Ramana Quote does not belong in CN Norbu's latest book

[RongzomFan]

And you are saying that Ramana was not a perfectly enlightened being. Well, how would you know? You must know him well.

 

Are you saying Ramana was a perfectly enlightened being?

 

Can you name 1 terma revealed by Ramana?

Edited November 13, 2013 by RongzomFan

[jogi secreto]

Hey Arf Arf

I never specifically said that Ramana was a Dzogchen master. Can't you read? Great, another quasi Buddhist that can't read and jumps to erroneous conclusions. I am not trying to work Ramana into any of kind lineage or box.

 

I agree with you. If it looks like dogshit, smells like dogshit, tastes like dogshit, then it must be dogshit!

 

Lineage of Dzogchen? Everybody knows?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonpa_Shenrab_Miwoche

"According to Bon tradition, Tonpa Shenrab predates Padmasambhava and the Buddha Sakyamuni. "

 

And you are saying that Ramana was not a perfectly enlightened being. Well, how would you know? You must know him well.

 

You should fit right at home here with Alwaysoff and the rest of the compassionless dogmatic scholars. I wonder how long before they turn on you and bite your tail off.

 

And please, you don't have to PM me to tell me this:

 

 

Here is something to think about.. Until you understand that an enlightened being can appear as many different people throughout time you will be stuck inside your little box of dogshit (er, I mean dogma).

 

Now go ahead and derail the the rest of this thread, like Alwaysoff always does when he is feeding his hungry ghosts and can't expand his vista of knowledge beyond what pandits hold to be dear and true.

 

I did use over-the-top language before, sorry about that. There is no need to be like that, but as for this issue, it is as simple as black and white - Ramayana Das [sp.?] or whomever Hindu philosopher is what he is, and that is not a Dzogchen lama. I mean, how many ways do you need to hear it.

 

And how do I know he is not a Buddha? He is clearly not a Buddha - are you seriously going to tell me he was a Buddha. Well, no. Ramayana Dasaman [sic?] was never a Buddha. Sorry!

 

I know this will make you think, "Is he saying that there is no difference between a perfectly enlightened being and a Buddha? Is he saying that there is no such thing as an enlightened being who is not a Buddha? Is he saying that enlightenment and Buddhahood are one and precisely the same thing?" Indeed, I am. Why? Because it is so. And I couldn't change that even if I wanted to!

 

And yes I have heard of the latest on Bon and Buddhism, I have heard of those folks you mentioned.

Edited November 13, 2013 by jogi secreto

[jogi secreto]

Actually, later Tibetan Buddhists said tantra is equivalent to Madhyamaka in terms of view.

 

 

Nope. Rongzom is a critic of Madhyamaka.

 

Rongzom says that while Madhyamaka subscribes to 2 truths, tantra subscribes to 1 truth.

Right...let's leave aside Rongzom's take on Madhyamaka for the time being.

 

All Tibetan Buddhist schools accept and follow the general scheme of three vehicles, namely Hinayana, Mahayana, and Vajrayana - each one superior to the former in efficacy of leading to enlightenment. In particular, the sublime Nyingma school follows a 9 vehicle system based on the same principle. Therefore, all of Tibetan Buddhism accepts and knows that tantra is superior to sutra - just as all Mahayanists know that Mahayana is superior to Hinayana.

 

Therefore, I was surprised by your reasoning for liking Rongzom, since that particular quality is shared with every Tibetan Buddhist! Nevertheless, Rongzom is indeed the Great One and it would be good to translate more of his works into English.

[RongzomFan]

Therefore, I was surprised by your reasoning for liking Rongzom, since that particular quality is shared with every Tibetan Buddhist!

 

well actually you yourself correlated madhyamaka with dzogchen.

 

Rongzom would not agree with you.

[jogi secreto]

well actually you yourself correlated madhyamaka with dzogchen.

 

Rongzom would not agree with you.

I'm talking about the characteristic of viewing mantra as superior to sutra, which you cited as your reasoning for being a fan of Rongzom Which, it occurred to me, was a funny reason because all of Tibetan Buddhism shares that same view In any case, the important thing is that Rongzom the Great Pandita, the Good Dharma Lord, is great, great and profoundly great and I am very happy that you appreciate him!

[yabyum24]

Just out of interest, and because I don't know the answer...

 

... if it looks like a Dzogchenpa isn't going to attain the rainbow body, what's the plan B?

[Simple_Jack]

If someone is unable to achieve liberation in this life, plan "B" would be liberation in the bardo. If they can't manage that, plan "C" would be liberation in a nirmanakaya buddhafield.

[RongzomFan]

I'm talking about the characteristic of viewing mantra as superior to sutra, which you cited as your reasoning for being a fan of Rongzom Which, it occurred to me, was a funny reason because all of Tibetan Buddhism shares that same view In any case, the important thing is that Rongzom the Great Pandita, the Good Dharma Lord, is great, great and profoundly great and I am very happy that you appreciate him!

 

Except you keep contradicting yourself, because you correlate Dzogchen with Madhyamaka (sutra).

[Tibetan_Ice]

Are you saying Ramana was a perfectly enlightened being?

 

Can you name 1 terma revealed by Ramana?

Alwaysoff,

So nice of you to come back here after a hard days trolling in the Islam threads. You're so lucky to have a place where you can breed hatred for others and feed your hungry ghosts. Breed and Feed.. has a nice ring to it, don't you think?

 

So your criteria for enlightenment is that one has to reveal a terma?

 

That's just about the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

 

And yes, I can reveal one terma that Ramana has revealed. Ramana has revealed to me that he exists in a bubble that comes out of the area just below the navel, that he is timeless, still alive, has always been and that I can go visit him any time I want. That is one great treasure to realize. Maybe if you practiced more you would realize this too.

 

TI

[RongzomFan]

So your criteria for enlightenment is that one has to reveal a terma?

 

For a start, yes.

[RongzomFan]

That's just about the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

 

Then that's another reason why you are completely clueless.

[Tibetan_Ice]

Tibetan_Ice, on 14 Nov 2013 - 22:24, said:

So your criteria for enlightenment is that one has to reveal a terma?

 

For a start, yes.

 

Alwaysoff,

So are you saying the Shakyamuni Buddha wasn't enlightened?

 

According to your logic Buddha should have revealed some termas. Could you please tell me which termas he revealed? References, links..

 

[RongzomFan]

Alwaysoff,

So are you saying the Shakyamuni Buddha wasn't enlightened?

 

According to your logic Buddha should have revealed some termas. Could you please tell me which termas he revealed? References, links..

 

Shakyamuni was the supreme nirmanakaya who set the wheel of Buddhadharma into motion.

 

I didn't believe that until I learned that one organically sees a seated Buddha in certain practices.

[Tibetan_Ice]

Concerning the original post, here is some news. Malcolm obtained a response to the question of why Ramana's quote was in Norbu's book. Basically, Clemente blames it on someone else..

 

http://www.vajracakra.com/viewtopic.php?p=16276#p16276

 

Adriano Clemente contacted me recently because he was made aware of this discussion via another board (Tao Bums). He wanted me to clarify that he did not pick the epigraph to this book, Elio Guarisco did. However, despite his admiration for Ramana, he is fully cognizant that Ramana's view and the view of Dzogchen are of course not the same. Even so, he feels that Ramana's view is unique, based upon some discussions he had with direct disciples of Ramana's in S. India.

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"If one is free from the activities of samsara and nirvana
how can there be anything apart from Dzogchen?"
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FYI.