What are the moderators doing?

[Aaron]

I may get into trouble for this, but I have to ask the question, what are the moderators doing? Recently a thread I created was sent to the Pit without any real warning. I have my own opinions as to why this happened and who the culprits are, but I will reserve that opinion until I have an answer from the moderators.

 

I would also like to know what they're doing in general? It seems like certain people persistently derail threads without any action taken towards them. You can't have a debate on this forum without them inserting their own far right agenda. Who is suffering from this? Certainly not those individuals, but rather the rest of us.

 

I really want to know, what are the moderators doing about this? How many more threads and important discussions are going to be sent away because they're deemed derailed?

 

My personal opinion is that a thread should never be sent to the pit, rather those people participating in actions causing the derailment should be suspended. You're punishing everyone for what one or two people decide to do. This is not only unfair, but seriously diminishes our universal civil liberties.

 

I would ask that you repeal your decision to move my most recent thread to the pit and instead punish those individuals responsible for it's derailment. For those who agree, but don't want to comment, please like this post to show your support.

 

Aaron

Edited October 13, 2013 by Aaron

[Unlearner]

All I'll simply say to this is that it just seems like there is so much anger that I've been seeing here lately. I didn't really see much when I first got here (which wasn't very long ago), but it seems like I've been seeing it a lot, even in just what seem to be normal discussions. I understand that some people feel very strongly about certain things, but I suppose I'm just a little surprised at just how quickly people can jump to insults with very little pressure, and most of the time it's not even over disagreements, but rather because someone who commented didn't say exactly what the other person wanted or expected them to say. I mean, I understand that this is the internet after all, but I am just a little disappointed that there would be so much anger on a forum that's supposed to focus on promoting peace and harmony.

Edited October 13, 2013 by Unlearner

[BaguaKicksAss]

I'm not a mod (thank all powers of high lol), but I can answer part of this. Mods don't read all threads, it just wouldn't be possible. So how things go is they hope folks will report stuff if it gets out of hand. If a thread gets multiple reports it will be pitted.

 

On a side note, are you the poster, or was this the thread with anti gay stuff? If so, it should be really obvious why the thread was pitted.

[Apech]

I'm not a mod (thank all powers of high lol), but I can answer part of this. Mods don't read all threads, it just wouldn't be possible. So how things go is they hope folks will report stuff if it gets out of hand. If a thread gets multiple reports it will be pitted.

 

On a side note, are you the poster, or was this the thread with anti gay stuff? If so, it should be really obvious why the thread was pitted.

 

I'm thinking you mean multiple reports of a justified nature ... i.e. breach of the TOS.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Yes, reports which are actually reporting something against the ToS, as opposed to say "so and so didn't agree with me, ban them!!!!! type reports .

[ralis]

I reported the blatant bigotry, derailing and flaming rhetoric that WWROA was posting. Within 30 min. the thread was moved to the pit. No discussion or warning was given by the mods. Protector made comments that made absolutely no sense and I responded by asking him to explain himself. What kind of moderation is that?

 

There are some here that believe in absolute free speech which allows bigotry, hate, racism and so forth. Such speech can certainly lead to violent behavior. Historically, there are many examples where flaming rhetoric leads to violence. BTW, I have seen a moderator check the like button on some of these posts.

 

I can only assume that WWROA is still a member of this forum and will be allowed to continue in the same manner.

 

The following links are Protector's responses.

 

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32073-has-the-west-descended-into-fascism/page-5#entry485517

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32073-has-the-west-descended-into-fascism/page-5#entry485506

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32073-has-the-west-descended-into-fascism/page-6#entry485519

Edited October 13, 2013 by ralis

[Protector]

hmm I guess this one was dealt kinda halfassed

 

Personally, I don't like the banning option in general. Reason or no reason, they will get mad and sometimes try to come back. It's more practical making them leave by themselves. Threaten a little bit, wait for someone to make an angry thread, make a scene, and finally making them feel unwelcome. I think banning should be a shameful thing, the person should feel awful for being banned. In perfect scenario one should ask to be banned.

But that's just me and I'm just stalling until there's a second opinion.

In the past some people here were kinda mad for mods being a little bit ban happy so we're taking things more slowly, but you know, whatever happens no one will be happy. I also get an impression that no one listens to mods anymore. I say stop, no one listens, thread quality goes down as mods have to agree on the solution. And there are so many threads to look through, if only people remembered about the report function.

 

Oh, and the thread being send to the pit thing, wasn't me but I agree with the decision so I didn't touch it.

 

 

bad cop out

[konchog uma]

All I'll simply say to this is that it just seems like there is so much anger that I've been seeing here lately. I didn't really see much when I first got here (which wasn't very long ago), but it seems like I've been seeing it a lot, even in just what seem to be normal discussions. I understand that some people feel very strongly about certain things, but I suppose I'm just a little surprised at just how quickly people can jump to insults with very little pressure, and most of the time it's not even over disagreements, but rather because someone who commented didn't say exactly what the other person wanted or expected them to say. I mean, I understand that this is the internet after all, but I am just a little disappointed that there would be so much anger on a forum that's supposed to focus on promoting peace and harmony.

 

lol when i got here, people immediately mocked me for being Buddhist... that has diminshed, but i have to say that when i arrived at TTB i had a strong interest in daoism, but now its not as strong, while my dharma studies and activities have increased tenfold. To be fair i will say that my present decrease of interest in daoism is largely due to realizing that worthwhile lineage teachers are extraordinarily rare, and without one, i can't really do what i would like to do with it. I don't try to learn advanced yogas and alchemies from books lol. To be honest though, the same lack of interest is largely due to the incredible displays which are regularly seen here on TTB. I hardly post anymore except to sharpen my haiku skills. To be sure, most of the heart-open people here are quiet and don't post often. The empty pail makes the loudest noise.

[dawei]

I sympathize with what the topic relates as hit seems all too common that a few derail and hijack topics for their own gain and exploitation. And I had complained about my own thread which was derailed that by moving it to the pit and not dealing with the posters who are wont to post BS, we are giving more power to those who derail. We are told to open something in the PPA, which is a ridiculous solution.

 

One of the problems with this particular thread being discussed is not the lack of mod attention but dropping the ball on a known problem thread. I am not trying to point fingers but BKA may of missed this point too by trying to defend mods who cannot read every post: A mod had posted twice in the first 20 posts !! So the thread was already being watched. But nothing again till post 73.

 

That is dropping the ball by the mods. If a mod knows a post is headed to pit-ville early on, you have an obligation to alert mods to watch it. This is mod 101.

 

It is interesting that someone posted a follow up thread in their own PPA so they can control the posting. I had a similar thought before seeing that thread.

 

Maybe there needs to be two places a thread can possibly go: (1) Pit (2) A PPA-like area by member, where they can continue the thread under their control.

 

I will say I dislike both as we ignore those causing the derailing.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I'd just say, if you see a problem arising, just put in a report.

 

There's only 5-10 people on the boards who ever use the report function... feel free to join in (but don't overdo it K? )

[dawei]

hmm I guess this one was dealt kinda halfassed

 

Personally, I don't like the banning option in general. Reason or no reason, they will get mad and sometimes try to come back. It's more practical making them leave by themselves. Threaten a little bit, wait for someone to make an angry thread, make a scene, and finally making them feel unwelcome. I think banning should be a shameful thing, the person should feel awful for being banned. In perfect scenario one should ask to be banned.

But that's just me and I'm just stalling until there's a second opinion.

In the past some people here were kinda mad for mods being a little bit ban happy so we're taking things more slowly, but you know, whatever happens no one will be happy. I also get an impression that no one listens to mods anymore. I say stop, no one listens, thread quality goes down as mods have to agree on the solution. And there are so many threads to look through, if only people remembered about the report function.

 

Oh, and the thread being send to the pit thing, wasn't me but I agree with the decision so I didn't touch it.

 

 

bad cop out

 

Sorry to say, this is not bad cop out... this is just a 'cop out' on some level... you need to really listen to what your saying as a mod.

 

You jump to the negatives of 'banning' and then say nobody listens to mods anymore... You don't see how your gloss over the issue by a woe-is-me, what-can-I-do attitude.

 

Here is what you do.. and we're back to Mod 101:

1. You directly quote a member's post you want to warn, and you directly warn them with some ** MOD WARNING ** as the first line of your reply. Nobody listens to your 'stop' because it is done sheepishly and without any force.

2. You then send them a PM. This is critical as some posters may walk away from the thread and really see the post warning. The PM ensures a better chance that they 'get the message to stop'.

3. You alert the mod team of such warning... Now all mods know (if not already) that this member is warned, and if they do the same in another post, that is the same as doing it in the first post.

 

Moderating is not rocket science and it doesn't have to be intrusive or heavy handed in the end, but it needs to be very direct and specific and if it does not produce results, there is a problem with implementing moderation (or the mod).

 

 

I know moderation seems a thankless job and I've done it for years at another place... but there seems to be no real direction on how to moderate here and members clamor to preserve their own threads. That is the bottom line. We get caught up in who did this or that, but the spirit of posting should give priority to the original poster.

 

JMO...

[BaguaKicksAss]

LOL seriously? You do realize it is a volunteer position and that mods have day jobs too right? I'm saying this from experience.

[dawei]

LOL seriously? You do realize it is a volunteer position and that mods have day jobs too right? I'm saying this from experience.

 

You didn't quote anyone... so are you asking me?

 

Posting 101: If you have a serious question for someone, quote them and direct it to them...

 

I think I'm proving my point.

 

And I am serious... if this is directed to me... I've moderated for many, many years... the moderation here is like a slumber party at times...

 

If you don't take moderation serious then you will lose the members trust... and get what we see arising in questions.

[silent thunder]

Exceedingly lame to watch the bullies roam free and slaughter good conversation with intentional ass hattery...

[Protector]

I did all that using the forum's warning system, but the warning was visible only to the member and mod crew, I guess another downside to the warning system at the moment. We're going to the old style since the warning system have been outlawed since this morning.

[dawei]

I did all that using the forum's warning system, but the warning was visible only to the member and mod crew, I guess another downside to the warning system at the moment. We're going to the old style since the warning system have been outlawed since this morning.

 

Can you clarify what "the old style" is?

 

Part of member expectation is they understand what the mods are doing (or will do)... akin to the thread title.

 

So why not explain this instead of just saying an old style is back and forcing people to ask you to just explain more.

[Protector]

Old style as in, not using the warning system

But most people don't even know we've had one so lets forget about it

 

Cruising the forums looking over threads, reading the reports, confronting troublemakers.

Making a thread in the mod forum about the member or bumping an old one, that includes the reports aimed at the member or making a thread in the reports section of the mod forum. Reports are organised by thread so when one thread has many reports, the new thread is made in the reports section while discussions about members are in member logs. Explaining in the new thread the action the mod is going to take, listening to the feedback.

Finally, step #9000 Take action.

[三江源]

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Edited June 25, 2014 by cat

[dawei]

Old style as in, not using the warning system

But most people don't even know we've had one so lets forget about it

 

Warning system or not... I don't see how that negates the idea to directly warn in a thread with a heading and a PM to ensure the member gets the message. That is the real point: Get the warning in the face of the intended poster.

 

Thanks for explaining more.

[ralis]

Have the moderators stopped posting requests to have a member edit their post when there is a clear violation of the forum rules? E.g. ad hominem attacks and so forth.

[三江源]

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Edited June 25, 2014 by cat

[Flolfolil]

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Edited March 6, 2015 by Flolfolil

[三江源]

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Edited June 25, 2014 by cat

[Flolfolil]

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Edited March 6, 2015 by Flolfolil

[JustARandomPanda]

The "dropping the ball" on modding happens for a number of reasons. Many times because there is disagreement among mods as to whether a post has violated ToS at all. There's a big concern of becoming heavy-handed and ending up censoring even if in the beginning the intent is meant well.

 

The style of modding has evolved the way it has because of Sean's default position. He's the kind of guy whom waits for 100% agreement in modding disputes before moving to take action. This is even the case when by rights he could over-rule the deliberation simply because he's the owner of the board. He himself will wait for 100% agreement before acting. He permits a lot of things on this board to stay posted that many members here would rather see pitted or the poster suspended.

 

He once told me personally - when I got into a debate with him - that a lot of calls on the boards to suspend or pit other posts/posters is because 'our hearts are not big enough' (those were his exact words to me) to let people simply be and post and yet we ourselves remain unruffled. This is part of the growth we ourselves need to do at Taobums. Or so his arguments with me all pointed to. For example: he's permitted many threads to stay that others found to be anti-gay and anti-female.

 

 

Until you understand the position of 'growing our hearts' that Sean intends for all board participants the modding at Taobums will always seem erratic and strange and preferential.

Edited October 13, 2013 by JustARandomPanda