Gospel of Thomas

[Fa Xin]

60. He saw a Samaritan carrying a lamb and going to Judea. He said to his disciples, "that person ... around the lamb." They said to him, "So that he may kill it and eat it." He said to them, "He will not eat it while it is alive, but only after he has killed it and it has become a carcass." 

They said, "Otherwise he can't do it." 

He said to them, "So also with you, seek for yourselves a place for rest, or you might become a carcass and be eaten."

 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Fa Xin

[Fa Xin]

Just now, Fa Xin said:

60. He saw a Samaritan carrying a lamb and going to Judea. He said to his disciples, "that person ... around the lamb." They said to him, "So that he may kill it and eat it." He said to them, "He will not eat it while it is alive, but only after he has killed it and it has become a carcass." 

They said, "Otherwise he can't do it." 

He said to them, "So also with you, seek for yourselves a place for rest, or you might become a carcass and be eaten."

 

This verse seems a bit aloof for me, until the last line.

 

It speaks to the "aliveness" and awareness inside that is seperate from the body.  "Place for rest" is your true nature, while the "carcass being eaten" would be what happens if you have attachments to worldly things.

[Fa Xin]

Also, thanks to everyone for sharing... I very much enjoy this thread and GoT discussions.

[TheCLounge]

4 minutes ago, Fa Xin said:

This verse seems a bit aloof for me, until the last line.

 

It speaks to the "aliveness" and awareness inside that is seperate from the body.  "Place for rest" is your true nature, while the "carcass being eaten" would be what happens if you have attachments to worldly things.

I thought the same thing. Flesh and worldly habits. 

 

Resting seems to be a major theme in these scriptures. Like meditation 

[Fa Xin]

12 minutes ago, TheCLounge said:

I thought the same thing. Flesh and worldly habits. 

 

Resting seems to be a major theme in these scriptures. Like meditation 

Yes - the Gospel of Thomas seems to be more similar to eastern teachings than the traditional New Testament gospels. At least in the way it is written - simple, direct teachings, which I personally find easier to understand than the writing style of the NT - even if they're talking about the same things

Edited November 22, 2017 by Fa Xin

[ljazztrumpet]

Anyway, about JC.. He's not the 'lovey-dovey, angelic' type that many people might make him out to be. His vibe comes across pretty good in this GoT. Very hardcore type of love - Very, 'This is a very narrow path and you really have to get your shit together to be on it. No F-ing around!'. So that's why it's a little intimidating for me to try and reconnect with him yet again. After my first session with that lady I mentioned a couple of months ago, I had a dream with JC in it - and this was before I knew she was into Jesus and that she felt he was the main dude/spirit/being working through her. Don't get me wrong, I realize Jesus is a very great spirit/being who is here to help people and to show us that's it's possible to do what he did - because we are exactly like him - We are made of the same exact stuff and are the same exact being - it's just that he's way further evolved. 

 

I don't know what's going to happen from here regarding JC and all that. I am just an average guy with no special gifts but, for whatever reason, I've attracted people into my life over the years who have absolutely tremendous mystical gifts and who I've had a lot of mystical experiences with. So it's anyone's guess what's going to happen next. In Jesus's last lifetime (as a healer in Germany in the 1940's/50's) he recommended people read a book called 'The Life and Teachings of the Masters of the Far East' which I believe is a 5 volume set that was published in the 1920's by Baird Spaulding. It's a work of didactic fiction that continually points out that all the power we seek is right within us and that all the 'spiritual masters' in those books, including JC, are just people like us and they are continually emphasizing that we can do what they do - and to never elevate them, put them up on a pedestal, or anything like that. They are just normal dudes that have evolved further and it's where we're all going. 

[9th]

3 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

60. He saw a Samaritan carrying a lamb and going to Judea. He said to his disciples, "that person ... around the lamb." They said to him, "So that he may kill it and eat it." He said to them, "He will not eat it while it is alive, but only after he has killed it and it has become a carcass." 

They said, "Otherwise he can't do it." 

He said to them, "So also with you, seek for yourselves a place for rest, or you might become a carcass and be eaten."

 

 

Quote

<THEY SAW> a Samaritan carrying a lamb as he went into Judaea.

 

He said to his disciples, "That man is round-about his lamb."

 

They said to him, "So that he can take it home, and slaughter it and have it to eat." 

 

He said to them, "He will not eat it while it is alive, but only after he has slaughtered it and it becomes a dead carcass."

 

They said, "How else can he eat it?"

 

He said to them, "Yall seek for yourselves a place of repose, lest you also become a dead carcass which is then cooked into a hearty stew with vegetables and spices, and devoured with great relish."

 

[Apech]

Guys,

 

This thread is specifically for discussing the meaning of GoT quotes - these are posted in green followed by a discussion.  Please stay on topic!

 

Thanks.

[Cueball]

13 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

60. He saw a Samaritan carrying a lamb and going to Judea. He said to his disciples, "that person ... around the lamb." They said to him, "So that he may kill it and eat it." He said to them, "He will not eat it while it is alive, but only after he has killed it and it has become a carcass." 

They said, "Otherwise he can't do it." 

He said to them, "So also with you, seek for yourselves a place for rest, or you might become a carcass and be eaten."

 

Quote

7) Jesus said, "Blessed is the lion which becomes man when consumed by man; and cursed is the man whom the lion consumes, and the lion becomes man."

 

Commenting on 60 and 7 together:

The lion is the demiurge — it is described across multiple gnostic scriptures as the lion or lion-faced one (its form may have been inherited from Egyptian or hermetic sources) e.g:

 

“And when Pistis Sophia desired to cause the thing that had no spirit to be formed into a likeness and to rule over matter and over all her forces, there appeared for the first time a ruler, out of the waters, lion-like in appearance, androgynous, having great authority within him, and ignorant of whence he had come into being.”

 

— On the Origin of the World

The demiurge can not devour man if he is alive. Only once he has become trapped in corrupted, corporeal life — life which is actually dead — can he then be consumed.

 

Man consuming the lion is a good thing for all — a blessing. At the least though, try to avoid becoming dead in this life.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Cueball

[Jeff]

12 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

60. He saw a Samaritan carrying a lamb and going to Judea. He said to his disciples, "that person ... around the lamb." They said to him, "So that he may kill it and eat it." He said to them, "He will not eat it while it is alive, but only after he has killed it and it has become a carcass." 

They said, "Otherwise he can't do it." 

He said to them, "So also with you, seek for yourselves a place for rest, or you might become a carcass and be eaten."

 

I think that the bible helps with the understanding of this one...

 

1 Corinthians 15:42-49

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.

 

Any thoughts?

[Fa Xin]

4 hours ago, Jeff said:

I think that the bible helps with the understanding of this one...

 

1 Corinthians 15:42-49

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.

 

Any thoughts?

Hmmm. You got me on this one. 

 

The verse seems to indicate that a shift happens... it does seem like the shift is from being a self centered “man of dust” to being the “heavenly man” which would encompass the “light” that Jesus came to bring. Saying that in the old days it was not possible, things were “natural but not spiritual”. Things had to “evolve”, the new wine vs the old wine skins. 

[9th]

Quote

Jesus says: "Men indeed think I have come to bring peace to the world.

But they do not know that I have come to bring the world

discord,

fires, swords, wars.

Indeed, if there are five in a house,

they will become three against two and two against three

father against son and son against father

and they will be lifted up, being solitaries."

 

- Gospel of Thomas, 16

***

Quote

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

 

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

 

He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward. And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.

 

-  Matthew 10:34 - 10:42

 

[Fa Xin]

61. Jesus said, "Two will recline on a couch; one will die, one will live." 

Salome said, "Who are you mister? You have climbed onto my couch and eaten from my table as if you are from someone." 

Jesus said to her, "I am the one who comes from what is whole. I was granted from the things of my Father." 

Salome said, "I am your disciple." 

Jesus replied, "For this reason I say, if one is whole, one will be filled with light, but if one is divided, one will be filled with darkness."

[TheCLounge]

6 minutes ago, Fa Xin said:

61. Jesus said, "Two will recline on a couch; one will die, one will live." 

Salome said, "Who are you mister? You have climbed onto my couch and eaten from my table as if you are from someone." 

Jesus said to her, "I am the one who comes from what is whole. I was granted from the things of my Father." 

Salome said, "I am your disciple." 

Jesus replied, "For this reason I say, if one is whole, one will be filled with light, but if one is divided, one will be filled with darkness."

!!!!!!!!!!!

 

whole = Holy

Edited November 23, 2017 by TheCLounge

[Fa Xin]

On 11/23/2017 at 0:27 PM, Fa Xin said:

61. Jesus said, "Two will recline on a couch; one will die, one will live." 

Salome said, "Who are you mister? You have climbed onto my couch and eaten from my table as if you are from someone." 

Jesus said to her, "I am the one who comes from what is whole. I was granted from the things of my Father." 

Salome said, "I am your disciple." 

Jesus replied, "For this reason I say, if one is whole, one will be filled with light, but if one is divided, one will be filled with darkness."

To me I see this as a uniting of yin and yang, or energetically, male and female.  

 

Anyone want to add anything or should we move on? 

 

hope everyone had a nice holiday. 

[Jeff]

On 11/23/2017 at 11:27 AM, Fa Xin said:

61. Jesus said, "Two will recline on a couch; one will die, one will live." 

Salome said, "Who are you mister? You have climbed onto my couch and eaten from my table as if you are from someone." 

Jesus said to her, "I am the one who comes from what is whole. I was granted from the things of my Father." 

Salome said, "I am your disciple." 

Jesus replied, "For this reason I say, if one is whole, one will be filled with light, but if one is divided, one will be filled with darkness."

 

As the gospels say, there is sort of an earthly body that dies, and within there is a higher “heavenly body” (the one that lives). One who is whole, is one who has found and integrated the heavenly body. When the heavenly body is integrated, it becomes filled with light and radiates into the world.

 

1 Corinthians 15:42-49

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lordfrom heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bearthe image of the heavenly Man.

 

[TheCLounge]

2 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

As the gospels say, there is sort of an earthly body that dies, and within there is a higher “heavenly body” (the one that lives). One who is whole, is one who has found and integrated the heavenly body. When the heavenly body is integrated, it becomes filled with light and radiates into the world.

 

1 Corinthians 15:42-49

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lordfrom heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bearthe image of the heavenly Man.

 

Read my thread on Acknowledgement and tell me what you think.

 

The earthly body is ego based while the heavenly body integrates the essence of all things? No separation, everything is one and whole?

 

Edited November 26, 2017 by TheCLounge

[Jeff]

23 hours ago, TheCLounge said:

Read my thread on Acknowledgement and tell me what you think.

 

The earthly body is ego based while the heavenly body integrates the essence of all things? No separation, everything is one and whole?

 

 

The earthly body does relate to ego and desires, but it is not really the same concept as mordern ego concepts. Additionally, in the teachings of Jesus, it is not that everything is one and whole like concepts of a universal consciousness. It is much more like with Taoism where the One (and whole thing) emerges from the Dao.

 

2. Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

 

The marvel and reigning part is about seeing through/beyond your One.

 

I will take a look at your thread and comment there.

[Fa Xin]

62. Jesus said, "I disclose my mysteries to those [who are worthy] of [my] mysteries. 

 

63 Jesus said, "There was a rich person who had a great deal of money. He said, 'I shall invest my money so that I may sow, reap, plant, and fill my storehouses with produce, that I may lack nothing.' These were the things he was thinking in his heart, but that very night he died. Anyone here with two ears had better listen!"

[TheCLounge]

You can't obtain spiritual rewards with a worldly mindset

 

Those who "try" to get into the kingdom of heaven will fail.

 

This kinda reminds me of the thread I made on Acknowledgement...Trying to obtain spirit through the ego will result in the death of your ego.

 

Death is the only way to ascend. Not a physical death, but a spiritual one.

 

Your works and your deeds will always be null and void and the spiritual world will never be in your reach until you put your flesh to death.

 

The kingdom of heaven is open to those who sit still. They don't work. They don't labor. They don't seek security. They just simply acknowledge...

Edited November 28, 2017 by TheCLounge

[ljazztrumpet]

3 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

62. Jesus said, "I disclose my mysteries to those [who are worthy] of [my] mysteries. 

 

63 Jesus said, "There was a rich person who had a great deal of money. He said, 'I shall invest my money so that I may sow, reap, plant, and fill my storehouses with produce, that I may lack nothing.' These were the things he was thinking in his heart, but that very night he died. Anyone here with two ears had better listen!"

This is a great passage and I feel it is right up there in applicability with the ‘plank in your brother’s eye’ and the prodigal son.

 

I don’t think JC is saying that accumulating material wealth in your life is not advisable. To me, this passage is about fear of death and using some other means to distract yourself and give yourself security against it. When you embrace death as your best friend, and one of the best things that could possibly happen to your being, then you can accumulate material things in the world for your own, and others, enjoyment at the time without being attached to it. 

 

The fear of death seems so unreasonable to me. I’m sure it existed in Jesus’s time as well, but I think the real Christians, the ones who really understood and internalized what JC was saying in his teachings, didn’t have this. From that early time, up to now, there are a number of stories of Christians facing torturous deaths while singing and laughing, apparently feeling no pain. It reminds me of characteristics of the Buddhist monks who self-immolate.

 

Another interesting tidbit. I had studied once with a well-known Christian healer. He was able to effect pretty amazing physical and emotional healings within people. He recounted a story about what you had to do in JC’s time if you wanted to become a Christian. If you expressed the desire to become Christian, you would go to the group of Christians hanging out on the corner and tell them. They would say, ‘Sure, sounds like a good plan. We need to take you down to Billy Bob’s house down the block (Hmmm…his name probably wasn’t ‘Billy Bob’) who is paralyzed and, once you can heal him and get him walking again, you’re in!’ I’ll never forget that because it made so much sense to me. You weren’t trying to join a group and get a ‘label’. This was about elevating your consciousness to the level where it was so high that you would embody JC’s characteristics - so you would also embody that level of peace, love, and wisdom.

 

I feel JC is at a very high level of intensity when he speaks, and is always trying to convey to people that it is all about experiential, practical experience and that all the power is within you - too bad so many people misinterpret his teachings! The vibe I get is that he really wants people to stop suffering and to realize that 'greater things than he shall you do'. After all, we really, ideally, should be evolving beyond those who teach us. 

[ljazztrumpet]

2 hours ago, TheCLounge said:

 

 

Death is the only way to ascend. Not a physical death, but a spiritual one.

 

Your works and your deeds will always be null and void and the spiritual world will never be in your reach until you put your flesh to death.

 

Righto, old chap. And when this happens, there is no longer any concern about physical death. 

[TheCLounge]

On 11/15/2013 at 4:33 AM, Apech said:

Quote

20) The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us what the Kingdom of

Heaven is like."

He said to them, "It is like a mustard seed, the smallest of

all seeds. But when it falls on tilled soil, it produces a great

plant and becomes a shelter for birds of the sky."

The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed. Meaning it is far from what you expect. It is plain and simple..

 

Once realized it becomes a great plant. This is the connection between HEAVEN and EARTH. 

 

Plants and trees are often seen as antennas that connect to the upper and lower worlds.

 

This plant reveals the connection you have with the kingdom of heaven in and outside of you.

 

The birds are our thoughts. Lost in the sky. Looking for refuge. They rest on the tree.

 

Your thoughts are at rest...

[Fa Xin]

10 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

62. Jesus said, "I disclose my mysteries to those [who are worthy] of [my] mysteries. 

When I read this one, I think of being fully submitted and surrendered to What Is - Gods will. To truly let go of ones self. 

 

I also got the feeling of surrendering to Jesus as energetic support - A Yidam or Master  - placing your trust in Him and growing in Him.  

 

Being worthy isnt neccesarily reaching a certain level of attainment or gaining anything, but rather losing ones self as to open up

to God

Edited November 28, 2017 by Fa Xin

[Jeff]

11 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

62. Jesus said, "I disclose my mysteries to those [who are worthy] of [my] mysteries. 

 

Jesus speaks on this point in the gospels...

 

“Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:6‬ ‭KJV

 

Basically, saying... help those who “knock” or truly desire to know, but don’t waste your time with those who don’t.

 

Quote

63 Jesus said, "There was a rich person who had a great deal of money. He said, 'I shall invest my money so that I may sow, reap, plant, and fill my storehouses with produce, that I may lack nothing.' These were the things he was thinking in his heart, but that very night he died. Anyone here with two ears had better listen!"

 

Focusing on worldly things leads to a worldly death. Dust to dust. Focus on the spiritual and find what is within...