Immortality: Yin & Yang or Pure Yang ?!

[TheDustAutumn]

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Edited January 27, 2015 by coZma

[Wells]

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Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[Taoist Texts]

"Taoist Yoga - Alchemy and Immortality" it starts you somewhere in the middle of the practice so no.

 

so this must be a personal unsubstantiated opinion

 

because the author says in the preface

 

今将所得于师及自己所曾经验者，尽情宣布。

 

Now， what I received from teachers and experienced myself, I publish sincerely and widely.

http://www.xiulian.com/XMZHF/FJMZH/000qfxy.htm

[Wells]

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Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[Antares]

Well, the basic initial practice in WuLiu is described here: http://all-dao.com/jiuyangshengong.html

 

NO ONE can skip it. Only if one has superior virtue one would be able to practice further method. All information about further methods are closed.

 

In Taoist Yoga book initial methods are skipped and translation is no good. That what WLP people say.

 

Personally I cant recommend to practice ANYTHING from books. It' always better practicing according to traditional approach beginning from basic methods. First one need to balance body and mind and there are two methods based on postheaven and preheaven mechanism. Preheaven methods are very rare nowadays. Only two taoist schools agreed to teach foreigners and not everybody happy with it in China. So I see here two options:

 

1. Guessing, arguing, chatting and blah blah blah...

2. Practicing.

 

No words can help much. All the best

[MooNiNite]

there is no separation between pre-heaven and post-heaven methods

[Taoist Texts]

The preface is written by the translator / interviewer (Charles Luk / Lu K'uan Yü), not by the master (Zhao Bichen) who explains the practice of his school (‘Qianfeng Xian Tian Pai’ (千峰仙天派)) in the book.

Zhao Bichen was member of the Wu Liu Pai school (and others) before creating his own.

The position of the Wu Liu Pai school is, as far as I'm informed, that that the method of Zhao Bichen's school "does not contain the full transmission" or complete method used in the Wu Liu Pai school.

thats all must be true but the insubstantiated claim was that the book is deficient regardless of any school.

[Infinity]

Hi

 

In answer the opening point, this is my understanding.

 

You are already immortal my friends ask Dawg.

 

Nothing more can be added or taken away that will make you more or less. No amount of yang or yin. No amount of more or less chi or Shen, filling, mixing or fixing will help you. :-)

 

Know that absoloutley everything is ok right now and all your actions to be 'immortal' are really just acts of unlove to avoid yourself understanding this truth and reality. Ask Dawg.

 

The only problem is that you are avidly holding onto the illusion of being mortal and other illusions probably. And this is conditioning in your unconcious mind.

 

Guess what? You are in your unconcious mind right now but don't realise it!

 

Your asleep!

 

Guess what? I really love you all of you!

 

And that is from deep within my heart!

 

Peter S

[MooNiNite]

Hi

 

In answer the opening point, this is my understanding.

 

You are already immortal my friends ask Dawg.

 

Nothing more can be added or taken away that will make you more or less. No amount of yang or yin. No amount of more or less chi or Shen, filling, mixing or fixing will help you. :-)

 

Know that absoloutley everything is ok right now and all your actions to be 'immortal' are really just acts of unlove to avoid yourself understanding this truth and reality. Ask Dawg.

 

The only problem is that you are avidly holding onto the illusion of being mortal and other illusions probably. And this is conditioning in your unconcious mind.

 

Guess what? You are in your unconcious mind right now but don't realise it!

 

Your asleep!

 

Guess what? I really love you all of you!

 

And that is from deep within my heart!

 

Peter S

 

so if you woke up what would you be doing? running a marathon? playing video games? creating a book?

or maybe...

just maybe...

you would be studying ancient Chinese theories of consciousness expansion

[Infinity]

Hi MooNiNite,

 

Currently I am working at a computer in an advertising agency in Canary Wharf London. :-) All very normal. A bit of Indesign and Photoshop on some DM that marketing speak for Direct Marketing. :-)

 

Still have a few final adjustments to make before my crysalis breaks open, avoided it last night as I was a little scared but then I will make some conscious dimensional shifts and have a little look around!

 

Marathons are not my bag or video games a book on a word game maybe, certainly some path notes. Going to raise my two young boys and 11 month old girl for sure.

 

Got to get back to some DM.

 

Are you awake?

Edited January 8, 2015 by Infinity

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

thoughts:

Pure Yang cannot die
Pure Yin cannot live
Weak balance is life leading into death.
Strong balance is to die without perishing - to live even after death.

What about "types" of immortality?

Is the immortal is lesser than the deity? Is the deity lesser than God? Is God lesser than Dao?

Dao is supposedly the image which preceeds god afterall.

[Antares]

Hi

 

In answer the opening point, this is my understanding.

 

You are already immortal my friends ask Dawg.

 

Nothing more can be added or taken away that will make you more or less. No amount of yang or yin. No amount of more or less chi or Shen, filling, mixing or fixing will help you. :-)

 

Know that absoloutley everything is ok right now and all your actions to be 'immortal' are really just acts of unlove to avoid yourself understanding this truth and reality. Ask Dawg.

 

The only problem is that you are avidly holding onto the illusion of being mortal and other illusions probably. And this is conditioning in your unconcious mind.

 

Guess what? You are in your unconcious mind right now but don't realise it!

 

Your asleep!

 

Guess what? I really love you all of you!

 

And that is from deep within my heart!

 

Peter S

This is new agey theory bro. Read the book The Secret of the Golden Flower where is disclosed another theory on what happens after death. Our spirit is immortal but individuality dies completely. Taoism is about how to become immortal preserving individual features after death.

[Wells]

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Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[MooNiNite]

i'm actually confident Infinity understands the basics of Taoist immortal, he is just giving a different perspective

 

Hi

In answer the opening point, this is my understanding.

You are already immortal my friends ask Dawg.

Nothing more can be added or taken away that will make you more or less. No amount of yang or yin. No amount of more or less chi or Shen, filling, mixing or fixing will help you. :-)

Know that absoloutley everything is ok right now and all your actions to be 'immortal' are really just acts of unlove to avoid yourself understanding this truth and reality. Ask Dawg.

The only problem is that you are avidly holding onto the illusion of being mortal and other illusions probably. And this is conditioning in your unconcious mind.

Guess what? You are in your unconcious mind right now but don't realise it!

Your asleep!

Guess what? I really love you all of you!

And that is from deep within my heart!

Peter S

 

also, thanks for your perspective, i appreciate hearing this, getting caught up in cultivation systems sometimes causes us to limit ourselves, forgetting the origin of the systems in the first place.

[Infinity]

This is new agey theory bro. Read the book The Secret of the Golden Flower where is disclosed another theory on what happens after death. Our spirit is immortal but individuality dies completely. Taoism is about how to become immortal preserving individual features after death.

 

In answer to the new agey question.

 

Please read this carefully and you will have complete understanding:

 

New><old

[Infinity]

i'm actually confident Infinity understands the basics of Taoist immortal, he is just giving a different perspective

 

 

also, thanks for your perspective, i appreciate hearing this, getting caught up in cultivation systems sometimes causes us to limit ourselves, forgetting the origin of the systems in the first place.

 

MooNiNite,

 

Thanks for your thanks. A positive makes a positive.

 

Soon I will be vibrating beyond time and space and will be everywhere and everything but can choose to see it all or only one and so will you. Rainbow body? If you want but that is no probs. I could create galaxies! And,

 

I am><am not

 

In actuality 'no time at all'.

 

Just like this

 

Time><no time

Space><no space

Understanding><confusion

New><old

Reality><illusion

Love><hate

Complete><incomplete

Happy><sad

Balance><imbalance

Gratitude><rudeness

 

 

Edited January 9, 2015 by Infinity

[Infinity]

Exactly. This is what many people don't understand.

 

 

Hey Neo,

 

Wake up!

 

New><old

Reality><illusion

Understanding><ignorance

Love><hate

Complete><incomplete

Happy><sad

 

Have a nice day!

Edited January 9, 2015 by Infinity

[MooNiNite]

Soon I will be vibrating beyond time and space and will be everywhere and everything but can choose to see it all or only one and so will you.

 

are you talking about some type of global shift here? or do i misunderstand?

[Infinity]

are you talking about some type of global shift here? or do i misunderstand?

 

Yes MASSIVE, you'll see...

 

Delusion is in our unconscious minds just ask Dawg! or TaoMaster or Me!

 

Just follow TaoMaster Personal practice page

An make pairs of opposites (But I think you got in now)

 

AlWAYS PUT THE POSITIVE OF THE PAIR ON THE LEFT!

 

MooNiNite

 

as this

 

FAITH><NO FAITH

 

Just try it.

 

REALITY><ILLUSION

SELF><NO SELF

HAPPY><SAD

BEAUTY><NO BEAUTY

TRUTH><FICTION

HERE><THERE

KNOW><UNKNOW

CALM><AGITATED

UNDERSTANDING><NO UNDERSTANDING

LAUGH><CRY

LOVE><HATE

 

etc...

 

Copy those and then make your own and read them. Digital is fine.

 

Then see the shift in yourself the more you do the more dramatic it will be I promise!

 

Please be aware your mind is in the future your body is in the past (just accept this for now you will know later). This means that you won't feel vibrational changes straight away it will take a little while. Also it depending on how in the past your body is (your health). Dead people have bodies way in the past! Get it?

 

Don't worry I KNOW you will

 

Remember

 

KNOW><UNKNOW

FAITH><NO FAITH

 

and

 

UNDERSTANDING><NO UNDERSTANDING

 

And I can guarantee you will very soon.

 

You will see this truth and feel it too.

 

Trust me

 

TRUST><NO TRUST

 

CONFIDENCE><FEAR

BELIEF><NO BELIEF

SIMPLE><COMPLICATED

 

YOU WILL SEE VERY SOON THE POWER OF THIS JUST TRUST ME FOR NOW AND I WILL EXPLAIN MORE IN DETAIL LATER.

 

FAITH><NO FAITH

 

All My Best,

 

Peter S

Edited January 9, 2015 by Infinity

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Exactly. This is what many people don't understand.

 

Except it is alchemy; distilling the pure from the taint.

 

Removing your own taint so as to preserve your own purity.

 

 

In a redundant sense, it is virtually no different that losing the "self-personality" after death, except that you go through it beforehand.

[Antares]

there is no separation between pre-heaven and post-heaven methods

 

The difference between qigong and Taoist alchemy (the Elixir way

 

If there is no true sperm in the tripod (Fu), that is like to boil empty kettle (Cheng) using water and fire". This is the best apt expression in relation to the exercises of Qigong in the performance of the rotation around the circle of heaven. Without Water flowing and without the True Sperm to realize a small circle of heaven - to use a feeling of qi is like using a fire to burn under an empty pot (Go). Then you can’t escape a burn-out. This circle of heaven of qigong uses the mobilization-release potential (qiannen) of body and produces wastes (xunhao). It's just like to speed up a car with the brakes on. The faster it will go, the more damage there will be, but it will give no benefits. Similar to this, the rotation of the circle of heaven does not do any good. The above shows the difference between a small circle in alchemy and qigong.

The ways of Alchemy and Qigong have very many differences, but the most fundamental difference is that alchemy is the process of reverse perfection, while qigong – is a process of onward perfection. Perfecting the way of alchemy is collection of primordial pre-heaven jing, thereby fulfilling the lost post-heaven jing, restoring the destroyed body, adding oil (tianyu) and prolonging destiny (zeming). The primordial jing is collected for melting and transforming it into qi; using the primordial qi make melting qi and transforming it into shen, then moving farther and melting shen and returning to Emptiness; by melting Emptiness completing Tao. All this leads to the fact that the men who perfect themselves overcome the old age and return to youth, and realizing the reverse perfection become the All-wise. But qigong, by contrast, is unable to collect the primordial jing, and therefore there is no way of reverse perfection; it only possible that a man slightly decreases the loss (continually ongoing), slow decreasing of post-heaven jing, whereby regulating the physiology of their body, achieving the effect of escape from diseases and a small extension of life.

Most importantly, the way of alchemy increases the primordial jing, qi and shen of the human body, as opposed to qigong, which can only follow the law of nature, whereby the human body always follows the order of creation and destruction (death). Any qigong is just an accessory method in the preparatory phase of Taoist alchemy and any kind of qigong can’t go beyond the preparatory stage of the elixir way.

[MooNiNite]

The difference between qigong and Taoist alchemy (the Elixir way

 

If there is no true sperm in the tripod (Fu), that is like to boil empty kettle (Cheng) using water and fire". This is the best apt expression in relation to the exercises of Qigong in the performance of the rotation around the circle of heaven. Without Water flowing and without the True Sperm to realize a small circle of heaven - to use a feeling of qi is like using a fire to burn under an empty pot (Go). Then you can’t escape a burn-out. This circle of heaven of qigong uses the mobilization-release potential (qiannen) of body and produces wastes (xunhao). It's just like to speed up a car with the brakes on. The faster it will go, the more damage there will be, but it will give no benefits. Similar to this, the rotation of the circle of heaven does not do any good. The above shows the difference between a small circle in alchemy and qigong.

The ways of Alchemy and Qigong have very many differences, but the most fundamental difference is that alchemy is the process of reverse perfection, while qigong – is a process of onward perfection. Perfecting the way of alchemy is collection of primordial pre-heaven jing, thereby fulfilling the lost post-heaven jing, restoring the destroyed body, adding oil (tianyu) and prolonging destiny (zeming). The primordial jing is collected for melting and transforming it into qi; using the primordial qi make melting qi and transforming it into shen, then moving farther and melting shen and returning to Emptiness; by melting Emptiness completing Tao. All this leads to the fact that the men who perfect themselves overcome the old age and return to youth, and realizing the reverse perfection become the All-wise. But qigong, by contrast, is unable to collect the primordial jing, and therefore there is no way of reverse perfection; it only possible that a man slightly decreases the loss (continually ongoing), slow decreasing of post-heaven jing, whereby regulating the physiology of their body, achieving the effect of escape from diseases and a small extension of life.

Most importantly, the way of alchemy increases the primordial jing, qi and shen of the human body, as opposed to qigong, which can only follow the law of nature, whereby the human body always follows the order of creation and destruction (death). Any qigong is just an accessory method in the preparatory phase of Taoist alchemy and any kind of qigong can’t go beyond the preparatory stage of the elixir way.

 

thank you, but this means nothing

Edited February 1, 2015 by MooNiNite

[Wells]

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Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[Antares]

Wait a minute...

preheaven shen = Xing

preheaven chi + preheaven jing = Ming

 

If I'm not mistaken you write above that preheaven jing is transformed into preheaven chi and then preheaven chi is transformed into preheaven shen (and after that preheaven shen into emptiness).

This means that Ming is transformed into Xing in the alchemical process and added to the Xing you already have, and not that Ming is fused with Xing to some third and higher power (as "Xing-Ming" or "jingshen" or "spirit-vitality"). So it's all about Xing in the first place!

 

How does that fit with your school's theory about Xing & Ming?

And why not just concentrating on and cultivate your Xing which you already have? Why wasting time with the transformation of Ming into Xing?

 

I did not get your question. You do nit have Xing yet. I do not know it exactly but I suppose that Xing is pre heaven "energy" mingled with one's soul i.e. this is transformed shen and not "postheaven" one that all people have. Also they call Xing some mind cultivation methods but they say about "Xing cultivation". This is such practices as meditations. But if you do not have the fulness of Ming it would be not efficienet. WLP people say that ancient method of Ming is lost almost in all schools and nowadays they teach people how to work with heart nature. This is wrong approach according to Taoist tradition.

http://all-dao.com/xing-problems.html

 

Also you can read here

http://all-dao.com/immortality-achievements.html

 

 

If the time has passed and the energy dissipated, the old age and infirmity had come, it is necessary to return the body to this stage of physiology. Otherwise, it’s impossible to move on.

 

Also I gave the link to the theory disclosed by Liuyiming. Read it once again please.

There were some schools in the past which started from Xing in the beginning. But actually all of them began from Ming and Xing but with different emphasis in the practice. Shortly person can not work with mind if he or she does not have enough innate body energy and if she or he has sicknesses. Ming methods heal deseases and balance body and mind. How are you going to meditate without it? It only will cause deviations.

 

In YuXian school there are initial methods of refining organs according with WuXin theory. It effects pre heaven channels and regulates post heaven but not the other way around. This is the ancient Tao approach and ancient wisdom.

 

But in the beginning there is need to work with Xin. This is diff. qigong sets which are aimed to help to prepare person to the alchemy.

[Wells]

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Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM