Immortality: Yin & Yang or Pure Yang ?!

[Brian]

Who says humans or their souls aren't edible?

 

Of course humans are edible! There's even a book on the topic floating around somewhere...

 

 

[Thunder_Gooch]

Plants sure. There's a hierarchy to the Kingdom. Things here on Earth are to sustain is so that we can grow. Not the way we are growing now of course. We aren't much different than a virus in our current state. What my post was meant to do was bring us back down to reality. No matter how many levels you gain you will never be God. This immortality obsession is us wanting to be God. IMuneducatedO.

You said these masters energy wasn't their own, but energy they extracted from the environment.

 

I just reminded you the energy that is animating your consciousness right now is not your own, you took it from beings that were killed so that you could eat and absorb them.

 

That's reality.

 

Survival and evolution are my primary goals as an organism.

Edited October 19, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[BaguaKicksAss]

So the one important thing to take away from all of this is that the energy that all these über masters are using isn't really theirs. They increase by pulling in an external energy. I don't have a degree in mopology so...ya know..jus sayin.

 

I see it more as training the body to produce (and store what is produced) its own of like kind. This is from my experience and understanding so far.

 

I think the abilities or powers of the folks are their ability to actually train this, store what is needed (their own or external) and actually utilize it properly.

 

Nothing wrong with grabbing qi of various sorts from stuff around us, sun, moon, earth, trees though.... I drink water and eat fruit too :>.

[BaguaKicksAss]

 

Your body isn't really yours. You stole it. Killed other living beings and ate their dead bodies and assimilated them into you.

 

I had to look twice when I first saw this .

 

Edit: yes there was more on the end...

Edited October 28, 2013 by BaguaKicksAss

[TheDustAutumn]

.

Edited January 27, 2015 by coZma

[Wells]

.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

-----

"Your body isn't really yours. You stole it. Killed other living beings and ate their dead bodies and assimilated them into you. Plants used solar energy, soil, water, air, etc to store it away in the first place."

-----

 

In fact, we are eating the entire Earth and cosmos - from the iron core of the Earth, through the metals and minerals of the crust like sodium and potassium, to water and oxygen at the surface, to proteins, fats, carbohydrates, heat and gases in the air, and various forms of vibration including solar and cosmic radiation, plasma, subatomic particles and cosmic rays from Deep space.

 

And the evolution of Earth life is seen in miniature during our gestation - water life, vertabrates, amphibians, mammals, and we reach the primate stage at birth, then develop as humans in our life.

 

In the womb, it is all dark. We are born into a world of half light and half dark, and then we are born in a world of all light.

 

Our "food" evolved before us. All animal life comes from the vegetal. During galactic summer, the vegetal was big and full of liquid, and we were "dinosaurs". Then, in galactic autumn plants and their fruits contracted. Eating these, we became mammals. When the fruits of recently evolved plants contracted even further into galactic autumn, into seeds and grains, we ate these and became "apes" and further, "Mankind".

 

We are already Immortal. Our normal lives are Immortal.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Wells]

.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[TheDustAutumn]

.

Edited January 27, 2015 by coZma

[Wells]

.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[Wells]

.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

There are methods and schools, mostly taoist, which claim that the state of immortality is defined as a state of pure yang. A human is both yin & yang and has to get rid of all yin or change it to yang to become an immortal. Taichi is taoist and incorporates only the absorption of yang chi (heaven chi), at least according to Chen Man Ching.

Gods, Buddhas and Immortals are considered as "heavenly" beings who are therefore pure yang.

 

Buddhist lineagues in China see yin chi as low or even dirty chi and as the chi of earth-bound gui (ghosts, devils).

 

Other schools and traditions like the Mo Pai teach the absorption of both yang chi from heaven and yin chi from earth and to fuse those together in the process of becoming immortal.

John Chang confirms yin chi as the medium to get access to the ghost world.

 

Who's right? What method is better to become an immortal?

 

 

I'd say utilization of both yin and yang would be correct for an ulterior goal of immortality, divinity, or otherwise "super-human" states of being.

 

It seems to me that *All* is a better objective than *picky choosy*, when it comes to (becoming) something <Greater-than<Human.

 

Omni-Dao, not just yin or yang.

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

-----

"Please don't answer completely off-topic to an already completely-off-topic post."

-----

 

I'm sorry. I truly thought my post to be on-topic.

 

Not necessarily obvious, but I did think it to be relevent. It represents, to me, a different scope in considering the initial inquiry about yang chi - yin chi in "Immortality Cultivation" such as may be seen in the Secret of the Golden Flower and other sources.

 

I do apologize if my post was, or even seemed to be, irrelevant.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Infinity]

immortality is pure Yang but that is just a word infact its not describable its beyond words or mind. FACT! :-)

[TheDustAutumn]

.

Edited January 27, 2015 by coZma

[MooNiNite]

John Chang, in his alchemical process uses houtian qi to house his consciousness(xiantian) after death while taoist imortals make the yang(xiantian or precelestial energy) self suficient. If what is written about him is correct I believe John chang never goes beyond what is called "earth immortal' where precelestial and postcelestial energies coexist.

 

i think you are right. But, I wonder if it is affecting his ability to build light body. Do you think it is possible that his lower dantien fusion is somehow preventing him from going beyond earth immortal?

[Wells]

.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[Antares]

Thank you again for the great informations!

To "lay the foundation", would you recommend the method as described in the book "Taoist Yoga - Alchemy and Immortality" for replenishing yuan shen and yuan chi?

Or would you recommend another method?

 

In the book you mentioned initial state of practice is skipped and its translation is not accurate. No alchemical method can be transmitted through the book or even video. You have look for teacher but not book

[Wells]

.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[Antares]

The Secret Of The Golden Flower for example was written especially for lay people as a manual to achieve enlightenment in a very direct way, comrade.

 

Bible was written for lay people as a manual to achieve the state of Christ (pure yang). Do you know anybody who achieved this state without teacher? I mean all texts are written only for 2 sorts of people:

 

1) For internal disciples

2) For lay people

 

First sort of people get transmission under teacher's personal supervision and texts are written as manual only. The meaning of symbols cannot be realized without teachers explanation and transmission because of the method never has been disclosed in a book. All lay people will never realize the meaning of symbols without these explanations. An interpreter will not be able to translate all meanings correctly and thus there will be mistakes which will be very sufficient. Anyway as i have mentioned initial practices were skipped in this book. You can't skip them to achieve goals described there. Is there anything about laying the foundation in the book? Is there initial houtian method described?

 

These texts never were aimed to be written for second sort of people as direct manual but only as a direction for further search of a teacher and were issued only for theoretical insights in order to have ability to distinguish traditional and corrupt practices.

 

 

But I'm open for your suggestions anyway

 

I will repeat it again - look for the teacher. But if you still can not find good teacher who teaches neidan you can practice houtian methods as preparation to neidan. But NO books here again. It could be some forms of taichichuan or other IMA methods but it's better to find good teacher who learned it in China. In Wu Liu Pai school there is Open Tao (tao gong) qigong which is based on IMA methods which have alchemical foundation and aimed to give ability nourish and balance post-heaven qi. Somewhat similar practice I saw on Waysun Liao' DVD.

 

 

Edited January 6, 2015 by Antares

[Wu Ming Jen]

Immortality transcends the laws of Yin and Yang. Using the temporal body, mixing "this", "that" is located here is maybe a waste of time or a beginning method that needs to be dropped. The primordial is more important in this context. The laws of yin and yang only apply to all things with a physical form. The non physical is unaffected.

 

We can not force a flower to bloom the process requires no force or effort. We did not have to do anything to acquire the original spirit. What we have done has caused the original spirit to become the guest of its own house. Being guest gives up ownership and responsibility of being a divine spirit. We become mortal in this world if the error is not corrected.

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

-----

"The laws of yin and yang only apply to all things with a physical form. The non physical is unaffected."

-----

 

I understand the context here, but this is just not true.

 

-----

"What we have done has caused the original spirit to become the guest of its own house. Being guest gives up ownership and responsibility of being a divine spirit. We become mortal in this world if the error is not corrected."

-----

 

In fact, we have abstracted ourselves from natural order.

 

This started as a survival tactic, especially in the North and NorthWest during the last ice age.

 

Adjustments made for conditions long ago were retained when it was found that they also caused side-effects that diminished people's opposition to being governed. These were then implemented and developed further into the situations we see today.

 

The same thing also shows our freedom, if we use that.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[子泰]

lu dong bin is pretty straightforward in the secret of the golden flower, the instructions are pretty direct if you spent some time reading any scripture. the book itself contains the transmission as well, but the problem is that the book and teachings get watered down/changed and the transmission gets lost. in that way, a teacher with real achievement is needed. the secret of the golden flower does give instructions of foundation, btw; something about 100 days or something

[Wells]

.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[Antares]

Btw, I would be interested why the Wu-Liu Pai interpret Xing as Yin and Ming as Yang (compared to each other)?

coZma claimed the contrary as the view of taoist alchemy.

 

Because Xing is spirit-soul (enlightened) and Ming is innate body energy. Soul will be more in Yin state without fullness of Ming. That' why Ming Gong precedes Xing Gong. Xing Gong as described in the book without Ming Gong will only dissipate Ming (Yang) and a person can reach only some state of stillness but if one's Ming is not full it will lead to out-of-body experience which in turn will cause more Yang energy dissipation.

You can read what taoist Liu YiMing wrote about this:

 

http://www.goldenelixir.com/jindan/cultivating_the_tao_19.html

Without a method for protecting and guarding this, the Yang necessarily culminates and generates the Yin; wholeness culminates and becomes lacking. Those who know this hasten to seek the oral instructions of an enlightened master. Without waiting for the birth of Yin, they use the method of "keeping one's form intact by means of the Tao." They set the natural True Fire in motion, and refine the Yin breath of the entire body; they use the Yin instead of being used by the Yin, and achieve efficacy in the postcelestial.⁽⁴⁾ When the Yin is exhausted and the Yang is pure, they live a long life free from death.

 

So the initial stage is to nourish Yang energy in motion (doing) but not by seating (no doing).

 

 

As for inferior virtue, after the Yang culminates and the Yin is born, the precelestial is dispersed. The five agents are divided from one another, the four images are not in harmony, and all of the precious things are lost. If you cultivate this state by the way of "non-doing," it would be as if in the tripod there is no Seed; what is the purpose of using water and fire to boil an empty pot?⁽⁵⁾ You must "steal ☞ Yin and Yang," "seize creation and transformation," and return from the postcelestial to the precelestial.⁽⁶⁾ Only then can that old thing from times past be recovered: it had gone but now it returns, and comes again into your complete possession.

 

Inferior virtue is lack of pure Yang energy of the body (Ming).

 

 

After you recover that original thing and the foundation of your Existence is firm, you should again set up the furnace and the tripod, and perform the way of non-doing. By "nourishing warmly" the Embryo of Sainthood (shengtai), in ten months the Breath (qi) becomes plentiful, and you deliver the dharma-body (fashen). Then this road has led to the same destination as superior virtue

 

 

 

 

That would be what kind of practice if I might ask?

I can't think of an initial practice "skipped" in the book regarding Xing Gong,

but concerning Ming Gong I could imagine that it would be useful to add an initial practice

"to add chi from the inner organs & blood into the mix", so to speak

 

In the beginning one must refine organ's energy and improve qi circulation. This is done in motion. Thus this is initial stage in Wu Liu and YuXian schools which initial practices I am a bit familar with. That' all I can add to it.

You can't just add something to your own practice. You will have to follow to instructions of a teacher otherwise no one will teach you. But you can do what you like personally, that will be your choice