Ramana Quote does not belong in CN Norbu's latest book

[Paul]

I'm commenting on the Indian mindset. I happen to be Indian. And so is Alwayson. It's also tongue in cheek. But high functioning autistics won't be able to tell that.

 

We have to overcome hundreds of years of colonial oppression, which is what racism did to us. So you guys trying to tamp that down is a manifestation of what you are criticizing. I guess that makes you guys successful colonialists.

 

This was also tongue in cheek. Don't hesitate to get a life.

[konchog uma]

there's only one way to settle this... a cricket match!

[RongzomFan]

[Paul]

Btw. Red faced demons comes from the Tibetans. They would paint red spots on their cheeks before battle. Also their creation myth says they come from a red monkey and a red demoness.

 

there's only one way to settle this... a cricket match!

We're both team India.

[Protector]

I wonder what will I hear when I say I'm Russian

[Apech]

I wonder what will I hear when I say I'm Russian

 

 

Do you play cricket?

[konchog uma]

Btw. Red faced demons comes from the Tibetans. They would paint red spots on their cheeks before battle. Also their creation myth says they come from a red monkey and a red demoness.

 

We're both team India.

 

haha padmasambhava called the Tibetans "red faced demons" in Yeshe Tsogyal's account of his life.. maybe he was racist too!!

 

i guess team india wins

[三江源]

I find your statements here racist and highly offensive.

True.. and also so wildly innacurate as to be meaningless.

Edited October 15, 2013 by cat

[Protector]

Do you play cricket?

 

Too noisy

[Tibetan_Ice]

I'm commenting on the Indian mindset. I happen to be Indian. And so is Alwayson. It's also tongue in cheek. But high functioning autistics won't be able to tell that.

 

We have to overcome hundreds of years of colonial oppression, which is what racism did to us. So you guys trying to tamp that down is a manifestation of what you are criticizing. I guess that makes you guys successful colonialists.

 

This was also tongue in cheek. Don't hesitate to get a life.

 

I happen to be human first. I don't use my ethnicity, personal history or temporary beliefs as a crutch nor am I hindered by the prejudice and hatred that you, Alwaysoff, CT, and Kochhog Uma seem to accept. There are fine spiritual people and idiots in all races and historical lineages, and anyone who declares superiority or some kind of advantage by factors other than their own accomplishments and behaviour is fooling themselves.

 

We have all had mutliple lives as different species, so why should your current personal history make you exempt from forum rules, or make the chips on your shoulders any more special than everyone elses'?

 

Somehow I don't think racism, and joining together in groups to attack, laugh at, taunt and derail members' threads is representative of the general Buddhist population.

 

I reported this to the Mods, but nothing was done.

 

It's a free-for-all, isn't it?

 

Who was it that said "Best to travel alone than in the company of fools?"

[RongzomFan]

Somehow I don't think racism, and joining together in groups to attack, laugh at, taunt and derail members' threads is representative of the general Buddhist population.

 

I am not representative of the Buddhist population.

 

My specific Andhra people came up with Mahayana in the first place.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andhra_Pradesh#Early_history

 

And then Andhra continued to be a strong site of Mahayana/Vajrayana for a thousand years, according to Ronald Davidson.

Edited October 18, 2013 by alwayson

[Simple_Jack]

Somehow I don't think racism, and joining together in groups to attack, laugh at, taunt and derail members' threads is representative of the general Buddhist population.

 

Dude, chill out, no one's out to get you.

[jogi secreto]

Tibetan Ice, you post is shockingly off the mark. Of course Ramana Maharshi is not a Dzogchen master - that's as obvious as pointing out the blueness of the sky. I was shocked at your attempts to frame Ramana Maharshi as a Dzogchen master...Everybody knows that the Dzogchen masters are people like Padmasambhava, Garab Dorje, Vimalamitra, Shrisimha, Dhanasamskrta, Buddhaguhya, Vairocana, Jnanasutra, Rongzom, Longchenpa, Mipham, Dudjom and so forth.

 

Where, o where, in these lineages is there mention of Ramana Maharshi? It's completely and utterly, tragically off the mark to start claiming that Ramana Maharshi or any random spiritual teacher is a Dzogchen master. Really amazing that you would think this. I suppose Jesus and Mohammad might also be Dzogchen masters?

 

Malcolm is absolutely correct to admonish Adriano Clemente for inserting non-Buddhist teachings in his translation. Bravo Malcolm. Well said. People who think that any random spiritual teacher is or might be a Dzogchen master merely because of...your reasoning, which is totally incorrect - are way off. A Dzogchen master is just another name for a Buddha, a perfectly enlightened being, like the Buddha, or Longchenpa, or Padmasambhava. The lineages of enlightened buddhas have never included non-Buddhist teachers, and they never will..! Just how you propose to work Ramana Maharshi into the lineage of Buddhas is really puzzling - and it is also impossible and will not and cannot happen.

 

Has Ramana Maharshi ever himself claimed to be a Buddha? I don't think so...has he ever taught Dzogchen? Or Mahayana? Or Prasangika-Madhyamaka or any Buddhist philosophy whatsoever? If he was never involved with any Buddhist teaching, how in the world could he be a Buddha? This is nothing but one of those really bizarre things that uninformed people dream up.

Edited November 12, 2013 by jogi secreto

[RongzomFan]

Don't get worked up. I don't think any Buddhist here takes Tibetan_Ice seriously.

[jogi secreto]

Don't get worked up. I don't think any Buddhist here takes Tibetan_Ice seriously.

Err...this is my very first day on this forum. I never heard of Taobums, or Tibetan Ice, or anything of the like, except by accident, by searching ("googgoggling" I believe the plebs - of which I am one - term it) "Marvelous Primordial State". It came up with this extraordinary claim by our friend here...that Ramana Maharshi was most probably an enlightened Buddha and the equal of the Buddha and Padmasambhava. Not getting worked up, but such an outlandish thing...did tend to elicit a strong response.

[RongzomFan]

--------

Edited November 12, 2013 by RongzomFan

[RongzomFan]

The life of Ramana is nothing like the lives of our masters:

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32153-mystical-buddhist-readings/

[jogi secreto]

I know nothing about the life of Ramayana Mahapandita, or whatever his name is, but since he is not a Buddhist, far less a Dzogchen practitioner or guru/lama, it would be strange if he did have anything in common with the members of the Dzogchen lineage of masters, let alone any other Buddhist masters.

 

By the bye, off the topic, RongzomFan, which teachings by Rongzom Mahapandita have you got access to? As far as I know, only the two have made their way into English: the well-known Establishing Appearances as Divine, and the slightly less-known commentary to the Nama-samgiti, which was brought out by a small, independent publisher about a year ago.

 

Are there any other teachings by Rongzom that are available in English?

 

PS again I apologise for wandering off the topic.

Edited November 13, 2013 by jogi secreto

[RongzomFan]

not that I know

[jogi secreto]

Ahh...so, to continue the off-topic dialogue...Where did you acquire your Rongzom fan-ship from...? I expect you can study Tibetan or something? As for me, my fan-ship of Rongzom comes from:

 

1. Mipham's continued glorification of him and Longchen;

2. Rongzom, Longchenpa and Mipham being the "3 omniscient ones"

3. The two texts I mentioned.

 

Again, sorry for the long off-topic digression. But after all, it's not everyday you meet a fellow Rongzom fan! And one with the perspicacious insight to also ward people off Onion Lama as well!

Edited November 13, 2013 by jogi secreto

[RongzomFan]

I like Rongzom because he views sutra (even Madhyamaka) as inferior to tantra.

 

Makes things easy.

Edited November 13, 2013 by RongzomFan

[jogi secreto]

You like Rongzom for that reason?? Oh my goodness...that's kind of bizarre,,,because everyone knows sutra is inferior to tantra....Even the Lama from the Onion Region knows that...

 

That seems like an odd reason to be a Rongzom fan :/ Even non-Buddhists know that tantra is superior to sutra...to say nothing of all Tibetan Buddhist schools.

 

Strange.................Because you say (correctly) to study Rongzom, not Tsongkhapa (the Onion Region Lama) - but the reason you give is illogical - because Tsongkhapa also views tantra as superior...so you logic is lacking I would have thought?

 

Wouldn't it be better to say that Rongzom is an omniscient one of the Dzogchen lineage, who teaches and knows all the Dzogchen tantras and upadeshas,- indeed, the complete 9 vehicles - whereas Tsongkhapa only knows and teachers the Anuttarayoga tantras.

 

That would be a far more logical reason to like Rongzom over Tsongkhapa.

 

I mean, the whole point of the 9 vehicles of the Nyingma is that it's a graded level of study and realisation, from Hinayana, Bodhisattvayana, tantra, Dzogchen....Even adherents of Yogacara dont necessarily say that their view is superior to tantra - and as for Madhyamaka, Madhyamaka is not separate from Dzogchen or tantra - [Prasangika-]Madhyamaka is the actual philosophy behind Dzogchen itself..In terms of dialectical proof and disproof, or valid cognition and its opposite, Prasangika-Madhyamaka is the tool of choice of the Atiyogin. That is why, in his Establishing Appearances as Divine - a sublime Nyingma text - Rongzom discusses at length and in extreme detail all the finer points of Madhyamaka philosophy..

Edited November 13, 2013 by jogi secreto

[RongzomFan]

because everyone knows sutra is inferior to tantra....

 

Actually, later Tibetan Buddhists said tantra is equivalent to Madhyamaka in terms of view.

 

That is why, in his Establishing Appearances as Divine - a sublime Nyingma text - Rongzom discusses at length and in extreme detail all the finer points of Madhyamaka philosophy..

 

Nope. Rongzom is a critic of Madhyamaka.

 

Rongzom says that while Madhyamaka subscribes to 2 truths, tantra subscribes to 1 truth.

Edited November 13, 2013 by RongzomFan

[Tibetan_Ice]

Tibetan Ice, you post is shockingly off the mark. Of course Ramana Maharshi is not a Dzogchen master - that's as obvious as pointing out the blueness of the sky. I was shocked at your attempts to frame Ramana Maharshi as a Dzogchen master...Everybody knows that the Dzogchen masters are people like Padmasambhava, Garab Dorje, Vimalamitra, Shrisimha, Dhanasamskrta, Buddhaguhya, Vairocana, Jnanasutra, Rongzom, Longchenpa, Mipham, Dudjom and so forth.

 

Where, o where, in these lineages is there mention of Ramana Maharshi? It's completely and utterly, tragically off the mark to start claiming that Ramana Maharshi or any random spiritual teacher is a Dzogchen master. Really amazing that you would think this. I suppose Jesus and Mohammad might also be Dzogchen masters?

 

Malcolm is absolutely correct to admonish Adriano Clemente for inserting non-Buddhist teachings in his translation. Bravo Malcolm. Well said. People who think that any random spiritual teacher is or might be a Dzogchen master merely because of...your reasoning, which is totally incorrect - are way off. A Dzogchen master is just another name for a Buddha, a perfectly enlightened being, like the Buddha, or Longchenpa, or Padmasambhava. The lineages of enlightened buddhas have never included non-Buddhist teachers, and they never will..! Just how you propose to work Ramana Maharshi into the lineage of Buddhas is really puzzling - and it is also impossible and will not and cannot happen.

 

Has Ramana Maharshi ever himself claimed to be a Buddha? I don't think so...has he ever taught Dzogchen? Or Mahayana? Or Prasangika-Madhyamaka or any Buddhist philosophy whatsoever? If he was never involved with any Buddhist teaching, how in the world could he be a Buddha? This is nothing but one of those really bizarre things that uninformed people dream up.

Hey Arf Arf

I never specifically said that Ramana was a Dzogchen master. Can't you read? Great, another quasi Buddhist that can't read and jumps to erroneous conclusions. I am not trying to work Ramana into any of kind lineage or box.

 

I agree with you. If it looks like dogshit, smells like dogshit, tastes like dogshit, then it must be dogshit!

 

Lineage of Dzogchen? Everybody knows?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonpa_Shenrab_Miwoche

"According to Bon tradition, Tonpa Shenrab predates Padmasambhava and the Buddha Sakyamuni. "

 

And you are saying that Ramana was not a perfectly enlightened being. Well, how would you know? You must know him well.

 

You should fit right at home here with Alwaysoff and the rest of the compassionless dogmatic scholars. I wonder how long before they turn on you and bite your tail off.

 

And please, you don't have to PM me to tell me this:

That is the most hilarious, comical, queer, ridiculous, crazy, astonishing, amazing, wondrously foolish and stupid thing I've ever read,...!!! (along with all the rest of your post)

 

Everyone knows who the Dzogchen masters are - Padmasambhava, Vimalamitra, Shrisimha, Vairocana, Garab Dorje, Mipham, Rongzom, Longchenpa - how extraordinary for you to suddenly start saying that any random person from utterly alien traditions are also suddenly Dzogchen masters! Hahahah ! It's lovely! As in, wonderfully comical! I suppose Jesus and Mohammad are Dzogchen masters too now! I suppose the Pope! And any other person you care to name! Hahaha! I can't reply to that thread for wahtever reason hence messaging you but you are SO off the mark! So utterly wrong..! It's incredible...how wrong can you get..!! Malcolm is absolutely right to admonish Adriano Clemente for inserting that quote of a non Buddhist - it has nothing to do with Buddhism or Dzogchen! And how predictable for you to defend it....Gosh, it's astonishing how far folks can get it wrong...really amazing

 

Here is something to think about.. Until you understand that an enlightened being can appear as many different people throughout time you will be stuck inside your little box of dogshit (er, I mean dogma).

 

Now go ahead and derail the the rest of this thread, like Alwaysoff always does when he is feeding his hungry ghosts and can't expand his vista of knowledge beyond what pandits hold to be dear and true.

 

[RongzomFan]

Christian_Ice.

 

Stop trolling Buddhists.