Finding a good guide / teacher.

[joeblast]

this thread has been off topic since about post #19

[Aetherous]

Bottom line:

Adolf Hitler could have become an immortal if he had the right training.

Mother Theresa didn't have the right training, so she did not become an immortal.

 

False.

 

edit: I won't go back and forth any more than I have. My attempts have been to differentiate real paths from the false and harmful, which is in line with the topic.

Edited October 9, 2013 by turtle shell

[Wells]

False.

 

Lim:

Mass murderer, rapist, thief, consumed by hatred.

Trained like a maniac with a great Nei Kung system for 10 years.

Immortal at level 51.

 

this thread has been off topic since about post #19

 

Ttb seems to be overrun by 12 year olds with ADHD at the time.

Almost all threads are off topic within 10 posts.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Dorian Black

[soaring crane]

Hello, I'm trying to find a teacher to teach me about the internal arts. Is there somethings I should look for specifically?

 

Modesty and a friendly smile would be a good start. I mean the teacher's, not your own

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

some more thoughts ...

 

But you should also be modest and smile a lot.

 

Also, it would be good if you were to always go home with more questions than answers. A teacher/guide who has all the answers isn't as valuable as one who ignites the spark of curiosity in you and inspires you to explore your own intuitive approach. A good teacher will be very interested in hearing about your experiences, and perhaps learning from you.

 

Hitler would have been a horrible teacher, whether he were an immortal or not.

 

ha ha

Edited October 9, 2013 by soaring crane

[xor]

Besides lacking training, many people are now saying she wasn't that great either.

 

edit: theresa that is

Edited October 10, 2013 by xor

[Thunder_Gooch]

No real immortal would suggest that killing women and children makes you into an immortal, or that it's fine to do.

You've got a spin that would make Bill O'Reilly proud.

 

I never said anything of the sort.

 

 

 

It absolutely is how reality works. We have to live with our conscience, and the consequences of our actions...to create more issues to deal with is not the way.

Sorry turtle, it isn't. It's only how your imagination works. Nature doesn't allow or deny a caterpillar the right to undergo metamorphosis based on how many of his fellow caterpillars he killed.

 

You can make up all kinds of make believe things to tell yourself about why morality is what is needed to escape rebirth, but I don't see any caterpillars lined up to work in soup kitchens.

 

This is a physical tangible transformation, not a moral or ethical one.

 

Killing or healing has no bearing on whether or not you can undergo such a metamorphosis.

 

Feel free to play make believe and pretend it does though.

 

 

 

edit: I won't go back and forth any more than I have. My attempts have been to differentiate real paths from the false and harmful, which is in line with the topic.

LOL. Make believe, vs paths with real evidence backing them up.

 

 

 

 

False.

TRUE.

Edited October 10, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[SecretGrotto]

You've got a spin that would make Bill O'Reilly proud.

 

I never said anything of the sort.

 

 

 

Sorry turtle, it isn't. It's only how your imagination works. Nature doesn't allow or deny a caterpillar the right to undergo metamorphosis based on how many of his fellow caterpillars he killed.

 

You can make up all kinds of make believe things to tell yourself about why morality is what is needed to escape rebirth, but I don't see any caterpillars lined up to work in soup kitchens.

 

This is a physical tangible transformation, not a moral or ethical one.

 

Killing or healing has no bearing on whether or not you can undergo such a metamorphosis.

 

 

Grace cannot be earned. Virtue is a prerequisite. Karmic bounds must be dissolved.

 

It is well established in e.g. Yogic and Taoist traditions observed by liberated beings, that virtue (Te) is a prerequisite to unhindered spiritual development. Karma-'ish' repercussions, in addition to a lack of virtue, can indeed make it very hard to receive proper and enough Grace to become liberated.

 

In fact, almost without exception, the Yogic masters placed first and foremost the focus on devotion in order to access Grace for liberation. Concurrently, the importance of being virtuous in addition to having devotion was underlined. Without it you cannot hope to receive proper Grace, which is the magic ingredient to liberation.

 

It is possible to dissolve karmic bounds with exercises, like Kriya Yoga is notably known for.

 

To quote but one of many masters, Wang Juemin: "Be a good and moral person." Arguably his most important instruction.

 

Sure, it is possible to advance in spite of a lack of virtue, but you will inevitably reach an obstacle that can be overcome only through Grace.

Edited October 10, 2013 by SecretGrotto

[Isimsiz Biri]

Does being a low level Hsien mean you have to work really really really hard to move up. Otherwise you are stuck in a hinterland.

 

I have heard warnings about becoming a low level immortal and getting stuck there.... not a desirable outcome.

 

Good questions. I think nobody knows the precisely correct answer. My humble opinion, Liao did not become a low level Xian.

By the way, what is Xian? I birefly looked at the following link but there was no clear answer for me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xian_(Taoism)

 

Again, my favourite candidates to prevent rebirth is Rumi and Shams Tabrizi and great Sufis of love and compassion.

 

 

Lim:

Mass murderer, rapist, thief, consumed by hatred.

Trained like a maniac with a great Nei Kung system for 10 years.

Immortal at level 51.

 

He may have been level 51. He was not Immortal.

 

 

Sorry turtle, it isn't. It's only how your imagination works. Nature doesn't allow or deny a caterpillar the right to undergo metamorphosis based on how many of his fellow caterpillars he killed.

You can make up all kinds of make believe things to tell yourself about why morality is what is needed to escape rebirth, but I don't see any caterpillars lined up to work in soup kitchens.

This is a physical tangible transformation, not a moral or ethical one.

Killing or healing has no bearing on whether or not you can undergo such a metamorphosis.

Feel free to play make believe and pretend it does though.

LOL. Make believe, vs paths with real evidence backing them up.

 

You exactly sound like Soviet era scientists. Frankly speaking, with this materialism, you are spending your valuable time here for nothing. Clearly, those "products of imagination" will not grant you any neigong power until end your of your life for your own sake.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Isimsiz Biri

[zerostao]

i reckon that one must understand the experience of being in the box before they can truly understand and experience out of the box. and holding to a hard objective line and not allowing for the infinite possibilities of the wonders of subjectivity will prevent true advancing. one does not find the good guide/teacher.

the good guide/teacher finds you.

the good guide/teacher will actively seek out the student and find them.

if the student is worthy and recognizes the opportunity,,,,,,,,,,

[Thunder_Gooch]

 

Grace cannot be earned. Virtue is a prerequisite. Karmic bounds must be dissolved.

 

It is well established in e.g. Yogic and Taoist traditions observed by liberated beings, that virtue (Te) is a prerequisite to unhindered spiritual development. Karma-'ish' repercussions, in addition to a lack of virtue, can indeed make it very hard to receive proper and enough Grace to become liberated.

 

In fact, almost without exception, the Yogic masters placed first and foremost the focus on devotion in order to access Grace for liberation. Concurrently, the importance of being virtuous in addition to having devotion was underlined. Without it you cannot hope to receive proper Grace, which is the magic ingredient to liberation.

 

It is possible to dissolve karmic bounds with exercises, like Kriya Yoga is notably known for.

 

To quote but one of many masters, Wang Juemin: "Be a good and moral person." Arguably his most important instruction.

 

Sure, it is possible to advance in spite of a lack of virtue, but you will inevitably reach an obstacle that can be overcome only through Grace.

 

I am not saying to be moral or amoral. I am saying it has no bearing on your status as a hsien.

 

That is the fact of the matter.

 

You can present all the authorities you want on the matter, and I still wouldn't even bother to wipe my *** with their half baked teachings. They don't know what they are talking about.

[SecretGrotto]

You can present all the authorities you want on the matter, and I still wouldn't even bother to wipe my *** with their half baked teachings. They don't know what they are talking about.

 

Astounding.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Hi.

 

I dont know specifically about this: about Liao, but I started to read the thread and l would like to ask question.

 

Is there a difference in the immortal that Liao is, and the immortal that a virtuous person is.

 

 

Did Liao repent/clear away the energy he created? If not, is he an immortal, within the energy he created? If not, how could he escape what he created/precipitated?

 

There is just one type of immortality.

 

Being a virtuous person will just earn you good karma that will need to be paid off after death the same way negative karma will. Once it's been repaid your back in the game for another round.

 

 

It doesn't really matter if Liao repented or not, he could have killed every man woman and child in the whole of Asia and as long as he was high enough level he wouldn't reincarnate.

 

You see you guys are still hung up on this being a spiritual thing. It aint.

 

It's no more spiritual than a caterpillar becoming a butterfly.

 

 

 

 

Does being a low level Hsien mean you have to work really really really hard to move up. Otherwise you are stuck in a hinterland.

 

I have heard warnings about becoming a low level immortal and getting stuck there.... not a desirable outcome.

 

I am not certain if it is possible to move up without taking on a physical body again.

 

 

 

 

______________________________________________________

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good questions. I think nobody knows the precisely correct answer. My humble opinion, Liao did not become a low level Xian.

By the way, what is Xian? I birefly looked at the following link but there was no clear answer for me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xian_(Taoism)

 

Again, my favourite candidates to prevent rebirth is Rumi and Shams Tabrizi and great Sufis of love and compassion.

 

 

 

He may have been level 51. He was not Immortal.

 

 

 

You exactly sound like Soviet era scientists. Frankly speaking, with this materialism, you are spending your valuable time here for nothing. Clearly, those "products of imagination" will not grant you any neigong power until end your of your life for your own sake.

 

He was immortal in the sense his mind survived the transition into death unlike virtually everyone else on planet earth. What remains of 99.99999999999999999999% of the population is a dead husk of a mind, with no volition or ability to remember or understand emotion, a dreaming subconscious mind.

 

Compassion has no effect on your mind surviving death, and would be as ridiculous as telling caterpillars they must work in soup kitchens to become butterflies.

 

 

Mo pai is a science, if you think otherwise you are sorely mistaken.

Edited October 10, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[Isimsiz Biri]

He was immortal in the sense his mind survived the transition into death unlike virtually everyone else on planet earth. What remains of 99.99999999999999999999% of the population is a dead husk of a mind, with no volition or ability to remember or understand emotion, a dreaming subconscious mind.

Compassion has no effect on your mind surviving death, and would be as ridiculous as telling caterpillars they must work in soup kitchens to become butterflies.

Mo pai is a science, if you think otherwise you are sorely mistaken.

 

You do not have any capability to observe higher realms. You do not know whether "his mind survived into transition unlike virtually everyone else on planet earth. What remains of 99.99999999999999999999% of the population is a dead husk of a mind, with no volition or ability to remember or understand emotion, a dreaming subconscious mind." or not. Again, this is just your opinion as 99% of the case, it is not correct.

 

Compassion and love is the basis of creation but I am not expecting you to understand it at all. In order to understand it, you have to clear rusts on your heart. Just do not spray your upper body with some anti rust when you read this.

 

Mo Pai is not a science as you understand. In science, you go to a lab, you make experiments and find some results. Another scientist comes and if he/she makes the same experiment, he/she should find exactly the same results as you did. Then, it becomes science. John Chang reached level 20 (let us assume it, it is true) Why did his students not reach level 4 and beyond? Any idea? Then, Mo Pai is not a science in the sense that you understand.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Isimsiz Biri

[Thunder_Gooch]

 

You do not have any capability to observe higher realms. You do not know whether "his mind survived into transition unlike virtually everyone else on planet earth. What remains of 99.99999999999999999999% of the population is a dead husk of a mind, with no volition or ability to remember or understand emotion, a dreaming subconscious mind." or not. Again, this is just your opinion as 99% of the case, it is not correct.

 

Compassion and love is the basis of creation but I am not expecting you to understand it at all. In order to understand it, you have to clear rusts on your heart. Just do not spray your upper body with some anti rust when you read this.

 

Mo Pai is not a science as you understand. In science, you go to a lab, you make experiments and find some results. Another scientist comes and if he/she makes the same experiment, he/she should find exactly the same results as you did. Then, it becomes science. John Chang reached level 20 (let us assume it, it is true) Why did his students not reach level 4 and beyond? Any idea? Then, Mo Pai is not a science in the sense that you understand.

Don't be so certain of what I can observe and cannot observe.

 

That is exactly what mo pai is, a science in the purest sense of the word.

 

Compassion and love have nothing to do with anything regarding ending rebirth.

 

Feel free to keep arguing for your lovey dovey peaced out spiritual neo-hippy belief systems though.

[Isimsiz Biri]

Don't be so certain of what I can observe and cannot observe.

That is exactly what mo pai is, a science in the purest sense of the word.

Compassion and love have nothing to do with anything regarding ending rebirth.

Feel free to keep arguing for your lovey dovey peaced out spiritual neo-hippy belief systems though.

 

I am not neo-hippy. But instead of being a terminator like being as you are, I would prefer to be a neo-hippy, at least it is human. By the way, do you look like Arnold Schwarzenegger in Terminator movie? If you are, I will not be surprised.

[Iskote]

More_Pie_Guy, I think a different way to look at matters such as this is for each person to take a few steps back and examine carefully about what they personally hold as 'true', or what they at least have a lot of faith as being true, to consider if they can really say for certain that such a thing is really necessarily true. You say you do not care what any master or guru might have said about virtue and moral behavior and karma in regards to becoming some sort of immortal (xian) or similar, and that is fine, but at the same time you also appear to be taking various things as definitely 'true' about mopai or master Liao and 'immortals' and karma, which it really seems you have only gathered from books or maybe through things other people have told you and your own persoanl opinions and views. You may want to consider this question, how can you be so sure that what you *believe* about mopai and master Liao and immortals and karma is any more true than the views others may have about immortality and spirituality based on what various masters or gurus have taught or whatever else? For example, I don't think it is very likely anyone here can say for absolute certain what this master Liao's current state really is after he passed away, unless they themself are some sort of immortal who has directly experienced such things and fully understands them.

 

I personally don't know one way or the other, but let's say for a moment that a person chooses to *believe* that John Chang really does communicate with master Liao from time to time using some special abilities, and that master Liao really is able to know what is going on here on Earth and give messages and directions to John Chang and that sort of thing. Does this necessarily mean that master Liao is some sort of actual 'immortal' or could it also be possible that master Liao has become some sort of Earth bound ghost or spirit or something like that, and is existing in some sort of 'ghost realms' or whatever else? There may be many other possibilities as well depending on what a person may believe or think is possible after a person dies. Who really knows for certain what Liao's actual state really is? Also how do you really know for certain that spirituality has nothing at all to do with becoming an 'immortal', that it is all just 'science', and anyone good or bad or no matter what they have done can achieve a state immortality if they practice certain practices and achieve certain results? Let's say this really is true and such people really can achieve some sort of 'immortal' state that is somehow different than the state your average person experiences after they die. What the actual dimensions this 'immortal' person is existing in would be the next thing to consider. It seems at least conceivable to me that although this person may really have achieved some special abilities, they may not necessarily be in really 'high' dimensions, if we make the assumption that there really can be various different dimensional states beyond our physical dimensions that people can 'go' to after they die, as various mystics have described.

 

From my point of view, unless I had personally achieved such an exact state and knew this from my own actual direct experience, I could not ever say for certain that such a thing was definitely true. If I haven't personally directly experienced it, I would have to admit that holding that such a thing is definitely true is really just based on beliefs and assumptions. It is easy to see assumptions and beliefs in others, but not always so easy to recognize the same things in our own views.

[skydog]

"The real question is not whether life exists or not after death, the question is whether you are alive or not before death"

[Iskote]

"The real question is not whether life exists or not after death, the question is whether you are alive or not before death"

Well, it can be six to one, and half a dozen to another. Anyway, I think everyone probably has there own particular ideas and questions that are important to them. Regarding finding a good guide or a teacher, IMO a good guide or teacher is someone who does not provide answers, or who at least does not expect a student to just blindly accept things as they are told, as it seems to me that accepting such ready answers still always involves some degree of faith unless you have experienced such things yourself, but instead a good teacher or guide to me is someone who mainly provides the means and guidance for a person to find their own answers.

 

Regarding direct experience, there is still always the matter of how much we can trust our own experiences and our subsequent interpretation of these experiences as being true, but various mystics and ascetics seem to have found ways to at least prove to themself what are apparently deeper truths, at least so they tell us. Those who have not had such experiences still have to take a leap of faith to some extent to decide to put in the effort and long hours in cultivation, with the hope that their cultivation efforts will eventualy lead to something very valuable. Typically however, after one has been cultivating for a while you will usually start to get some smaller results of one sort or another that can give you more reason to keep going, even if you still have to take it on faith that much deeper and more valuable experiences can at least potentially lie ahead.

[Thunder_Gooch]

which it really seems you have only gathered from books or maybe through things other people have told you and your own persoanl opinions and views.

What I have said is reality as I have directly observed it to be.

 

I don't talk about my own experiences in meditation because no one here would believe them anyway, I know I wouldn't. The best I can hope for is people who would be willing to dedicate the time to the correct form of meditation to see for themselves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You may want to consider this question, how can you be so sure that what you *believe* about mopai and master Liao and immortals and karma is any more true than the views others may have about immortality and spirituality based on what various masters or gurus have taught or whatever else?

It isn't what I believe, it's reality as it is, as I have directly observed.

[SecretGrotto]

What I have said is reality as I have directly observed it to be.

 

It isn't what I believe, it's reality as it is, as I have directly observed.

 

I hope all those authorities with their "half baked teachings" would follow your supreme example and observe reality directly, like you. You are so unique and special, I doubt any of these so-called masters and lineages could ever observe reality as you do.

 

At most they might get a "half baked" idea of it, but never the full picture like you do. I wish you would start teaching your meditation methods, it is truly unique.

[Thunder_Gooch]

 

I hope all those authorities with their "half baked teachings" would follow your supreme example and observe reality directly, like you. You are so unique and special, I doubt any of these so-called masters and lineages could ever observe reality as you do.

 

At most they might get a "half baked" idea of it, but never the full picture like you do. I wish you would start teaching your meditation methods, it is truly unique.

Half baked is giving them too much credit, absolute bull**** is a better way of saying it.

 

My method of meditation isn't unique at all, and I didn't invent it.

 

I am also not special in any sense, and anyone else who isn't a newage ADHD ****ing ***hat cant come see for themselves as well.

[三江源]

.

Edited July 21, 2014 by cat

[Ish]

"It’s whether your mind is pure enough to match and reconnect with God’s frequency. Remember the rule: if your energy is pure and light and matches the frequency of God you will get closer to that Center. If your energy is heavy and slow, you will fall further away. Bad actions will lower that frequency, but so will bad thoughts. This is because both spring from the same heavy, slow and negative energy inside of you.

Liao, Waysun (2010-10-11). Tao: The Way of God (Kindle Locations 1134-1137). Taichi Tao Productions. Kindle Edition. "

Returning completely to the frequency of Dao = Immortality

[Isimsiz Biri]

I really dont like this 'combining posts' function... I'm replying here to the bit addressed to me.

 

I hear you saying that it isnt a spiritual thing in the sense of virtue.. that it is possible to be an immortal and be a bit of a jerk.

 

And so.. what does an immortal jerk actually do. A virtuous immortal I can imagine being useful. An immortal pillock....is.. non utilitarian.

 

What.. just go on and on and on and on... eventually you'd have to twig that being of beneift to others is the best thing to be.... so you'd have to choose rebirth just to get yourself a bit of an upgrade..

Good post

[Thunder_Gooch]

I really dont like this 'combining posts' function... I'm replying here to the bit addressed to me.

 

I hear you saying that it isnt a spiritual thing in the sense of virtue.. that it is possible to be an immortal and be a bit of a jerk.

 

And so.. what does an immortal jerk actually do. A virtuous immortal I can imagine being useful. An immortal pillock....is.. non utilitarian.

 

What.. just go on and on and on and on... eventually you'd have to twig that being of beneift to others is the best thing to be.... so you'd have to choose rebirth just to get yourself a bit of an upgrade..

 

You are missing the point.

 

Whether a caterpillar was a jerk or not has no bearing on its ability to become a butterfly.

 

I am not advocating being a jerk or anything else.

 

Just pointing out you guys are making associations between things that have no connection at all.

 

Being good will earn you good karma, but that still has to be repaid after you die, it doesn't stop rebirth.

Edited October 12, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy