How does form arise out of emptiness?

[dawei]

but ultimately it doesn't exist independently therefore form is emptiness.

 

But why emptiness is form I don't understand,

 

It seems you answered the second issue with the first; it is ultimately not independent (from form).

 

Void, Emptiness, Nothing are not really absence of everything, as others have said, but it seems to be to rather be what is it absent of? It is absent of our ability to perceive the potential emergence laying dormant in a kind of incubation. It is interesting to note the early Han period explanations use the image of the void as an embryo.

 

But a natural example of our inability to perceive is similar to looking at air and not seeing the moisture it contains which will eventual rain down on us. For that fact, we don't see the 78% nitrogen which makes up most of air.

 

I don't accept being from non-being but rather they are co-mingled like potential/kinetic energy. Simultaneously both/and. This is the point of the oldest text of Laozi chapter 40 which makes the most sense. Later versions and interpretations just screw up the meaning with ideas of before/after/time... man-made problems in perception of the pregnant void.

[Jeff]

Hi Jeff,

 

Tao is Buddhist emptiness is a new thing for me. Any resources to verify this allusion?

 

Also, how do you explain emergence of phenomena as Buddha or buddhamind?

 

What, in your view, is buddhamind?

Hi C T,

 

Sorry, no sources to quote for you. But, we all have the resources to verify it.

 

On the emergence from emptiness...

 

At the deepest level, emptiness is sort of like a primal chaotic sea of clear light bubbling with potential. The surface of the sun with light and blobs shooting out is a good example. “We” are blobs of light plasma in that bubbling sea. Each self aware blob is a separate “being”, but is part of (or made from) the whole. The primal sea itself is too chaotic for the vast majority of blobs to grow. Also, it is so chaotic that it is nearly impossible for a blob (being) to stably form.

 

At some point, a blob hit critical mass and became stable. This blob/being then created a stable “bubble” in the primordial sea. This bubble was formed by separating the clear light and potential. The clear light is also sometimes called the “void”. The void is also called buddhamind or universal mind with “no activity”. “Form” is energy/light that is then created in the stable void/bubble of buddhamind which gives us what we perceive to be “existence”. The “potential” that was split off is what is called noble wisdoms.

 

Buddhamind is a shared mind space for all beings in the bubble. Or, from the human perspective, we all share the deeper aspects of what is commonly called the "subconscious". Becoming a Buddha, is realization of all the aspects of buddhamind. Once fully realized, the Buddha can then go and create a new bubble (or world system).

[C T]

Hi C T,

 

Sorry, no sources to quote for you. But, we all have the resources to verify it.

 

On the emergence from emptiness...

 

At the deepest level, emptiness is sort of like a primal chaotic sea of clear light bubbling with potential. The surface of the sun with light and blobs shooting out is a good example. “We” are blobs of light plasma in that bubbling sea. Each self aware blob is a separate “being”, but is part of (or made from) the whole. The primal sea itself is too chaotic for the vast majority of blobs to grow. Also, it is so chaotic that it is nearly impossible for a blob (being) to stably form.

 

At some point, a blob hit critical mass and became stable. This blob/being then created a stable “bubble” in the primordial sea. This bubble was formed by separating the clear light and potential. The clear light is also sometimes called the “void”. The void is also called buddhamind or universal mind with “no activity”. “Form” is energy/light that is then created in the stable void/bubble of buddhamind which gives us what we perceive to be “existence”. The “potential” that was split off is what is called noble wisdoms.

 

Buddhamind is a shared mind space for all beings in the bubble. Or, from the human perspective, we all share the deeper aspects of what is commonly called the "subconscious". Becoming a Buddha, is realization of all the aspects of buddhamind. Once fully realized, the Buddha can then go and create a new bubble (or world system).

Ok my friend. Thank you for the explanation. Seems like an interesting (and new to me) perspective. Never got a chance to study such a premise before.

[Jeff]

Ok my friend. Thank you for the explanation. Seems like an interesting (and new to me) perspective. Never got a chance to study such a premise before.

Happy to discuss anytime. Actually, it was your original recommendation of the Lankavatara sutra that sparked my interest in the deeper nature of emptiness.

[C T]

Happy to discuss anytime. Actually, it was your original recommendation of the Lankavatara sutra that sparked my interest in the deeper nature of emptiness.

Sublime, the Lankavatara.

[doc benway]

Hi C T,

 

Sorry, no sources to quote for you. But, we all have the resources to verify it.

 

On the emergence from emptiness...

 

At the deepest level, emptiness is sort of like a primal chaotic sea of clear light bubbling with potential. The surface of the sun with light and blobs shooting out is a good example. “We” are blobs of light plasma in that bubbling sea. Each self aware blob is a separate “being”, but is part of (or made from) the whole. The primal sea itself is too chaotic for the vast majority of blobs to grow. Also, it is so chaotic that it is nearly impossible for a blob (being) to stably form.

 

At some point, a blob hit critical mass and became stable. This blob/being then created a stable “bubble” in the primordial sea. This bubble was formed by separating the clear light and potential. The clear light is also sometimes called the “void”. The void is also called buddhamind or universal mind with “no activity”. “Form” is energy/light that is then created in the stable void/bubble of buddhamind which gives us what we perceive to be “existence”. The “potential” that was split off is what is called noble wisdoms.

 

Buddhamind is a shared mind space for all beings in the bubble. Or, from the human perspective, we all share the deeper aspects of what is commonly called the "subconscious". Becoming a Buddha, is realization of all the aspects of buddhamind. Once fully realized, the Buddha can then go and create a new bubble (or world system).

May I add to your painting?

 

You mention a fundamental level of clear light. And there are fluctuations within that which you describe as bubbles. Another elegant analogy I've seen to describe this is foam, indicating a multitude of bubbles expanding, contracting, translating, breathing, bursting, reforming...

 

At our human level, all appearance is what it is as a direct consequence of our unique sensory apparatus. If our sensory organs were different, we as biological organisms would evoke an entirely different universe out of the foam. The universe appears quite different to an earthworm, a bat, a tree, a dog... I can't even imagine extraterrestrial possibilities, or those that may be right here, right now, but existing at a wavelength that is outside that which we can access. It's fantastic to imagine exploring the world through our nose or pressure sensors along our ribs, or through leaves and roots. And which universe is the "accurate" one? The very visual universe of humans any of the multitude of others?

 

The universe feels solid because our skin is soft. Sound exists because we have ears and a brain to interpret the alteration in pressure on our tympanic membranes. And there are shapes and textures, colors and sounds, far beyond what we are capable of experiencing because we are like radio or tv antennae tuned to a very limited bandwidth. We ignore infinitely more than we experience and we experience an infinity of perception.

 

So in this way we are an equal partner in creation in every moment. Creation is always occurring. We are doing it and it is doing us. Each of us is a nexus of universal forces converging on and in us as an aperture in which we evoke and experience it/us in each moment. And it is all covered up by the story we tell ourselves to make sense of it all as you mentioned earlier. If we can let go of the story, we can be reborn in each instant and see that we are, and always were, IT. Will always be and have always been nothing other than IT. What else could we possibly be?

 

Sorry to go on like that but IT just sort of does that sometimes....

 

Peace y'all

[HoldorFold]

Some very interesting thoughts in here.

I suppose I was originally wondering about some sayings I've heard from a few people who I consider very wise.

Eckhart Tolle for instance says that emptiness is the source of all original creative ideas and that through emptiness you can be moved to correct action. Also, William Mistele says that pure light emenates from the void, and I've heard that elsewhere.

[RongzomFan]

We should make a distinction between other ideas of emptiness and Buddhist emptiness.

[HoldorFold]

Is Eckhart Tolle referring to a different kind of emptiness? I know he often references the TTC.

[RongzomFan]

Is Eckhart Tolle referring to a different kind of emptiness? I know he often references the TTC.

 

 

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I think we should look at the entirety of Chapter 40 for this:

 

40
反者道之動

Reversing is the Dao’s action
弱者道之用。

Delicate is the Dao’s application
天下萬物生於有，

All earthly creatures are born from that which exists
有生於無。

That which exists is born from that which does not exist.

 

(my translation)

 

"Reversing is the Dao's action" seems to be the key. Dao changes from yin to yang, yang to yin, rising and falling, expanding and contracting.

 

So, from non-existence comes existence. From extreme emptiness/contraction comes fullness/expansion.

 

Just like MPGs explanation of "space," Dao holds both emptiness and fullness. "The action of Dao is reversing."