How on earth do you keep a meditative and connected state 24x7?

[baiqi]

I don't think you can be 24/7 in a meditative state. Or if you can, it won't last a week. I see this more as an ideal, what your unreachable target is. But you must do your best (without being too tense about it).

 

Also, it is good to know how to go back to this state once you lost it. Do not worry too much if you did lose is. Just "ok, I'm no longer in a mediatative state, let's see how I can have it again."

 

Hint: practice.

[BaguaKicksAss]

others answered well....peace

 

Fortunately I get emails of each post for this thread, so I got to see your original post .

 

If you are maintaining a 'meditative state' through physiological manipulation, then as soon as you stop that manipulation the state will stop.

 

If you enter into a state of aware absorption and presence, it doesn't matter what you are doing.

 

The two are not the same thing.

 

Many teach the former as a way to have you fall into the latter, but it is not garanteed. However changing the physiology (breath, heart rate, muscle tonus etc) can develop an easier platform for many, and can support sustaining the latter state.

 

This is the difference between xian-tian and hou-tian.

 

There is in many ways nothing to do. You need to stop doing, to stop sending your awareness outwards so that you forget yourself. Let the world come to you.

 

I'm working on this too.

 

Best,

 

 

Oh well now that you put it in a Bagua perspective...

 

And... working on it, thank you.

 

I don't think you can be 24/7 in a meditative state. Or if you can, it won't last a week. I see this more as an ideal, what your unreachable target is. But you must do your best (without being too tense about it).

 

Also, it is good to know how to go back to this state once you lost it. Do not worry too much if you did lose is. Just "ok, I'm no longer in a mediatative state, let's see how I can have it again."

 

Hint: practice.

 

I have actually managed before for a couple of months at a time (there was seclusion and specific practices involved though).

 

The not being able to go back to it anytime I want has been the frustrating part lately. Sometimes I can no problem, but other times it seems quite illusive.

 

It seems that the general consensus, is to focus on my breathing . So I have been working on that every time I remember.

 

I have also been trying to get more practice time in, as that always seems to help the rest of the day.

 

I have also been trying for 24x7 (not literally in this case) with my dantien qigong meditation.

 

Thank you very much to everyone for the suggestions, and encouragement .

 

I'm sure "less time on TTBs" should probably be on my to do (or is that not to do) list as well lol.

[SonOfTheGods]

Practice Enochian.

They'll keep you in line.

[BaguaKicksAss]

LOL is this a reply joking about the MoPai vs Enochian stuff? Or are you serious?

 

(I've been practicing Enochian for about 25 years....)

[SonOfTheGods]

LOL is this a reply joking about the MoPai vs Enochian stuff? Or are you serious?

 

(I've been practicing Enochian for about 25 years....)

I am serious.

I have all the diaries etc and have been practicing for many years.

I was in the original on line project yahoo group who delved into the microfilm before it was all set on line and before Peterson put out his book.

Edited October 7, 2013 by SonOfTheGods

[BaguaKicksAss]

It was really nice of James and Peterson (and Cassaubon for that matter) to do that for us . Reading Dee's handwriting was difficult!

[SonOfTheGods]

It was really nice of James and Peterson (and Cassaubon for that matter) to do that for us . Reading Dee's handwriting was difficult!

Skinner/Rankine have some mediocre stuff out, as does Leitch.

 

I prefer the original diaries because I can feel the power going on.

 

Old English can be quite tedious though.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Skinner/Rankine should keep their day jobs when it comes to Enochian.

 

Seeing the original handwriting, yes, quite awesome! You can feel the energies/system coming off of it .

[SonOfTheGods]

Skinner/Rankine should keep their day jobs when it comes to Enochian.

 

Seeing the original handwriting, yes, quite awesome! You can feel the energies/system coming off of it .

Skinner book was pretty expensive.

 

One of the better purist how to books was from Duquette

 

Enochian isn't for everyone though

 

If you aren't called, is a bad idea

[BaguaKicksAss]

DuQuette still put some GD stuff in that book though and didn't differentiate. Not much though, yes it is a very good book . Goeffrey James is my fave however.

 

Interesting what you say about not being called. Can you please elaborate? Do you know some folks who had bad experiences? The reason I ask is that Enochian seems to be a currently local trend, by magicians who work with 5 other systems as well .

[寒月 Hanyue]

Oh well now that you put it in a Bagua perspective...

Did I?

 

I just view it as Daoist. To me there is only one thing that is being pointed to. If a system alludes to a part of that thing, like taiji, wuxing, sancai, bagua etc then to me that is simply their xuanmen or gateway into the mystery of the Dao. It doesn't mean the other apsects are less relevant in any way. We all need to find a gateway, our gateway.

And... working on it, thank you.

I think we'll all be working on it for some time, there are always higher levels as my teacher says.

 

It seems that the general consensus, is to focus on my breathing . So I have been working on that every time I remember.

 

I was not inferring to focus upon your breath, others maybe. For me this makes little sense. If you place your attention upon your breathing you are doing something (youwei), if you are doing something you can be distracted from doing something when doing something else, maintaining such an active split awareness is effort, and effort needs energy to be sustained. This means it is hard to maintain over time, implying an aspect of endurance. And so the whole thing becomes an endurance test.

 

Now, that being said, I will note that many cultivation schools actually advise and use this very training, for this very reason! Building endurance capacity (physical, mental, emotional, energetic etc) There is always a reason. However, unless this is your aim or reason, then this approach may not give you what you actually want.

 

If you want a 24/7 meditation, then first you need to distinguish "genuine" meditation from expanded consciousness states emerging from physiological manipulation. For myself, I spent years with the view that a "meditation" state was an expanded or altered state of consiousness, something that felt different, something that had something in it. A sense of oneness, a sense of bliss, a sense of serenity, an expanded awareness of qi, something.

 

Of course I missed the point that it is most often described as still or empty. How can something emerging from the unmanifested, a place before 'things' have 'something' within it?

 

True meditation, so I have been taught is something you do not do (cannot do, it is non-doing), but is a deep state that you can fall into but is hard to maintain. Preceeding that is a less deep absorption into full awareness of the present moment. While the deep state of say "true" meditation is something that can only really be achieved while still (unless, well, you are very high level), the preceeding state can be maintained 24/7.

 

Given that it is this state that is in fact the place from where any and all 'breath' watching practices should occur, it is not tied to any active doing. It is in fact a passive state (wuwei), not in the zombie sense, but in a not interfering sense.

 

How can doing anything then distract you from this place? Since you are not splitting awareness or effort to do two things simultaneously, you are doing what you are doing, but from a place of full awareness of the present moment of the moment. Is this not meditation 24/7??

 

And yet, why is entering and staying in this state so hard? Well I have found entering it is not hard, to my surprise not hard at all. I just didn't have a reference point or know what I was looking for. The story of the guy searching for keys under the street lamp, not because that is where he dropped them, but because that is where the light is (so he can see), is relevant I feel. However even if you can go there, staying there, well that is another thing entirely. The world of 10,000 things is an alluring place

 

Thank you very much to everyone for the suggestions, and encouragement .

My feeling, I hope you are able to find what you are looking for

I'm sure "less time on TTBs" should probably be on my to do (or is that not to do) list as well lol.

 

Less time on da bums!? I hear you on that

 

Best,

Edited October 9, 2013 by snowmonki

[Ish]

With practice of just being simple.

[寒月 Hanyue]

With practice of just BEING simple.

 

The simplest, yet hardest and most elusive

[SonOfTheGods]

DuQuette still put some GD stuff in that book though and didn't differentiate. Not much though, yes it is a very good book . Goeffrey James is my fave however.

 

Interesting what you say about not being called. Can you please elaborate? Do you know some folks who had bad experiences? The reason I ask is that Enochian seems to be a currently local trend, by magicians who work with 5 other systems as well .

 

James is the best author by far for the purist.

 

There is a lot of Enochian sensationalism on the internet, so I do not want to add to the hysteria.

 

However, I used to teach a few Enochian advanced classes to a local OTO group years ago, and they had a couple of horror stories.

 

The reason for bad effects doing Enochian is quite simple.

 

1. Do not mix Enochian with anything else.

 

Gerald Schuler made a mess of it with his GD techniques.

So did Regardie, from which Schuler plagiarised.

 

All of that, because Crowley mixed it up with his various flavours.

 

Enochian is more than one complete magickal system, and it stands alone. It does not need anything else added to it.

 

These entities are ancient, primordial even, and do not play well with others. Now, of course, some magickians can get away with mixing it up, because they have some experience. Those who are starting out, can easily get into trouble.

 

Trouble comes in ways that at the beginning, seem like results.

However the neophyte will come to realize they were being played and get checkmated soon enough.

 

Grimoire magicks, such as the Goetia, can also be dangerous for those who are not sure what they are doing.

 

Enochian though, can break you permanently if it "goes sour".

 

Enochian will CALL YOU.

 

The Entities say it themselves.

 

If they do not want you, DO NOT PUSH IT.

 

I do Enochian, then take a break from it, so it does not neuro fry me.

 

I know when the break is over because they visit me in dreams and in synchronicites.

 

One time when sleeping, I woke up inside my temple, starting a WatchTower opening.

 

Somnambulism and EMI are Enochian favorites when they call me back.

 

I will state that Enochian has been a 100% success for myself, and nothing bad, ever.

 

Enochian trends happen.

 

I once had several email correspondances with Tool's Danny Carey, who put some Enochian calls in the background music.

His mom had some horrific experiences because of it.

 

Others enjoy purposely adding to the hype, that's how the Necronomicon got all the hysteria.

 

There is a direct correlation too.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Yeah Tyson didn't help matters at all with this either .

[joeblast]

a deep state that you can fall into but is hard to maintain. Preceeding that is a less deep absorption into full awareness of the present moment. While the deep state of say "true" meditation is something that can only really be achieved while still (unless, well, you are very high level), the preceeding state can be maintained 24/7.

 

Given that it is this state that is in fact the place from where any and all 'breath' watching practices should occur, it is not tied to any active doing. It is in fact a passive state (wuwei), not in the zombie sense, but in a not interfering sense.

in my experience, the time spent having done the rote breathwork analysis ad absurdum is the thing that sets up the inertia for being able to maintain. the deeper and longer my breaths and meditations are, the calmer, clearer, quieter my mind is in waking, sleeping, working.

 

its like riding a bike, you're not pedaling all the time, but you pedal a bit to keep the momentum going. sometimes when the hill gets steeper, you pedal more...and when coasting...you just sit pleasantly

[寒月 Hanyue]

Indeed. Which is why such things are taught. However the two are still mixed and confused by the majority of people. Given the forum and e-list posts by a lot of people, and even the writings and teachings of many "meditation" teachers : (

 

It turns out one teacher I knew did it to see who was really paying attention!

 

There is a reciprocal relationship. You can enter the cycle at either point. But neither has to be an either or situation, but shhh its a secret ; )

[Kadesdes]

I think we all need to be aware that we are all talking about the same "meditative state" - some of us may not be talking about the same thing or have experienced it the same way.

 

To me it feels I am in that state all of the time to varying degrees (or rather we all are shifting, but some are so distracted by the world and drama they rarely see it) - it is the state within which all things happen - the space, the stage upon which all occurs and emanates from.

 

Problems arise when we forget we are this space and become seduced by the allure of the play, the movie, the drama, the 10 000 things. We begin to think we are this or that specific thing and take things personally. The world contracts and the contradictions, conflicts and misery arises until we return to the emptiness.

 

Initially you may need a specific practise to jump start the process but ultimately it is a non - doing, no effort, an allowing, an embracing all that is.

Edited October 15, 2013 by Kadesdes