Veganism prevents taoist or tantric cultivation

[nickyro]

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Edited September 30, 2013 by nickyro

[Iskote]

At least some quanzhen taoists are vegetarian and they practice internal cultivation (jing qi shen). Also shaolin monks are vegetarian, and traditionally besides external martial arts they also practiced internal cultivation. It would seem the that being vegan is not a barrier to internal cultivation.

 

 

 

 

[baiqi]

BULLSHIT!

 

Since when meat does creates jing?

 

You don't need it, period.

[Flolfolil]

...

Edited March 6, 2015 by Flolfolil

[Marblehead]

imo bliss is a hindrance

But it is still nice.

[nickyro]

Baiqi I knew I would create such a violent reaction with this post because veganism in spiritual circles is close to indoctrination.

 

 

"Since when meat does creates jing? "

If we define jing as the ability to restore stamina very quickly after ejaculation, the ability to not develop illness, the ability to attract opposite sex just by doing nothing, the general willpower or wellbeing that makes you crave for physical activity or sport then meat is number one.

I dont know if drewhemple is a reference in the community but there are a few posts saying:

-"Yes eat meat will increase the jing but you have to make sure you are converting the jing to chi energy before you go to sleep - otherwise the jing energy will just deconvert into sex fluid at night."

-"But I was still getting hit on strongly and if I ate too much meat then I had stronger jing electrochemical energy and this created even more sex fluid. "

 

Maybe there are different kinds of cultivation or goals in the spiritual path, maybe something is better than bliss or ecstasy and silence and some of you can't share it with us because it makes no sens into our words, something more mystical than that BUT the path I am talking about is really easier with meat.

Edited September 23, 2013 by nickyro

[Marblehead]

Maybe there are different kinds of cultivation or goals in the spiritual path, maybe something is better than bliss or ecstasy and silence and some of you can't share it with us because it makes no sens into our words, something more mystical than that BUT the path Iam talking about is really easier with meat.

Okay. The "like" was for this part of your post.

[mjjbecker]

Some qigong/Chinese medicine doctors believe eating meat is important for jing. I met one here in China who consumed red meat and beer and swore by it. He seemed to be quite successful in his practice of treating people. Can't speak for the spiritual!

 

On the flip side, I understand Hu Yao Zhen was vegetarian.

 

My own teachers did/do eat meat from my experience.

 

I've been told not to eat the flesh of warm-blooded animals, so red meat would be out, but fish and poultry are

OK.

[Aetherous]

nickyro...try some really fresh sashimi. Get it the day it arrives, at the best sushi place in your town. You will love the effect.

[Marblehead]

I've been told not to eat the flesh of warm-blooded animals, so red meat would be out, but fish and poultry are

OK.

That is my understanding as well especially for older folks. And i have lived by this for the past ten years or more.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Ever seen the documentary amongst white clouds? There's a heapload of Daoists and Buddhists in the mountains who go there to cultivate, who would disagree (or they suck at trapping, but I'm guessing the first option) .

[Tom Lin]

Dude did you eat any fats at all?

 

Nuts and Seeds : Walnuts, coconut, sunflower seeds, pistachios, cashews, almonds etc. etc.

 

Beans: Pinto, kidney, black, navy etc. etc.

 

Avocados????

 

The zinc is what nourishes your testicles and thats essentially where the "jing" energy resides. So maybe you should have eaten more of natures fatty foods (which are by the way the healthy fats, mono and polyunsaturated fats)

 

 

 

I eat copious amounts of nuts everyday and feel very vital in relevance to my libido. The raw vegan diet works beautifully with my daily meditations.

[de_paradise]

Thanks for posting your personal observations nickyro, it's quite interesting to see what other people are doing. I think another person who is in a different stage of development may or may not find meat to be important, or to attain the same type of bliss by sexual practice, but given that meat is well-known to heighten sexual energy, it follows that it can heighten the bliss of a cultivator. And so that is a valuable observation for people who can use co-arising of bliss and mental stability to help them cultivate. To me, meat and sex have been off the table for so many years, but a lighter, more energetic bliss can come with heart activation.

[silent thunder]

Thanks for sharing your experience, knowing it would be unpopular.

All paths stem from and return to Source.

[nickyro]

Ever seen the documentary amongst white clouds? There's a heapload of Daoists and Buddhists in the mountains who go there to cultivate, who would disagree (or they suck at trapping, but I'm guessing the first option) .

 

Yes I do believe if you exile yourself from society, live in a cave or a monastery, don't move to much, and eat by the mean of charity then maybe Veganism provides enough Jing and then it may be a superior diet.

There is no consensus about diet and this is a problem because we all want the best:

-Ramana Maharshi was vegetarian and says it is absolutely necessary to cultivate a sattvic mind

-Buddha, Ramakrishna and Vivekananda ate meat.

-Modern teachers like Chia or Yogani, besides avoiding rajasic foods, they don't ask to totally avoid meat/fish.

 

Dude did you eat any fats at all?

 

Nuts and Seeds : Walnuts, coconut, sunflower seeds, pistachios, cashews, almonds etc. etc.

 

Beans: Pinto, kidney, black, navy etc. etc.

 

Avocados????

 

The zinc is what nourishes your testicles and thats essentially where the "jing" energy resides. So maybe you should have eaten more of natures fatty foods (which are by the way the healthy fats, mono and polyunsaturated fats)

 

 

 

I eat copious amounts of nuts everyday and feel very vital in relevance to my libido. The raw vegan diet works beautifully with my daily meditations.

 

Yes, as I said I was serious with my diet: I ate a lot of nuts/almonds, fresh dairy products everyday, beans for proteins, avocados yes, fruits etc... I didn't lose any weight.

 

 

Thanks for posting your personal observations nickyro, it's quite interesting to see what other people are doing. I think another person who is in a different stage of development may or may not find meat to be important, or to attain the same type of bliss by sexual practice, but given that meat is well-known to heighten sexual energy, it follows that it can heighten the bliss of a cultivator. And so that is a valuable observation for people who can use co-arising of bliss and mental stability to help them cultivate. To me, meat and sex have been off the table for so many years, but a lighter, more energetic bliss can come with heart activation.

 

Thank you for your advanced advice. Stage of development may as well explain the lack of a consensus on this matter.

I don't know what level people of Tao Bums have reached but I am talking about common exercises we read about in books:

"Backward flowing method" "MCO" or "Spinal breathing pranayama" or "Middle Pillar", I think their goal is the same,they want your sexual energy to ascend and to be within reach of higher centers' silence .

 

I think extinction of sexual energy centers should not be mistaken for sublimation.

Absence of sexual energy and sexual urges produced by vegetarianism doesn't mean one succeeded in sublimation, it means you have no gasoline to begin with and thus it is a major fail at the very beginning of the cultivation process.

 

I think veganism or Fasting do share a very important role in the path: they both enhance sublimation of Jing you PREVIOUSLY gained by other means. Maybe this diet should be considered as a singular technique more than a whole lifestyle and philosophy.

Edited September 24, 2013 by nickyro

[mjjbecker]

Your path to follow at the end of the day. That little fact is all too often forgotten in TTB thread equivalents of the Holy Inquisition. We're all tromping along our own paths at our own paces. To those who insist on trespassing on my own merry jaunt, I say:

 

'Git orf moy laaaand!'

Feel free to pass a friendly word over the fence in genial conversation, but try to extend your boundaries into mine, and Mr Greener (of Birmingham) will feel obliged to intercede.

 

I once bought a book claiming to contain recipes from the Ming and Qing imperial archives. The inclusion of MSG in some recipes raised some suspicions, (the damn stuff is sold and used like table salt here), but there was no shortage of pork dishes, and that did not.

 

Supermarket tomorrow and Friday to get stocked-up before the impending weekend rush, as the hoards get ready for the national holiday. Belly pork will be in the shopping bag.

 

[suninmyeyes]

Ah.

Edited September 24, 2013 by suninmyeyes

[liminal_luke]

When it comes to discussing the ideal diet, whether for cultivation or just general wellbeing, things aren't nearly so simple as the ideologues, carniverous and otherwise, would have us believe. Too often we forget to ask key questions: for whom, under what conditions. While I myself strongly advocate for the virtues of a bacon cheeseburger (sans wheat bun, sadly), healthy eating is not a one-size-fits-all affair.

 

Liminal

[C T]

Belly pork will be in the shopping bag.

Nicest cut of meat for roasting, especially if the skin can be done just right so the crackling effect does not break a tooth, or, a healthier alternative is to fusslessly boil it simply with red dates & dried vegetables, the kind you would see everywhere in China. Just for myself, i normally would add an air-dried whiplash squid (also commonly found in all good Asian stores) into the mix to give the broth a totally aromatic and earthy fragrance. Once the belly is almost soft, i would scoop it out of the broth and slice it thinly then dip into a good quality soya sauce whence it shall disappear to where i know not, never again to be found. If i was feeling adventurous on a particular cold autumn evening, i would slice a clove of fresh garlic and a couple of bird's eye chilies into the soya sauce. Mmm... divine.

[mjjbecker]

Nicest cut of meat for roasting, especially if the skin can be done just right so the crackling effect does not break a tooth, or, a healthier alternative is to fusslessly boil it simply with red dates & dried vegetables, the kind you would see everywhere in China. Just for myself, i normally would add an air-dried whiplash squid (also commonly found in all good Asian stores) into the mix to give the broth a totally aromatic and earthy fragrance. Once the belly is almost soft, i would scoop it out of the broth and slice it thinly then dip into a good quality soya sauce whence it shall disappear to where i know not, never again to be found. If i was feeling adventurous on a particular cold autumn evening, i would slice a clove of fresh garlic and a couple of bird's eye chilies into the soya sauce. Mmm... divine.

 

Delightful!

 

Being a touch lazy, unless cooking for guests, a simple roasting until the crackling is done to perfection and a dash of pepper for me. A friend's father-in-law, born and raised in Hong Kong, cooks roast belly pork to a standard that will guarantee him a place at any dining table in the heavens! He wasn't a chef by trade, but I have never encountered finer Chinese cuisine.

 

I did make the local brazed beef and potatoes for the family over Christmas past, and it went down very well:

 

http://www.food.com/recipe/chinese-braised-beef-and-potato-stew-446866

 

I must say though, the ginger and star anise are definitely NOT optional, despite what the poster of the recipe says!

[de_paradise]

Nickyro, what is your normal procedure for sexual practice? A certain amount of time doing the in and out with your consort, non-ejaculation, then a certain amount to time in stilling your mind?

[nickyro]

Nickyro, what is your normal procedure for sexual practice? A certain amount of time doing the in and out with your consort, non-ejaculation, then a certain amount to time in stilling your mind?

 

Yes, holdback into stillness. And I prefer standing up positions, I think it promotes ascendance of sexual energy, (same reason we meditate in full lotus, or tantric practitioners use Yab Yum.) And other techniques like mulabandha, or root/penis to ajna on the inhalation.

Recently I found the "abdominal lock" to have a more important role than I thought months ago, maybe my body is changing.

Edited September 25, 2013 by nickyro

[C T]

Delightful!

 

Being a touch lazy, unless cooking for guests, a simple roasting until the crackling is done to perfection and a dash of pepper for me. A friend's father-in-law, born and raised in Hong Kong, cooks roast belly pork to a standard that will guarantee him a place at any dining table in the heavens! He wasn't a chef by trade, but I have never encountered finer Chinese cuisine.

 

I did make the local brazed beef and potatoes for the family over Christmas past, and it went down very well:

 

http://www.food.com/recipe/chinese-braised-beef-and-potato-stew-446866

 

I must say though, the ginger and star anise are definitely NOT optional, despite what the poster of the recipe says!

Sounds so good, Becker!

 

Perhaps this Christmas you might like to try an alternative braising recipe...

 

http://eddyskitchen.wordpress.com/2013/02/09/braised-beef-brisket-and-tendon-%E7%82%86%E7%89%9B%E7%AD%8B%E8%85%A9/

 

 

(OP... really sorry to go off-topic, but there was a bit of talk about meat and such, which distracted me somehow. )

[mjjbecker]

Sounds so good, Becker!

 

Perhaps this Christmas you might like to try an alternative braising recipe...

 

http://eddyskitchen.wordpress.com/2013/02/09/braised-beef-brisket-and-tendon-%E7%82%86%E7%89%9B%E7%AD%8B%E8%85%A9/

 

 

(OP... really sorry to go off-topic, but there was a bit of talk about meat and such, which distracted me somehow. )

 

Oh yes. If you haven't tried that Chinese braised beef I can definitely recommend it. I've encountered it several times over the years here and always enjoyed it. Some of the local flat bread and vegetables of choice go very nicely with it.

 

Thank you for the recipe-I shall give it a go!

 

Yes, apologies to the op for any thread drift.

[林愛偉]

this has to be the funniest thing I've read...ever...