Gospel of Thomas

[Fa Xin]

(58) Jesus said, "Blessed is the man who has suffered and found life."

[Jeff]

10 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

(58) Jesus said, "Blessed is the man who has suffered and found life."

 

Paul explains this one in greater detail in Romans...

 

“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:16-19‬ ‭KJV

[Fa Xin]

12 hours ago, Jeff said:

 

Paul explains this one in greater detail in Romans...

 

“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:16-19‬ ‭KJV

Maybe that suffering is a way to wake up to the Kingdom of God ?

[Fa Xin]

(59) Jesus said, "Take heed of the living one while you are alive, lest you die and seek to see him and be unable to do so."

 

You only have this moment...live it to its fullest 😊

Edited October 25, 2017 by Fa Xin

[TheCLounge]

On 9/25/2013 at 9:11 AM, Apech said:

 

Lots to think about here

 

This is probably by far the most important thing Jesus (Yahsuha) has ever said.

 

In Hebrew culture God is not called God. He is called by his name, which is "I AM..."

 

Everything you need to know about life, the meaning of life, and his purpose/law is seen and understood by his name. The Torah says that he wants us to meditate on his name Day and night because it gives us life and power.

 

In fact, the greatest commandment is to "Love I AM with all of your mind (father), heart (Son) and being (Holy Spirit)..."

 

I AM is the awareness and truth of all things. And once we acknowledge his name in US we acknowledge his name in ALL..

 

 

Edited November 16, 2017 by TheCLounge

[TheCLounge]

I believe the early Catholics took out his name and replaced it with "Lord, and God" because they knew how powerful his name was and If known and understood, the people would no longer be bound and afflicted by any authority or government. And clearly the early Catholics didn't want that to happen so they replaced "I AM" with "god and lord" to create a needy, and slave/master mindstate in people..

 

the phrase I AM is so powerful that it fulfills the entire old and new covenant. All of the 10 commandments are summarized and fulfilled by the first one, which is simply..."I AM"

 

 

Edited November 16, 2017 by TheCLounge

[TheCLounge]

On 9/25/2013 at 9:11 AM, Apech said:

 

Lots to think about here

 

 

Jesus had to come to remind people of that. Religion is ego based and keeps people away from their truest self-awareness. Nothing wrong with ego, it serves its purpose but it's supposed to be subservient to our truest being. I'm going to make a thread about the Kabbalah and the 10 commandments soon. Which is really the basic laws of cause and effect..positive and negative...yin and yang

Edited November 16, 2017 by TheCLounge

[TheCLounge]

I'm sorry for replying so many times. I thought the first one didn't go through!

[rene]

25 minutes ago, TheCLounge said:

I'm sorry for replying so many times. I thought the first one didn't go through!

 

You can go back and edit two of them into something smaller if you'd like... such as a period, or a smiley face.

 

Welcome to the forum, TheCLounge.

[ljazztrumpet]

On 10/24/2017 at 10:10 AM, Jeff said:

 

Paul explains this one in greater detail in Romans...

 

“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:16-19‬ ‭KJV

 

On 10/24/2017 at 10:42 PM, Fa Xin said:

Maybe that suffering is a way to wake up to the Kingdom of God ?

Yes, that's the impression I get too. I feel the idea is that the suffering pushes us to 'awaken' - To get rid of all the blocks rooted in fear and ideas of separation. I don't think too many people would disagree with the fact that suffering can trigger immense spiritual growth. 

 

On 10/23/2017 at 11:52 PM, Fa Xin said:

(58) Jesus said, "Blessed is the man who has suffered and found life."

The problem I have with what both Jesus and Paul are saying is that they are basically pointing out that 'the end is justified by the means'. Yes, of course suffering can lead us to a greater good - a greater realization that greatly benefits ourselves and others. This often occurs, but I have a problem with this mechanism since I see it as cruel and sadistic. There must be a better way to raise our consciousness than to do it through suffering! 

[TheCLounge]

1 hour ago, ljazztrumpet said:

 

 

The problem I have with what both Jesus and Paul are saying is that they are basically pointing out that 'the end is justified by the means'. Yes, of course suffering can lead us to a greater good - a greater realization that greatly benefits ourselves and others. This often occurs, but I have a problem with this mechanism since I see it as cruel and sadistic. There must be a better way to raise our consciousness than to do it through suffering! 

We must suffer because of our flesh. This is what bearing your cross means. We all won't suffer in the same way. Our suffering will be determined by the issues we must face. But we all must be "purged" in some kind of way..

[ljazztrumpet]

6 hours ago, TheCLounge said:

We must suffer because of our flesh. This is what bearing your cross means. We all won't suffer in the same way. Our suffering will be determined by the issues we must face. But we all must be "purged" in some kind of way..

I feel I just don't know enough about Life and Existence to use the word 'must' in this case. I believe there must be a better way to be 'purged', to release our 'egoic blocks/illusions'. I just don't know what it is yet, but I'm not going to stop trying to figure it out! 

[Jeff]

7 hours ago, ljazztrumpet said:

 

Yes, that's the impression I get too. I feel the idea is that the suffering pushes us to 'awaken' - To get rid of all the blocks rooted in fear and ideas of separation. I don't think too many people would disagree with the fact that suffering can trigger immense spiritual growth. 

 

The problem I have with what both Jesus and Paul are saying is that they are basically pointing out that 'the end is justified by the means'. Yes, of course suffering can lead us to a greater good - a greater realization that greatly benefits ourselves and others. This often occurs, but I have a problem with this mechanism since I see it as cruel and sadistic. There must be a better way to raise our consciousness than to do it through suffering! 

 

In the descriptions, Jesus more talking about the realization that one is suffering, and more importantly the letting go of the issues and fears that drive the perception of suffering. The “glorified” is the clearing process to find the “heavenly body” that is within us all.

 

1 Corinthians 15:42-49

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lordfrom heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bearthe image of the heavenly Man.

 

The suffering is part of that earthly dust. Clear away the crap (issues and fear) and see the heavenly within...  

 

 

 

[ljazztrumpet]

1 minute ago, Jeff said:

 

In the descriptions, Jesus more talking about the realization that one is suffering, and more importantly the letting go of the issues and fears that drive the perception of suffering. The “glorified” is the clearing process to find the “heavenly body” that is within us all.

 

Oh, right, that makes sense. Thanks.

2 minutes ago, Jeff said:

The suffering is part of that earthly dust. Clear away the crap (issues and fear) and see the heavenly within...  

See my reply to CLounge just above!

[TheCLounge]

5 minutes ago, ljazztrumpet said:

I feel I just don't know enough about Life and Existence to use the word 'must' in this case. I believe there must be a better way to be 'purged', to release our 'egoic blocks/illusions'. I just don't know what it is yet, but I'm not going to stop trying to figure it out! 

Look at the seasons around you

 

When I was 17 I saw a tree and realized that everything you need to know about life can be found in a tree..

 

After our peak (summer) we must fall (autumn) and degenerate.

 

We suffer because we must "let go". 

 

But the lesson is to not resist the suffering, but acknowledge it and realize that a new birth (spring) is coming...

Edited November 21, 2017 by TheCLounge

[TheCLounge]

With every up there is a down.

 

With every mountain there is a valley...

[ljazztrumpet]

1 minute ago, TheCLounge said:

Look at the seasons around you

 

When I was 17 I saw a tree and realized that everything you need to know about life can be found in a tree..

 

After our peak (summer) we must fall (autumn) and degenerate.

 

We suffer because we must "let go". 

 

But the lesson is to not resist the suffering, but acknowledge it and realize that a new birth (spring) is coming...

I do know we can not suffer no matter what happens to us for sure. There are people who go through absolutely horrible circumstances and don't suffer. But it seems to be that most people have to experience tremendous suffering, throughout the course of lifetimes, to get to this point.

[TheCLounge]

Just now, ljazztrumpet said:

I do know we can not suffer no matter what happens to us for sure. There are people who go through absolutely horrible circumstances and don't suffer. But it seems to be that most people have to experience tremendous suffering, throughout the course of lifetimes, to get to this point.

That's the way it is

[Jeff]

6 minutes ago, ljazztrumpet said:

I feel I just don't know enough about Life and Existence to use the word 'must' in this case. I believe there must be a better way to be 'purged', to release our 'egoic blocks/illusions'. I just don't know what it is yet, but I'm not going to stop trying to figure it out! 

 

Jesus taught many better ways than daily suffering, the challenge is that his teachings have been lost in the institutional church framework. Touching on the method here...

 

And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (1 John 1:4-7 KJV)

 

If one connects into the “light”, one has “fellowship” (joint energetic connections) that “cleanseth us from all sin” (clears out all of the issues and fears). Basically, oneness in Christ is like a joint purification network/loop when one resides in the light.

 

[ljazztrumpet]

16 minutes ago, TheCLounge said:

That's the way it is

My own conscience won't let me accept that. I feel like I can find another way. If I find out anything really fantastic about this in this life, I will share with you guys. 

[ljazztrumpet]

14 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

Jesus taught many better ways than daily suffering, the challenge is that his teachings have been lost in the institutional church framework. Touching on the method here...

 

And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (1 John 1:4-7 KJV)

 

If one connects into the “light”, one has “fellowship” (joint energetic connections) that “cleanseth us from all sin” (clears out all of the issues and fears). Basically, oneness in Christ is like a joint purification network/loop when one resides in the light.

 

That's a little too esoteric for me to keep in mind through my day and activities. Keeping in mind to send love out to everyone throughout my day is much more practical for me, and I think it's accomplishing the same purpose. I think enough Love for everyone/everything can dissolve the illusions of separation and 'lead to' the realization of oneness. All I can say right now is that this practice is working for me better than anything else I've tried. 

[TheCLounge]

2 minutes ago, ljazztrumpet said:

My own conscience won't let me accept that. I feel like I can find another way. If I find out anything really fantastic about this in this life, I will share with you guys. 

The reason why people suffer is because they choose to hold onto things that must be let go. Their suffering will cease once they learn to surrender.

 

Theyre suffering at their own hands not because of some external force

[ljazztrumpet]

14 minutes ago, TheCLounge said:

The reason why people suffer is because they choose to hold onto things that must be let go. Their suffering will cease once they learn to surrender.

I don't think we choose - We are products of our conditioning and, although it seems like every moment I'm choosing, really, there is no free will choice. There's no way I can maintain this idea in my active life, so I go around feeling like I'm always choosing.

 

18 minutes ago, TheCLounge said:

Theyre suffering at their own hands not because of some external force

But there was a 'start' to all this - Humans evolved on the earth (maybe, but for the sake of simplicity in this thread, I'll say this) So, whatever created humans is responsible for the suffering of humans. In one sense it could be said that the creator is 'us', since there is no separation in reality but, from a practical 'here and now' stance, where we perceive ourselves to be separated beings, there is a creation, incarnation, souls, lives that go through suffering, etc. 

[Jeff]

6 minutes ago, ljazztrumpet said:

That's a little too esoteric for me to keep in mind through my day and activities. Keeping in mind to send love out to everyone throughout my day is much more practical for me, and I think it's accomplishing the same purpose. I think enough Love for everyone/everything can dissolve the illusions of separation and 'lead to' the realization of oneness. All I can say right now is that this practice is working for me better than anything else I've tried. 

 

Sending love to others sounds like a good practice, but hard to realize oneness when there are others to send stuff to. The words that I posted may sound esoteric because the true meanings have mostly been lost, but actually they are also very practical to apply. Here are a few excellent verses giving details, and I will add my translation for fun...

 

John 5:53-58

 53Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

 

 53Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 

The flesh is energy, blood is Spirit/clarity. Unless you find a realized teacher and share presence with him/her, you are unlikely to find the light.

 

54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Connect into me and access the light and you have the basis that you need.

 

55For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 

For I/Jesus provides a human level channel to the light.

 

56He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 

When connected with an open heart (and trust like a child), oneness is established.

 

57As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 

And since I reside in the light, though oneness with me, you have access to the light.

 

58This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

And this light is not the old food (or teachings) from the Old Testament, but the truth that will lead you to your inherent heavenly body.

 

 

[ljazztrumpet]

3 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

Sending love to others sounds like a good practice, but hard to realize oneness when there are others to send stuff to. The words that I posted may sound esoteric because the true meanings have mostly been lost, but actually they are also very practical to apply. Here are a few excellent verses giving details, and I will add my translation for fun...

 

John 5:53-58

 53Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

 

 53Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 

The flesh is energy, blood is Spirit/clarity. Unless you find a realized teacher and share presence with him/her, you are unlikely to find the light.

 

54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Connect into me and access the light and you have the basis that you need.

 

55For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 

For I/Jesus provides a human level channel to the light.

 

56He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 

When connected with an open heart (and trust like a child), oneness is established.

 

57As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 

And since I reside in the light, though oneness with me, you have access to the light.

 

58This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

And this light is not the old food (or teachings) from the Old Testament, but the truth that will lead you to your inherent heavenly body.

 

 

Ive had quite a number of mystical experiences with JC.. One lasted for over a year where he taught my friend and myself just about every day.. So I have connected with a 'realized teacher' and, perhaps, this is how I've gotten as far as I have so far. 

 

But there is another person I am currently working with that understands a great deal about all of this and was able to heal herself remarkably and help heal other people. She also talks to me about connecting with Jesus..Oh in fact she just texted me and I am calling her..Will write more before I leave if I have time! Thanks for all the good sharing guys!