Jadespear Posted June 4, 2015 There are so many mistranslations today.... back in the day, "son" was a word used to describe one who "serves"... hence we can see the actual meaning by the words of Jesus, when he referred to himself as the "son of man" or " son of god".... actually literal meaning " one who serves" all the passages make mystical metaphorical sense when read with the knowledge of how words were used and scribed at the time... * everyone, and everything is in all reality a " son " or " servant of God and of man " when they choose to help one another through any suffering or obstacle and lead them toward what is true. Freewill is an interesting subject. Freewill is half the truth... yes we can choose, but ultimately the immutable laws of creation cannot be overturned, or changed.... it is our freewill that directs our course through the laws of the universe at every level, that creates our karmic destiny, that creates anything and everything that we see, think, feel, experience, and are aware of. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FraterUFA Posted June 4, 2015 There are so many mistranslations today.... back in the day, "son" was a word used to describe one who "serves"... hence we can see the actual meaning by the words of Jesus, when he referred to himself as the "son of man" or " son of god".... actually literal meaning " one who serves" all the passages make mystical metaphorical sense when read with the knowledge of how words were used and scribed at the time... * everyone, and everything is in all reality a " son " or " servant of God and of man " when they choose to help one another through any suffering or obstacle and lead them toward what is true. An esoteric interpretation would go a little differently. Jesus was the son of God because of the descent of God into physical manifestation. He was the son of man because he rose up (evolved) from matter and was exalted above the status of purely material man. The meaning of the two phrases in conjunction are equivalent to the symbolism of the Star of David. UFA Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted June 5, 2015 32. Jesus said, "A city built on a high hill and fortified cannot fall, nor can it be hidden." Thoughts? To me, the city represents the realization of the soul/inner spirit and the high hill implies how it is above or beyond. Fortified means ongoing letting go into God. And it cannot be hidden, because a person/being radiates it... 1 Corinthians 15:44-49 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jadespear Posted June 9, 2015 Pretty sure, that is Jesus just remarking his own perceptive truths to illustrate a point he was trying to make...as he did all the time as seen in the parable stories and the like... not sure of what the passages were before or after, those provide the proper context to understand naturally... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jadespear Posted June 9, 2015 An esoteric interpretation would go a little differently. Jesus was the son of God because of the descent of God into physical manifestation. He was the son of man because he rose up (evolved) from matter and was exalted above the status of purely material man. The meaning of the two phrases in conjunction are equivalent to the symbolism of the Star of David. UFA An "esoteric" interpretation is one defined by our culture as one that is held by a few interested people... it means nothing more than that. Did you mean "esoteric" in that way, or in another more "eternal" way? Anyway you slice it, Jesus was a human being just like you and me, his spirit was his own - just like you and I... we are all "sons and daughters of God" because God is real and has created us in his image. I disagree with how you interpret the "son of man" phrase how does the "son of man" interpret into rising up out material form? The two ideas do not correlate. Once again I will refer back to what is historically understood by many biblical scholars as the correct interpretation of the use of the word "son" as a literal "servant". Replacing "servant" for "son" in both phrases shows that it is correct, because Jesus was saying he is a "servant of God" and a "servant of men".... which if you believe that he existed can be seen as "true" from a certain holistic perspective. He was a servant of God because he worked to enlighten others to the fact of Gods existence, and he was a servant of men because he worked towards alleviating mankinds suffering. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FraterUFA Posted June 9, 2015 Hi Jadespear, An "esoteric" interpretation is one defined by our culture as one that is held by a few interested people... it means nothing more than that. Did you mean "esoteric" in that way, or in another more "eternal" way? I meant it in exactly that way and those people I am referring to are the members of the underground western esoteric current. Anyway you slice it, Jesus was a human being just like you and me, his spirit was his own - just like you and I... we are all "sons and daughters of God" because God is real and has created us in his image. I disagree with how you interpret the "son of man" phrase how does the "son of man" interpret into rising up out material form? The two ideas do not correlate. They don't seem to correlate and for good reason. This concept grazes on the very heart of the first mystery that separates the illumined from the common man. Yes, spirit does comprise an aspect of who we are, you and I. We are all sons and daughters of God. But Jesus realized it in his conscious awareness. Not as a mere theory but as a practical, everyday reality. The phrase, "son of man" can be taken quite literally: we are the sons and daughters of the mundane man, the barely conscious animal who sleeps with his eyes open. Jesus was both: the son of unenlightened man who received the grace of the divine which illumined him: an animal who awakened to the awareness of his own godhood. Once again I will refer back to what is historically understood by many biblical scholars as the correct interpretation of the use of the word "son" as a literal "servant". Replacing "servant" for "son" in both phrases shows that it is correct, because Jesus was saying he is a "servant of God" and a "servant of men".... which if you believe that he existed can be seen as "true" from a certain holistic perspective. He was a servant of God because he worked to enlighten others to the fact of Gods existence, and he was a servant of men because he worked towards alleviating mankinds suffering. Also a very good way of looking at it. UFA Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted June 9, 2015 Pretty sure, that is Jesus just remarking his own perceptive truths to illustrate a point he was trying to make...as he did all the time as seen in the parable stories and the like... not sure of what the passages were before or after, those provide the proper context to understand naturally... I would suggest that you do read it in context. Here is another passage describing the concept... Romans 8:6-17 6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
9th Posted June 12, 2015 THE EARTHLY MINISTRY OF JESUS When Jesus appeared on earth, he performed miracles and great wonders for the salvation of humanity. And since some [walked] in the way of righteousness while others walked in their transgressions, the twelve disciples were called. He began to speak with them about the mysteries beyond the world and what would take place at the end. Often he did not appear to his disciples as himself, but he was found among them as a child. One day he was with his disciples in Judea, and he found them gathered together and seated in pious observance. When he [approached] his disciples, gathered together and seated and offering a prayer of thanksgiving over the bread, [he] laughed. The disciples said to [him], “Master, why are you laughing at [our] prayer of thanksgiving? We have done what is right.” He answered and said to them, “I am not laughing at you. <You> are not doing this because of your own will but because it is through this that your god [will be] praised.” They said, “Master, you are […] the son of our god.” Jesus said to them, “How do you know me? Truly say to you, no generation of the people that are among you will know me.” THE DISCIPLES BECOME ANGRY When his disciples heard this, they started getting angry and infuriated and began blaspheming against him in their hearts. When Jesus observed their lack of [understanding, he said] to them, “Why has this agitation led you to anger? Your god who is within you and […] have provoked you to anger [within] your souls. [Let] any one of you who is [strong enough] among human beings bring out the perfect human and stand before my face.” They all said, “We have the strength.” But their spirits did not dare to stand before [him], except for Judas Iscariot. He was able to stand before him, but he could not look him in the eyes, and he turned his face away. Judas [said] to him, “I know who you are and where you have come from. You are from the immortal realm of Barbelo. And I am not worthy to utter the name of the one who has sent you.” 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted January 19, 2016 Moving on to verse 33... 33. Jesus said, "What you will hear in your ear, in the other ear proclaim from your rooftops. After all, no one lights a lamp and puts it under a basket, nor does one put it in a hidden place. Rather, one puts it on a lampstand so that all who come and go will see its light." Any thoughts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted January 19, 2016 There is a tendency, sometimes, to hide one's light -- to hold back on understandings others might find troubling or that might garner unwanted attention. Sometimes this is motivated by self-protection or from a desire to fit in or from a sense of modesty. I have come to understand that, while those of us who maintain familial obligations may need to tread a bit gently, we should seek to become beacons in the darkness, to share that which we have unforgotten so that others might unforget as well, if they are at the point when/where your gift might be received. Don't guard that light until you find just the right person to share it with; instead, shine your light broadly and those who are ready will see it for what it is (or will see that portion of it they are currently able to see, just as we see that portion we are currently able to see). I have learned that this is, in fact, an exercise in itself -- as we shine, we glow more brightly. 8 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted January 19, 2016 There is a tendency, sometimes, to hide one's light -- to hold back on understandings others might find troubling or that might garner unwanted attention. Sometimes this is motivated by self-protection or from a desire to fit in or from a sense of modesty. I have come to understand that, while those of us who maintain familial obligations may need to tread a bit gently, we should seek to become beacons in the darkness, to share that which we have unforgotten so that others might unforget as well, if they are at the point when/where your gift might be received. Don't guard that light until you find just the right person to share it with; instead, shine your light broadly and those who are ready will see it for what it is (or will see that portion of it they are currently able to see, just as we see that portion we are currently able to see). I have learned that this is, in fact, an exercise in itself -- as we shine, we glow more brightly. Very well said and worth repeating. Thank you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted January 19, 2016 (edited) Very well said and worth repeating. Thank you. I am unforgetting much that I had forgotten... Edited January 19, 2016 by Brian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonesboy Posted January 19, 2016 I think that just about says it all. Thank you for that Brian. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jadespear Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) On ruling the All... Do you believe in the concept of an all powerful Buddha or Taoist "Immortal", or do you see it more like Jetsun when thinking about the nature of existence/consciousness? The definition of a "son of God" is a relevant point as we move forward. p.s. Jetsun - I assume that then you also do not believe in a concept of "free will"? Alert: Jesus was literally speaking about ruling the universe. The entire universe is the "all." That's why he performed all his miracles. When you reach a certain level in meditation, universal things occur according to immutable laws of the universe... Meaning gigantic events of local, regional, national, galactic, and universal magnitudes. Which naturally happens as an outcome of earnest searching. And when these things happen, that are so miraculous to the unseen participant, the first reaction to them is shock. After the shock wears away, one may eventually resolve to follow on in ones evolution as a creator and shaper of the "all". " son of God " means servant of God. The word son was used to mean servant throughout and after the historical biblical time period. That's why Jesus often refers to himself as the "son of man". Edited February 1, 2016 by Jadespear Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonesboy Posted July 3, 2016 (edited) Anyone interested in continuing? 34: Jesus said, "If a blind person leads a blind person, both of them will fall into a hole." Edited July 3, 2016 by Jonesboy 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Sternbach Posted July 4, 2016 Anyone interested in continuing?34: Jesus said, "If a blind person leads a blind person, both of them will fall into a hole." Yes, but in the country of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted July 4, 2016 Anyone interested in continuing?34: Jesus said, "If a blind person leads a blind person, both of them will fall into a hole." Find a true teacher... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonesboy Posted July 4, 2016 What if that teacher cannot see his/her own blind spots? There is always more depth but I think it is talking about a teacher that has realized the light. If it is just talk, just theory it is like the blind leading the blind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted July 4, 2016 What if that teacher cannot see his/her own blind spots? Then it happens as the gospel verse says... Or, I guess you could also say that it was not a very good (or true) teacher. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Sternbach Posted July 4, 2016 Nobody is spotless. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted July 4, 2016 Nobody is spotless. True, but that does not mean that one cannot notice them and let them go as they come up. Spontaneous perfection... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonesboy Posted July 4, 2016 (edited) This next one is a little more difficult. 35. Jesus said, "One can't enter a strong person's house and take it by force without tying his hands. Then one can loot his house." . Edited July 4, 2016 by Jonesboy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Sternbach Posted July 4, 2016 True, but that does not mean that one cannot notice them and let them go as they come up. Sometimes you have got to work through them before you can let them go. Spontaneous perfection... Perfection implies a state beyond which there is no further evolution. There is no perfection. Unless you consider everything perfect the way it is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted July 5, 2016 Sometimes you have got to work through them before you can let them go. Perfection implies a state beyond which there is no further evolution. There is no perfection. Unless you consider everything perfect the way it is. Maybe our concepts/context of perfection are just different. Percieving something as "imperfect" is based on some atrachment, issue or fear. Let go of the atfacments and then things are not good or bad; hence everything is just fine/perfect as it flows. I don't quite get your lack of future change/evolution as a requirement for perfection. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
