Help with stagnant qi liver / depression

[marcus2013]

Dear Tao Bums,

 

I am asking you for some sincere advice. I have been diagnosed by a TCM Dr. with Stagnant Qi Liver and Spleen Qi deficiency (attacked by the liver). After reading about those two syndromes, all the bad things that are happening in my life finally make sense. My constant sense of frustration, irritability, inability to experience joy, the sense of being stuck in life, my tremendous lack of energy and direction on what to do to change those frustrating things, etc.

 

This is, I think, at least partly realted to a job I am stucked in, an extremely boring (I feel like in the Groundhoug day) but which I cannot change because I lack the energy, courage and direction to do so. My TCM Dr. via a pulse diagnosis said it's normal because my "mind" wants to move forward, but my "body" (in reality there's not such distinction) is sending the message : "you have so low energy, don't even move! save it for vital functioning!" so that's why I am always neurotic (divided) on leaving this job that I don't like or staying because it consumes very low energy.

 

Plus, this job is sitting in front of a computer for many hours, also fatal to the liver I've read. However, it's decently paid and it would allow me to do/study other things, it's about 6h day job. Why can't I just do the 6 hours and enjoy the rest of the day ? Impossible to me.

 

But I don't know if all this mess is caused by the stagnant qi liver, or this frustration with the job caused the stagnation. Or maybe I have deep psychological traumas or something that are causing all this mess.

 

If I go to the normal doctor, he wants to prescribe me antidepressants. If I go to the psychologist, she wants me to either change job or enjoy it. However, this seems impossible to me because I lack the energy to change or cannot control my emotions no matter how hard I say it to myself that I should stay calm and be grateful for having a job. I feel like in a vicious circle from which I don't know how to escape or what to do. Maybe leaving the safety of this job is even worst.

 

One thing that is *really helping* are coffee enemas but I don't want to be hooked to this procedure (I feel like I have to connect to a dyalisis machine every day) plus I am not sure it's healthy in the long term.

 

Another thing that has helped me is practicing shaolin kung fu, however, it's quite aggressive in it's nature and quite aggressive for the knees also.

 

What do you think ? What could you recommend me ? Of course I'll discuss this with my Dr. but I would like to know more opinions. Please help.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Aetherous]

The TCM Doc should help you with those things. In addition to his treatments, you can also massage the LIV3 acupoint on your foot to get rid of the liver stagnation. Another point you could do is GB40...that will help with liver stagnation, and is a point which is good for people who can't be decisive (as you sort of describe).

I would skip the coffee enemas...it can dehydrate your colon (which will cause a ton of health problems down the road), and coffee can also be bad for the nerves.

Your job sounds fine; 6 hours isn't bad. Just move around for a minute or two half way through your work...and also be sure to exercise in some way each day, even if it's just walking.

 

(I'm not a TCM doctor. Listen to qualified people first...but what I said won't hurt you)

Edited October 4, 2013 by turtle shell

[BaguaKicksAss]

The herbs and acupuncture your TCM Dr. gives should fix you right up. Also it's very likely they will suggest specific diet therapy for you; this helps as well. Actually your martial arts teacher can likely give some specific exercises/practices which would help as well .

[marcus2013]

Thanks folks for your answers.

 

Bagua : I really hope it fixes me in a deep and solid way, not only to temporarily relieve the symptoms. I also started with the diet therapy although I try not to get obsessed with it (I already am quite obsessive).

 

Turtle : I don't dare touching accupuncutre points on my own. For i.e I've read you can't press LIV3 if you are very low in energy. I will just trust my Dr.

 

One thing I've noticed already is a sutble increase in energy, but I don't have anywhere to canalyze it. It's like having ADD/ADHD.

 

Here's to all the Tao Bums.

[marcus2013]

Does anyone have more insights on this issue ?

 

Thanks,

Marcus

[ChiDragon]

How is your sex life with or without a partner.....??? It makes lots of difference how often you do it without a partner. Sorry, I have to ask this silly question but it is a very serious thing which is effecting your life.

[marcus2013]

How is your sex life with or without a partner.....??? It makes lots of difference how often you do it without a partner. Sorry, I have to ask this silly question but it is a very serious thing which is effecting your life.

 

Hi ChiDragon,

 

Thanks for taking the time to read my post. I guess you are asking this because of the loss of energy that follow ejaculations, right ? I first read about that on Dr. L Wilson's webpage. He doesn't talk about "jing" or "qi" but rather about vital nutrients that you deplete every time you "emit".

 

I must say I've been ejaculating once per day minimum, and most of the times twice or three times (around 65/70% of the times without a partner, that is : masturbation) for the last 14 years or so. I'm 31 now. So if masturbating is bad, I've been doing it bad for waaay too long.

 

Since I realized the health implications that frequent ejaculation can cause, I've reduced my "emissions" to once or twice per week. It's the minimum I can stand without getting crazy. This has started 1 month ago or so.

 

But again, as on my original post, the problem is the vicious circle : lots of frustration and anxiety generate strong desire for masturbation to relieve some of the pain, thus spinning the circle again.

 

What do you think ?

 

Cheers

[Ant]

the herbs and acupuncture should have a great impact on the liver qi stagnation, regular Qigong practice would be a great help as well. you could also add some light running in there too, exercise is good for getting the qi moving. i think if you massage gently along the areas of the liver meridian that feel tender, that should help also. certain foods such as chocolate, spicy foods, alcohol and coffee will aggravate your condition so it would be wise to avoid them. good luck

[ChiDragon]

Hi ChiDragon,

 

Thanks for taking the time to read my post. I guess you are asking this because of the loss of energy that follow ejaculations, right ? I first read about that on Dr. L Wilson's webpage. He doesn't talk about "jing" or "qi" but rather about vital nutrients that you deplete every time you "emit".

 

I must say I've been ejaculating once per day minimum, and most of the times twice or three times (around 65/70% of the times without a partner, that is : masturbation) for the last 14 years or so. I'm 31 now. So if masturbating is bad, I've been doing it bad for waaay too long.

 

Since I realized the health implications that frequent ejaculation can cause, I've reduced my "emissions" to once or twice per week. It's the minimum I can stand without getting crazy. This has started 1 month ago or so.

 

But again, as on my original post, the problem is the vicious circle : lots of frustration and anxiety generate strong desire for masturbation to relieve some of the pain, thus spinning the circle again.

 

What do you think ?

 

Cheers

 

You welcome....!!!

This issue has been posted many times in the past.There was another member had posted the exact same thing recently. However, I had communicated with him by PM. Since this is a very common thing for the guys, I have decided to bring this in the open again. Btw this is not the first I have posted something like this. Indeed, I asked the same question and returned with the same response from quite a few in the forum.

 

It is a wise thing for you to do by cutting it down once or twice a week. Once per day is too much for your body to handle. Physiologically, one does it every other two days is normal. Thus it gives ample of time for your body to recuperate.

 

In regards to "jing" or "qi" but rather about vital nutrients that you deplete every time you "emit". Anyway, jing or qi is the ancient terms which is equivalent to "vital nutrients" in modern terms. Actually, you need the source of energy which are the vital nutrients for the body to generate the internal vital energy for your body to function. If you 'emit' too much, then you will dissipate your vital energy sooner than your body can generate. The depletion of the vital energy will deprive your body from its normal function elsewhere. It will cause lots of physical and mental problems.

 

If you have an abdominal pain as the result from the 'emission', please PM me for getting rid of the pain. So far, I had helped one person with good result.

 

 

[daojones]

I absolutely hate liver qi stagnation. It has caused me significant suffering.

I can tell you about my experience, but the truth is a lot of the technical info is already out there as to how liver qi stagnation will affect you. I think the interesting and unique thing is how some things affect you more (depression, or the extent of the attack on your spleen, or the other expressions of the stagnations in your body as it is left untreated).

Basically you gotta get that qi moving. I've taken TCM herbs at different times throughout dealing with this. Sometimes it's been helpful and other times not so much. Mainly I find theyre helpful when it gets really really bad and I don't know what to do.

Physical movement is one key thing. Do something. I find the more intense the exercise the better I feel.

 

I make the most progress in dealing with the stagnation when I make real life changes. My liver qi stagnation stems from not doing things I want to do, not being aligned with my will and not doing what my will wants, repressing emotion and such things.

It took me a while to realize that herbs could not solve my liver qi stagnation problem. The answer lied within me and how I was living my life. And yes, there are activities one does that can make it worse...but ultimately it is an existential issue for me. And based on what you wrote it seems that may also be the case for you.

One major lesson I learned this year, and this is huge, is the importance of environment. I kept having the same shitty experiences this year and realized it was because I kept putting myself in environment's that were not supportive of who I am. The lesson is change your environment to one that supports you and your path. If you don't, you're basically shooting yourself in the foot. As well, general advice for helping with liver qi stagnation would be to change your environment (even if it's to another shitty one...you'll eventually figure out what's right for you- fail fast!).

I've made amazing strides in getting my qi to flow and no amount of qi gong, meditation, herbs, or exercise could have helped me. In fact, doing these things extend the stagnation because they make it manageable and hide the root cause of the stagnation - existential/life issues. Once I started living MY life, how I wanted to, things started to change and it feels fucking amazing (ya, and it's also not easy to make those changes).

Quit your lame ass job and go travel or something.

Edited October 9, 2013 by daojones

[Narew]

Dear Tao Bums,

 

I am asking you for some sincere advice. I have been diagnosed by a TCM Dr. with Stagnant Qi Liver and Spleen Qi deficiency (attacked by the liver).

 

First of all - what did the TCM doctor do for you? Did he give you herbs and most of all, ACUPUNCTURE? I also have/had liver-spleen problems and my experience is that acupuncture is crucial, while herbs are important, but on second place.

 

Are you drinking ANY alcohol, ANY at all? Then stop it - even if it's "only one beer", which you are drinking for social reasons. It will not heal your liver in itself, but will make things better. Also, cut ANY intake of sugar, stop drinking ANY cold drinks or raw, that is uncooked foods. Sugar and cold drinks like coca cola are common knowledge, but I also mean raw fruits, fruit juices, salads and mineral water. Contrary to western dietary idiocy, these things are unhealthy, specifically unhealthy for spleen. Oh, and how much spicy food are you eating (liver)? Also, avoid dairy products (spleen).

 

 

Plus, this job is sitting in front of a computer for many hours, also fatal to the liver I've read.

 

Lots of people sit before the computer with no significant problems. Don't quit the job, heal the organs with acupuncture and herbs.

 

One thing that is *really helping* are coffee enemas but I don't want to be hooked to this procedure (I feel like I have to connect to a dyalisis machine every day) plus I am not sure it's healthy in the long term.

 

How much of this coffe is getting absorbed into your system? I'm not sure, but I think coffe is a double-edged sword in this case - I think it's helping the stagnation temporarily, but in the long-term it might be making the problem even worse. The same goes for ingested coffe.

 

 

What do you think ? What could you recommend me ? Of course I'll discuss this with my Dr. but I would like to know more opinions. Please help.

 

1. LOTS OF ACUPUNCTURE.

2. Herbs.

3. Diet.

 

I think that especially acupuncture is crucial here - in a certain way way, perhaps you shouldn't even try other things - they might have insufficient effect compared to the work put in and it could make you frustrated and worry more, which will make things even worse.

 

Also, I had the experience that the Xing Yi Quan's Zhan Zhuang position of San Ti Shi had great effect on my emotional state when I had any kind of frustration/depression problems, even in severe moments - but in my experience that was not a permanent solution.

[marcus2013]

First of all - what did the TCM doctor do for you? Did he give you herbs and most of all, ACUPUNCTURE? I also have/had liver-spleen problems and my experience is that acupuncture is crucial, while herbs are important, but on second place.

 

 

Well, first of all, thank you very much for your time and answers man.

 

Yes, he's doing acupuncture once per week. He said minimum between 6 months to 1 year.

 

Are you drinking ANY alcohol, ANY at all? Then stop it - even if it's "only one beer", which you are drinking for social reasons. It will not heal your liver in itself, but will make things better. Also, cut ANY intake of sugar, stop drinking ANY cold drinks or raw, that is uncooked foods. Sugar and cold drinks like coca cola are common knowledge, but I also mean raw fruits, fruit juices, salads and mineral water. Contrary to western dietary idiocy, these things are unhealthy, specifically unhealthy for spleen. Oh, and how much spicy food are you eating (liver)? Also, avoid dairy products (spleen).

 

Well, I cutted my alcohol drinking very drastically (it wasn't excessive before either) some months ago, although I still have that "only one beer" for social reasons. Maybe two glasses of wine a week on friday or saturday night. Geez! Do you really think a glass of wine a week can really fuck up my liver or stop progress ?

 

All you say about cola/colds/sugar/etc. makes a lot of sense and it's part of the written instructions my TCM doctor gave me. I've cutted them, but ... MAN! Do you really think a piece of pie on saturdays or sundays can really fuck it all ?

 

No spicy (I don't like it anyway). And no deep fried products.

 

If TCM can't fix a liver to the point that it can stand some sugar and some wine once a week, then... well, I don't know. I don't think chinese are so very much strict on anything.

 

Lots of people sit before the computer with no significant problems. Don't quit the job, heal the organs with acupuncture and herbs.

 

And lots of people drink alcohol and eat sugar and smoke and only have health problems when they reach 70. You are right I woud like to heal my organs first and then decide what to do with the job, but, if tou read daojones post just above yours, I think he goes straight to the point when he says about the environment and existential crises. I think the job might be affecting very much my liver not because of the screen but because there's absolutely nothing new to learn there, nothing to learn from my coworkers (I see them as zombies) plus I sit in front of the computer doing nothing (there's not much work to do) so it makes me feel I'm not worth the salary I get. That said, my goal if possible is to first heal the organs and then decide. We'll see if that happens.

 

How much of this coffe is getting absorbed into your system? I'm not sure, but I think coffe is a double-edged sword in this case - I think it's helping the stagnation temporarily, but in the long-term it might be making the problem even worse. The same goes for ingested coffe.

 

Supposedly the coffee goes straight to the liver. You don't absorv much caffeine on the general bloodstream. My goal is to not having to make any at all BUT as the things are right now, they're saving me. If I don't do them 2/3 times per week I feel like I want to run someone over with my car. Of course I'll never do it, I'm not a psychopath but you understand what I mean. I get extremely frustrated and my body becomes rigid like stone.

 

1. LOTS OF ACUPUNCTURE.

2. Herbs.

3. Diet.

 

I think that especially acupuncture is crucial here - in a certain way way, perhaps you shouldn't even try other things - they might have insufficient effect compared to the work put in and it could make you frustrated and worry more, which will make things even worse.

 

This is the path I am following right now.

 

Also, I had the experience that the Xing Yi Quan's Zhan Zhuang position of San Ti Shi had great effect on my emotional state when I had any kind of frustration/depression problems, even in severe moments - but in my experience that was not a permanent solution.

 

Have you find any permanent solution then ?

 

 

I make the most progress in dealing with the stagnation when I make real life changes. My liver qi stagnation stems from not doing things I want to do, not being aligned with my will and not doing what my will wants, repressing emotion and such things.

 

 

 

 

This really makes sense of what's happening to me.

 

 

It took me a while to realize that herbs could not solve my liver qi stagnation problem. The answer lied within me and how I was living my life. And yes, there are activities one does that can make it worse...but ultimately it is an existential issue for me. And based on what you wrote it seems that may also be the case for you.

 

How have you been doing then ? I mean, applying the advice you have suggested me, has it fixed your exitential / emotional problems ? I've seen you in another thread saying you have very tigh lower abdomen. Probably repressed emotions. So do I have a very tigh abdomen.

 

 

One major lesson I learned this year, and this is huge, is the importance of environment. I kept having the same shitty experiences this year and realized it was because I kept putting myself in environment's that were not supportive of who I am. The lesson is change your environment to one that supports you and your path. If you don't, you're basically shooting yourself in the foot. As well, general advice for helping with liver qi stagnation would be to change your environment (even if it's to another shitty one...you'll eventually figure out what's right for you- fail fast!).

 

What you are saying also really makes a lot of sense to me. I've been having this intuitions for a long time but lacking the courage/energy to do so. The more time passes, I still have the same intuitions but less energy and less courage. That's why I feel I'm stucked in. I feel like crap! I hope the accu/herbs treatment can get me going so I can make the decisions. I don't really now what I want but I know being in that job with that zombie people is not who I am or what I want.

 

 

 

I've made amazing strides in getting my qi to flow and no amount of qi gong, meditation, herbs, or exercise could have helped me. In fact, doing these things extend the stagnation because they make it manageable and hide the root cause of the stagnation - existential/life issues. Once I started living MY life, how I wanted to things started to change and it feels fucking amazing (ya, and it's also not easy to make those changes).

 

Quit your lame ass job and go travel or something.

 

Man after reading your last paragrpah I almost cried and shouted in emotion (good emotion).

 

Let me please ask you one thing : Once you got your qi flowing, what happened with those emotions that are supposedly repressed when you have stagnant qi liver ?

 

Thank you very much for your advice.

 

My very best regards to all tao bums that are giving me their time and advice.

 

 

Well I don't know why it replies to daojones and Narew in the same post!!! So be it.

Edited October 9, 2013 by marcus2013

[Narew]

Yes, he's doing acupuncture once per week. He said minimum between 6 months to 1 year.

 

Great that you'll getting acupuncture. BTW The minimum of 6 month is reasonable, but getting acupuncture once per week seems kind of strange. I had experiences with 3 different acupuncture doctors and they all made series of 10 sessions, with every session taking place every 2 or 3 days.

Well, I cutted my alcohol drinking very drastically (it wasn't excessive before either) some months ago, although I still have that "only one beer" for social reasons. Maybe two glasses of wine a week on friday or saturday night. Geez! Do you really think a glass of wine a week can really fuck up my liver or stop progress ?

 

Yes, I think so. I know it can be socially painful, but I really recommend dropping ANY alcohol.

 

BTW I had liver problems and I never have been a heavy drinker either - I always drank less than most of my friends.

 

 

All you say about cola/colds/sugar/etc. makes a lot of sense and it's part of the written instructions my TCM doctor gave me. I've cutted them, but ... MAN! Do you really think a piece of pie on saturdays or sundays can really fuck it all ?

 

No, I think that unlike alcohol, which you should cut completely, some sugar would be acceptable.

 

If TCM can't fix a liver to the point that it can stand some sugar and some wine once a week, then... well, I don't know. I don't think chinese are so very much strict on anything.

 

Actually the sugar part is for spleen and you can eat some. But as far as alcohol is concerned - you should understand that while it is commonly consumded, on the biological level alcohol is not a normal food product, it's basically a toxin. Still, I think you should be able to consume some of it later, if you absolutely have to, but right now you need improvement, and that improvement will probably come MUCH FASTER if you won't undermine it with having "only one drink".

 

And lots of people drink alcohol and eat sugar and smoke and only have health problems when they reach 70.

 

Sure, they do. And my own grandfather was alcoholic, he sometimes slept drunk in the snow (!!!). And he reached 87! But that does not mean that getting drunk and falling asleep in the snow is advisable. And my grandfather died from liver cancer, so actually without the alcohol his life would probably be even longer.

 

We are not created equal - for example, I eat almost everything, consume fried meats, cheese etc etc and my "bad cholesterol" (LDL) is BELOW NORM. It's simply genetics - my mother has the same tendency. But some people have problem with that and they should NOT think "oh, Narew eats everything and he's got low cholesterol, so I can do it too".

 

You are right I woud like to heal my organs first and then decide what to do with the job, but, if tou read daojones post just above yours, I think he goes straight to the point when he says about the environment and existential crises. I think the job might be affecting very much my liver not because of the screen but because there's absolutely nothing new to learn there, nothing to learn from my coworkers (I see them as zombies) plus I sit in front of the computer doing nothing (there's not much work to do) so it makes me feel I'm not worth the salary I get.

 

I must say I disagree with DaoJones. I believe that the organs shape our reactions to experiences much more than the experiences shape our organs. And I've had experienced noticeable emotional and mental changes after needling the "mental" points like Yin Tang, Bai Hui, etc etc.

 

Have you find any permanent solution then ?

 

Acupuncture or doing San Ti Shi every day. In my case, even 6 minutes (3 min each side) is enough to clear me of majority of problematic emotions. And since it's a static exercise, you can even do it in a toilet at workplace or somewhere. But then again I don't what would be the learning curve in your case for San Ti Shi.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Just wanted to link a topic I wrote which was somewhat inspired by this one. Not wanting to go off on too much of tangent in this one, I just created a new thread to expand more on the subject.

 

So, to read my response for this thread, please see the following:

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32000-balanced-negative-emotions/

[Uroboros]

Marucs2013-

 

In my experience, its not that your body can never handle some alcohol or sugar, its that your body is weak/ highly sensitive right now.

 

So, if you eat it now, your body probably cant handle it, which means you get sicker. You have to reach a point of health where the body can handle it so the negative effects are minimal. Until you reach that threshold, I would stay away from sugar and alcohol.

 

You might want to consider getting some probiotics and enzymes for your gut health. If your gut is not healthy and happy, nothing will be.

 

Sugar, specifically sugar that is not in a fresh fruit, messes with your insulin which messes with your metabolism and can create some wild problems.

 

Humans only ate about 22 tbsp's of sugar a year, couple hundred years ago. Now, we eat that in a week or a few days. Sometimes a single day!

 

Imagine what that does to your body? Not good.

 

Do you drink filtered water? Meaning, the water is filtered to remove sediment, heavy metals, pesticides and such? Reverse osmosis is good. You can get a good filter for about 200 dollars, replace the filters for 80 to 120 once a year. 10,000 gallons or so based on the filter I use.

 

Do you drink enough water? Half your body weight in ounces? Do you feel thirsty often or rarely thirsty?

 

How much vegetables do you eat?

 

All things that greatly affect your overall health. Your liver included.

 

If your liver is having problems, its probably not just the liver. We are a systematic system. One thing does not just "go bad" by itself.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Peace

[marcus2013]

Great that you'll getting acupuncture. BTW The minimum of 6 month is reasonable, but getting acupuncture once per week seems kind of strange. I had experiences with 3 different acupuncture doctors and they all made series of 10 sessions, with every session taking place every 2 or 3 days.

 

Well, I'll keep it in mind and ask my Dr. about it! Thanks!

I must say I disagree with DaoJones. I believe that the organs shape our reactions to experiences much more than the experiences shape our organs. And I've had experienced noticeable emotional and mental changes after needling the "mental" points like Yin Tang, Bai Hui, etc etc.

 

50% of myself thinks like you.

50% of myself thinks like daojones.

 

I'm totally divided though That's also why I can't seem to move because there's two equal forces going on opposite directions.

 

 

Just wanted to link a topic I wrote which was somewhat inspired by this one. Not wanting to go off on too much of tangent in this one, I just created a new thread to expand more on the subject.

 

So, to read my response for this thread, please see the following:

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32000-balanced-negative-emotions/

 

 

 

Harmonious,

 

Thanks for your answer. I think you are right on what you say. Emotions exist for a reason and trying to completely supress them feels very unbalanced and unnatural. However, being anger every work day I consider it very unbalanced (that's my case). I readed a few times your post, I am a total newbie to Chinese philosophy/medicine/spirituality so it sounds kind of strange about the water/fire/organs/etc. plus my brain fog is fucking me but I think I get your point. If I am getting you correctly, that's why using a techinique like EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique) could be counterproductive since you'll be erasing any kind of uneasy emotion that in reality might be there to help you cope with a problem in the right way. Is this what you are saying ?

 

Anyway, related to my case, I would like to hear your opinion. What's the role of your theory in my case ?

 

Thanks. Long life to you.

Edited October 9, 2013 by marcus2013

[Uroboros]

Well, I'll keep it in mind and ask my Dr. about it! Thanks!

 

50% of myself thinks like you.

50% of myself thinks like daojones.

 

I'm totally divided though That's also why I can't seem to move because there's two equal forces going on opposite directions.

 

 

 

 

 

Harmonious,

 

Thanks for your answer. I think you are right on what you say. Emotions exist for a reason and trying to completely supress them feels very unbalanced and unnatural. However, being anger every work day I consider it very unbalanced (that's my case). I readed a few times your post, I am a total newbie to Chinese philosophy/medicine/spirituality so it sounds kind of strange about the water/fire/organs/etc. plus my brain fog is fucking me but I think I get your point. If I am getting you correctly, that's why using a techinique like EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique) could be counterproductive since you'll be erasing any kind of uneasy emotion that in reality might be there to help you cope with a problem in the right way. Is this what you are saying ?

 

Anyway, related to my case, I would like to hear your opinion. What's the role of your theory in my case ?

 

Thanks. Long life to you.

 

 

Anger is about protection and establishing boundaries. It is- Action Now.

 

Very important emotion.

 

Peace

[RiverSnake]

If your low on energy...one thing I'd recommend is you stop whacking off. Seems like your at some kind of transition point....just a note....I am a strong advocate of trusting ones intuition...it's never steered me wrong in the past.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited October 9, 2013 by OldChi

[daojones]

@Marcus

My abdominal issues have improved. I actually now feel more tightness around my solar plexus area, which seems to be the crux of the issue. Solar plexus is related to one's will and my plexus feels all blocked up! However, I feel I am on the path to healing and have had significant improvements in freeing up my solar plexus.

All the advice dispensed was based on personal experience. In general I didn't find one particular emotion that was repressed would come up. Rather, I felt all my emotions more. I felt I had more permission to express certain emotions that otherwise I may have felt I shouldn't express. I feel permission to be myself and not require as much validation from other people. I feel more confident. More Yang and more like a man. I am ready to follow my path and am following it.

Stay away from sugar! I find it to be a toxin just like alcohol. Although, it's not actually a toxin. I have found at different times I have different approaches to alcohol. Sometimes 1 or 2 shots of scotch will bring me down to the earth and ground me. If I am experiencing bad stagnation this feels great, because I get stuck in my head. Other times, I can't drink any alcohol b/c my body is just too sensitive to put poison in it.

On the topic of meditation and qi gong and the like. I would do mantak chia's healing sounds and got amazing results....like the same results of post-acupuncture session (except much cheaper!). But like I said previously, all these things helped me cope and not actually resolve the real issue. Herbs, acupuncture, etc..are helpful and good things. But, if you don't deal with the big issue(s) then I believe those to be a waste of resources. It's just like throwing band aids at a gashing wound. It may not be like that for all issues, but for me I found this to be the case.

Additionally, I got significant results from working with a shaman.

[marcus2013]

@Marcus

 

My abdominal issues have improved. I actually now feel more tightness around my solar plexus area, which seems to be the crux of the issue. Solar plexus is related to one's will and my plexus feels all blocked up! However, I feel I am on the path to healing and have had significant improvements in freeing up my solar plexus.

 

All the advice dispensed was based on personal experience. In general I didn't find one particular emotion that was repressed would come up. Rather, I felt all my emotions more. I felt I had more permission to express certain emotions that otherwise I may have felt I shouldn't express. I feel permission to be myself and not require as much validation from other people. I feel more confident. More Yang and more like a man. I am ready to follow my path and am following it.

 

Stay away from sugar! I find it to be a toxin just like alcohol. Although, it's not actually a toxin. I have found at different times I have different approaches to alcohol. Sometimes 1 or 2 shots of scotch will bring me down to the earth and ground me. If I am experiencing bad stagnation this feels great, because I get stuck in my head. Other times, I can't drink any alcohol b/c my body is just too sensitive to put poison in it.

 

On the topic of meditation and qi gong and the like. I would do mantak chia's healing sounds and got amazing results....like the same results of post-acupuncture session (except much cheaper!). But like I said previously, all these things helped me cope and not actually resolve the real issue. Herbs, acupuncture, etc..are helpful and good things. But, if you don't deal with the big issue(s) then I believe those to be a waste of resources. It's just like throwing band aids at a gashing wound. It may not be like that for all issues, but for me I found this to be the case.

 

Additionally, I got significant results from working with a shaman.

 

I am glad you are feeling better.

 

Let's see how this goes. I have now plenty of information about the issue. I am very grateful of having had such different point of views.

 

I'll keep you posted on this.

 

My best wishes to all the Tao Bums that are helping.

 

 

If your low on energy...one thing I'd recommend is you stop whacking off. Seems like your at some kind of transition point....just a note....I am a strong advocate of trusting ones intuition...it's never steered me wrong in the past.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

 

 

 

Yes your intuition is right again. I also feel in a heavy transition point although the transition is blocked now. It all started after quitting my prozac medication that was masking the real problem for years I guess. Plus some breathwork and work with shamanic substances I think accelerated the process a lot. I'm in an existential crysis. What's my purpose in life ? What am I doing in this job ? Apart from the job, is this the career I want (I.T.) ? What is love ? Does god exist ? Does something bigger than us exist ? ETC. I realized this life of politics, people stressed with their jobs, consumerism, going to discos and drinking to have fun, politics, scientificism, etc. was like living in MATRIX.

 

It was a painful process, I was feeling like getting out of matrix. Sometimes I was very connected to nature and god (or tao or universe or whatever you want to call it) and someother times I was suffering like if I was in the Dark night of the soul. I had to drop some friends, a girlfriend, habits, etc. (the environment daojones is talking about I guess) I even told my boss I was quitting my job, with really no other plans than to just ... see what will happen. Soon after I regreted the decision and cancelled the job quitting, staying there until now. I guess fear of leavin the comfort zone. Or autoprotecting, god knows!

 

What happened then ? I started doing the martial arts and taking some vitamins, that improved my condition. Those are the bandaids I guess daojones talks about. Anyway, they helped to rebuild my health.

 

So now what happens ? I am in a middle point, where my old life isn't satisfactory to me, but I don't know where to move. That's why I'm stucked, and probably with the stagnant qi liver hitting very bad. Sometimes I want my old life back, it reminds me of the Pulp song "I wanna be like common people"... but old is old, and for good or for bad I've changed.

 

This all makes sense of what daojones is saying.

 

As I said in the original post, my TCM Dr. said it's normal that I am stucked/splitted because I want to make a change, but it's normal that my body is telling me to not do that because I am very weak (liver `+ spleen) and once we fix that, I could make the changes.

 

We'll see how this goes with the TCM Dr. He also is of the opinion that I have to make a vital change. I'll keep you posted.

 

Thanks everyone!!!

Edited October 10, 2013 by marcus2013

[marcus2013]

If Malcolm had never tried ecstasy everything would have been fi ne. However,

a door had been opened and the only way for him to recapture what he wanted

would be to walk through and discover his soul purpose, then follow that

regardless of the expectations of others. After the experiences he’d had, he had

to be true to himself. Like many, Malcolm did not understand the responsibili-

ties that come with drug use.

 

 

When you are feeling angry, bitter, frustrated, paranoid, empty and confused

from drug use, you can talk to counsellors, psychologists or psychiatrists until

the cows come home but unless you restore health to your organs, things will

not change.

 

 

I just found these two paragraphs in a book by Jost Sauer (www.jostsauer.com). All the book is very inspiring and resonates of what's happening to me (although I never abused any hard-drug, only tobacco and marijuana during some years.). Well if Prozac is a drug in the sense Jost is talking, then yes.

 

 

Edited October 10, 2013 by marcus2013

[Harmonious Emptiness]

very interesting conversation

 

Plus some breathwork and work with shamanic substances I think accelerated the process a lot. I'm in an existential crysis. What's my purpose in life ? What am I doing in this job ? Apart from the job, is this the career I want (I.T.) ? What is love ? Does god exist ? Does something bigger than us exist ? ETC. I realized this life of politics, people stressed with their jobs, consumerism, going to discos and drinking to have fun, politics, scientificism, etc. was like living in MATRIX.

 

ha ha. Light shock! they should call it! When you're introduced to the light outside the cave, the first look might hurt a little bit at first!!

 

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Harmonious,

 

Thanks for your answer. I think you are right on what you say. Emotions exist for a reason and trying to completely supress them feels very unbalanced and unnatural. However, being anger every work day I consider it very unbalanced (that's my case). I readed a few times your post, I am a total newbie to Chinese philosophy/medicine/spirituality so it sounds kind of strange about the water/fire/organs/etc. plus my brain fog is fucking me but I think I get your point. If I am getting you correctly, that's why using a techinique like EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique) could be counterproductive since you'll be erasing any kind of uneasy emotion that in reality might be there to help you cope with a problem in the right way. Is this what you are saying ?

 

Anyway, related to my case, I would like to hear your opinion. What's the role of your theory in my case ?

 

Thanks. Long life to you.

 

Thanks, and, long life to you as well.

 

In fact it's good that you mentioned long life, as I was just returning to respond that, you can know the difference between anger that is "existing in perfection" with Equilibrium, and anger that is not by considering that much of Taoist wisdom was realized by knowing that some things provide and enhance life, while other things take away and diminish life.

 

Try to know Equilibrium first: the absence of sorrow, anger, desire, and joy. This is a feeling of balance, perhaps "lightness" would be a better description, but it is not in any way a feeling of "lacking" anything. From there you might find contentment in the absence of desire, and find calm, rather than restlessness, in the absence of joy. In this absence or suspension of desire, as well as of the search for joy, anger and sorrow have very little, if anything, to stand on (however, suspend them too, if necessary).

 

I suggest reading from the Nei Ye (link) between tasks or while in transit, and copying it to your phone. It will help you remember why, and how, to find Equilibrium.

 

That's the starting point. I don't want to mislead you, by my other post (linked above), into thinking that the path is the opposite of the path. But just know that anger, in harmonious perfection with Equilibrium, will play a role in changing the situation as well. There should really be another word for anger when it's righteous and not egotistical. Anyway, I'm not suggesting cultivation of anger, but it can be your friend too .

 

 

Harmonious Emptiness

 

 

[edited to add final sentence clause, in brackets, to second paragraph]

Edited October 10, 2013 by Harmonious Emptiness

[marcus2013]

I also found this very interesting article discussing the psychological/existential relations with qi stagnation :

 

http://www.paradoxpublishing.com/assets/files/publications/articles/aama/vol-13-1-compartmentalization.pdf

 

Daojones you might find it useful.

 

And this one, very useful for understanding the relationship between antidepressive drugs, TCM, and qi stagnation : http://www.paradoxpublishing.com/assets/files/publications/articles/aama/vol-21-1-drugs-and-acupuncture.pdf

 

Cheers.

Edited October 15, 2013 by marcus2013

[somatech]

I have had liver stagnation and liver attacking spleen symptoms for a very long time.

 

Herbs, acupuncture and qigong/meditation for years didn't solve the problem. They helped alleviate some of the discomfort. Ive seen some of the best healers and alt doctors including in TCM and Ayurveda.

 

I reluctantly realised that my emotional and physical life was the issue - I was emotionally stressed from a particular cause and had been living in a sense of stuckness for a very long time. I guess that was the initiating reason why the liver went out of balance.

 

I had to get out of that situation to really transform myself. As a result things have started changing.

 

The most powerful energy work that I have done has been rebirthing or cathartic breath work - its really cleared a lot of emotional stuckness in the body that nothing else would. Its painful to do too - ie. uncomfortable.

 

However even that alone wasn't enough. I really had to review my life, what I was doing, most particularly what I was ignoring and see all the pain/emotional stuff I was afraid of processing and stepping into that. Ive needed to change my location and face the depth of fear that was around a certain thing and its finally helping.

 

I really tried to avoid all of this by doing the more obvious techniques of herbs/acupuncture/TCM/qigong/meditation but in my case, they couldn't get to the root of the problem.

 

I also suspect that my physical body will take some time to heal from the long term effects of being out of balance but that shouldn't be too much of issue as long as I continue to address the deeper core stuff.