Fa Xin Posted March 21, 2018 On 3/20/2018 at 9:13 AM, Jonesboy said: Adding to this one with a couple of verses. Psalm 119:160-162King James Version (KJV) 160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. 161 Princes have persecuted me without a cause: but my heart standeth in awe of thy word.162 I rejoice at thy word, as one that findeth great spoil. ............ And it came to pass, that, as they went in the way, a certain man said unto him, Lord, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest. And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head. And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God. And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house. And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God. (Luke 9:57-62 KJV) If one follows the conventions of society, they are unlikely to be persecuted... But they are unlikely to find the the kingdom of God. Yes... especially the last line in the last quote ... “Having put his hand to plough, and looking back...” Looking back to me represents he is attached to his work and also everything that comes with it. He also doubts, and looks back with uncertainty. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fa Xin Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) On 3/19/2018 at 9:41 PM, Fa Xin said: This one seems pretty interesting to me. I'll leave it for others to interpret. 70) Jesus said, "If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you." This reminds me of Verse 22... Specifically the bolded part (22) Jesus saw infants being suckled. He said to his disciples, "These infants being suckled are like those who enter the kingdom." They said to him, "Shall we then, as children, enter the kingdom?" Jesus said to them, "When you make the two one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the female female; and when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye, and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and a likeness in place of a likeness; then will you enter the kingdom." Kind of like, recognizing the Kingdom within is also without... Edited March 21, 2018 by Fa Xin 2 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Sternbach Posted March 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Fa Xin said: Kind of like, recognizing the Kingdom within is also without... Another way of saying that we are living in an awesome, magnificent Universe (if only we were aware of it). 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonesboy Posted March 21, 2018 On 3/19/2018 at 6:41 PM, Fa Xin said: This one seems pretty interesting to me. I'll leave it for others to interpret. 70) Jesus said, "If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you." I find this fitting: Romans 8:6-14 6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonesboy Posted March 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Michael Sternbach said: Another way of saying that we are living in an awesome, magnificent Universe (if only we were aware of it). Prefer more, you are that magnificent Universe 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cheya Posted March 21, 2018 Comparing the GoT quote and the Romans quote, quickly reminds me why I so much prefer GoT to the Bible... and @ Daemon, in my (very) limited understanding, I imagine that recognizing myself as "The Magnificent Universe" would be leaving my own personal name completely out of it...not there anymore... not hubris so much as transcendence... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kar3n Posted March 21, 2018 ***MOD TEAM NOTICE*** Please keep to the topic, the Gospel of Thomas. If you want to discuss anything other than the topic's intended purpose, please create a new topic or do so in a private message. All posts not on topic will be removed. ********* 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hannes Posted March 21, 2018 *subscribed* (didn't find a subscribe button on this forum) I' currently interpreting the gospel of Thomas and will post some of my remarks after I finished; for they may bring insight. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fa Xin Posted March 23, 2018 (edited) 71) Jesus said, "I shall destroy [this] house, and no one will be able to rebuild it." Thoughts anyone? One of those cheery passages ... Edited March 23, 2018 by Fa Xin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted March 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Fa Xin said: 71) Jesus said, "I shall destroy [this] house, and no one will be able to rebuild it." Thoughts anyone? One of those cheery passages ... Actually, I can be a very beautiful verse. Just need to realize that the “house” is the local body-mind. And no one rebuilding means that Jesus will not get caught up in the issues and fears that build it in the first place. The same point in the gospels... “Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? But he spake of the temple of his body.” John 2:19-21 KJV 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bindi Posted March 23, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Jeff said: Actually, I can be a very beautiful verse. Just need to realize that the “house” is the local body-mind. And no one rebuilding means that Jesus will not get caught up in the issues and fears that build it in the first place. The same point in the gospels... “Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? But he spake of the temple of his body.” John 2:19-21 KJV I think these two verses are saying opposite things, GOT says "I shall destroy this house and no one will be able to rebuild it", whereas John (more or less) says 'You destroy this house and in three days I will rebuild it.' Edited March 23, 2018 by Bindi 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted March 23, 2018 5 hours ago, Bindi said: I think these two verses are saying opposite things, GOT says "I shall destroy this house and no one will be able to rebuild it", whereas John (more or less) says 'You destroy this house and in three days I will rebuild it.' In Christ’s teachings there are two bodies, the earthly (local body-mind) “house” and then the higher (heavenly body) “temple”. The house is death, the temple is resurrection. The following gospel verse explains it pretty well... 1 Corinthians 15:42-49 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lordfrom heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bearthe image of the heavenly Man. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bindi Posted March 23, 2018 24 minutes ago, Jeff said: In Christ’s teachings there are two bodies, the earthly (local body-mind) “house” and then the higher (heavenly body) “temple”. The house is death, the temple is resurrection. This would mean that in John Jesus is saying "Destroy this heavenly body (temple), and in three days I will raise it up" - do you think his body was a higher heavenly body before he died as well as after his resurrection? 24 minutes ago, Jeff said: The following gospel verse explains it pretty well... 1 Corinthians 15:42-49 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lordfrom heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bearthe image of the heavenly Man. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted March 23, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Bindi said: This would mean that in John Jesus is saying "Destroy this heavenly body (temple), and in three days I will raise it up" - do you think his body was a higher heavenly body before he died as well as after his resurrection? The three days relates to the time of his “death” on the cross, to when he rises from the “dead”. His higher heavenly body was “actualized” and so yes there, but he dropped his earthly body, leaving only the higher heavenly body. It is not possible to destroy the heavenly body (only the earthly). Edited March 23, 2018 by Jeff 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bindi Posted March 23, 2018 11 minutes ago, Jeff said: The three days relates to the time of his “death” on the cross, to when he rises from the “dead”. His higher heavenly body was “actualized” and so yes there, but he dropped his earthly body, leaving only the higher heavenly body. It is not possible to destroy the heavenly body (only the earthly). It is debatable whether he dropped his earthly body and left only the higher heavenly body, biblical narrative seems to be firmly on the side of resurrection of his earthly body. For example - Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” 37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” 40 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. 41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” 42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43 and he took it and ate it in their presence. Luke 24:36-43 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fa Xin Posted March 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bindi said: It is debatable whether he dropped his earthly body and left only the higher heavenly body, biblical narrative seems to be firmly on the side of resurrection of his earthly body. For example - Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” 37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” 40 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. 41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” 42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43 and he took it and ate it in their presence. Luke 24:36-43 Very good point. I can only surmise that it is symbolic of something, like the rest of the scriptures tend to be... but maybe not... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonesboy Posted March 23, 2018 Who say's the heavenly body can't be seen or touched? Kinda like Buddha's saying they can create multiple self's or grow as tall as a mountain. Same concept to me. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted March 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, Bindi said: It is debatable whether he dropped his earthly body and left only the higher heavenly body, biblical narrative seems to be firmly on the side of resurrection of his earthly body. For example - Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” 37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” 40 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. 41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” 42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43 and he took it and ate it in their presence. Luke 24:36-43 I think it is pretty clear if you read more broadly in the gospels. He took many “forms” after the resurrection. More like he could manifest any form he wanted, rather than having an earthly body... “Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept. And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not. After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country. And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them. Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.” Mark 16:9-14 KJV He just sort of popped around in different forms and appeared before people. 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bindi Posted March 23, 2018 5 minutes ago, Jeff said: I think it is pretty clear if you read more broadly in the gospels. He took many “forms” after the resurrection. More like he could manifest any form he wanted, rather than having an earthly body... “Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept. And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not. After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country. And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them. Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.” Mark 16:9-14 KJV He just sort of popped around in different forms and appeared before people. Interesting possibility - a higher spiritual body that can appear in different forms including the flesh and blood form that was crucified and apparently hungry. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted March 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, Bindi said: Interesting possibility - a higher spiritual body that can appear in different forms including the flesh and blood form that was crucified and apparently hungry. Yes, the point of being able to directly interact with the manifest world (the eating and it disappearing with it), is a very significant point. It differentiates from other traditions where spiritual follower can only “see” (astral level communication) the recently departed master. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bindi Posted March 23, 2018 30 minutes ago, Jeff said: Yes, the point of being able to directly interact with the manifest world (the eating and it disappearing with it), is a very significant point. It differentiates from other traditions where spiritual follower can only “see” (astral level communication) the recently departed master. Sorry, what does 'it disappearing with it' refer to? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted March 23, 2018 50 minutes ago, Bindi said: Sorry, what does 'it disappearing with it' refer to? Shows it was not just mind level contact (mind transmission). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted March 23, 2018 The building, destruction and 'rebuilding' the temple is a very ancient idea of course. Just thought I would point out that jesus was fulfilling a very long lineage prophecy. 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted March 23, 2018 This video illustrates the idea of the Temple in Genesis 1 - bit long but very good 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted March 23, 2018 The gospels teaching Jesus’ view on the temple... Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 KJV Everyone is a temple unto God in their own right. 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
