Stephen Chang - Deer Exercise issues

[Xunzi]

Hello everyone, I recently picked up a copy of The Complete System of Self-Healing by Stephan Chang.

 

The heart of the book is the Deer, Crane, and Turtle exercises practiced together after mastering each seprately.

 

In the Deer exercise, the book says to suck in the anus as much as possible and to hold for long as possible. This will shoot Chi up the body.

 

The second time I tried the Deer exercise was during a hot shower and after I released, I saw spots in my vision.

 

So my question is: is that a problem?

 

Also, is Stephan Chang a good resource? I was thinking of buying his other books. But his directions on the MCO says to direct the Chi up the spine and leave it in the head as the Chi will come back down naturally. This seems rather dangerous. Is it?

 

Thank you.

[Taomeow]

You didn't specify your gender in your profile. I've been taught that Deer is for women. I don't remember what version is taught in Dr. Chang's book -- maybe something else -- but the female classic I know can't be done in a shower. Or by a male.

[Xunzi]

Ah sorry, I'm a man. The male version can be done standing.

[Taomeow]

Oh, thanks for amending.

 

I didn't know Dr. Chang had Deer for males -- I must have skipped right over that chapter.

 

Generally, his material is very good, authentic and useful. In your case, one thing that I can think of is, don't do it while taking a hot shower. (TCM does not favor hot showers in general.) Deer, like any qigong or neigong practice, requires undivided awareness, full attention to what you are doing, unwavering internal focus without external distractions. Try not to multitask, avoid being busy with something else or stimulated with something else while doing it. Any practice can turn into a source of unexpected or even undesirable "side effects" if you mix it with some random unrelated activity.

 

Good luck!

[Xunzi]

I didn't know Dr. Chang had Deer for males -- I must have skipped right over that chapter.

They're right next to each other

 

Generally, his material is very good, authentic and useful.

Thank you. Are you speaking from personal experience?

 

In your case, one thing that I can think of is, don't do it while taking a hot shower. (TCM does not favor hot showers in general.)

Sorry, I'm still learning the acronyms

 

Deer, like any qigong or neigong practice, requires undivided awareness, full attention to what you are doing, unwavering internal focus without external distractions. Try not to multitask, avoid being busy with something else or stimulated with something else while doing it. Any practice can turn into a source of unexpected or even undesirable "side effects" if you mix it with some random unrelated activity.

 

Good luck!

Thank you, I'll be careful!

[Isimsiz Biri]

My humble advice is not to jump to Mantak Chia books and teachings. Just stay with Stephen Chang.

[cheya]

If you are older and/or if you have high blood pressure, any kind of sustained abdominal compression can cause increased pressure in your head, which could seriously damage your vision (things like retinal detachment) or even cause a stroke. "Spots in your vision" sounds like a contraindication for you, if not for the practice itself, at least for the way you were doing it.

[Taomeow]

They're right next to each other

 

Thank you. Are you speaking from personal experience?

 

Sorry, I'm still learning the acronyms

 

Thank you, I'll be careful!

 

TCM=traditional Chinese medicine

 

Personal experience -- yes. I've read Dr. Chang years ago so I don't remember the details of what does or doesn't come from there, but the things I picked for myself are classics, corroborated by other taoist sources. I didn't get Deer from

Dr. Chang, I got it from taoist female alchemy. Couldn't tell where the male version comes from though -- either his own modification or another classic, one I didn't come across (and didn't look for, for lack of applicability.)

 

It is hard to practice from books. I applaud anyone who gets results this way, but I for one could always start but could never sustain a practice if a live connection wasn't there. This goes not only for books as sources for practice but for live masters too who might be, for whatever reason, unwilling or unable to offer such live connection, or perhaps unwilling/unable to offer it to me personally. Somehow indifference or even implicit negation of who you are on the other end poisons the well, and what they teach becomes irrelevant -- you won't learn without rapport with the teacher. With some, even if you don't meet them, you read a book and feel that the teacher gets you, you feel respectful and respected, you feel awe, and then it might click and you learn something practical from a book that has momentarily come alive. Some, on the other hand, you might actually meet in person and feel a wall of indifference on their part (no matter how well the warm-fuzzy public persona has been rehearsed), or even rejection, or even hostility. I am not capable of learning through such a wall at all. Don't know how everybody else fares in this respect.

[Ish]

Yes pulling in the anus pushes the energy to ascend. Just take care to not do it too forcefully and dont tense other parts of your body.

[Xunzi]

If you are older and/or if you have high blood pressure, any kind of sustained abdominal compression can cause increased pressure in your head, which could seriously damage your vision (things like retinal detachment) or even cause a stroke. "Spots in your vision" sounds like a contraindication for you, if not for the practice itself, at least for the way you were doing it.

 

I'm 24 and my blood pressure is fine. I do have eye problems though.

[bakeneko]

Couldn't tell where the male version comes from though -- either his own modification or another classic, one I didn't come across (and didn't look for, for lack of applicability.)

 

 

I know that part of it is described in another classical manual (forgot the name now though). But there it is about "training the sword" (lol) and has some more stages like binding a silk band around the "sword" and yadda. Similar to the jade egg exercise for women then I guess.

 

I'm 24 and my blood pressure is fine. I do have eye problems though.

 

Same problem here and something I learned early on is that just because one "can" do something, it is not necessarily a good idea. Deer exercise works best in my experience when sitting in a otherwise relaxed state. Hope, this helps.

Edited October 14, 2013 by bakeneko

[Dr_D]

Hello everyone, I recently picked up a copy of The Complete System of Self-Healing by Stephan Chang.

 

The heart of the book is the Deer, Crane, and Turtle exercises practiced together after mastering each seprately.

 

In the Deer exercise, the book says to suck in the anus as much as possible and to hold for long as possible. This will shoot Chi up the body.

 

The second time I tried the Deer exercise was during a hot shower and after I released, I saw spots in my vision.

 

So my question is: is that a problem?

 

Also, is Stephan Chang a good resource? I was thinking of buying his other books. But his directions on the MCO says to direct the Chi up the spine and leave it in the head as the Chi will come back down naturally. This seems rather dangerous. Is it?

 

Thank you.

 

 

I said it many times and I'm not going to get tired of repeating.

The practice of these energetic and spiritual must be supervised by a teacher.

One can not learn from a book alone.

Unfortunately I see many people in my practice who hurt themselves by the lack of knowledge of the practices or bad coaching.

My recommendation to you is to find a qualified practitioner with this special training.

Good luck in your journey.

In light,

[JustBHappy]

Wow Stephan Chang, that brings back memories! That book must be like 30-40 years old.

I've had that book for what seems like ages, but haven't seen it for a long long time. My grandmother gave me that book on her deathbed, right before she died. It was strange how and why she picked me to have that book. She must have somehow known that I would be end up being deeply influenced by qi gong, internal arts and spend a good part of my life living in Asia. I would love see that book now that I have some experience and knowledge on the subject along with a solid daily practice.

Can't make any sort of recommendation for or against since I honestly never practiced it for even a single 108 day period. It makes me smile to see that name though, I had forgotten all about that book.

Give it a go for 108 days or so and see how it works for you. Likely some really good qi gong.

[Mo Tzu]

Hi Xunzi, I know this topic is a little old, but I have just read it and was wondering how your were getting on with the Deer exercise. I have been practicing Dr. Stephen T.Chang's exercises for many years and am a qualified practioner under Dr. Chang. I'd be happy to help with any questions you have, or any one else, on the "Tao of Revitalisation" and its exercises from his book "The Complete System of Self Healing" "Internal Exercises".

www.northstarmeditation.co.uk

Edited August 19, 2014 by Mo Tzu

[Wu Ming Jen]

There are male and female deer exercises very basic and simple. Inhale lift up the perineum floor exhale and release all your muscles.Thats it! The anul lock is held for just a few moments (do not lock for extended periods of time. Do not leave upward energy in the head it also flows back down the descending channel, flowing, no stops and starts, continuous.

 

I never read the book but the directions in the op has two mistakes already. Do not over glorify simple exercise because it is a exercise and simple. The effects of this simple practice has many benefits. If you do not have positive results discontinue immediately and seek out a teacher who will clear up the misinterpretations within a few seconds.

 

MCO happens naturally, being aware of your own body is more important than "knowledge" from outside sources.

[joeblast]

Maybe its just me but I've always found any focus on the anus to be weird and almost misguided and reasons for not focusing on it to be sound. i think half the time you hear it, it is only a "down there" generalization that accepts most people's unfamiliarity with their musculature there. Enough masters have said not to focus too much on it (e.g. Nan Huai Chin.) The musculature of the perineum, buttocks, and prostate are best to use imho. If one cant differentiate, then practice practice and eventually you learn. By streamlining the physical processes, one obtains a better grasp on the energetic functions. The huiyin is the energetic node of the perineum and its energetic characteristics like anything else only reveal themselves after some work. Imho, focusing on the anus detracts from the energetic focus of the huiyin point, detracts from the usage of the prostate, and if you're considering deer exercise, I've always read and been taught to clench the muscles of the buttocks but not the anus itself.