Gospel of Thomas

[TheCLounge]

But what defines Wordly things?

 

We've spoken on these things many times. But I love a memory refresher 

[TheCLounge]

On 10/19/2017 at 8:56 AM, Cheshire Cat said:

 

 

"Then he said to them, “But now, whoever has a money-bag should take it, and also a traveling bag. And whoever doesn’t have a sword should sell his robe and buy one. " (Luke 22)

 

 

 

Hebrew Scriptures are esoteric and metaphysical. They deal with spiritual meanings

 

The robe represents your ego or "false self".

 

We are all born naked (truth) and then we pick up and put on attachments (the robe).

 

Do you study tarot? Their system is based on hebrew Kabbalah. One of the suits is the suit of Sword.

 

Swords represent clarity, truth, understanding and communication.

 

Jesus is saying acknowledge your true being and use your sword to express and defend that truth with clarity...

[Jeff]

32 minutes ago, TheCLounge said:

But what defines Wordly things?

 

We've spoken on these things many times. But I love a memory refresher 

 

In the teachings of Jesus, it is anything that does not focus you more on the “kingdom of god”. Sort of like there is earthly stuff which leads to death, and divine stuff which leads to every lasting life.

[Cheshire Cat]

16 minutes ago, TheCLounge said:

Hebrew Scriptures are esoteric and metaphysical. They deal with spiritual meanings

[...]

 

Considering the fact that those so-called "spiritual meanings" are late elaborations of greek philosophies and that they can't be found in the gospels without arbitrarily select passages to be heavily interpreted, I think that I'll just give more credit to the literal meanings...

[ljazztrumpet]

8 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

When I read this one, I think of being fully submitted and surrendered to What Is - Gods will. To truly let go of ones self. 

 

I also got the feeling of surrendering to Jesus as energetic support - A Yidam or Master  - placing your trust in Him and growing in Him.  

 

Being worthy isnt neccesarily reaching a certain level of attainment or gaining anything, but rather losing ones self as to open up

to God

It currently feels like a 'baancing act' to me. I really feel that total surrender is key. At the same time, I think that one needs to approach a master, such as JC, as a friend...a compatriot. What I mean is that a being like that, at that high level of consciousness, is approached with an acknowledgement of his mastery, while we maintain the knowledge that that level of consciousness is absolutely attainable by us. Any previous experience I've had of Jesus is that there is an absolute insistence on total humility - what I would call an 'empowered humility' - and any attempt to view him as above us, putting him up on a pedestal, is met with a great affirmation that this is not the way.

 

In the Gospel of Thomas, as well as other teachings by JC, there is emphasis on practical, experiential implementation of what he is teaching into daily life. Right in the GoT there is the instruction to heal the sick and to love everyone as yourself. From my experience with people at this high level of consciousness, the healing of the sick and the high level of unconditional love go hand in hand. I can't think of a better demonstration of one's level of agape love than the healing of the sick. To me, it's the ultimate 'safeguard' that one is not just fooling themselves, thinking they are embodying these teachings of high consciousness in totality but, in reality, they are still only intellectually understanding it in the mind - even though the intellectual understanding is usually an important step and the beginning of internalizing these types of teachings. 

 

Even with non-dual realizations of oneness and all that, there still is a maintenance of focus of perception where perception is still located within that specific body/mind despite these realizations. But, with someone like Jesus, I get the sense that there is a transcendence that happens where the center of perception being located in the specific body/mind is overcome - and I'm referring to the incarnations where he was alive on earth.

[Fa Xin]

1 hour ago, ljazztrumpet said:

It currently feels like a 'baancing act' to me. I really feel that total surrender is key. At the same time, I think that one needs to approach a master, such as JC, as a friend...a compatriot. What I mean is that a being like that, at that high level of consciousness, is approached with an acknowledgement of his mastery, while we maintain the knowledge that that level of consciousness is absolutely attainable by us. Any previous experience I've had of Jesus is that there is an absolute insistence on total humility - what I would call an 'empowered humility' - and any attempt to view him as above us, putting him up on a pedestal, is met with a great affirmation that this is not the way.

 

In the Gospel of Thomas, as well as other teachings by JC, there is emphasis on practical, experiential implementation of what he is teaching into daily life. Right in the GoT there is the instruction to heal the sick and to love everyone as yourself. From my experience with people at this high level of consciousness, the healing of the sick and the high level of unconditional love go hand in hand. I can't think of a better demonstration of one's level of agape love than the healing of the sick. To me, it's the ultimate 'safeguard' that one is not just fooling themselves, thinking they are embodying these teachings of high consciousness in totality but, in reality, they are still only intellectually understanding it in the mind - even though the intellectual understanding is usually an important step and the beginning of internalizing these types of teachings. 

 

Even with non-dual realizations of oneness and all that, there still is a maintenance of focus of perception where perception is still located within that specific body/mind despite these realizations. But, with someone like Jesus, I get the sense that there is a transcendence that happens where the center of perception being located in the specific body/mind is overcome - and I'm referring to the incarnations where he was alive on earth.

Nicely put! I agree here. 😊

 

Didnt mean surrender like put him on a pedestal at all. Sometimes I don’t share as much detail as I should. 😃

 

 

in my own practice, I approach Jesus as part of myself. The energy translates conceptually as a best friend or older brother. 😊

Edited November 28, 2017 by Fa Xin

[ljazztrumpet]

1 hour ago, Fa Xin said:

Nicely put! I agree here. 😊

 

Didnt mean surrender like put him on a pedestal at all. Sometimes I don’t share as much detail as I should. 😃

 

Thanks man:-) Yeah, I didn’t think you meant it like that, but it made me recall a time in my life when I had ‘pedestal thinking’ - believing in enlightenment, gurus, and all that 'clip-clop'. Also I recall the experiences I’ve had in spiritual healing within a christian belief paradigm. I always noticed that the christians who were really able to effect powerful healings were the ones who really believed JC’s teachings ‘Greater things than me shall you do.’ But the majority of people were thinking more of JC as ‘The Savior’ to be prayed to for help, etc. 

 

1 hour ago, Fa Xin said:

in my own practice, I approach Jesus as part of myself. The energy translates conceptually as a best friend or older brother. 😊

Well, I can't speak for JC but... Well..you know what? What's he gonna do? I will speak for Jesus!

 

He would definitely approve of your approach!

[Fa Xin]

62. Jesus said,

Someone was receiving guests. When he had prepared the dinner, he sent his slave to invite the guests. 2 The slave went to the first and said, "My master invites you." The first replied, 3 "Some merchants owe me money; they are coming to me tonight. I have to go and give them instructions. Please excuse me from dinner."

 

4 The slave went to another and said, "My master has invited you." 5 The second said to the slave, "I have bought a house, and I have been called away for a day. I shall have no time."

 

6 The slave went to another and said, "My master invites you." 7 The third said to the slave, "My friend is to be married, and I am to arrange the banquet. I shall not be able to come. Please excuse me from dinner."

 

8 The slave went to another and said, "My master invites you." 9 The fourth said to the slave, "I have bought an estate, and I am going to collect the rent. I shall not be able to come. Please excuse me."

 

10The slave returned and said to his master, "Those whom you invited to dinner have asked to be excused." 11The master said to his slave, "Go out on the streets and bring back whomever you find to have dinner." 12. Buyers and merchants [will] not enter the places of my Father.

[ljazztrumpet]

1 hour ago, Fa Xin said:

62. Jesus said,

Someone was receiving guests. When he had prepared the dinner, he sent his slave to invite the guests. 2 The slave went to the first and said, "My master invites you." The first replied, 3 "Some merchants owe me money; they are coming to me tonight. I have to go and give them instructions. Please excuse me from dinner."

 

4 The slave went to another and said, "My master has invited you." 5 The second said to the slave, "I have bought a house, and I have been called away for a day. I shall have no time."

 

6 The slave went to another and said, "My master invites you." 7 The third said to the slave, "My friend is to be married, and I am to arrange the banquet. I shall not be able to come. Please excuse me from dinner."

 

8 The slave went to another and said, "My master invites you." 9 The fourth said to the slave, "I have bought an estate, and I am going to collect the rent. I shall not be able to come. Please excuse me."

 

10The slave returned and said to his master, "Those whom you invited to dinner have asked to be excused." 11The master said to his slave, "Go out on the streets and bring back whomever you find to have dinner." 12. Buyers and merchants [will] not enter the places of my Father.

There are those of us who are still able to get caught up in worldly matters, who aren’t forced to seek the kingdom of Heaven within. It’s not the time for these people in their lives, or, perhaps, in their current lifetime, to have to seek the kingdom within. They have much better things to do than to attend some banquet.

 

Then there are those of us that Life has forced to seek the kingdom within. We are the spiritual seekers, the addicts, the poor (if not literally, then metaphorically). We are the ones who are motivated to come to the banquet, and ‘the Master’ knows this and invites us to ’the banquet’. This banquet is where we may find the kingdom of Heaven within. We accept the invitation because we see that everything else that we have used to distract ourselves from such a daunting journey no longer works. So we really have no choice but to come to the banquet. We either attend or suffer - and that’s really no choice at all! 

[rene]

"Those who dream of the banquet, wake to lamentation and sorrow. Those who dream of lamentation and sorrow wake to join the hunt."

ChuangTzu

[Fa Xin]

23 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

62. Jesus said,

Someone was receiving guests. When he had prepared the dinner, he sent his slave to invite the guests. 2 The slave went to the first and said, "My master invites you." The first replied, 3 "Some merchants owe me money; they are coming to me tonight. I have to go and give them instructions. Please excuse me from dinner."

 

4 The slave went to another and said, "My master has invited you." 5 The second said to the slave, "I have bought a house, and I have been called away for a day. I shall have no time."

 

6 The slave went to another and said, "My master invites you." 7 The third said to the slave, "My friend is to be married, and I am to arrange the banquet. I shall not be able to come. Please excuse me from dinner."

 

8 The slave went to another and said, "My master invites you." 9 The fourth said to the slave, "I have bought an estate, and I am going to collect the rent. I shall not be able to come. Please excuse me."

 

10The slave returned and said to his master, "Those whom you invited to dinner have asked to be excused." 11The master said to his slave, "Go out on the streets and bring back whomever you find to have dinner." 12. Buyers and merchants [will] not enter the places of my Father.

I like this one. Reminds me of the line , “I’m too busy to enjoy myself” 😊

[Fa Xin]

65. He said, "A [...] person owned a vineyard and rented it to some farmers, so they could work it and he could collect its crop from them. He sent his slave so the farmers would give him the vineyard's crop. They grabbed him, beat him, and almost killed him, and the slave returned and told his master. His master said, 'Perhaps he didn't know them.' He sent another slave, and the farmers beat that one as well. Then the master sent his son and said, 'Perhaps they'll show my son some respect.' Because the farmers knew that he was the heir to the vineyard, they grabbed him and killed him. Anyone here with two ears had better listen!"

[Jeff]

On 11/29/2017 at 9:45 PM, Fa Xin said:

65. He said, "A [...] person owned a vineyard and rented it to some farmers, so they could work it and he could collect its crop from them. He sent his slave so the farmers would give him the vineyard's crop. They grabbed him, beat him, and almost killed him, and the slave returned and told his master. His master said, 'Perhaps he didn't know them.' He sent another slave, and the farmers beat that one as well. Then the master sent his son and said, 'Perhaps they'll show my son some respect.' Because the farmers knew that he was the heir to the vineyard, they grabbed him and killed him. Anyone here with two ears had better listen!"

 

For me, the vineyard is the world (or life), that which was given to us.  We are the farmers of the vineyard. The slaves that were sent are the past prophets bringing the word of God. I think everyone can guess who the son was...

 

Anyone who can read had better pay attention...  

[ljazztrumpet]

6 hours ago, Jeff said:

 

For me, the vineyard is the world (or life), that which was given to us.  We are the farmers of the vineyard. The slaves that were sent are the past prophets bringing the word of God. I think everyone can guess who the son was...

 

Anyone who can read had better pay attention...  

Hey, nice man! Thanks..makes a lot of sense to me...

[Fa Xin]

6 hours ago, Jeff said:

 

For me, the vineyard is the world (or life), that which was given to us.  We are the farmers of the vineyard. The slaves that were sent are the past prophets bringing the word of God. I think everyone can guess who the son was...

 

Anyone who can read had better pay attention...  

Thank you. That verse was not particularly clear for me until now. 

[Jonesboy]

I think we are up to 66 now.

 

66. Jesus said, "Show me the stone that the builders rejected: that is the keystone."

[Jeff]

50 minutes ago, Jonesboy said:

I think we are up to 66 now.

 

66. Jesus said, "Show me the stone that the builders rejected: that is the keystone."

 

This one can be a little challenging on its own, so I think it is helpful to give some more context from the gospels...

 

Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time. And at the season he sent a servant to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard: but the husbandmen beat him, and sent him away empty. And again he sent another servant: and they beat him also, and entreated him shamefully, and sent him away empty. And again he sent a third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out. Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him. But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours. So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them? He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid. And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner? Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. And the chief priests and the scribes the same hour sought to lay hands on him; and they feared the people: for they perceived that he had spoken this parable against them.

(Luke‬ ‭20‬:‭9-19‬ KJV

[Fa Xin]

67. Jesus said, "Those who know all, but are lacking in themselves, are utterly lacking."

[Fa Xin]

Just now, Fa Xin said:

67. Jesus said, "Those who know all, but are lacking in themselves, are utterly lacking."

 

This one seems to me about "The kingdom of God is within"... you can have all the knowledge of worldly affairs, but if your lacking in being in touch with your inner world, you will be forever wanting more.

[Jonesboy]

68. Jesus said, "Congratulations to you when you are hated and persecuted; and no place will be found, wherever you have been persecuted."

 

Any thoughts?

[Fa Xin]

9 minutes ago, Jonesboy said:

68. Jesus said, "Congratulations to you when you are hated and persecuted; and no place will be found, wherever you have been persecuted."

 

Any thoughts?

Good one. 

 

Not sure he means actually hated and persecuted by people, but maybe he does. 

 

I interpret it like living a spiritual life, you will find yourself at odds with mundane worldly things. 

 

No place to be found ... makes me think of awareness being expanded...having no center or no identification with these mundane worldly places you find yourself in. 

[Jonesboy]

49 minutes ago, Fa Xin said:

Good one. 

 

Not sure he means actually hated and persecuted by people, but maybe he does. 

 

I interpret it like living a spiritual life, you will find yourself at odds with mundane worldly things. 

 

No place to be found ... makes me think of awareness being expanded...having no center or no identification with these mundane worldly places you find yourself in. 

 

I should have added 69 as well.

 

68. Jesus said, "Congratulations to you when you are hated and persecuted; and no place will be found, wherever you have been persecuted."

 

69. Jesus said, "Congratulations to those who have been persecuted in their hearts: they are the ones who have truly come to know the Father.

Congratulations to those who go hungry, so the stomach of the one in want may be filled."

[Fa Xin]

1 minute ago, Jonesboy said:

 

I should have added 69 as well.

 

68. Jesus said, "Congratulations to you when you are hated and persecuted; and no place will be found, wherever you have been persecuted."

 

69. Jesus said, "Congratulations to those who have been persecuted in their hearts: they are the ones who have truly come to know the Father.

Congratulations to those who go hungry, so the stomach of the one in want may be filled."

Ahhhh, thanks. makes more sense now. 

 

The sometimes painful process of having worldly things fall away. The desire for truth- spiritual truth, hungry for inner peace. 

[Fa Xin]

This one seems pretty interesting to me.  I'll leave it for others to interpret.

 

70)  Jesus said, "If you bring forth what is within you, what you
bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is
within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you."

[Jonesboy]

19 hours ago, Jonesboy said:

 

I should have added 69 as well.

 

68. Jesus said, "Congratulations to you when you are hated and persecuted; and no place will be found, wherever you have been persecuted."

 

69. Jesus said, "Congratulations to those who have been persecuted in their hearts: they are the ones who have truly come to know the Father.

Congratulations to those who go hungry, so the stomach of the one in want may be filled."

 

Adding to this one with a couple of verses.

 

Psalm 119:160-162King James Version (KJV) 160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. 161 Princes have persecuted me without a cause: but my heart standeth in awe of thy word.162 I rejoice at thy word, as one that findeth great spoil.

 

............

 

And it came to pass, that, as they went in the way, a certain man said unto him, Lord, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest. And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head. And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God. And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house. And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God. (‭Luke‬ ‭9‬:‭57-62‬ KJV)

 

If one follows the conventions of society, they are unlikely to be persecuted... But they are unlikely to find the the kingdom of God.