Spirit Science

[RongzomFan]

Muslims want to call any differing point of view as "Satanic", ban books and implement sharia law.

[9th]

Chapters in the Quran are not arranged in the chronological order of revelation. A number of medieval writers have recorded ancient lists which give the chapters in what is allegedly their correct chronological order. There are different versions of the list and they disagree with each other about the precise order in which the chapters were revealed. The origin and value of the traditional lists is uncertain, none of the lists originate from before the first quarter of the 8th century, and they seem to be based on the learned opinions of scholars rather than carefully transmitted reports dating back to the time of Muhammad or his companions. Several versions exit: A version is given in a 15th-century work by a person named Abd al-Kafi. Another writer named Abu Salih mentioned a different list and another significantly different version of Abu Salih is preserved in a book named 'Kitab Mabani'. A different list is mentioned by the 10th-century writer Ibn Nadim.^[4]

The standard Egyptian edition of the Quran (1924) gives a chronological order based on one of the traditional lists, the one given by Abd al-Kafi.^[4]

A number of verses are associated with particular events which helps in dating them. Muhammad's first revelation was chapter 96 (year 609 CE). Verses 16:41 and 47:13 refer to migration of Muslims which took place in the year 622 CE. Verses 8:1-7 and 3:120-175 refer to battles of Badr (624 CE) and Uhud (625 CE) respectively. Muhammad's last pilgrimage is mentioned in 5:3 which occurred in 632 CE, a few months before he died. This method is of limited usefulness because the Qur'an narrates the life of Muhammad or the early history of the Muslim community only incidentally and not in detail. In fact, very few chapters contain clear references to events which took place in Muhammad's life.^[4]

Theodor Nöldeke's chronology is based on the assumption that the style of the Quran changes in one direction without reversals.^[5] Nöldeke studied the style and content of the chapters and assumed that (1) later (Madinan) chapters and verses and are generally shorter than earlier (Meccan) ones (2) Earlier Meccan verses have a distinct rhyming style while later verses are more prosaic (prose-like).^[4] According to Nöldeke earlier chapters have common features: many of them open with oaths in which God swears by cosmic phenomena, they have common themes (including eschatology, creation, piety, authentication of Muhammad's mission and refutation of the charges against Muhammad), and some Meccan chapters have a clear 'tripartite' structure (for example chapters 45, 37, 26, 15, 21). Tripartite chapters open with a short warning, followed by one or more narratives about unbelievers, and finally address contemporaries of Muhammad and invite them to Islam. On the other hand, Madinan verses are longer and have a distinct style of rhyming and concern to provide legislation and guidance for the Muslim community.^[4]

Richard Bell took Nöldeke's chronology as starting point for his research, however, Bell did not believe that Nöldeke's criteria of style was important. He saw a progressive change in Muhammad's mission from a man who preached monotheism into an independent leader of a paramount religion. For Bell this transformation in Muhammad's mission was more decisive compared with Nöldeke's criteria of style. Bell argued that passages which mentioned Islam and Muslim or implied that Muhammad's followers were a distinct community were revealed later. He classified the Quran into three main periods: the early period, the Quranic period, and the book period.^[4] Richard bell worked on the chronology of verses instead of chapters. Underlying Bell's method for dating revelations is the assumption that the normal unit of revelation is the short passage and the passages have been extensively edited and rearranged.^[6]

Mehdi Bazargan divided the Quran into 194 independent passages preserving some chapters intact as single blocks while dividing others into two or more blocks. He then rearranged these blocks approximately in order of increasing average verse length. This order he proposes is the chronological order. Bazargan assumed that verse length tended to increase over time and he used this assumption to rearrange the passages.^[5]

Neal Robinson, an scholar of Islamic studies, is of the opinion that there is no evidence that the style of Quran has changed in a consistent way and therefore style may not always be a reliable indicator of when and where a chapter was revealed. According to Robinson it should be obvious that the problem of the chronology of the revelations is still far from solved.^[4]

 

[RongzomFan]

I wonder what it will take to satisfy "WrongzomFan" ... how many comments and posts does he crave?

 

Your favorite Bhagavad Gita is banned in Saudia Arabia.

 

And that's supposed to be a "modern" Islamic country.

Edited November 14, 2013 by RongzomFan

[9th]

Your favorite Bhagavad Gita is banned in Saudia Arabia.

 

Why do you think its my favorite?

[RongzomFan]

Why do you think its my favorite?

 

The point is you don't have religious freedom in Muslim majority countries.

[9th]

[Seeker of Wisdom]

Muslims want to call any differing point of view as "Satanic", ban books and implement sharia law.

You mean, 'Some Muslims want to call any differing point of view as "Satanic", ban books and implement sharia law.'

[Isimsiz Biri]

Google it.

 

I googled, it says "Satan"?

[Brian]

Curious deck of cards you deal from, Isimsiz Biri.

 

[RongzomFan]

You mean, 'Some Muslims want to call any differing point of view as "Satanic", ban books and implement sharia law.'

 

Nope. Just plain Muslims.

 

Even a Sufi New Age "moderate" like Isimsiz Biri is obviously an extremist by his own words.

Edited November 14, 2013 by RongzomFan

[9th]

[Isimsiz Biri]

Muslims want to call any differing point of view as "Satanic", ban books and implement sharia law.

 

The Ottoman Empire did not do it for 600 years. Jews, Christians, Muslims lived in peace. It was British to support evil Wahhabis in 1800s against Ottomans. Saudis are Wahhabi.

 

USA used Wahhabis to create Al Qaeda to fight against Soviet Union. Wahhabis are perverts. They hate Sufis. They hate Ibn Arabi.

 

Real Islam is peace, compassion and love.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Isimsiz Biri

[RongzomFan]

The Ottoman Empire did not do it fot 600 years. Jews, Christians, Muslims lived in peace. It was British to suppory Vahhabis in 1800s against Ottomans. Saudis are Vahhabi.

 

USA used Vahhabis to create Al Qaeda to fight against Soviet Union. Vahhabis are perverts. They hate Sufis. They hate Ibn Arabi.

 

Real Islam is peace, compassion and love.

 

You are confusing Al Qaeda with Taliban.

[Isimsiz Biri]

 

You are confusing Al Qaeda with Taliban.

Not at all. Bin Laden was trained by CIA and he went to Afghanistan in early 1990s.

[RongzomFan]

Not at all. Bin Laden was trained by CIA and he went to Afghanistan in early 1990s.

 

that's a myth

[Isimsiz Biri]

 

that's a myth

Sheer truth. Investigate his life.

[RongzomFan]

Sheer truth. Investigate his life.

 

Going by the Wikipedia article, he was motivated by religion.

[Nungali]

Everybody watching you thinks the same for you, They say RongzomFan is evil

I don't . Shall we post a poll?

[Rara]

You raise interesting topics! Would you like for this thread to be split & cleaned?

 

Nah, let all carry on. It's entertaining.

[Nungali]

Curious deck of cards you deal from, Isimsiz Biri.

 

I have the same deck ... they are all blank ... until I quickly write on one ( with one of my 'witty and intellectual responses' )

 

here is a card in response to you ( hang on .... scribbling)

 

" You live in poo ! "

 

<smug> that showed 'em !

 

Now I go on to defeat my next opponent - Hai!

[Rara]

 

 

You didn't watch the whole thing did you?

 

Animals are a stepping stone to talk to hungry ghosts.

 

What, you mean that we can run into "negative entities" along the way when channeling?

 

Is that not what Isimsiz Biri was saying anyway. But wasn't he accusing the Spirit Science lecturer of falling victim to the tricksters? Or did I read all this wrong?

[Seth Ananda]

Poor old Satan gets such a bad rap...

[Nungali]

 

This is not the correct version of the picture appropriate for this thread.

 

Look at this version in the collection of Romio Shrestha

 

look at the bottom right corner where we can see flaming skeletons wrestling in hell ... is that two of the members here ?

 

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=DH9_dGFbekQC&pg=PA285&lpg=PA285&dq=wheel+of+deluded+existence+collection+of+romio+shrestha&source=bl&ots=y7EPRFNHpV&sig=3H9zdkzikpRbyfizxaWE_J0n_4A&hl=en&sa=X&ei=qlWFUov-JaS5iQeXu4GwAw&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=wheel%20of%20deluded%20existence%20collection%20of%20romio%20shrestha&f=false

Edited November 14, 2013 by Nungali

[Rara]

Poor old Satan gets such a bad rap...

 

And we wonder why he keeps coming back for more? Haha...

 

Cursing the godfather of cursing seems somewhat counter-productive

[Nungali]

.http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Q378sfA3w0Q/Ud8JvyyQh4I/AAAAAAAAB8c/DQBo_tUXn74/s1600/south-park-SatanSad4_couch_revised_big.jpg.