Gospel of Thomas

[Jonesboy]

Moving on,

 

 

39. Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so. As for you, be as sly as snakes and as simple as doves."

[dawei]

~~~ Admin Notice ~~~

 

The last few posts were brought to our attention.   

 

This is a topic started by a member with Owner's Permission, so they are able to tidy-up the thread.

 

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carry on

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Apech]

~~~ Admin Notice ~~~

 

The last few posts were brought to our attention.   

 

This is a topic started by a member with Owner's Permission, so they are able to tidy-up the thread.

 

But if trolling comments continue to get reported then staff may take action... 

 

carry on

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

 

Thanks - as I have owners permission I am going to hide all recent comments which have nothing to do with discussing the Gospel of Thomas section by section.

[Apech]

Please do now carry on, thanks.

[Apech]

Moving on,

 

 

39. Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so. As for you, be as sly as snakes and as simple as doves."

 

(Jonesboy you forgot to make it green!)

 

This is about codifying knowledge and deliberate priestly interference in that process which seeks to make knowledge inaccessible to anyone who is not part of the chosen group.  So the use of jargon and imagery which is sometimes deliberately garbled so that 'the many' cannot read it in a way that makes sense.  The 'keys' are the right concepts which allow texts and images to be properly understood and applied.  But then it says 'they have not entered' - so in fact in blocking others they have actually limited themselves.  Sly as snakes and simple as doves is mentioned in the other gospels - I don't know which ones.  It means you have to apply two kinds of wisdom.  Snake wisdom is power tricks learned on the 'street' - as in streetwise and doves refer to the open hearted wisdom of the nature of the holy spirit.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Apech

[Jonesboy]

Hi Apech,

 

My phone won't allow me to change the color.

 

Very nicely said if if I may add to what you are saying.

 

 

plural noun: Pharisees

a member of an ancient Jewish sect, distinguished by strict observance of the traditional and written law, and commonly held to have pretensions to superior sanctity.

 

a self-righteous person; a hypocrite.

 

Mathew 23 :1-9 (KJV)

 

Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

 

For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

 

But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

 

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

 

To me this is all saying look within and don't listen to those who only give you words...

[Jonesboy]

I hope you don't mind me bringing the thread back up Apech.

 

40. Jesus said, "A grapevine has been planted apart from the Father. Since it is not strong, it will be pulled up by its root and will perish."

[Jonesboy]

I hope you don't mind me bringing the thread back up Apech.

 

40. Jesus said, "A grapevine has been planted apart from the Father. Since it is not strong, it will be pulled up by its root and will perish."

I look at this one as to where someone finds the Father. You don't find him in books or outside of oneself. If that is where you are looking the the roots are weak and like the mind can be swayed or pulled and perish.

 

Find the father within and the grapevine will no longer be planted apart from the Father.

[Machin Shin]

Sorry my quoting kung fu is weak now.

I think that this quote 
 Jesus said, "This heaven will pass away, and the one above it will pass away. The dead are not alive, and the living will not die. In the days when you consumed what is dead, you made it what is alive.

pertains to this passage in 1st corinthians 15 

12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

[Machin Shin]

There.

Verse 7 

When you are in the light, what will you do?
On the day when you were one
you became two.
But when you become two, what will you do?

Verse 22 
Yeshua said to them,

When you make the two into one,
and when you make the inner like the outer
and the outer like the inner
and the upper like the lower,
and when you make male and female into a single one,
so that the male will not be male nor the female be female,
when you make eyes in place of an eye,
a hand in place of a hand,
a foot in place of a foot,
an image in place of an image,
then you will enter the kingdom.


Pointing instructions.  This is this. Just get it!   

Edited November 27, 2016 by Machin Shin

[Jeff]

There.

Verse 7 

When you are in the light, what will you do?[/size]On the day when you were one[/size]you became two.[/size]But when you become two, what will you do?[/size]Verse 22 

Yeshua said to them,[/size]

When you make the two into one,[/size]and when you make the inner like the outer[/size]and the outer like the inner[/size]and the upper like the lower,[/size]and when you make male and female into a single one,[/size]so that the male will not be male nor the female be female,[/size]when you make eyes in place of an eye,[/size]a hand in place of a hand,[/size]a foot in place of a foot,[/size]an image in place of an image,[/size]then you will enter the kingdom.

Pointing instructions.  This is this. Just get it!   [/size]

What do you think these quotes are point to? Or specifically mean?

 

Thanks.

[words]

I like the sound play in this:

 

'when you make eyes in place of an eye',

 

because if I say it out loud, I hear, alternatively:

 

(when you make)      I's in place of an I       or     I's in place of an eye      or         eyes in place of an I

 

It would seem my mind likes it in all these forms, because it keeps playing it my head and shuffling meanings.

[Machin Shin]

@Jeff 

Pointing the mind directly at the object of focus, instead of contemplating it and mulling it over.  

[Jonesboy]

Moving on to the next one.

 

41. Jesus said, "Whoever has something in hand will be given more, and whoever has nothing will be deprived of even the little they have."

[Jeff]

I hope you don't mind me bringing the thread back up Apech.40. Jesus said, "A grapevine has been planted apart from the Father. Since it is not strong, it will be pulled up by its root and will perish."

I would point to a similar theme in the earlier verses...

 

10. Jesus said, "I have cast fire upon the world, and look, I'm guarding it until it blazes."

 

32. Jesus said, "A city built on a high hill and fortified cannot fall, nor can it be hidden."

 

34. Jesus said, "If a blind person leads a blind person, both of them will fall into a hole."

[Jeff]

Moving on to the next one.41. Jesus said, "Whoever has something in hand will be given more, and whoever has nothing will be deprived of even the little they have."

Sounds a lot like verse 40 to me, just seen from the opposite perspective...

[Jonesboy]

Sounds a lot like verse 40 to me, just seen from the opposite perspective...

Yes I was thinking the same thing.

[mvingon]

So the serpent meant bodily death, and Elohim meant spiritual death, from the tree of knowledge? I never thought of that, before these posts. Thank you. Both are right, both are wrong, at the same time, after a different manner?

[Jonesboy]

Continuing the thread.

 

42. Jesus said, "Be passersby."

[Brian]

7 minutes ago, Jonesboy said:

Continuing the thread.

 

42. Jesus said, "Be passersby."

Don't dwell on things, don't form strong attachments, don't become static.

[Jonesboy]

Reminds me of the Tibetan saying "Be the sky."

 

[Jonesboy]

Moving on,

 

43. His disciples said to him, "Who are you to say these things to us?" "You don't understand who I am from what I say to you. Rather, you have become like the Judeans, for they love the tree but hate its fruit, or they love the fruit but hate the tree."

[qicat]

12 minutes ago, Jonesboy said:

Moving on,

 

43. His disciples said to him, "Who are you to say these things to us?" "You don't understand who I am from what I say to you. Rather, you have become like the Judeans, for they love the tree but hate its fruit, or they love the fruit but hate the tree."

 

May I ask why do you post it now? ( like last post was half a year ago until yesterday)? 

Just wondering...

[Jonesboy]

It's just the way the thread has gone.

 

Post, get some responses and then it tends to die out.

 

Rinse and repeat.

 

Been thinking of reviving the thread for weeks and decided to go ahead and do it.

[Apech]

1 hour ago, Jonesboy said:

Moving on,

 

43. His disciples said to him, "Who are you to say these things to us?" "You don't understand who I am from what I say to you. Rather, you have become like the Judeans, for they love the tree but hate its fruit, or they love the fruit but hate the tree."

 

I think Jesus is presenting himself here as the fulfilment of the 'law' in this case the law being the pattern of development laid down by divine power from the first time.  So the 'tree' is this lineage of David to which he belongs - that is a lineage of kings (although he is not an earthly king) and the 'fruit' is the result - i.e. the Messiah = Christ = himself.  And he is saying that they don't understand who is he because they don't understand the relationship between him as a being and the lineage he fulfils.  That is they either cling to him as the fruit, or to the lineage/tree of Jewish tradition.  So without being able to reconcile these two natures they cannot fully accept his authority.