the whole new debate?

[Apech]

What would be the whole new debate?

 

 

I'll PM you.

[Jeff]

24) His disciples said to Him, "Show us the place where You are,

since it is necessary for us to seek it."

He said to them, "Whoever has ears, let him hear. There is

light within a man of light, and he (or "it") lights up the whole

world. If he (or "it") does not shine, he (or "it") is darkness."

 

 

This is actually one of my favorite verses in the Gospel of Thomas. To me, a "man of light" is one who has realized the primordial light of God. He/she have moved beyond the obstructions (ego) and knows that the light and energy is not stored in them or theirs, but that it "flows through". When allowed to flow through it is "brought into" and shared with the with the whole world. If it does not flow through (or one thinks of it as there own light/energy), then they are still in darkness (ego).

 

 

Also, I would say that a "man of light" feels an almost uncontrollable flow to share the light with others.

 

(Edit - format issue)

Edited December 7, 2013 by Jeff

[Apech]

24) His disciples said to Him, "Show us the place where You are,

since it is necessary for us to seek it."

He said to them, "Whoever has ears, let him hear. There is

light within a man of light, and he (or "it") lights up the whole

world. If he (or "it") does not shine, he (or "it") is darkness."

 

 

This is actually one of my favorite verses in the Gospel of Thomas. To me, a "man of light" is one who has realized the primordial light of God. He/she have moved beyond the obstructions (ego) and knows that the light and energy is not stored in them or theirs, but that it "flows through". When allowed to flow through it is "brought into" and shared with the with the whole world. If it does not flow through (or one thinks of it as there own light/energy), then they are still in darkness (ego).

 

 

Also, I would say that a "man of light" feels an almost uncontrollable flow to share the light with others.

 

(Edit - format issue)

 

Yes. I think this sharing is the basis for a relationship with others and the world based on love. Becoming a light based being (if I can put it like that ) is a significant part of the work.

[Apech]

25) Jesus said, "Love your brother like your soul, guard him

like the pupil of your eye."

 

26) Jesus said, "You see the mote in your brothers eye, but you

do not see the beam in your own eye. When you cast the beam out

of your own eye, then you will see clearly to cast the mote from

your brother's eye."

 

These two go together I think.

[Jeff]

Yes. I think this sharing is the basis for a relationship with others and the world based on love. Becoming a light based being (if I can put it like that ) is a significant part of the work.

 

What does being a "light based being" mean to you?

[Apech]

What does being a "light based being" mean to you?

 

 

Probably a clumsy phrase in itself. A being of light - i.e no longer based or established in the phys bod but a being composed of light and the conceptual essences therein.

[Jeff]

 

Probably a clumsy phrase in itself. A being of light - i.e no longer based or established in the phys bod but a being composed of light and the conceptual essences therein.

 

I think the phrase works. Just wanted to make sure that we were talking about the same concept.