Gospel of Thomas

[Apech]

25) Jesus said, "Love your brother like your soul, guard him

like the pupil of your eye."

 

26) Jesus said, "You see the mote in your brothers eye, but you

do not see the beam in your own eye. When you cast the beam out

of your own eye, then you will see clearly to cast the mote from

your brother's eye."

These two go together I think.

 

 

One of my teachers used to say "all criticism is self criticism" in that whatever upsets you about some one else applies to you also. At first this may be hard to understand or accept but if you look clearly at the characteristics that you object to in others you find that you possess them also. If you didn't then you would be indifferent to their faults. You might see them but they wouldn't bother you.

 

Again this is true because we are all aspects of and partake in the light-field all parts of which reflect the whole (and so on).

[Jeff]

25) Jesus said, "Love your brother like your soul, guard him

like the pupil of your eye."

 

26) Jesus said, "You see the mote in your brothers eye, but you

do not see the beam in your own eye. When you cast the beam out

of your own eye, then you will see clearly to cast the mote from

your brother's eye."

 

One of my teachers used to say "all criticism is self criticism" in that whatever upsets you about some one else applies to you also. At first this may be hard to understand or accept but if you look clearly at the characteristics that you object to in others you find that you possess them also. If you didn't then you would be indifferent to their faults. You might see them but they wouldn't bother you.

 

Again this is true because we are all aspects of and partake in the light-field all parts of which reflect the whole (and so on).

 

Sounds like very good advice to me.

 

I would only add that when Jesus says that you love your brother like your soul, he is saying more than just loving others like yourself. He is reminding us to love others as the highest aspects of ourselves, to see others as they are in God.

[Apech]

27) <Jesus said,> "If you do not fast as regards the world, you

will not find the Kingdom. If you do not observe the Sabbath as a

Sabbath, you will not see the Father."

[Jeff]

27) <Jesus said,> "If you do not fast as regards the world, you

will not find the Kingdom. If you do not observe the Sabbath as a

Sabbath, you will not see the Father."

 

In this passage, I see Jesus talking about our relationship to God while living in the world. Talking about the Sabbath is an important point. In fasting from the world, Jesus is not saying that we should not live our lives and completely pull back from worldly interactions. But, he is saying that we to periodically (fast) and regularly (Sabbath) take a step back, go inside, and connect with God and the deeper aspects of ourselves.

[Cueball]

Hi Cueball,

 

I think that you raise some very good points in the post above. On likeness in place of likeness, I have found it to relate to the sort of shift of ones awareness. In a light transmission, one overlays ones focus on the other being. It is almost like you merge or slip into to the other form (likeness).

 

On unification and the bridal chamber... The bridal chamber is the deeper unification with Christ and beyond the world (consciousness). One needs to first integrate the male and female sides, because one side sort of operates in the consciousness and the other receives (or operates beyond consciousness) at a primordial depth/level. This is also why many other primordial traditions have the concept of a divine consort. If one does first integrate the two sides, you don't maintain stability as an individual aspect of creation and sort of cease into God/primordial awareness.

 

Sorry… bit late. Thanks for sharing Jeff, I read it with interest especially your experience with a light transmission. It does seem like quite a bit of preliminary work has to take place before the bridal chamber.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Cueball

[Cueball]

 

27) <Jesus said,> "If you do not fast as regards the world, you

will not find the Kingdom. If you do not observe the Sabbath as a

Sabbath, you will not see the Father."

 

To me this is along the same lines as what's said in the new testament about 'going into your closet' and shutting the door and praying i.e. withdrawal of the senses… pratyahara in yoga terms or hesychasm in the Christian tradition.

 

But then there's the earlier saying "If you fast, you will bring sin upon yourselves, and if you pray, you will be condemned, and if you give to charity, you will harm your spirits"

 

So, two interpretations, depending on your outlook...

[Apech]

28) Jesus said, "I took my place in the midst of the world, and

I appeared to them in the flesh. I found all of them intoxicated;

I found none of them thirsty. And My soul became afflicted for

the sons of men, because they are blind in their hearts and do

not have sight; for empty they came into the world, and empty too

they seek to leave the world. But for the moment they are

intoxicated. When they shake off their wine, then they will

repent."

 

Back by popular demand.

[chegg]

.

Edited March 14, 2015 by chegg

[Jeff]

 

 

Can someone please give me a clearer definition of the word *repent* taken in the context of the above parable.

 

BTW, I find this thread fascinating, light, deep, joyous ! I wish we had a 'like' button for the whole thread.

 

 

Blessings of Depth

:wub: :wub:

The original Greek word would be better translated as "return", rather than repent.

[Apech]

Can someone please give me a clearer definition of the word *repent* taken in the context of the above parable.

 

BTW, I find this thread fascinating, light, deep, joyous ! I wish we had a 'like' button for the whole thread.

 

 

 

Blessings of Depth

:wub: :wub:

 

 

Glad you like the thread

 

I think this is a very interesting passage. The idea that empty people become intoxicated in the presence of the divine ... rather than repent/returning is important I think. I turn to Jeff to say further on this

[Jeff]

28) Jesus said, "I took my place in the midst of the world, and

I appeared to them in the flesh. I found all of them intoxicated;

I found none of them thirsty. And My soul became afflicted for

the sons of men, because they are blind in their hearts and do

not have sight; for empty they came into the world, and empty too

they seek to leave the world. But for the moment they are

intoxicated. When they shake off their wine, then they will

repent."

 

 

I also like this verse very much as it mirrors the beginning of John...

 

 

He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (John 1:10-14 KJV)

 

 

In the Thomas passage, Jesus is reminding us that he is manifestation of the Word that took physical form. By "intoxicated", he meant that he found that everyone was attached and focused on worldly things (trapped in samsara) and not thirsty for true Knowledge of God.

 

 

Jesus became saddened (afflicted) by what he saw. Making the point that they are "sons of men", rather than the "sons of God" he had come to remind us to be (as described above in the John verses). Being "blind in the heart" means that one has not opened the "inner heart" and hence can not see (have direct knowledge of) God. Also, when a soul comes into the world it is empty (no stuff) and the same is true when we die (leave the world). When we "shake of the wine" and drop the attachments of the (intoxication ) of the world, we will return (repent) to God.

 

 

Best wishes.

 

(Edit - iPad format problems)

Edited January 9, 2014 by Jeff

[Cueball]

I agree that the state of drunkenness in this section refers to being intoxicated with the lower realms and with darkness. Something similar appears in The Book of Thomas the Contender:

 

"Woe to you, captives, for you are bound in caverns! You laugh! In mad laughter you rejoice! You neither realize your perdition, nor do you reflect on your circumstances, nor have you understood that you dwell in darkness and death! On the contrary, you are drunk with the fire and full of bitterness. Your mind is deranged on account of the burning that is in you, and sweet to you are the poison and the blows of your enemies! And the darkness rose for you like the light, for you surrendered your freedom for servitude!"

[Cueball]

... and the Gnostic remedy for getting blind drunk:

 

"And in that moment the luminous Epinoia appeared, and she lifted the veil which lay over his mind. And he became sober from the drunkenness of darkness."

 

(Apocryphon of John)

Edited January 14, 2014 by Cueball

[Jeff]

... and the Gnostic remedy for getting blind drunk:

 

"And in that moment the luminous Epinoia appeared, and she lifted the veil which lay over his mind. And he became sober from the drunkenness of darkness."

 

(Apocryphon of John)

 

Hi Cueball,

 

Very nice quote. Thanks for reminding us that anything that appears (or arises) in the mind is subject to our obscuration (drunkenness).

[Cueball]

I thought you might like that one Jeff!

 

(No need to thank me, thank John and his Apocryphon....)

[9th]

13) ...

Jesus said, "I am not your master. Because you have drunk,

you have become intoxicated by the bubbling spring which I have

measured out."

 

And He took him and withdrew and told him three things. When

Thomas returned to his companions, they asked him, "What did

Jesus say to you?"

 

Thomas said to them, "If I tell you one of the things which

he told me, you will pick up stones and throw them at me; a fire

will come out of the stones and burn you up."

 

 

Shades of shaktipat...

 

 

 

Shaktipat or Śaktipāta (Sanskrit, from shakti - "(psychic) energy" - and pāta, "to fall")^[1] refers in Hinduism to the conferring of spiritual "energy" upon one person by another. Shaktipat can be transmitted with a sacred word or mantra, or by a look, thought or touch – the last usually to the ajna chakra or third eye of the recipient.

 

Saktipat is considered an act of grace (anugraha) on the part of the guru or the divine. Its reception cannot be forced though the recipient must be open to such an influx since it also cannot be imposed by force.^[2] The very consciousness of the god or guru is held to enter into the Self of the disciple, constituting an initiation into the school or the spiritual family (kula) of the guru.^[3] It is held that Shaktipat can be transmitted in person or at a distance, through an object such as a flower or fruit or else by telephone or letter.

 

Barbara Brennan describes shaktipat as the projection of the guru's "aura" on the disciple who thereby acquires the same mental state, hence the importance of the high spiritual level of the guru. The physiological phenomena of rising kundalini then naturally manifest.^[11]

 

Osho commented:

I have not used the method of shaktipat for six years because I felt there were some flaws in it. First, the disciple has to be in a lower state than the master - which I don't like. Nobody is lower here; nobody is higher. The disciple has to be just a receiver. He cannot contribute anything to it. He becomes dependent also, because only when the master touches him does he feel full of energy, full of joy, but not otherwise.

Secondly, the very idea of surrender is basically difficult, and to ask for total surrender is to ask for the impossible. We should think in human terms. We are dealing with human beings, we should not ask something which they cannot do. And when they cannot do something and are condemned, they start feeling guilty that they are not open, that they are not totally surrendered, that there are doubts in their mind.

[12]

 

And this is actually quite relevant if you understand the mechanics behind all this phenomena. That is why the same reference of "intoxication" is used in these seemingly different contexts.

 

It is an indication of the energetics involved. Language surrounding such teachings has always been encoded in this way by necessity - if you have the correct keys for understanding, you will grasp the message on a deeper level. It is not deliberately hidden because of an "elite" status or something of this nature. The knowledge itself only exists at this level of mind - and because it is only receivable by certain configurations of perception, it is only transmittable in the same way.

[Cueball]

Yes it seems to be another case of two different meanings... where 'intoxication' refers to a sobering force of awakening, and in other places to a state of drunkeness and darkness.

 

That Barbara Brennan description seems not quite on the mark to me, and the GThomas passage no.13 also seems to be pointing to something other than shaktipat, or at least as shaktipat is described there. Then there's the question of whether or not transmissions or their equivalents always involve the mechanics of kundalini. But these things are never that clear cut and there are definitely 'shades' of it as you say.

 

The Osho bit I found really interesting, thanks for posting!

[Jeff]

I would agree that the Osho quote is interesting, but would disagree somewhat. In true sharing of presence/communion (or what Osho is calling Shaktipat), one receives what they are able to accept. The greater the surrender, the greater the depth that a master can take one.

 

 

The challenge is in the "receiver" actually letting go of the underlying fears, issues and obstructions. Many just sort want to hang in the bubble of the master and not do the actually letting go of stuff. Also, rather than just being a one way flow, it is always two way. Even teachers/masters uncover obstructions in the sharing.

Edited January 26, 2014 by Jeff

[9th]

The challenge is in the "receiver" actually letting go of the underlying fears, issues and obstructions. Many just sort want to hang in the bubble of the master and not do the actually letting go of stuff. Also, rather than just being a one way flow, it is always two way. Even teachers/masters uncover obstructions in the sharing.

 

The master/slave dynamic is problematic from the very beginning. This is what Osho was referring to. But the idea of "shaktipat" and also "satsang" is extremely common in the east. It is the basis of guru yoga, and bhakti and so forth. In fact, the model of devotion to a divine master is also what Christianity itself adopted during the founding of the church. In the gospel of thomas, we see conflicting comments, i.e. "Jesus said, 'I am not your master...'". and then "Jesus said, 'Come unto me, for my yoke is easy and my lordship is mild...'".

[Jeff]

The master/slave dynamic is problematic from the very beginning. This is what Osho was referring to. But the idea of "shaktipat" and also "satsang" is extremely common in the east. It is the basis of guru yoga, and bhakti and so forth. In fact, the model of devotion to a divine master is also what Christianity itself adopted during the founding of the church. In the gospel of thomas, we see conflicting comments, i.e. "Jesus said, 'I am not your master...'". and then "Jesus said, 'Come unto me, for my yoke is easy and my lordship is mild...'".

 

I would disagree with characterization of it being a master/slave dynamic. A Christ is more like a divine teacher who shares of himself. The surrender dynamic is not about slavery, it is about "letting go".

[dawei]

The original Greek word would be better translated as "return", rather than repent.

 

Return to what?

 

In context: Thirsty...

[Jeff]

Return to what?

 

In context: Thirsty...

 

Return to God (primordial awareness). Also, the thirst is for the light and knowledge of God.

[Jetsun]

Return to what?

 

In context: Thirsty...

 

Return to unity

[9th]

I would disagree with characterization of it being a master/slave dynamic. A Christ is more like a divine teacher who shares of himself. The surrender dynamic is not about slavery, it is about "letting go".

 

You are jumping to conclusions a bit, but that is understandable given the circumstances. I never characterized anything as a master/slave dynamic other than explaining what Osho was referring to in his statement. Devotional practice may or may not have such dynamics, and the devotional form is the model for people who worship the figure of Christ. It is also the same model for many other religions and traditions. It is a common methodology in India called "bhakti".

[Jeff]

You are jumping to conclusions a bit, but that is understandable given the circumstances. I never characterized anything as a master/slave dynamic other than explaining what Osho was referring to in his statement. Devotional practice may or may not have such dynamics, and the devotional form is the model for people who worship the figure of Christ. It is also the same model for many other religions and traditions. It is a common methodology in India called "bhakti".

 

 

I apologize if I have jumped to any conclusion. But, if you join us in the discussion of the Gospel of Thomas, I think you will find that it does not advocate a master/slave dynamic. Additionally, I offer these words from the canonical bible, regarding the point.

 

 

Luke 17: 20-21

20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’[d] For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”

 

 

The words of Jesus advocate inward focus and reflection. Additionally, his words are about teaching everyone to become a "son of God"..

 

 

1 John 1:12-13

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

 

Where, those who pay attention and find the kingdom of God inside them, will...

 

 

Matthew 21:21

21Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

 

Doesn't sound much like a slave to me.