Tip on how to do enquiry

[Jetsun]

Through most of our lives when we get asked a question we have been taught to try to figure the answer out on the regular level of mind of thoughts and ideas, but when doing spiritual enquiry like the Ramana enquiry "who am I?" that is not where you are going to find the answer. Rather the purpose of the enquiry is to try to see something which is already there which you haven't noticed, so it isn't like figuring out a puzzle or necessarily attaining an understanding, it's about becoming open to what is already happening, seeing what is already present but have missed or ignored.

 

I wish I had heard that years ago so thought I would share incase it helps anyone.

 

[RongzomFan]

Ramana's self-inquiry is basically a confusing version of Candrakīrti's chariot analysis.

 

Candrakīrti, in ''Madhyamakāvatāra'' VI.151., comments:

 

"It is not asserted that a chariot is something other than its parts.

It is not something that is not other, nor does it possess them.

It does not exist in the parts, nor do the parts exist in it.

It is neither their mere collection nor the shape—thus is the analogy."

[Tibetan_Ice]

Ramana's self-inquiry is basically a confusing version of Candrakīrti's chariot analysis.

 

Candrakīrti, in ''Madhyamakāvatāra'' VI.151., comments:

 

"It is not asserted that a chariot is something other than its parts.

It is not something that is not other, nor does it possess them.

It does not exist in the parts, nor do the parts exist in it.

It is neither their mere collection nor the shape—thus is the analogy."

 

Twisting again Alwaysoff?

 

Your quote is an attempt at intellectualizing emptiness, or the role of conglomerates/skandas, is a task that always falls short to pandits.

 

Ramana's practice, which is very similar to Nisargadatta's abiding in the I AM is a bonafied practice, not some philosophic concatenation.

 

Read it for yourself:

 

http://bhagavan-ramana.org/selfenquirypractice.html

 

from: Be As You Are: The Teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi

by David Godman

 

Beginners in self-enquiry were advised by Sri Ramana to put their attention on the inner feeling of ‘I’ and to hold that feeling as long as possible. They would be told that if their attention was distracted by other thoughts they should revert to awareness of the ‘I’-thought whenever they became aware that their attention had wandered. He suggested various aids to assist this process- one could ask oneself ‘Who am I?’ or ‘Where does this I come from?’- but the ultimate aim was to be continuously aware of the ‘I’ which assumes that it is responsible for all the activities of the body and the mind.

 

 

 

In the early stages of practice attention to the feeling ‘I’ is a mental activity which takes the form of a thought or a perception. As the practice develops, the thought ‘I’ gives way to a subjectively experienced feeling of ‘I’, and when this feeling ceases to connect and identify with thoughts and objects, it completely vanishes. What remains is an experience of being in which the sense of individuality has temporarily ceased to operate. The experience may be intermittent at first but with repeated practice it becomes easier and easier to reach and maintain. When self-enquiry reaches this level there is an effortless awareness of being in which individual effort is no longer possible since the ‘I’ who makes the effort has temporarily ceased to exist. It is not Self-realisation since the ‘I’-thought periodically reasserts itself but it is the highest level of practice. Repeated experience of this state of being weakens and destroys the Vasanas (mental tendencies) which cause the '‘I’-thought to rise, and, when their hold has been sufficiently weakened, the power of the Self destroys the residual tendencies so completely that the ‘I’-thought never rises again. This is the final and irreversible state of Self-realisation.

 

 

 

This practice of Self-attention or awareness of the ‘I’-thought is a gentle technique, which bypasses the usual repressive methods of controlling the mind. It is not an exercise in concentration, nor does it aim at suppressing thoughts; it merely invokes awareness of the source from which the mind springs. The method and goal of self-enquiry is to abide in the source of the mind and to be aware of what one really is by withdrawing attention and interest from what one is not. In the early stages effort in the form of transferring attention from the thoughts to the thinker is essential, but once awareness of the ‘I’-feeling has been firmly established, further effort is counter-productive. From then on it is more a process of being than doing, of effortless being rather than an effort to be.

 

 

 

Being what one already is is effortless since beingness is always present and always experienced. On the other hand, pretending to be what one is not (i.e. the body and the mind) requires continuous mental effort even though the effort is nearly always at a subconscious level. It therefore follows that in the higher stages of self-enquiry effort takes attention away from the experience of being while the cessation of mental effort reveals it. Ultimately, the Self is not discovered as a result of doing anything, but only by being. As Sri Ramana Maharshi himself once remarked:

 

 

 

‘Do not meditate – be!

 

 

 

Do not think that you are – be!

 

 

 

Don’t think about being – you are!’

 

 

 

Self-enquiry should not be regarded as a meditation practice that takes place at certain hours and in certain positions; it should continue throughout one's waking hours, irrespective of what one is doing. Sri Ramana Maharshi saw no conflict between working and self-enquiry and he maintained that with a little practice it could be done under any circumstances. He did sometimes say that regular periods of formal practice were good for beginners, but he never advocated long periods of sitting meditation and he always showed his disapproval when any of his devotees expressed a desire to give up their mundane activities in favour of a meditative life.

 

 

 

Further, Ramana's explanation that as the ego dissolves into the heart centre is in keeping with the secret Kati Channel from the heart to the eyes.

 

http://sri-ramana-maharshi.blogspot.ca/2008/04/role-of-heart-centre-in-self.html

 

 

The role of the Heart-centre in Self-realisation

A few days ago someone asked me online: ‘What prompted young Venkataramana to think that he was about to die?’

I replied: ‘When the ego starts to sink into the Heart, a point is reached when the ego becomes aware of what is happening. The reaction is fear, panic, and sometimes an awareness that death is close at hand. Usually, this causes the ‘I’-thought to rise again in a kind of blind panic, but in Bhagavan’s case, he was mature enough and ready enough to allow the extinction process to happen naturally.’

I was then asked to substantiate this with a written source, so I sent the following reply:

 

My previous comment is derived from descriptions given to me by Lakshmana Swamy and Saradamma. Saradamma had this experience prior to her own realisation and afterwards she made an elaborate diagram that described the process of the mind going back into the Heart, or attempting to go there. The diagram and the comments can be found on pages 194 and 195 of

No Mind - I am the Self

.

 

>

>Saradamma described a small hole in the heart or Heart-centre that the mind had to withdraw into for realisation to take place, saying that when this happened realisation resulted. In the book I summarised what she was telling me about this diagram in the following words:

‘As she was explaining this diagram to me Saradamma said that when the mind is just outside the opening one can feel a strong sucking force pulling it towards the hole. She says that the mind is afraid of this force, and that when it feels it, it usually moves away from the hole and tries to escape to the brain. The mind has good reason to be afraid: when it goes through the hole, the Self completely destroys it and Self-realisation results.’

Saradamma’s own experiences of having her mind go near the Heart and then jump in fear back to the brain can be found on pages 170 and 171 of the same book.

 

 

 

 

You can catch glimpses at the heart center through the kati channel. You can experience true rigpa.

 

 

The Natural Clear Light is concentrated in the hollow cavity in our

physical heart and then it overflows up the Kati channel or smooth white

nerve that is like a hollow tube of crystal. Originating in the physical heart,

it passes up the membrane of the brain and dividing into two, it terminates

in the two eyeballs. This Kati channel and the eyeballs represent the third

and fourth lamps, whereas the heart is the second lamp and the Natural

Clear Light is the first. This inner light overflowing by way of the Kati,

emerges through the two doorways of the eyeballs. These doorways at the

end of the channel are shaped like the flowers of the flax plant (zar-ma).

This is not the usual vision apparatus of our optic nerves and retina, etc.

Although visions come through the Kati channel and appear to manifest in

front of us, they actually arise from our interior natural light. These visions

are not perceived with the normal physical eye. This is inner vision, but it

manifests to us as an external vision.

 

...

 

How do we

unite and integrate these three? Gaze into the empty sky and keep the mind

in the Natural State. The Kati nerve is a tube like hollow channel. By means

of the wisdom winds (ye-shes kyi rlung), the Natural State (rig-pa) comes

up through the channel from the heart - but this is not ordinary psychic

energy (rlung). The eyes are kept fixed on empty space. We can no longer

distinguish external and internal space. We do not have to do anything

special, just keep in the Natural State and be stable in this. There is no

visualizing anything or thinking anything. By just keeping in the Natural

State we integrate internal and external space.

 

 

And if you look backwards through the eyes, you will see a sea of colors and light. But your kati channel has to be clear.

 

This "psychic liquid light" which pushes out through the eyes is found all over the body in small quantities. But, there is the largest pool which resides in the heart space. This psychic liquid light is immense love/joy/bliss and has the feeling of being, the feeling of "I AM", the feeling that you "are everything". Both Nisargadatta and Ramana point to that. Their methods point to that. Just focus on the feeling of "I AM". Who am I?

 

 

Here is an interesting little video that someone pointed out to me.

Have a look.

While I don't agree with his final result, his path is interesting. Eventually you will see that there is a part in the path where there is a light in a prism, frozen and shining. The five Bon lights.. ?

 

 

TI

Edited October 3, 2013 by Tibetan_Ice

[Aetherous]

In my experience with the "who am I" method, it's good to use "neti neti" (which means something akin to "not this, not that").

If something is assumed to be the true Self, with neti neti, you consciously identify it as something other than Self (because it's being perceived and is an object of awareness, not awareness itself).

Try to become aware of awareness right now. If you think you can do it, observe what you're aware of, and realize that you're perceiving it. It's something that can come and go, and be let go of...so it's not the Self. In my opinion, it's a subtle form of mind. So what masquerades as awareness or Self is also something to say "not this" about. Deny all false Self-identifications.

Ramana spoke of a time when he truly and honestly asked the question to himself...when you deeply wonder about it and not just use "who am I" as a practice, then it's said to really be effective. I view this honest form of self enquiry as eventually happening spontaneously. It's not something a person can just try to do. You can't force yourself to be genuinely curious at the deepest level about something...but asking the question will plant the seed for that genuineness which will sprout on its own at some later time.

So I say, just keep doing neti-neti on things that appear as the answer. This is just my view, from when I practiced it years ago.

edit: my apologies I think I misunderstood the purpose of this thread; I thought it was asking for tips on how to do Ramana's self enquiry.

Edited October 3, 2013 by turtle shell

[Jetsun]

All tips are good and helpful, I shouldn't have suggested there is a wrong way of doing it because all that is really required is that you are sincere. I was trying to highlight that the answer to the enquiry is already here, already present, yet it isn't an answer that can be grasped with the regular mind. What the master does is "point out" something, so it isn't about creating something or even figuring something out for an attainment or achievement, it is about recognizing what is already present but we somehow miss.

 

Its not only about Ramana there are other methods and questions of enquiry, one of the most powerful questions for me at the moment is "who is it that wants to wake up?" Because it isn't your ego patterns and conflicts that want to wake up, they aren't concerned with anything except their own agenda. So if there is a part of you who wants to wake up not dominated by the ego then instead of looking outwards to try to fund the answer turn it around to try see who is asking the question.

[RongzomFan]

There are only 2 things:

 

conceptualizing mind

nowness

[Boy]

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Edited November 3, 2013 by Boy

[RongzomFan]

Recognize Nowness is overlaid by the conceptualizing mind

[Jetsun]

Recognize Nowness is overlaid by the conceptualizing mind

 

In my experience the conceptualizing mind arises within "nowness" not over it,

[Jetsun]

Actually, it is EXACTLY your "ego patterns and conflicts" that wants to wake up! That's the secret right there.. indirectly ;-) Don't mistake the ego for being a simple "egotistic" mechanism. How can you know what is wrong when you don't know what is right? For all intents and purposes there are wrong ways of doing this. I cannot see relativistic, post modern thinking be of any help, for example. Go deeper! Kindly, Daniel

 

I will ponder on what you say but that isn't the way I perceive it at the moment, perhaps that will change. But in my current experience it is perceived as something else wants to wake up, while my ego patterns are only concerned with things like conflict, asserting themselves, self glory etc, whereas there is a silence or spaciousness behind all of that and permeating all of that, which is the only constant in the whole thing. The ego patterns try to claim my identity but they are always impermanent so they can't be "I", so for them to wake up means their destruction in the recognition that they are not me and don't have any constant reality beyond thought, so I don't see how it is them who want to wake up.

 

Although ultimately there is only one thing so to make a separation with your ego patterns is ultimately a false distinction, but until things are perceived from that oneness permanently it can be useful to make the distinction because one of the tricks is that the ego patterns try to claim credit for the whole spiritual process to try to elevate themselves and give themselves more reality than they are due, so at the moment I don't get anything out of giving them credit.

[Boy]

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Edited November 3, 2013 by Boy

[Boy]

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Edited November 3, 2013 by Boy

[Jetsun]

I didn't see the point in furthering the discussion with the dynamic you were trying to create and with the assumptions you were making

 

In reality it is incredibly simple, the ground of being is right here, all we have to do is be it, just be. When you do the enquiry "who am I?" the answer is presented to you instantly in a gap of open awareness of not knowing which is beyond all conceptual ideas. The issue isn't that it is difficult to find, it is that it is too easy, too quick, too simple that we miss it until someone points it out to us.

[Boy]

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Edited November 3, 2013 by Boy

[Jetsun]

I made one assumption: you want to find the "I". I know that you don't approve of dynamics, but it was worth a shot. I won't comment on that last paragraph, other than that must mean that you have just helped a lot of people to enlightenment, which I find highly unlikely. Perhaps someone would like to testify?

 

I don't mean that I was giving official pointing out instructions with what I wrote, that can only be done in person with a teacher. The next best thing would be to watch a video of a teacher and pay attention to the silence.

 

I'm not even really looking for the "I" any more as I have seen searching for it is an action which takes you away from it, at least that is the perception. The inquiry can be a way to bring you back out of the conceptual though when old habits are asserting themselves.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Jetsun

[Boy]

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Edited November 3, 2013 by Boy

[Wynn]

seems like most inquiry is just people 'thinking 'bout stuff', ie. constantly changing nonsense

 

the apple falls when its ripe, only God ripens apples, impatient watchers surely don't

[Wynn]

words which come to mind ... curiosity, sincerity, honesty, earnestness, intuition, discernment ,,, looking within

 

but ... who is curious, who is sincere, who is honest, who is earnest, who intuits, who discerns ???

an unrelenting, thorough examination of all thoughts and sensations may likely be helpful ....

 

 

are thoughts true?

[Jetsun]

are thoughts true?

 

They usually occur after something has happened, so there is always the possibility that the thought is untrue because things might have changed

[RongzomFan]

seems like most inquiry is just people 'thinking 'bout stuff', ie. constantly changing nonsense

 

yup

[Jetsun]

 

yup

Not really, its about asking a question without assuming you already know the answer. One of the main issues about the about the egoic state of consciousness is that it thinks it already knows, knows almost everything, but when you do a bit of enquiry you see that most of what it knows is assumptions. Unless you question you will never see unless life gives you a direct shock which contradicts your beliefs, but I understand it probably isn't a popular exercise because it means seeing that you don't know and are wrong about a lot of things, and most of us will do anything to avoid that.

[RongzomFan]

Ramana's self-inquiry is the equivalent of newbie Candrakīrti's chariot analysis.

 

Candrakīrti, in ''Madhyamakāvatāra'' VI.151., comments:

 

"It is not asserted that a chariot is something other than its parts.

It is not something that is not other, nor does it possess them.

It does not exist in the parts, nor do the parts exist in it.

It is neither their mere collection nor the shape—thus is the analogy."

 

 

Its certainly not a direct introduction to the "fourth time", as Dudjom Rinpoche puts it.

[RongzomFan]

I don't think Ramana gave any sort of direct introduction.

[Jetsun]

Ramana's self-inquiry is the equivalent of newbie Candrakīrti's chariot analysis.

 

Candrakīrti, in ''Madhyamakāvatāra'' VI.151., comments:

 

"It is not asserted that a chariot is something other than its parts.

It is not something that is not other, nor does it possess them.

It does not exist in the parts, nor do the parts exist in it.

It is neither their mere collection nor the shape—thus is the analogy."

 

 

Its certainly not a direct introduction to the "fourth time", as Dudjom Rinpoche puts it.

 

Ramana focuses more on the "I" thought rather than analysing the different parts like Candrakirti. But I am not talking only about the way Ramana did. I am surprised you are so down on enquiry though when Dzogchen texts like "The Flight of the Garuda" are full of it:

 

First, what is the origin of this mind? Is it a function of external

phenomena- mountains, rocks, water, trees and celestial breezes_

or is it independent of them? Asking yourself where the mind

comes from, investigate this possibility thoroughly.

Alternatively, consider whether or not the mind originates from the

reproductive fluids of our parents. If so, enquire into the process by

which it emerges. Continue this enquiry until it is exhausted and

you admit the mind has no origin.

Then secondly, answer the question "Where is the mind now?" Is it

in the upper or lower part of your body, in your sense organs, in

your lungs or your heart? If it lodges in your heart, in what part of

the heart? What is its colour and shape? Thoroughly investigate the

present location of the mind and its characteristics until you are certain

that they are not to be found.

Finally, examine the movement of the mind. When it moves, does

it pass through the organs of the senses? In its momentary embrace

of external objects, is there physical contact? Is it only a mental

function, or are both body and mind involved together? Investigate

the process of perception.

At the time of death, what occurs to the mind? How does it leave

the body? where does it exist? Consider these questions and all their

ramifications in detail.

Persevere in your careful enquiry, examining the mind until you reach a

positive conclusion that it is empty, pure and utterly inexpressible,

that it is a non entity and free of birth and death, coming and going

-p86 Flight of the Garuda

Edited October 17, 2013 by Jetsun

[Jetsun]

I don't think Ramana gave any sort of direct introduction.

 

Not in any formal way, just being in his silence was his introduction and main teaching