Spirit Science

[9th]

[Isimsiz Biri]

Only in Islam, is it encouraged to lie.

 

Koran 3:28

 

(03:28) of Holy Quran does not include anything about lies.

 

Holy Quran

Surat 'Āli `Imrān (Family of Imran) 3rd Sura,

 

(03:28) Let not believers take disbelievers as allies rather than believers. And whoever [of you] does that has nothing with Allah , except when taking precaution against them in prudence. And Allah warns you of Himself, and to Allah is the [final] destination.

[Isimsiz Biri]

Is that why Saudia Arabia bans Buddhist books?

 

 

Saudi Arabia is a state where Satan is really effective. You will feel comfortable there.

[Isimsiz Biri]

Not at all. Bin Laden was trained by CIA and he went to Afghanistan in early 1990s.

 

 

that's a myth

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden

Mujahideen in Afghanistan

After leaving college in 1979, bin Laden went to Pakistan, joined Abdullah Azzam and used money and machinery from his own construction company to help the mujahideen resistance in the Soviet war in Afghanistan.[72] He later told a journalist: "I felt outraged that an injustice had been committed against the people of Afghanistan."[73] Under Operation Cyclone from 1979 to 1989, the United States provided financial aid and weapons to the mujahideen through Pakistan's ISI. Bin Laden met and built relations with Hamid Gul, who was a three-star general in the Pakistani army and head of the ISI agency. Although the United States provided the money and weapons, the training of militant groups was entirely done by the Pakistani Armed Forces and the ISI.

By 1984, bin Laden and Azzam established Maktab al-Khidamat, which funneled money, arms and fighters from around the Arab world into Afghanistan. Through al-Khadamat, bin Laden's inherited family fortune[74] paid for air tickets and accommodation, paid for paperwork with Pakistani authorities and provided other such services for the jihadi fighters. Bin Laden established camps inside Khyber Pakhtunkhwa in Pakistan and trained volunteers from across the Muslim world to fight against the Soviet puppet regime, the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan; he would also participate in some combat activity, such as the Battle of Jaji. It was during this time that he became idolised by many Arabs.[6]

Formation and structuring of al-Qaeda

Main article: Al-Qaeda

By 1988, bin Laden had split from Maktab al-Khidamat. While Azzam acted as support for Afghan fighters, bin Laden wanted a more military role. One of the main points leading to the split and the creation of al-Qaeda was Azzam's insistence that Arab fighters be integrated among the Afghan fighting groups instead of forming a separate fighting force.[75] Notes of a meeting of bin Laden and others on August 20, 1988 indicate that al-Qaeda was a formal group by that time: "Basically an organized Islamic faction, its goal is to lift the word of God, to make his religion victorious." A list of requirements for membership itemized the following: listening ability, good manners, obedience, and making a pledge (bayat) to follow one's superiors.[76]

According to Wright, the group's real name was not used in public pronouncements because "its existence was still a closely held secret".[77] His research suggests that al-Qaeda was formed at an August 11, 1988, meeting between "several senior leaders" of Egyptian Islamic Jihad, Abdullah Azzam, and bin Laden, where it was agreed to join bin Laden's money with the expertise of the Islamic Jihad organization and take up the jihadist cause elsewhere after the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan.[78] Following the Soviet Union's withdrawal from Afghanistan in February 1989, Osama bin Laden returned to Saudi Arabia in 1990 as a hero of jihad. Along with his Arab legion, he was thought to have "brought down the mighty superpower" of the Soviet Union.[79] He was angered by the internecine tribal fighting among the Afghans.[80]

The Iraqi invasion of Kuwait under Saddam Hussein on August 2, 1990, put the Saudi kingdom and the House of Saud at risk. With Iraqi forces on the Saudi border, Saddam's appeal to pan-Arabism was potentially inciting internal dissent. Bin Laden met with King Fahd, and Saudi Defense Minister Sultan, telling them not to depend on non-Muslim assistance from the United States and others, and offering to help defend Saudi Arabia with his Arab legion. Bin Laden's offer was rebuffed, and the Saudi monarchy invited the deployment of U.S. forces in Saudi territory.[81] Bin Laden publicly denounced Saudi dependence on the U.S. military, arguing the two holiest shrines of Islam, Mecca and Medina, the cities in which the Prophet Mohamed received and recited Allah's message, should only be defended by Muslims. Bin Laden's criticism of the Saudi monarchy led them to try to silence him. The U.S. 82nd Airborne Division landed in north-eastern Saudi city of Dhahran and was deployed in the desert barely 400 miles from Medina.[80]

Meanwhile, on November 8, 1990, the FBI raided the New Jersey home of El Sayyid Nosair, an associate of al-Qaeda operative Ali Mohamed. They discovered copious evidence of terrorist plots, including plans to blow up New York City skyscrapers. This marked the earliest discovery of al-Qaeda terrorist plans outside of Muslim countries.[82] Nosair was eventually convicted in connection to the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, and later admitted guilt for the murder of Rabbi Meir Kahane in New York City on November 5, 1990.

Bin Laden continued to speak publicly against the Saudi government, for which the Saudis banished him. In 1992 he went to live in exile in Sudan, in a deal brokered by Ali Mohamed.[83]

 

 

Edited November 15, 2013 by Isimsiz Biri

[Isimsiz Biri]

Not this bullshit again. The scientific claims of the Koran have been debunked so many times. The Koran gets all the science wrong.

 

http://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1-e.htm

 

E) The Quran on Seas and Rivers:

Modern Science has discovered that in the places where two different seas meet, there is a barrier between them. This barrier divides the two seas so that each sea has its own temperature, salinity, and density.¹ For example, Mediterranean sea water is warm, saline, and less dense, compared to Atlantic ocean water. When Mediterranean sea water enters the Atlantic over the Gibraltar sill, it moves several hundred kilometers into the Atlantic at a depth of about 1000 meters with its own warm, saline, and less dense characteristics. The Mediterranean water stabilizes at this depth² (see figure 13).

 

Figure 13: The Mediterranean sea water as it enters the Atlantic over the Gibraltar sill with its own warm, saline, and less dense characteristics, because of the barrier that distinguishes between them. Temperatures are in degrees Celsius (C°). (Marine Geology, Kuenen, p. 43, with a slight enhancement.) (Click on the image to enlarge it.)

Although there are large waves, strong currents, and tides in these seas, they do not mix or transgress this barrier.

The Holy Quran mentioned that there is a barrier between two seas that meet and that they do not transgress. God has said:

He has set free the two seas meeting together. There is a barrier between them. They do not transgress. (Quran, 55:19-20)

But when the Quran speaks about the divider between fresh and salt water, it mentions the existence of “a forbidding partition” with the barrier. God has said in the Quran:

He is the one who has set free the two kinds of water, one sweet and palatable, and the other salty and bitter. And He has made between them a barrier and a forbidding partition. (Quran, 25:53)

One may ask, why did the Quran mention the partition when speaking about the divider between fresh and salt water, but did not mention it when speaking about the divider between the two seas?

Modern science has discovered that in estuaries, where fresh (sweet) and salt water meet, the situation is somewhat different from what is found in places where two seas meet. It has been discovered that what distinguishes fresh water from salt water in estuaries is a “pycnocline zone with a marked density discontinuity separating the two layers.”³ This partition (zone of separation) has a different salinity from the fresh water and from the salt water⁴ (see figure 14).

Figure 14: Longitudinal section showing salinity (parts per thousand ‰) in an estuary. We can see here the partition (zone of separation) between the fresh and the salt water. (Introductory Oceanography, Thurman, p. 301, with a slight enhancement.) (Click on the image to enlarge it.)

This information has been discovered only recently, using advanced equipment to measure temperature, salinity, density, oxygen dissolubility, etc. The human eye cannot see the difference between the two seas that meet, rather the two seas appear to us as one homogeneous sea. Likewise, the human eye cannot see the division of water in estuaries into the three kinds: fresh water, salt water, and the partition (zone of separation).

 

Next: The Quran on Deep Seas and Internal Waves

_____________________________

Footnotes:

(1) Principles of Oceanography, Davis, pp. 92-93.

(2) Principles of Oceanography, Davis, p. 93.

(3) Oceanography, Gross, p. 242. Also see Introductory Oceanography, Thurman, pp. 300-301.

(4) Oceanography, Gross, p. 244, and Introductory Oceanography, Thurman, pp. 300-301.

 

Edited November 15, 2013 by Isimsiz Biri

[Isimsiz Biri]

Not this bullshit again. The scientific claims of the Koran have been debunked so many times. The Koran gets all the science wrong.

 

F) The Quran on Deep Seas and Internal Waves:

 

God has said in the Quran:

Or (the unbelievers’ state) is like the darkness in a deep sea. It is covered by waves, above which are waves, above which are clouds. Darknesses, one above another. If a man stretches out his hand, he cannot see it.... (Quran, 24:40)

This verse mentions the darkness found in deep seas and oceans, where if a man stretches out his hand, he cannot see it. The darkness in deep seas and oceans is found around a depth of 200 meters and below. At this depth, there is almost no light (see figure 15). Below a depth of 1000 meters there is no light at all.¹ Human beings are not able to dive more than forty meters without the aid of submarines or special equipment. Human beings cannot survive unaided in the deep dark part of the oceans, such as at a depth of 200 meters.

Figure 15: Between 3 and 30 percent of the sunlight is reflected at the sea surface. Then almost all of the seven colors of the light spectrum are absorbed one after another in the first 200 meters, except the blue light. (Oceans, Elder and Pernetta, p. 27.)

Scientists have recently discovered this darkness by means of special equipment and submarines that have enabled them to dive into the depths of the oceans.

We can also understand from the following sentences in the previous verse, “...in a deep sea. It is covered by waves, above which are waves, above which are clouds....”, that the deep waters of seas and oceans are covered by waves, and above these waves are other waves. It is clear that the second set of waves are the surface waves that we see, because the verse mentions that above the second waves there are clouds. But what about the first waves? Scientists have recently discovered that there are internal waves which “occur on density interfaces between layers of different densities.”² (see figure 16).

Figure 16: Internal waves at interface between two layers of water of different densities. One is dense (the lower one), the other one is less dense (the upper one). (Oceanography, Gross, p. 204.)

The internal waves cover the deep waters of seas and oceans because the deep waters have a higher density than the waters above them. Internal waves act like surface waves. They can also break, just like surface waves. Internal waves cannot be seen by the human eye, but they can be detected by studying temperature or salinity changes at a given location.³

 

Next: The Quran on Clouds

_____________________________

Footnotes:

(1) Oceans, Elder and Pernetta, p. 27.

(2) Oceanography, Gross, p. 205.

(3) Oceanography, Gross, p. 205.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Isimsiz Biri

[Isimsiz Biri]

Chapters in the Quran are not arranged in the chronological order of revelation. A number of medieval writers have recorded ancient lists which give the chapters in what is allegedly their correct chronological order. There are different versions of the list and they disagree with each other about the precise order in which the chapters were revealed. The origin and value of the traditional lists is uncertain, none of the lists originate from before the first quarter of the 8th century, and they seem to be based on the learned opinions of scholars rather than carefully transmitted reports dating back to the time of Muhammad or his companions. Several versions exit: A version is given in a 15th-century work by a person named Abd al-Kafi. Another writer named Abu Salih mentioned a different list and another significantly different version of Abu Salih is preserved in a book named 'Kitab Mabani'. A different list is mentioned by the 10th-century writer Ibn Nadim.^[4]

The standard Egyptian edition of the Quran (1924) gives a chronological order based on one of the traditional lists, the one given by Abd al-Kafi.^[4]

A number of verses are associated with particular events which helps in dating them. Muhammad's first revelation was chapter 96 (year 609 CE). Verses 16:41 and 47:13 refer to migration of Muslims which took place in the year 622 CE. Verses 8:1-7 and 3:120-175 refer to battles of Badr (624 CE) and Uhud (625 CE) respectively. Muhammad's last pilgrimage is mentioned in 5:3 which occurred in 632 CE, a few months before he died. This method is of limited usefulness because the Qur'an narrates the life of Muhammad or the early history of the Muslim community only incidentally and not in detail. In fact, very few chapters contain clear references to events which took place in Muhammad's life.^[4]

Theodor Nöldeke's chronology is based on the assumption that the style of the Quran changes in one direction without reversals.^[5] Nöldeke studied the style and content of the chapters and assumed that (1) later (Madinan) chapters and verses and are generally shorter than earlier (Meccan) ones (2) Earlier Meccan verses have a distinct rhyming style while later verses are more prosaic (prose-like).^[4] According to Nöldeke earlier chapters have common features: many of them open with oaths in which God swears by cosmic phenomena, they have common themes (including eschatology, creation, piety, authentication of Muhammad's mission and refutation of the charges against Muhammad), and some Meccan chapters have a clear 'tripartite' structure (for example chapters 45, 37, 26, 15, 21). Tripartite chapters open with a short warning, followed by one or more narratives about unbelievers, and finally address contemporaries of Muhammad and invite them to Islam. On the other hand, Madinan verses are longer and have a distinct style of rhyming and concern to provide legislation and guidance for the Muslim community.^[4]

Richard Bell took Nöldeke's chronology as starting point for his research, however, Bell did not believe that Nöldeke's criteria of style was important. He saw a progressive change in Muhammad's mission from a man who preached monotheism into an independent leader of a paramount religion. For Bell this transformation in Muhammad's mission was more decisive compared with Nöldeke's criteria of style. Bell argued that passages which mentioned Islam and Muslim or implied that Muhammad's followers were a distinct community were revealed later. He classified the Quran into three main periods: the early period, the Quranic period, and the book period.^[4] Richard bell worked on the chronology of verses instead of chapters. Underlying Bell's method for dating revelations is the assumption that the normal unit of revelation is the short passage and the passages have been extensively edited and rearranged.^[6]

Mehdi Bazargan divided the Quran into 194 independent passages preserving some chapters intact as single blocks while dividing others into two or more blocks. He then rearranged these blocks approximately in order of increasing average verse length. This order he proposes is the chronological order. Bazargan assumed that verse length tended to increase over time and he used this assumption to rearrange the passages.^[5]

Neal Robinson, an scholar of Islamic studies, is of the opinion that there is no evidence that the style of Quran has changed in a consistent way and therefore style may not always be a reliable indicator of when and where a chapter was revealed. According to Robinson it should be obvious that the problem of the chronology of the revelations is still far from solved.^[4]

 

 

The two orders (traditional order and chronological order) are valid at the same time. The contents are still the same. For an outsider, it does not matter at all. From Haqiqa / Marifa levels, it is important but it is not a subject of this forum.

 

The traditional order has been arranged by Divine Realms.

[RongzomFan]

Saudi Arabia is a state where Satan is really effective. You will feel comfortable there.

 

You repeatedly call everything Satanic just like Saudia Arabia.

[RongzomFan]

God has said:

He has set free the two seas meeting together. There is a barrier between them. They do not transgress. (Quran, 55:19-20)

But when the Quran speaks about the divider between fresh and salt water, it mentions the existence of “a forbidding partition” with the barrier. God has said in the Quran:

He is the one who has set free the two kinds of water, one sweet and palatable, and the other salty and bitter. And He has made between them a barrier and a forbidding partition. (Quran, 25:53)

 

The Koran thinks different oceans don't mix?

 

The Koran thinks you can't mix saltwater with freshwater?

 

LMAO

Edited November 15, 2013 by RongzomFan

[RongzomFan]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden

Mujahideen in Afghanistan

After leaving college in 1979, bin Laden went to Pakistan, joined Abdullah Azzam and used money and machinery from his own construction company to help the mujahideen resistance in the Soviet war in Afghanistan.[72] He later told a journalist: "I felt outraged that an injustice had been committed against the people of Afghanistan."[73] Under Operation Cyclone from 1979 to 1989, the United States provided financial aid and weapons to the mujahideen through Pakistan's ISI. Bin Laden met and built relations with Hamid Gul, who was a three-star general in the Pakistani army and head of the ISI agency. Although the United States provided the money and weapons, the training of militant groups was entirely done by the Pakistani Armed Forces and the ISI.

By 1984, bin Laden and Azzam established Maktab al-Khidamat, which funneled money, arms and fighters from around the Arab world into Afghanistan. Through al-Khadamat, bin Laden's inherited family fortune[74] paid for air tickets and accommodation, paid for paperwork with Pakistani authorities and provided other such services for the jihadi fighters. Bin Laden established camps inside Khyber Pakhtunkhwa in Pakistan and trained volunteers from across the Muslim world to fight against the Soviet puppet regime, the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan; he would also participate in some combat activity, such as the Battle of Jaji. It was during this time that he became idolised by many Arabs.[6]

Formation and structuring of al-Qaeda

Main article: Al-Qaeda

By 1988, bin Laden had split from Maktab al-Khidamat. While Azzam acted as support for Afghan fighters, bin Laden wanted a more military role. One of the main points leading to the split and the creation of al-Qaeda was Azzam's insistence that Arab fighters be integrated among the Afghan fighting groups instead of forming a separate fighting force.[75] Notes of a meeting of bin Laden and others on August 20, 1988 indicate that al-Qaeda was a formal group by that time: "Basically an organized Islamic faction, its goal is to lift the word of God, to make his religion victorious." A list of requirements for membership itemized the following: listening ability, good manners, obedience, and making a pledge (bayat) to follow one's superiors.[76]

According to Wright, the group's real name was not used in public pronouncements because "its existence was still a closely held secret".[77] His research suggests that al-Qaeda was formed at an August 11, 1988, meeting between "several senior leaders" of Egyptian Islamic Jihad, Abdullah Azzam, and bin Laden, where it was agreed to join bin Laden's money with the expertise of the Islamic Jihad organization and take up the jihadist cause elsewhere after the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan.[78] Following the Soviet Union's withdrawal from Afghanistan in February 1989, Osama bin Laden returned to Saudi Arabia in 1990 as a hero of jihad. Along with his Arab legion, he was thought to have "brought down the mighty superpower" of the Soviet Union.[79] He was angered by the internecine tribal fighting among the Afghans.[80]

The Iraqi invasion of Kuwait under Saddam Hussein on August 2, 1990, put the Saudi kingdom and the House of Saud at risk. With Iraqi forces on the Saudi border, Saddam's appeal to pan-Arabism was potentially inciting internal dissent. Bin Laden met with King Fahd, and Saudi Defense Minister Sultan, telling them not to depend on non-Muslim assistance from the United States and others, and offering to help defend Saudi Arabia with his Arab legion. Bin Laden's offer was rebuffed, and the Saudi monarchy invited the deployment of U.S. forces in Saudi territory.[81] Bin Laden publicly denounced Saudi dependence on the U.S. military, arguing the two holiest shrines of Islam, Mecca and Medina, the cities in which the Prophet Mohamed received and recited Allah's message, should only be defended by Muslims. Bin Laden's criticism of the Saudi monarchy led them to try to silence him. The U.S. 82nd Airborne Division landed in north-eastern Saudi city of Dhahran and was deployed in the desert barely 400 miles from Medina.[80]

Meanwhile, on November 8, 1990, the FBI raided the New Jersey home of El Sayyid Nosair, an associate of al-Qaeda operative Ali Mohamed. They discovered copious evidence of terrorist plots, including plans to blow up New York City skyscrapers. This marked the earliest discovery of al-Qaeda terrorist plans outside of Muslim countries.[82] Nosair was eventually convicted in connection to the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, and later admitted guilt for the murder of Rabbi Meir Kahane in New York City on November 5, 1990.

Bin Laden continued to speak publicly against the Saudi government, for which the Saudis banished him. In 1992 he went to live in exile in Sudan, in a deal brokered by Ali Mohamed.[83]

 

 

 

There is no CIA mentioned.

[RongzomFan]

Scientific Errors in Koran

 

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Qur%27an

[RongzomFan]

I hope everyone reading this thread understands how extremist even "moderate" Muslims are.

[Isimsiz Biri]

You repeatedly call everything Satanic just like Saudia Arabia.

 

If you go there, you will be very very comfortable. You can not enter Mecca and Medina but Riyadh the center of Wahhabis is just for you. You will feel at home.

[Isimsiz Biri]

There is no CIA mentioned.

 

"I felt outraged that an injustice had been committed against the people of Afghanistan."[73] Under Operation Cyclone from 1979 to 1989, the United States provided financial aid and weapons to the mujahideen through Pakistan's ISI. Bin Laden met and built relations with Hamid Gul, who was a three-star general in the Pakistani army and head of the ISI agency. Although the United States provided the money and weapons, the training of militant groups was entirely done by the Pakistani Armed Forces and the ISI.

 

ISI is under control of CIA.

[Isimsiz Biri]

Scientific Errors in Koran

 

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Qur%27an

 

You can not prove the my previous posts about seas and waters are wrong.

[Isimsiz Biri]

The Koran thinks different oceans don't mix?

 

The Koran thinks you can't mix saltwater with freshwater?

 

LMAO

 

If you could not understand, go to primary school. Restart everything.

[Seeker of Wisdom]

I hope everyone reading this thread understands how extremist even "moderate" Muslims are.

 

I hope that the Muslims who come across this thread understand that the majority of Buddhists have no problem with the majority of Muslims.

[Isimsiz Biri]

I hope that the Muslims who come across this thread understand that the majority of Buddhists have no problem with the majority of Muslims.

 

Exactly. This is not a debate between Islam and Buddhism. Not at all.

[thelerner]

To the muslim i say remember your prophets words about arguments is to reply with' you have your belief and i have mine, peace be with you'

 

To the buddhist i say remember buddha's words to not trust any teachings until you yourself have proven them through your own meditative experience, and his last words find your own light.

 

peace

Wise words.

 

Though I like to say:

You worship God your way

I'll worship him His

 

just kidding. Live, let live and practice wise tolerance. Religious arguments are silly because people have different holy books and traditions. And lets face it, much of the science and some of the ethics (slavery, sexism, religious sanctioned killing..) is a bit dated.

 

Personally I can't help hoping that an Infinite God isn't as tied to ancient books as we humans seem to be.

Edited November 15, 2013 by thelerner

[RongzomFan]

If you go there, you will be very very comfortable. You can not enter Mecca and Medina but Riyadh the center of Wahhabis is just for you. You will feel at home.

 

I am not even Muslim, yet you are saying I am fundamentalist Wahhabi?

 

LMAO

[RongzomFan]

ISI is under control of CIA.

 

CIA and ISI are enemies.

 

Come on now.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okB2QECmIhg

Edited November 15, 2013 by RongzomFan

[RongzomFan]

If you could not understand, go to primary school. Restart everything.

 

 

I just mixed salt water and fresh water right now.

 

They certainly mix.

 

Allah should have said oil and water don't mix.

Edited November 15, 2013 by RongzomFan

[RongzomFan]

 

 

I like this

[Isimsiz Biri]

I am not even Muslim, yet you are saying I am fundamentalist Wahhabi?

 

LMAO

 

You are neither Muslim nor a fundamentalist Wahhabi. But you in the essence, you are same with Wahhabis. They have the hatred against other religions. You have hatred for other religions too. You can use the word "F..k" for a Prophet. They use the same word for Buddha. They serve Satan. You serve Satan. You share so common points. Go to Riyadh, it is home for you.

[Isimsiz Biri]

 

CIA and ISI are enemies.

 

Come on now.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-Services_Intelligence

 

The Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence (more commonly known as Inter-Services Intelligence or simply by its initials ISI), is the premier Intelligence service of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, operationally responsible for providing critical national security and intelligence assessment to the Government of Pakistan. The ISI is the largest of the three intelligence services of Pakistan, the others being the Intelligence Bureau (IB) and Military Intelligence (MI). Previously in the 20th century, the ISI's work and activities have included the support of the Afghan mujahideen in then-communist Afghanistan against the Soviet Union in their war against the mujahideen (in conjunction with the Central Intelligence Agency) and later provided strategic and intelligence support to the Taliban against the Indo-Iranian backing the Northern Alliance in the civil war in Afghanistan in 1990s.[1]

 

I am bored to approve what you say is 100% wrong. Do something more creative. Surprise me.