Hou Tian vs Xian Tian & Xiao Yao Pai

[effilang]

Man (Ren / 人) - Is situated between heaven and earth. As such, at birth we have the maximum potential to cultivate either in favor of Earth or in favor of Heaven; by refining our 3 bodies (physical, energy, spirit) to become either more Yin or more Yang.

We are equipped with a refined spiritual essence which allows us through the right practice methods to bring our 3 bodies into unified perfection and enable our return to the primordial Tao of origination.

A completely Yin body is dead, begins to return to the earth through decomposition and emits a strong Yin energy. Hence our UTUT mantra used for repelling the Yin energy of any dead bodies in our vicinity.

A completely Yang body is the peak of life and can be prepared to ascend into heaven as an immortal. It emits strong Yang energy.

In esoteric Taoism our aim is to cultivate our 3 bodies by sublimating all their Yin aspects into complete Yang radiance.

Fundamentally the human energetic matrix is composed of three very broad energies called

The Three Treasures (San Bao / 三宝)
These are known as JING (精), QI(氣) and SHEN(神).

Loosely described JING refers to physical aspects of the body concerning dense matter ie: bones, muscles, tendons, blood, sexual fluids and tissues.

JING corresponds to the Lower Elixir Field (Xia Dan Tien / 下丹田).
Of the three treasures it vibrates at the lowest level of frequency, hence its attribution to the densest forms of matter in the body.

The slower the atoms vibrate and the less space they have between themselves in a molecular structure, the denser and more physical the material is eg: a rock.

The faster the atoms vibrate and the less packed together they are, the more flexible and permeable the structure will be: eg: water

Qi corresponds to the Middle Elixir Field (Zhong Dan Tien / 中丹田).
It refers to the internal and external energetic matrix of the body and includes individual organ energies, meridian Qi, external energetic fields etc.

Qi vibrates at levels much faster than Jing.
If we liken Jing to ice, then Qi is like water.

Shen corresponds to the Upper Elixir Field (Shang Dan Tien / 上丹田).
It refers to the spirit energies of the body and governs functions such as consciousness, the eternal soul etc.

Shen in this rough approximation is thus like steam.

In reality though it is far beyond the grasps of both time, space and distance and can function 4 or 5 dimensionally.

JING QI & SHEN are interconnected and one gives birth to the other.

Thus, Jing can be accumulated and through meditative practices sublimated into Qi by raising it's vibration. Further more, through refinement Qi can be transmuted into Shen.

This is the Earth to Heaven (Hou Tian) process of generation.

However there is a reverse process in which Shen can be stepped down to generate Qi and Qi can be transmuted into Jing.

This is the Heaven to Earth (Xian Tian) process of generation.

Because of this intermingling energetic structure the whole system can support itself interchangeably depending on what is required to maintain homeostasis.

During embryological and fetal development we do not breath through the lungs. Energetic (non physical) sustenance is absorbed from our mother directly through her Conception Vessel (Ren Mai) while nutritional (physical) via the umbilical chord and placenta.

In this way we perform what Taoists refer to as fetal breathing, where all our energy is circulated internally through all 12 primary and 8 extra meridians without the need for direct cardio-pulmonary excitation.

The baby's tongue is kept lightly pressed against the hard section of the oral pallet to help promote the flow of energy between it's conception and governing vessels (Ren and Du). This can be observed during sonographic scans.

Once we are born our butts are promptly smacked to welcome us into being and our umbilical chord is cut, leading to the first inhalation of air through our lungs.

This is the end of fetal breathing, although the breath at this point is still low in the belly.

As time passes it gradually moves away form the Xia Dan Tien and settles in the chest.

The Hou Tian Shu school of Taoism believes that the strength of our vitality and the relative Yin/Yang nature of the body can be measured in a value of 64 points accumulated every 32 months. Thus a toddler aged 2 years and 6 months would have developed one unit of the positive Yang principle.

When the child reaches 5 years and 4 months, it would have accumulated 2 units of the positive Yang principle.

When it is 16 years of age (192 months), it would have developed 6 units of the positive Yang principle and have all together 384 points accumulated) (64 x 6 = 384).

As we begin to live in the world and delight in the pleasures of the body and mind, our 384 points and 6 units of positive Yang principle begin to leak out.

Thus the ancient Taoists said.

See, but do not look.
Touch, but do not feel.
Hear, but do not listen.
Smell, but do not delight.
Taste, but do not savor.

This poem refers to the 5 senses, through which it is believed the vitality leaks out once the spirit engages with the pleasure of the sense.

Because of these beliefs, ancient Taoists chose to live a life of moderation in the aim of regulating the vitality of the body and preserving the positive Yang principle to aid in spiritual cultivation.

If the leakage of energy is not moderated or stopped, the positive Yang vitality principle will decrease gradually in proportion to its Yin principle which will accumulate, pulling us away from the heavenly and into the mortality of earthly existence.

 

Thus, onwards from the 16th year, 6 units of vitality and 384 points, a new negative Yin principle will develop every 96 months, in such a way that at 24 years of age another negative Yin unit of principle develops and through continuous unregulated leakage of vitality by the senses, the Yin principle will continue to accumulate, therefore:

At 32 yrs, the negative principle is now 2 units.

At 40 yrs, the negative principle is now 3 units.

At 48 yrs, the negative principle is now 4 units.

At 56 yrs, the negative principle is now 5 units.

At 64 yrs, the negative principle is now 6 units and the Yang principle is 0.

At this point we become completely Yin, we are often sickly, with weak bones, diseases, grey hair, aching knees, weak internal organs and health doesn't seem to get better, only worse, leading us gradually into the grave.

So, Hou Tian Shu schools of Taoism determined that in order to fortify the body and prevent aging and death one had to eliminate the negative principle and cultivate the Yang principle back into life.

Because of abusing our bodies with improper food, our minds with improper thoughts, and our energy with improper interactions, after so many years our JING is weakened, our Qi is irregular and feeble and our Shen is in a state of dismay.

So, to reverse the process, they began to regulate the 5 senses and the leakage of vitality by balancing how they lived their lives and expended their energy, with the aim of restoring the JING so that it can restore the QI, and the QI can restore the SHEN, strengthening the whole complex.

They experimented with many methods of energy conservation ie: Not talking (silent monks), not eating (asceticism), not looking (dark-room retreats), not having sex (physical celibacy), controlling the 6th consciousness of the acquired-ego-mind (mind celibacy) etc.

They all showed efficacy in conserving vitality and after time they noticed that practicing moderation, strengthened and invigorated their systems, each in their own accord.

Of all these one method was most effective: sexual celibacy as the most amount of vitality was lost during sexual ejaculation (men) and menstruation (women). Hence practices leading to their cessation such as "Slaying The White Tiger and Beheading The Red Dragon" were created.

Through conserving or stopping sexual activity, after 100 days of determination, ancient Hou Tian Shu Taoists established that the Jing could be strengthened and 64 points of positive Yang principle could be restored to the body. Now 5 Yin and 1 Yang

After 200 days another positive Yang principle was restored. Now 4 Yin and 2 Yang.

After 300 days another positive Yang principle was restored. Now 3 Yin and 3 Yang and sight and hearing was replenished

After 400 days another positive Yang principle was restored. Now 2 Yin and 4 Yang and, white hair turned black again.

After 500 days another another positive Yang principle was restored. Now 1 Yin and 5 Yang.

After 600 days another positive Yang principle was restored. Now 0 Yin and 6 Yang.

Thus after 600 days of celibacy of the mind and body, Hou Tian Xiu practitioners could return their bodies to the vigor of the 16 year old bearing the 6 Yang principles and 384 points of vitality.

All this was done in order to return the body back to a Yang state in preparation for advanced spiritual work and immortality arts. This is why a form of pseudo Xian Tian Shu exists in Hou Tian Shu, during which young virgin children of ages 14 to 16 are initiated into alchemical practice in order to take advantage of their almost completely Yang state, which will significantly reduce the time required to reach the ultimate goal of immortality.

An incredibly strong determination is required on part of those who practice Hou Tian Shu, as you can imagine sexual activity is a big part of our modern lives and is difficult if not impossible to exclude if you are an integrated part of society.

Due to this, you will find that there are many Hou Tian Shu Taoists whom become hermits or monks in order to avoid the temptation of their 5 senses and their respective arousal by the delights and pleasures of life.

So in Hou Tian Shu, the refinement is started from JING, then JING is accumulated through body celibacy and with the inseparable catalysis of mind celibacy by means of meditation it is transmuted into a higher vibrational state of Qi.

During this complicated alchemical process, the process of energetic refinement is moved from the Lower Elixir Field to the Middle Elixir Field where the Qi is then further refined into Shen, at which point the process of refinement moves up to the Upper Elixir Field, where the Shen is further cultivated to merge into the void of the Wuji, dispersing into the Tao to achieve Gong (Emptiness)

This is the ultimate goal of cultivation; to merge the 3 bodies into one diamond immortal body, taking with us our personality.

This is the state of the pure Yang Shen body, where the Yin principle has been completely eliminated and all 10 souls (the 3 hun and the 7 po) have been merged into one immortal.

If we do not attain this goal in Hou Tian Shu until old age, then the JING (physical body) will become too weak to support the Qi and the Qi will disperse and the Spirit having no body to reside in will abandon the shell. This is physical death.

After death the Shen will move into the higher dimensions in preparation for other journeys or reincarnations.

So like it was mentioned recently in an e-mail, the spirit can be made to leave the body by two means (although there are others):

1. To make the JING and body very weak and bring it near the brink of death to coax the spirit to leave.

or

2. To accumulate Jing so it can create Qi which can strengthen the Shen to such a level, that it can willfully leave the body.

So this is why Hou Tian Shu means POST Heaven Cultivation, because the body is in a Yin (Earth) state by the time we begin to practice it and we have lost much of our positive Yang (Heaven) principle.

Hou Tian Shu, is not easy. It is the hardest undertaking any human can undergo, and to those of us who do not have access to such rare schools like Xiao Yao Pai in order to learn authentic Xian Tian Shu, it is the only way to cultivate immortality.

 

So this is HTS. Earth to Heaven.

In this respect Xiao Yao Pai is a blessing to practitioners.
You could live 1000 life times and not once come across what we learn.

To me, It truly is something remarkable.

But why? Here's why.

During Hou Tian Shu, we cultivate ourselves alone.
The problem with this is that we are all structured differently, physically, energetically and spiritually.

We have different blockages 3 x 3 levels deep and they are specific to our constitution as a result of our genetics and interactions with our world.

No two people are alike.

Now imagine you have 100 people practicing the same Qigong set in a hall. Quite frankly they have no idea, their teacher says its good for them and they do it. What they don't understand however is that every Qigong set and movement is designed to stimulate specific meridians and organs in the body, so 50 of those people may have a Yin deficient liver and may tonify it and alleviate the internal imbalance, but the remaining 50 may have a Yin excess liver so instead of actually helping them, the additional Yin energy generated by the Qigong movements in the liver is exacerbating the condition.

At the end of the day half of them will go back home and say the Qigong class was bullshit, it just made me sicker, while the other half will claim that they felt the hand of Jesus touch them.

This is the crux of the difficulty with practicing Hou Tian Shu, because nobody at a low level of cultivation is capable of accurate self diagnosis to determine what regimen is appropriate for THEIR specific condition, so they end up often causing more harm than good by concentrating on specialized exercises. It is only at the much higher levels that accurate diagnostic skills are acquired at the Shen level. So you need already have moved from the Xia Tan Tien to the Shang Tan Tien.

Some of these people will practice for 30 years and have no spiritual skill at all. It is truly a shame.

This is where our school really stands out.

Instead of cultivating JING to QI to SHEN, during initiation we are directly connected to a Xian Shen or Tian Shen (Immortal Spirit or Heavenly Spirit) - whom exist in a dimension far above ours and have a skill so refined that they can hand pick each and every one of your imbalances and cure it directly.

If you have an imbalance in your liver, it will prescribe something specifically for that.
If you have an issue with your heart, it will prescribe something specifically for that.

Whatever the issue is, whether of the physical, energetic or spirit/mind body, your Fu Fa Shen will approach your refinement through divine wisdom.

It will not spend time on that which needs no attention, but only on that which does. This is not something we can do on our own due to our limited perception and diagnostic skills.

Because of this privilege, those of us who practice Tao Yin Shu through Xiao Yao Pai are literally on a straight highway to immortality.

There is no Zig Zagging involved.

Further, because we are a Xian Tian Shu school, we first begin the refinement of the Shen which after time then refines the Qi, which then refines the Jing.

This is why you will hear from some practitioners seeing the falling snow and dancing flowers in front of the eyes in the early stages of practising TYS, which is one of the final processes during Hou Tian Shu cultivation and pertains to the opening of the Bai Hui / Heavenly Gate at the top of the head to allow our spirit to exit the body.

Some of our practitioners from the London event have already achieved being able to come out of their body with their spirit and it hasn't even been a month yet.

Those who practice Hou Tian Shu, will have a very strong body at the early stages due to the very well refined Jing and this may prolong the life of the physical body, but will not lead them into immortality unless they can refine their Jing to Qi, the Qi to Shen and the Shen to Wuji.

In Xiao Yao Pai however, we begin refining the spirit from day one and our 3 bodies are enveloped with a protective golden aura, so that even if our spirit comes out of the body at an early stage when it is still an infant, it will be protected from any forms of magical attack or encounters with other spirits.

In Hou Tian Shu, we do not have this advantage and when we get to the stage of seeing the falling snow and dancing flowers, once our spirit comes out of the top of the head, it is still a baby Shen and is vulnerable to attack, and our empty body left open for possession. This is why we immediately recall it back into the Upper Elixir Field as soon as it comes out for the first time, lest we may lose it.

In Xiao Yao Pai, the golden Ling Qi aura protects us and further more your Fu Fa Shen can help you when you ask it for assistance directly or if you are under attack.

Having the honour of being initiated means not spending a life time searching for teachers or cultivating on your own, deciphering complicated books, learning all the firing times of the alchemical process, knowing when to breathe and when not to breathe, knowing all the different channel routes and configurations of energy movements, learning Chinese or travelling to china to seek the truth.

You FFS will guide you through every process of alchemical cultivation and bear in mind the microcosmic and macrocosmic timings on your behalf.

It means quite simply that the Master comes to your house to give you private lessons. So even if you are retarded and never read a book in your life, or can't even spell Taoism. You will still be on your way to surpassing most all Hou Tian Shu practitioners that exist in the world today, providing you put in the regular practice hours with your Fu Fa Shen or whichever other immortal it is that you request the presence of!

Think about it for a moment. That's like Bruce Lee coming to your house to teach you Jeet Kune Do or Ip Man knocking on your door to teach you one on one Wing Chun. The difference is that with us Tao Yu, an Immortal comes to our house to teach us Immortality.

There is no faster or more effective way that I know of and I hope through this modest explanation that you all have a better appreciation for the gift we have been granted and hope you practice diligently to put the potential of your human existence to it's ultimate usage; that of your own self realization and liberation from the cycle of reincarnation.

I feel very lucky to have to come from a traditional Hou Tian Shu background, because I can now use my knowledge and experience to cultivate both from Earth to Heaven through JING conservation with body and mind celibacy a la Taoist Yoga and Heaven to Earth through Xiao Yao Pai, simultaneously.

Edited July 15, 2014 by effilang

[xor]

What is the UTUT-mantra?

[effilang]

It's an acronym for a mantra we use in our school to ward off strong Yin energy, especially from corpses.

After spiritual initiation a disciple will have the authority to manifest the energetic function of the mantra.

 

What is the UTUT-mantra?

Edited October 11, 2013 by effilang

[Moonbar]

When is the next London workshop?

[effilang]

When is the next London workshop?

 

Hoping to get it done around July of 2014

The EU website will be up by the start of the year so you can visit it for event details through my forum signature.

[Friend]

Summary:

 

Hou Tian takes long and is technical complicate or repetive.

 

Xiao Yao Pai is fast because of precision and

situation based exercise by guidance avoid danger

and wrong practise.

[zerostao]

effi,

i have to say that opening post is stunning and maybe one of the highest quality posts i have ever read here.

and that is saying alot. your knowledge about Taoism is obvious.

it is no accident that you were chosen to organize the london event.

i know that you and friend understand the value of TYS.

i could never have ever been able to express as you have. well done.

i still feel like folks are not getting this, i feel like a failure of sorts, in that i am not able to express in a way that will

get bums to notice that our way is beyond mind, beyond energy, we can get to wu chi and experience it

my words fail to explain fully, i can talk all i want about when i meditate i become just a floating cloud,

and empty isnt what one might have thought it was,and what the next dimension feels like,,

these are just my words and they are insufficient

to convey what i would like to express about TSM XYP TYS and FFS.

i tip my hat to you effi, i think you lay it out very nicely and certainly in a way beyond my capability

[effilang]

Thanks Zerostao,

 

Sadly words are also often not very effective, but that yet again is where our school stands out, since we provide evidence of the divine realm through personal experience from day one. The words are just a bonus with us

 

Beyond that point there isn't much else stopping the disciple but their self-doubt and ego.

[raimonio]

I for one find this system very interesting and would like to hear more discussion about it. It might however be, that since it is so different, people don't really know what to say

 

There are a few things I don't understand myself. So first you have shen qi and jing, then you turn qi into shen and there is left only shen and jing, then jing into shen and then there is only shen?

 

Also about the FFS, is it a spirit or an immortal or is it some part of you? I think it was established that it isn't a god or a deity. When he guides you do you do movements or is it also meditation in stillness, does he give you energy or transmissions or just guide your practice? What if you wanted to practice for 10hours every day, would this entity have the time for you? Does he always come for you when you start practicing?

 

It is interesting to hear that there could be other methods for immortality, not just the fire or water. Or Hou Tian. When you start thinking about it that there are hundreds of different legimate lineages, where they have been researching this issue for thousands of years, it makes sense that there would be many kinds of passage ways to the goal. In my practice everything happens on its own, which is also neat

 

Hope you guys have a nice journey with this stuff

[zerostao]

FFS is Fu Fak Shen which is a spirit guide and Shen Xian

the practice is guidance based. and not a spontaneous practice.

i am not the most well versed person in relation to proper Taoist terminology.

effilang and friend are both far superior to me in Taoist knowledge/terminology.

i cannot really say if it was an energy transmission or the result of doing the guidance practice

that has raised my subtle energies.

i can tell that at the initiation the energy was felt very strongly to the point that it overcame me,

the masters wife noticed and came to talk me thru it, she was sitting right beside me and i couldnt hear anything she said.

the energy was doing all the talking in my mind and at that moment there was nothing else,

very strong unexpected first impression that FFS made

the friend that went to the initiation with me was sitting nearby and he could hear her talking

the journey has been remarkable, if i openly told of some of these experiences, i feel that 96% would call bs on me,

but i have no need to bs, what would be gained? i am not selling anything

[effilang]

I for one find this system very interesting and would like to hear more discussion about it. It might however be, that since it is so different, people don't really know what to say

 

This is true. I had a discussion about that with a fellow practitioner recently.

There simply isn't a lot of information out there about genuine Xian Tian Tao Yin Xiu.

 

It is a very tiny part in the history of the art, that under which practitioners of the system have been granted authority to discuss some of it's details openly.

 

We were even making a joke about it a week ago, because a fellow Tao Yu recommended I write a book and I laughed and asked "why bother?" It would be 995 pages of Hou Tian and 5 pages Xian Tian.

 

Hou Tian Xiu can by mapped out linearly in an instructive format, such that once one has familiarized themselves with the instructions, they may sit and begin to practice and say "ok, first I start with A then move to B then C then D etc," but with Xian Tian Tao Yin Xiu, every individual practitioners path is completely complimentary to their condition of body, energy and spirit-mind.

 

One Tao Yu may skip 10 steps that another must do, and some may leap-frog ahead 10 years of others, while other's may be stuck in one place for just as long. It all depends entirely on the persons talents, the persons diligence and the current state of their 3 bodies at the time of initiation.

 

Because of this, right after initiation practitioners will be guided into different forms of meditation dependent on their current level of spiritual progress; thus your Immortal may guide you into moving meditation (seated), moving meditation (standing), postural meditation such as Zhan Zhuang (standing or seated), seated emptiness meditation to penetrate the Wuji. It may when necessary control your breath and direct your Qi in the body to perform certain tasks at the required times bearing in mind the micro and macro-cosmic timings of the heavenly bodies and the internal organs, meridians and energy fields etc.

 

It is all very, very personal. We do have a very detailed Xiu Tao flowchart which outlines and describes all the hallmarks of our schools cultivation path from Beginner to Immortal, but this is very superficial in comparison to every practitioners personal experience.

 

There are a few things I don't understand myself. So first you have shen qi and jing, then you turn qi into shen and there is left only shen and jing, then jing into shen and then there is only shen?

 

It's not that complicated. The process of transmutation is reversed.

During Hou Tian Xiu, we use low vibrational resources derived from Earth, Air, Food, Drink and Hormones to build Jing.

 

Jing is the foundation in Hou Tian Xiu.

When plenty, the Jing is then refined to Qi, the Qi later to Shen and the Shen to Wuji.

 

In Xian Tian Xiu, we use high vibrational resources derived from Heaven through our school and by absorbing the essence of the Sun, Moon and the heavenly bodies that vibrate at the Shen and Wuji level.

 

Shen is the foundation in Hou Tian Xiu.

When plenty, the Shen is then refined to Qi and the Qi to Jing.

 

On a side note, another one of our recent Tao Yu and a close friend of mine whom I personally invited to the initiation has also recently separated his Shen from his body and was able to travel to familiar places around London. Although his spirit is still in Taiji and not in Wuji. To enter Wuji requires that the spirit undergo a lot of transformation and this is inevitably achieved through Jing Zuo; sitting and forgetting / emptiness meditation.

 

The reason why our Tao Yu are able to achieve Yin Shen skill so quickly is because our Bai Hui is activated during initiation.

 

Yin Shen is not something extraordinary. It is a minor spiritual skill and even non spiritualists can achieve it by modifying their consciousness through drug use or OBE practices.

 

Building the Yang Shen / The Indestructible Immortal Spirit is a process which takes much longer, but we don't start from Jing to Qi to Shen. In our school the priority is the Spirit's transformation, so immediately after/during initiation we begin to refine Yang Shen and every practice thereafter, when we practice at home or anywhere else will advance the refinement of Yang Shen.

 

In Hou Tian Xiu, after the Yang Shen is born, because it is still a baby, It is weak and vulnerable.

If the practitioner were to die while the Yang Shen was in such a state I fear the possibility that It may be attacked by other spirits or demon and could be destroyed, dissolving all progress up until now.

 

In our school, because every Tao Yu is enveloped in the divine golden aura received from Tai Shang Lao Jun, even if we died and our Yang Shen was still in an infant stage of development, we could continue to develop in the divine realm under the guidance of our Immortal teachers, without the fear of spiritual attacks. The golden aura protects us and so does our Fu Fa Shen. We may call on it for spiritual refinement or to aid us and help us with our daily lives.

 

This is the very reason why less than a month for one case and 2 months later for another Tao Yu, they were able to freely and fearlessly explore the environment and even far away areas with their Yin Shen, knowing they are under protection from demonic attacks and possessions.

 

I would otherwise be afraid to do so. I say this, because of the experiences I've had with demons attacking me during sleep paralysis.

 

I believe there are two types of dream states:

 

During the first the Hun retreat to the Liver and the Po to the Lungs and the imaginings of the dream state take place in the mental consciousness of the brain. The dream takes place in the body and the soul(s) remain within. The shell is full.

 

During the second, either then Hun and Po both leave the body or the Hun OR the Po leave the body and travel away to distant realms to experience genuine interactions with other worlds and beings, not of the mind. The soul(s) leave the body. The shell is empty.

 

If you speak to a lot of practitioners they will tell you that when they are exploring with their Yin Shen their body is in a state of paralysis. They can see themselves sitting and meditating or laying down or however they were positioned prior to separating their Yin Shen from the body.

 

It is exactly at this very point that I've found people are likely to experience demon's of the night and It is of my strong belief that these demons take advantage of the empty shell to attempt possession. I think this is why whenever you her testimonies of sleep paralysis, they are often accompanied by the demon weighing down on your back or chest. It has only happened to me during sleep paralysis when the Yin Shen is out of the body.

 

This explains why I always observed the events from a birds-eye view and why I could see both my body and that of the demon fully.

 

My mother whom is also an initiated Tao Yu works in a care-home, where she just started work.

The other day she met a patient whom had a very depressed and sad demeanour. She asked him "what's the matter?." The patient kept shying away and trying to avoid the topic, but my mum could sense something was the matter. She poked a little more and the patient finally admitted that they were scared they'd think they were crazy or something if he shared his concerns. She managed to get close enough and the patient finally disclosed that every night a demon would come to their bed and weigh down on them. It felt like it was both pulling and sucking them and weighting down with a very strong gravity at the same time. They could never sleep, because of the fear of the experience every night and had sleep deprivation.

 

My mother used a mantra from our school to disperse any Yin influences in the vicinity and said she would come back to check on them tomorrow.

 

Well she did and they patient said It was the first time since moving to the care home that they had a normal night's sleep. Demon free.

 

Some people with developed talents, whether in this life time or a prior can easily slip out of the body during sleep to explore other places and are very often due to this victims of demonic attempts of possession.

 

They don't seem to attack when the spirit of these spirit travellers is still in the body and I would imagine it is because the said person has a very strong spirit. You would need one to be able to slip out of the body of your own volition. I think these demon's wait exactly for that and then they try to weaken the physical body somehow or to sever the connection between the body and the adventuring spirit in order to occupy the shell.

 

Anyhoo. Just rambling : )

 

Also about the FFS, is it a spirit or an immortal or is it some part of you? I think it was established that it isn't a god or a deity.

 

If you refine your Yang Shen enough during this life time, when you die you can go to the divine realm and be a Fu Fa Shen to your grand children or great grand children or perform other duties in heaven. You would be a Shen Xian too then. An immortal spirit or a god. There are different levels of divine status and the term god does not refer to only one of these levels.

 

There are lower gods, middle gods, higher gods and all sorts in between those. But for all intensive purposes one who practices as a human and created the Yang Shen body by merging the Hun and Po is considered a Taoist God. That could be you if you practice diligently or it could be someone else.

 

Bear in mind however that there are those humans that refine from an earthly state into a heavenly state to become a Shen Xian, but there are also Tian Xian or heavenly immortals who have always existed as immortals or gods and did not start from a physical form, but one can get to this state of their own effort as well.

 

Gui Xian > Ren Xian > Di Xian > Shen Xian > Tian Xian

 

 

When he guides you do you do movements or is it also meditation in stillness, does he give you energy or transmissions or just guide your practice?

 

I'll speak for myself and for the Tao Yu whom are close to me and say that it's all of the above.

 

like I said whether you are moved or not depends on where you are in your practice. To develop the consciousness and awareness required to enter the Wuji we need to practice a lot of sitting meditation.

 

Since the initiation, I feel like I am hooked up to a constant and very strong source of energy.

When we invite an immortal to practice with us during the day or night and they then begin to move your body, energy and mind the interaction and force of this energy influence increases.

 

For example, during the day I will feel Qi moving around in different place. Sometimes it feels like a hand reaches into some part of my body and tweaks something. Imagine a hand, but no bones or muscles or tendons or anything physical, just energy. Then it reaches into your body and interacts with an organ or the Qi flow in a meridian. Sometimes it feels like that for me, and that's before I've actually invited an immortal to guide me.

 

Yesterday after I finished practice which consisted of my regular Yi Jin Jing and 5 organ forms, I asked my Fu Fa Shen if it would please continue to refine me while I sleep in whatever way possible...

 

Well.. Let's put it this way. I didn't sleep all night hahaha.

 

I was being thrown around like a rag doll in the bed, in all sorts of positions and mudras.

I quite literally felt like I was a fish in a frying pan and it was just flipping me around.

 

The immortal is so strong that it can just flip me from a lying tummy position to on your back in one go.

I feel like I don't even roll. It just picks me up and spins me. And when it moves my hand it does it at such a speed like I know I could never achieve with my own musculoskeletal system. I feel like the flash.

 

In fact. My hand moves and reaches it's destination before my mind realizes it has moved.

At first It was a very strange feeling, but then I realized it makes perfect sense that my brain would lag with the information since it wasn't me initiating the movement. It had to catch up a little.

 

Yes. I know It all sounds a little strange, but the reality of authentic spiritual cultivation is such.

It's filled with the supernatural and unexplained. We like to keep this stuff between Tao Yu, because when we say it to someone else, they label us crazy and put us in the loony bin.

 

But you know how the saying goes: I awoke only to find out that everyone else was still asleep.

 

What if you wanted to practice for 10 hours every day, would this entity have the time for you? Does he always come for you when you start practising?

 

The immortal is... super-conscious, all pervasive. To it the past, present and future are one. But what you must understand is that our OWN physical bodies do not vibrate at that level of existence. Our organs and meridians and Qi flow wax and wane in accordance with the moon and sun and forces of the earth and other influences. We tire, we exhaust ourselves and we need rest.

 

Everyone's body can take a different amount of stress. I say stress, because during Tao Yin many of the exercises can be very exhausting. For example, my mothers Fu Fa Shen always forces her into really tough Yoga Poses, that I wouldn't want to try. When it let's her go, she is often sweating and just wants to go to sleep directly, because she is so tired.

 

It all depends on your endurance, but like I said our bodies work on timings. Often FFS will need to wait and hand pick a certain timing in order to create a specific effect in the body. This means that It may ask you to perform a certain exercise at a specific time to help advance a healing or refinement process in your body.

 

This is the advantage of authentic Xian Tian Tao Yin Xiu. You have an immortal there to tweak you EXACTLY when you need to be tweaked. It's the difference in cultivation between rubbing two wet stick together to make fire and using a magnifying glass with the sun.

 

It's strange to say if it comes for you. Because it's literally beyond speed and time and distance. The moment you think of it, It's already there.

 

Immortals have a skill which allows them to replicate themselves over and over again.

This means that It can be in many places and guiding many students and performing many tasks at once.

 

It is your personal teacher and friend.

 

In my experience FFS will leave you when it determines that your body is too tired to sustain the task at hand.

Or it will leave you when it has reached it's desired effect for that time or place.

 

Often a lot of the "issues" which it addresses and heals during practice are complex and cannot be fixed in one go.

So during one session it may fix 10%, then it may need to come back again when the timing of the organ or meridian or sun and moon is right to push it from 10% to 20%. Then maybe it will wait for 4 months without doing anything, because it needs to wait for the right alignment of criteria again, then it will advance the refinement from 20% to 50% etc.

 

It will intelligently do what needs to be done with absolute wisdom in action in order to bring about the state and result necessary to elevate you to the next step in cultivating the Tao.

 

It is interesting to hear that there could be other methods for immortality, not just the fire or water. Or Hou Tian. When you start thinking about it that there are hundreds of different legimate lineages, where they have been researching this issue for thousands of years, it makes sense that there would be many kinds of passage ways to the goal. In my practice everything happens on its own, which is also neat

 

Indeed it is all very interesting. I believe one would have great success when being well educated in both Hou Tian and Xian Tian cultivation methods. This will allow the practitioner to safely refine the Jing (body) while refining the Shen (spirit-mind) and thus meet in the middle Qi (energy)

 

Hope you guys have a nice journey with this stuff

 

Thank you kindly.

May you be blessed in your cultivation : )

Edited October 28, 2013 by effilang

[raimonio]

It is nice to hear about these experiences, I don't think you are crazy. It's more like, if a spiritual world exists, then its gonna be some crazy stuff. So it isn't about whether there is crazy stuff or not, it's just whether you believe in a spiritual world in the first place. I have had enough experiences that I am fairly certain it does

 

There was some guy on a thread who mentioned this book "The Siren Calling of the Hungry Ghosts" or something like that.. I listened to a podcast where they summed it up. Man that was some scary stuff. I realized that I have also had those experiences when having sleep paralysis, like there were these evil entities doing some sick stuff, it was so horrible. I used to be all for getting the experience of leaving your body but it is truly not a wise plan, unless you have that aura or have done some serious spiritual practice before

 

Yea I also started wondering whether it could be possible to combine Hou Tian and Xian Tian and then make them meet in the middle or something like that. Cool stuff

 

Thank you

[xor]

Since there seems to quite an emphasis on initiations in XYP, would you say it's possible to work with this system without the physical initiation? I know connections of this nature are best transmitted in person but how much of a difference is there between non-initiate and initiate?

[Ish]

So, in XYP, to evolve to Yang Shen the core method is simply Jing Zuo?

 

And i suppose the Fu Fak Shen guided practice you do is clearing channels & refilling jing qi and shen so that eventually one can actually do the Jing Zuo correctly?

Edited October 30, 2013 by Ish

[Friend]

So, in XYP, to evolve to Yang Shen the core method is simply Jing Zuo?

 

And i suppose the Fu Fak Shen guided practice you do is clearing channels & refilling jing qi and shen so that eventually one can actually do the Jing Zuo correctly?

In XYP one is guided to do whatever it takes

to reach optimum. The guided practise can be

everthing from movement, to no movement

from standing to sitting to movement.

The order can be different.

 

It depends on the base one the particullary day

and time, place, state on is when one

do practise by opening with the lineages prayer.

The FFS choose the most optimal practise

and in the other post Effilang had post

the main purpose is to choose the balance

and bring you into the best form.

 

But the first and most important of the FFS is

to put one to the point to direct talk

and communicate with ones FFS.

Which is needed to progress in the cultivation

towards the Tao in this lineage by opening

the deeper layers in the inside energy body.

 

One actually has to do with a Wu Wei method

like Stillness Movement Lineage.

[opendao]

Hou Tian and Xian Tian are very important and ancient principles of Dao. But all classic books teach us that the transformation to Yang Shen is possible ONLY through refining 3 pre-Heaven (xiantian) treasures. And yes, the order has to be Jing - Qi - Shen, it's not like Lego bricks

Just curious, if in your school people learn directly from Shen Xian Teacher (who knows all such things for sure and directly, just because of his/her status), why the theory is different?

[zerostao]

Since there seems to quite an emphasis on initiations in XYP, would you say it's possible to work with this system without the physical initiation? I know connections of this nature are best transmitted in person but how much of a difference is there between non-initiate and initiate?

xor, i dont see how one could work with the system without the initiation.

the initiation is where you connect with Shen Xian FFS

[effilang]

 

Hou Tian and Xian Tian are very important and ancient principles of Dao. But all classic books teach us that the transformation to Yang Shen is possible ONLY through refining 3 pre-Heaven (xiantian) treasures. And yes, the order has to be Jing - Qi - Shen, it's not like Lego bricks

Just curious, if in your school people learn directly from Shen Xian Teacher (who knows all such things for sure and directly, just because of his/her status), why the theory is different?

 

San Bao are interdependent.

 

If you nourish the JING it will nourish the QI. If you nourish the QI it will nourish the SHEN - Hou Tian Xiu

If you nourish the SHEN it will nourish the Qi. If you nourish the QI it will nourish the JING - Xian Tian Xiu

 

The best way I can explain it is through an image so here, I made one for you.

 

When the cultivation is Heaven to Earth - Heavenly Energy is fed into the system to trigger the transmutation.

When the cultivation is Earth to Heaven - Earth Energy is fed into the system to trigger the transmutation.

 

Edited November 1, 2013 by effilang

[Friend]

xor, i dont see how one could work with the system without the initiation.

the initiation is where you connect with Shen Xian FFS

 

One can with own effort mediation and

drop into the state where one can communicate

with own spiritual guides who are mostly

not on the same level as an FFS.

 

I feel you know the difference Zeros.

 

The spirit guides are there mostly only

offering some information and guidance

through events and can give one gift of powers

on rare occasion and else will complete

based on free will be bystander and accompany

with their presence until one can communicate

directly with them.

 

A FFS is following the listening of the Tao and

will act arcorddingly and will act right from the start

to establish communication because it is official

by the lineage.

 

It is like different access to the same person.

Depending what lineage and person

call a being, depending on the lineages relationship

and the person relationship with the being

what the being can and will do is based who is the being dealing with.

 

Like in real life.

Depending in which society one is the person will see people different.

You are still you but the role you get by joining the society affect

the way others seeing.

When one is police officer, people step back and behave subconcious,

even when this man is 2 head shorter and 80 years old.

But if this same person is a backyard cleaner, then one can see a different reaction.

 

So if one belong to the lineage one gain privilege and different access.

That is what the initiatation is. Offical acknowlege in the spirit realm

for having specific duties and belonging to a specific order and

access to specific powers.

 

This make the spririt realm know how to behave in front of you.

Else one is like someone who ask somebody else on a street for a favour,

he may help, but mostly because of law enforced for outsiders the help

is limited.

[zerostao]

yes friend, i was addressing xor's question about working with the XYP school directly.

and since the initiation i feel a different vibration, a different energy.

ultimately, it is me that does the exercises but they are guided by FFS.

and you are right that one can on their own potentially find spirit guides.

and each of those instances can be truly remarkable and amazing experiences and progress can be made.

but with FFS it is different thing and i like the way you explain it.

[opendao]

San Bao are interdependent.

 

If you nourish the JING it will nourish the QI. If you nourish the QI it will nourish the SHEN - Hou Tian Xiu

If you nourish the SHEN it will nourish the Qi. If you nourish the QI it will nourish the JING - Xian Tian Xiu

 

 

Such ideas are common in modern Qigong that tries to look as Neidan and uses the same terminology. But it has to be clear, that in Neidan (in ANY orthodox school), the transformation to Yangshen is possible ONLY using Xian Tian. This difference is highlighted by many teachers of the past, and I don't see any reasons to doubt what they wrote in classic books.

 

And Three Treasures all have to be Xian Tian as well, and they are explicitly named as Yuan Qi, Yuan Jing and Yuan Shen. There is no Hou Tian practices in Dao, even in the beginning. Using Qigong (=Hou Tian method) people can attain only Gui Xian level (= Yin Shen = ghost). That's the most. And it's not easy, it's not just a fantasy OBE.

[Aetherous]

opendao,

Where do you get your information from? It'd be cool to read a book with the path more clearly laid out like this.

effilang,

Your descriptions of your path, and the picture you made, are both awesome.

[opendao]

opendao,

 

Where do you get your information from? It'd be cool to read a book with the path more clearly laid out like this.

 

There are some books translated to English. You can start with this one: http://www.goldenelixir.com/jindan/wm_stages.html

There is no lack of information, but now everything is mixed with anything, so it's hard to find the truth. If you can read Chinese I would recommend to start with Wu-Liu Pai compendium. But without a teacher it is still hard to grasp. Neidan is a really complex science

[effilang]

I've read all those several times over and have never found them to be in conflict with what is considered to be "conventional" Hou Tian practice.

[opendao]

I've read all those several times over and have never found them to be in conflict with what is considered to be "conventional" Hou Tian practice.

 

Just one small thing: there is no Hou Tian practice in Neidan