Lower back pain in meditation

[Rara]

I'm experiencing pain and stiffness at the moment when I sit in meditation. I'm wondering whether sitting upright with no support just causes tension? Either way, it's very distracting and not too pleasant.

 

When I then consciously slouch I feel better...but then it's like I'm doing more stretching exercises rather than meditating. Simple breath meditation just seems to be harder for me these days than say 6 months to a year ago.

 

Perhaps my back is just shaped differently. Long car journeys in an erect seat also hurts a lot after a couple of hours.

 

Does anybody have any clue as to what this could be?

 

The doctor once said that it's just because I'm used to slouching and that I need to train my back muscles up by doing yoga exercises but since then, I've been more mindful of posture yet still it seems to be a problem.

[silent thunder]

My wife has trauma in her spine from breaking her t-7 and coccyx about 20 years ago.

She had immense suffering from back pain, until she threw herself into ecstatic dance and yoga.

Once her core was strengthened, all back pain diminished.

 

These days she still practices Yoga, briefly each morning to maintain her flexibility and strength.

She only notices pain return if she stops for a while.

[Bearded Dragon]

I see that wing chun is in your interests. The way that we train our wing chun helps immensely with this sort of stuff. Think of energy going up through your spine, and at the same time relax the muscles around your spine. You want to feel that your spine is elongating. I find that while sitting down it works well to think of inflating your spine like a balloon. Do it either from the bottom or in parts. Eventually you can just do the whole thing.

 

The effect is that the space between your vertebrae gets larger, and the load gets taken off your muscles because your posture allows your spine to do all the work.

 

Play around with it.

[Rara]

@silent thunder Yeah that's the thing. Never had any injury to noticeably do this to my back but yeah, the yoga stuff did help at the time so maybe I should start doing this again.

 

@Bearded Dragon This is what confuses me because yes, I do lots of Wing Chun. The only explanation must be slouching when at my laptop and on my sofa and possibly trouble dealing with stress and I do tense up a lot. I still struggle with the whole keeping relaxed and alert at the same time concept.

[ChiDragon]

When I then consciously slouch I feel better...but then it's like I'm doing more stretching exercises rather than meditating. Simple breath meditation just seems to be harder for me these days than say 6 months to a year ago.

 

Does anybody have any clue as to what this could be?

Your problem with breathing is most definitely cause you to feel slouch due to hypoxia(lack of oxygen).

 

The only explanation must be slouching when at my laptop and on my sofa and possibly trouble dealing with stress and I do tense up a lot. I still struggle with the whole keeping relaxed and alert at the same time concept.

The keyboard on the laptop is much narrower than the regular one. Especially when you type on a sofa, it may cause your shoulders to tense up with stiffness.

 

The former is a more serious problem then the latter, I would suggest that you work on your simple breathing problem first. Also, try to work on your laptop on a desk which will give you less stress on the shoulders. I would lean forward a little bit while sitting during meditation, as suggested by some practitioners, to avoid a stiff back. If you have the back too straight or lean back, your upper body tends to fight the vertical for balance and that is very stressful.

 

 

[soaring crane]

Note that aboriginal humans never sit like that. They squat.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

edit: 'aboriginal' in the sense of original people (not necessarily 'Australian Aborigines'). Look for videos of tribes of the Amazon.

 

I really believe now that we're built to either lounge (lie down), kneel, squat, stand, walk or run.

 

I no longer sit in meditation. If I sit, it's in half-lotus on a folded blanket and I move - spinal circling or snaking moves, gently, maybe imperceptibly, but consciously. The very least I'll do is breathe through my spine and not hold back any resulting movement.

 

I don't understand the value of sitting motionlessly (anymore).

 

No judgment intended.

Edited October 16, 2013 by soaring crane

[ChiDragon]

Indeed...!!!. That would put oneself in a very dynamic mode for balance. I would rather sit like that, at least, with my head lean forward to pass the vertical....

[h.uriahr]

Lower back pain may mean weak abs.

[fluidity]

Anterior pelvic tilt or kyphosis (upper cross syndrome)

It's due to the way we use computers and sit down a lot. It is an adaptation of your body to your habits which unfortunately causes major harm. I would put anterior pelvic tilt on the same grade of harm as smoking or obesity, it is that bad. The effect is hidden to the person until they realise it is the source of their anxieties in every waking moment of their life.

 

 

When you first open your lower Dan Tien and feel air flooding into a place you did not even know existed, and the satisfaction of being at complete Rest while standing up and breathing altogether effortless, you will cognize the nature of your issue.

It will need a complete change in lifestyle, let me tell you that. As cited previously ecstatic dance and yoga are the best ways I know of with regards to counteracting this. Two to eight hours a day of seated computer use is a lot of energyXtime to reverse. Fifteen minutes of stretching exercises may be stated quite succintly as an exercise in futility. You will need to move the hip region for hours every day until the neural habits are reconfigured, this may take a few months but every single day you will wake up sleeping better and better, breathing and feeling happier, confidenter, relaxeder, awesomer, which unlike perhaps a lot of weightlifting, makes this a very pleasant journey!

Aligning the hips instantly burns off a lot of karma as anxiety ceases to have an issue on you. Then after the dan tien is opened, one may look towards a continuous 4-D fluid posture, with the goal being that the Dan Tien is kept always open for the overwhelming majority of the time except where not necessary.

When standing up, you should feel like you are sitting down, on what feels like your butt and passing through to your heels. Knees bent and relaxed, glutes and abs supporting the body with the body sitting on the glutes primarily. There is an experience of being light on one's feet and agile and completely ready for any situation, and unshakable groundedness. Think Drunken Master Kung Fu.

From here it's a one way ticket to superhuman ability.

[soaring crane]

A few months ago, at a Feldenkrais workshop,

 

mmmMMMmmm Feldenkrais

[Seeker of Wisdom]

I don't know much about fixing issues like this, but I have this advice:

 

1) Try gentle yoga asanas.

2) Meditate lying down.

[soaring crane]

I think I'm in love.

 

haha. I've been to three Feldenkrais weekend workshops, and really enjoyed them. I have a few good books and have incorporated some of the principles into my routines but can't replicate on my own the experience of being guided through the motions by a gentle instructor.

 

It's quite well-know here in Germany

[xor]

Taiji is also good for back pain. I've heard many times from someone they got rid off back pain just doing some taichi even if not that serious(once or twice a week). I would guess other internal martial arts would do much the same?

Edited October 17, 2013 by xor

[Rara]

It will need a complete change in lifestyle, let me tell you that. As cited previously ecstatic dance and yoga are the best ways I know of with regards to counteracting this. Two to eight hours a day of seated computer use is a lot of energyXtime to reverse. Fifteen minutes of stretching exercises may be stated quite succintly as an exercise in futility.

 

I feel inclined to agree. I took up meditation practice to help me with my tense life. My career has devastating effects on my body and meditation for 15-45 minutes a day now only provides some temporary stretch to an already screwed up area of my body. But I do feel I've caught this early and can rid myself of it before it becomes a lifelong problem. But it's like you say, maybe I need to leave the office stuff to the bear minimum!

 

Shoot, the leg pain to me is way worse than the back pain. The back pain I alleviate by sitting up straight and bending into the hips. Are you doing burmese or a lotus posture?

 

Half-lotus...full was tugging on my knee haha. Man, I'm a wreck!

[Rara]

Lower back pain may mean weak abs.

 

Yes, that's what my doc said...weak core and all. Hence the yoga exercises he recommended. But I feel that I'm a shirt that gets crease daily and the yoga is my iron. So I iron myself out daily only to crease myself up more the next day. The issue being, I only run the iron over, rather than doing a thorough job due to time constraints!

[marcus2013]

I feel inclined to agree. I took up meditation practice to help me with my tense life. My career has devastating effects on my body and meditation for 15-45 minutes a day now only provides some temporary stretch to an already screwed up area of my body. But I do feel I've caught this early and can rid myself of it before it becomes a lifelong problem. But it's like you say, maybe I need to leave the office stuff to the bear minimum!

 

Hi Rara,

 

What are you going to do then ? Change job for one that doesn't involve being in an office ? Nevertheless, there are lots of other devastating factors in jobs that aren't done in offices. Summarizing pros/cons an office shouldn't be that bad. Right ?

[Rara]

Hi Rara,

 

What are you going to do then ? Change job for one that doesn't involve being in an office ? Nevertheless, there are lots of other devastating factors in jobs that aren't done in offices. Summarizing pros/cons an office shouldn't be that bad. Right ?

 

Perhaps I should explain...

 

I work as a booking agent (office) but am also a performer and marketing guy. The latter are very physical and require me to shoot out of the office and run for lots of trains and busses.

 

E.G of my day: Wake up, eat...do bookings behind computer for 2 hours...rush out of house to get bus, do 4 hour job on feet with high energy...come home...hit the office for another hour...rush out and travel to evening performance job...come home late at night (more travel) eat dinner...be too tired to do anything to head straight to bed on full stomach and watch an hour of telly. Then repeat.

 

However, at quiet times, I can regulate myself like a normal person I can have a very nicely paced meditative time, so this is fine. I'm just dealing with such issues right now as so many opportunities have all come at once!

[marcus2013]

Perhaps I should explain...

 

I work as a booking agent (office) but am also a performer and marketing guy. The latter are very physical and require me to shoot out of the office and run for lots of trains and busses.

 

E.G of my day: Wake up, eat...do bookings behind computer for 2 hours...rush out of house to get bus, do 4 hour job on feet with high energy...come home...hit the office for another hour...rush out and travel to evening performance job...come home late at night (more travel) eat dinner...be too tired to do anything to head straight to bed on full stomach and watch an hour of telly. Then repeat.

 

I see... Then I understand the "devastating" you are talking about and the shirt metaphore. I can see there's probably not much time for good dietary habits either. You probably know this but, please be careful specially with the food. With that lifestyle you can deplete your nutrient levels quite quickly and it's not easy to refill them (it's not as easy as taking supplements).

[de_paradise]

I dont do much sitting meditation; Buddha did most of his meditation laying down. Avoids the pain of my lower back (messed up due to years of sports abuse and poor posture and the discomfort of qi sensitivity. If you tend to fall asleep, then sitting is better. If you can stay awake and reclined then laying down is more relaxing and hence deeper meditations. If I do sit, then I have a pillow supporting my lower back and a wall supporting the pillow. Meditation is about your mind not your posture. If you saw me meditate you would think I was sleeping, completely immobile with slow breath, laying on a comfy bed or sofa. Moving around messes up the meditation, maybe its more dynamic but a relatively shallow meditation is less beneficial because after you move, your qi body has to readjust and the qi cycling then takes time re-accelerate. What this means is less gets cleared and cleaned and opened on a subtle body level if you are moving. You are better off in a position where you do not move an inch for at least 30 min. You are better off very relaxed but not sleeping.

[marcus2013]

 

Rara, here you go. A colleague recommended these exercises:

 

 

R V do you know anything for sitting at the computer ?

 

Thanks

[marcus2013]

My favorite lady, Martha Peterson here. Scroll down to "Pain free sitting for the office worker." 1 & 2. Those moves work great.

http://www.essentialsomatics.com/index.php?/hanna-somatics-learning-center/hanna-somatics-videos

 

Also, I googled "Free Feldenkrais lessons" and noticed a couple of interesting MP3 titles. (Haven't listened to them.)

http://utahfeldenkrais.org/blog/free-feldenkrais/free-feldenkrais-mp3/

 

"Scanning Yourself Deeply" and "Eliminate Back Pain While Sitting. Session #1: Turning Right and Left" look of interest.

 

Good luck.

 

Awesome!!! Thanks!!

[Brian]

I would also recommend sitting on a "yoga ball" rather than a chair...

[Rara]

 

I can see there's probably not much time for good dietary habits either.

Funnily enough I manage ok...I make a big effort to cook in bulk and snack on fruits and nuts. Fresh meat from butchers, homemade meals with lots of veg (hence the midnight dinners as opposed to grabbing a burger on the way home!

 

But thank you all for your responses so far...I certainly feel more lie-down on floor meditations and the links above will help me through this. I realise that I've been quite dogmatic with my methods of meditation. Time to adjust!

[ion]

I'm experiencing pain and stiffness at the moment when I sit in meditation. I'm wondering whether sitting upright with no support just causes tension? Either way, it's very distracting and not too pleasant.

 

When I then consciously slouch I feel better...but then it's like I'm doing more stretching exercises rather than meditating. Simple breath meditation just seems to be harder for me these days than say 6 months to a year ago.

 

Perhaps my back is just shaped differently. Long car journeys in an erect seat also hurts a lot after a couple of hours.

 

Does anybody have any clue as to what this could be?

 

The doctor once said that it's just because I'm used to slouching and that I need to train my back muscles up by doing yoga exercises but since then, I've been more mindful of posture yet still it seems to be a problem.

I slouch all the time, which has my bones and muscles kinda tweaked most of the time, but after meditation My back always feels better.

 

Physacly, meditation should be about relaxation so it is more important to relax and balance the spine then to hold it up right.

 

Trying to sit too up right I had noticed that I was doing this thing, almost like I was holding myself up right by elevating the shoulders. What I realized I was oing was causing a subtle tension in my inner thigh, which actually lifted my butt slightly and gave me the illusion of sitting straighter.

 

I had thought I wasn't keeping my back straight, but everytime I noticed tension and relaxed it, my back would fall into the slouchy feeling. I sat with a freind of mine whos been practicing meditation for over 40 years, he's been involved in American Buddhism since the 60's, and used to roll with Alan Watts, so I value his opinion on certain things. When our session was over, I held my posture which felt slouchy and asked him if it looked alright. He said yes. So what I had been doing was doing that lifting thing which caused pain when I didnt need to. It didn't feel straight to me because I didn't puff up.

 

So maybe ask a freind or use a mirror once to make sure that when you think you're slouching you really are, because if you think you are and you aren't, you'll more then likely make yourself so rigid an in a few minutes you'll realize that your holding you back straigt with the thighs and your ass is starting to lift off the cushion.

 

The key to straightening the back while keeping it realxed is to relax the inner thigh, and keep the spine erect by relaxing the shoulders and laying your wrist or forearms so that they rest across the tops of the thighs, then direct the spine so that it is lined up with gravity. That way you are not holding anything up period; its all balance and rest, then you just need to watch your chin/neck; the moving of your chin/neck can cause the spine to tense up too. When one part of your body falls out of position, the spine does gradual shifting so your chin rising can cause your spine to tense up in a couple minutes after.

 

If you feel pain in your back, relax your butt and you'll feel your lower spine settle in. Keep checking your shoulders, if your shoulders are held in place by your hand mudra, that will create tension in your back via the shoulders, so make sure that your hand mudra is not holing you up, but that the weight of your shoulders is laying across the tops of your thigh an your hands are resting togeather so that they feel like they are not your own hands.

 

Your back does not need to be held up, that is not the idea, its all about rest and comfort/letting go of tension.

 

Something else that reflects in the back/spine is chest/throat breathing. If you're not breathing withyour diaphragm it will disturb the entire posture and cause you to hold your shoulders up an eventually lead to back discomfort. To breath through the diaphragm is to relax the diaphragm which is to relax the back and spine.

 

The other thing is thought and muscle tension are one. Thought creates muscle tension, muscle tension creates thought. Relaxing the body quiets the mind, and quieting the mind relaxes the body. If you are finding that you are tense and try to relax, stop thinking an remember that you are not feeling discomfort, it is just a thought that you are feeling discomfort, you are thinking that you are feeling discomfort and you can break free of that thought just like every other one. The physical sensation will be there but it will be like a thing of its own that wont register as discomfort to you, the discomfort becomes like an indipendent object that has no affect on you.

[soaring crane]

Savasana on the beach!

 

is that you?