Awareness of habit of justification/ How clarity can become an obstacle to perception

[skydog]

yeh the word intelligence is innaccurate.

 

Zen Mind

 

One of the four enemies of becoming a man of knowledge, is clarity

 

aware of justification.

Edited October 9, 2013 by skydog

[silent thunder]

Massive evil is perpetrated under the guise of 'justified punishment'.

Justified is a dangerous fucking state of mind.

[Brian]

If one is extremely clever they can use their intelligence to rationalise to themself and justify their current belief system.

 

I don't think it actually takes cleverness at all. I think virtually everyone does this on virtually every decision or course of action they take. Rationalization is hugely important to the human animal. Vonnegut said it nicely:

 

Tiger got to hunt,

Bird got to fly;

Man got to sit and wonder, “Why, why, why?”

Tiger got to sleep,

Bird got to land;

Man got to tell himself he understand.

 

The more clever you are, the more intricate your rationalizations have to be, that's all. (Until/unless you step outside that box, of course...)

Edited October 8, 2013 by Brian

[Wells]

If one is extremely clever they can use their intelligence to rationalise to themself and justify their current belief system.

If one is extremely intelligent then they can't do that because they would see right through their intention, making it absurd.

However, dumb people do that day in and day out to be able to cope with their pathetic existence!

[Brian]

If one is extremely intelligent then they can't do that because they would see right through their intention, making it absurd.

However, dumb people do that day in and day out to be able to cope with their pathetic existence!

 

Naaah... They just incorporate their intellect into their rationalizations, saying that they are far too smart to deceive themselves like those pathetic dumb people and therefore their rationale MUST be sound.

[Jetsun]

Intelligent people often have so much of their self worth and identity tied up with their mind that it can be more difficult for them to break free from their belief systems as to do so threatens their sense of self.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Jetsun

[ChiDragon]

Chapter 19 of TTC
1. 絕聖棄智(jue sheng qi zhi)，
2. 民利百倍(min li bai bei)；

1. Extirpate impudence and discard fraudulence,
2. People will benefit hundredfold.

Edited October 8, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Seth Ananda]

Hmm some guy on youtube said the root of the word is intellect and genus, which is mind and creativity. That sounds like right and left brain activity together. This makes the various intelectards out there who are making bombs and other stupid shit very unintelligent, as all they have is intellect, and no sense of connection with nature or the whole ~ which two brain side functioning would give them...

 

lol, its funny when I read it back but I will post it anyway..

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Light also is a quality that partakes much of form, and is a simple act, and a representation of the understanding: it is first diffused from the Mind of God into all things, but in God the Father, the Father of Light, it is the first true light; then in the Son a beautifull overflowing brightness, and in the Holy Ghost a burning brightness, exceeding all Intelligencies; yea, as Dyonisius saith, of Seraphins, In Angels therefore it is a shining intelligence diffused, an abundant joy beyond all bounds of reason yet received in divers degrees, according to the Nature of the intelligence that receives it; Then it descends into the Celestiall bodies, where it becomes a store of life, and an effectuall propagation, even a visible splendor. In the fire a certain naturall liveliness infused into it by the heavens. And lastly in men, it is a clear discourse of reason, an knowledge of divine things, and the whole rationall: but this is manifold, either by reason of the disposition of the body, as the Peripateticks will have it, or which is more true, by reason of the good pleasure of him that bestows it, who gives it to every one as he pleaseth. From thence it passeth to the fancy, yet above the sense, but only imaginable, and thence to the sence [senses], but especially to that of the eyes; In them it becomes a visible clearness, and is extended to other perspicuous bodies, in which it becomes a colour, and a shining beauty, but in dark bodies it is a certain beneficiall and generative vertue, and penetrates, to the very center, where the beames of it being collected into a narrow place, it becomes a dark heat, tormenting, and scorching, so that all things perceive the vigour of the light according to their capacity, all which joyning to it self with an enlivening heat, and passing through all things, doth convey its qualities, and vertues through all things.

 

(Cornelius Agrippa, Three Books of Occult Philosophy, Chapter xlix. Of Light, Colours, Candles, and Lamps, and to what Stars, Houses, and Elements severall colours are ascribed., http://www.esotericarchives.com/agrippa/agripp1c.htm#chap49)

 

Reason is part of the divine understanding, in God, it exists in absolute perfection, the path of man is to find that perfection within himself.

 

See also one of my signature quotes: '... I oppose not rational to spiritual; for spiritual is most rational: But I contradistinquish rational to conceited, impotent , affected CANTING ...'

 

The difference is between being rational and rationalizing, but to explain how that works takes more time than I have right now.

[RiverSnake]

I think the moment you convince yourself that you know something without having experienced the truth for yourself....there is a problem. I try and post this video when ever I can....one of my favorites:

 

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited October 9, 2013 by OldChi

[Unseen_Abilities]

If one is extremely clever they can use their intelligence to rationalise to themself and justify their current belief system.

 

Can you give us an example of why this is "negative" use of intelligence?

 

Like someone else said, we all do this all the time...If somebody isn't actively seeking to expand what's possible for them by expanding their beliefs (actually, is expanding your beliefs really what expands what's possible for a person???) then is anybody else really in a position to label that as negative? Is it not just the belief system you're running that perceives the use of intelligence in that way to be negative?

 

$0.02

[Nikolai1]

Intelligence is basically the ability to be sceptical. It is not falling for one-sided arguments.

 

Unintelligent people have a poor ability to be sceptical. They therefore accept all sorts of things, and their worldview ends up full of contradictions. Trying to have a debate with such a person is like wading through a swamp.

 

Intelligent people are better able to be sceptical. They therefore suspend judgement on more things, subscribe to less, and have a more coherent worldview based on robust premises which even they don't know how to doubt.

 

But everyone has their limits. We all believe something or other. Ultimately the unintelligent and intelligent are both in the same boat when it comes to accepting those truths which transcend the intellect.

[skydog]

Can you give us an example of why this is "negative" use of intelligence?

 

Like someone else said, we all do this all the time...If somebody isn't actively seeking to expand what's possible for them by expanding their beliefs (actually, is expanding your beliefs really what expands what's possible for a person???) then is anybody else really in a position to label that as negative? Is it not just the belief system you're running that perceives the use of intelligence in that way to be negative?

 

$0.02

 

Hmmm

 

I think when I use the word Intelligence, this is not a good one as intelligence can include perception and everything. Yeh the word intelligence was a bad one.

 

I was reffering more to the analytical right brain without left brain kind of intelligence seth ananda mentioned.

 

Or as donald mentioned rational but not conceited.

 

Perhaps they are different words, but one can see it meaning the same thing.

 

An example I can give is when has a lot of clarity/wisdom, this can blind one, then they believe everything they know is true, which it is nice to be certain, but some people can become too imbalanced with this, and not have a flexible zen mind of a begginner.

 

At leasy one can be aware of their justification.

 

Perhaps it is just my perception of their behaviour as bad, but many refer to this zen state of begginers mind or humility,

 

Although a state of certainty is also nice. Its having a balance, maybe its not so good for one to philosophise about it (like Im doing) but shed light on it, from healing codes or whatever.

 

peace

Edited October 9, 2013 by skydog

[doc benway]

I'm confused (not unusual), what does this discussion have to do with clarity?

Edited October 10, 2013 by steve

[skydog]

I'm confused (not unusual), what does this discussion have to do with clarity?

The original op was the the negative use of intelligence and how it can be used to justify ones belief system, but later, i thought the word intelligence was a bad word for the point i was trying to make.

[Ish]

True intelligence goes far beyond book smarts. Many "intelligent" people i.e academics are deeply unhappy which is unintelligent by my definition.

[doc benway]

The original op was the the negative use of intelligence and how it can be used to justify ones belief system, but later, i thought the word intelligence was a bad word for the point i was trying to make.

Thanks - I think you make a good point about intelligence.

It can be used. An intelligent mind can be very wily, very tricky.

For me clarity sees through all of that, clarity means to be free from distraction or obfuscation.

I don't think clarity can be an obstacle to perception, though I get what you mean about "intelligence" potentially having that affect.

[9th]

[silent thunder]

In my life, high intelligence, unbalanced by open heart

leads to much distress and dis-ease...

prone to be lost in criticism and judgement for long periods...

diminishing awareness.

smothering lovingness.

Edited November 3, 2013 by silent thunder