How to sleep less? Sleep less than 4 hours with optimal energy?

[Gettodachopper69]

Does anyone have any experience with being able to reduce the amount of sleep to 4 hours or less and still maintain optimal energy for life? There are so many things I want to accomplish in my life and I just don't feel like there is enough time in each day to get everything done. I would love to be able to only sleep a few hours a night and still function optimally.

 

There are so many articles and varying opinions on the subject of sleep and it is heavily debated in the medical field and on the internet. I am not looking to create a debate on the topic of minimum required amounts of hours of sleep.

 

It won't be very helpful if all you have to share is "study says 8 hours is key to good health", "study finds that people who only sleep 4 hours a night live shorter life span."

 

One thing that I have learned about "studies" and "opinions" from the medical and science field is that things change very frequently, so today a study says XYZ and everyone goes crazy over it and then a year later, "new evidence shows XYZ is actually I,J,K."

 

There are plenty of examples from history and current that illustrate this.

 

THE LESSON THAT I HAVE TAKEN AWAY FROM THIS PATTERN IN THE MEDICAL AND SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY IS THIS:

 

WE CREATE OUR OWN REALITY THROUGH OUR BELIEFS!

 

(If you would like to debate the topic of changing scientific/medical field study findings, I will post another topic and we can do that there).

 

All I am looking for is this:

 

1. HAVE YOU REDUCED YOUR SLEEP TO 4 HOURS OR LESS AND STILL HAVE GREAT ENERGY FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME LASTING MORE THAN 1 YEAR? OR, IS THERE SOMEONE THAT IS VERY CLOSE TO YOU THAT HAS BEEN ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH THIS?

 

2. IF ANSWER TO QUESTION 1 IS "YES", HOW DID YOU DO THIS? HOW DID THEY DO THIS?

 

3. ARE THERE ANY TECHNIQUES, SPECIFIC DIET RITUALS, BELIEFS, PATTERNS YOU CAN SHARE?

 

THANK YOU FOR BEING AWESOME!!!

 

 

[Ish]

I haven't got to this stage personally - but i know a few people who have.

 

How to get there? High level of Qigong + meditation.

 

The people i know are all accomplished in these and sleep around 4-5 hours naturally.

 

You want a practice that raises the quantity and quality of your energy. You're going to have to become skilled in meditation.

[dawei]

I would think which 4 hours you sleep may be optimal too. I know that i feel like crap if I sleep after 1pm, regardless of how much sleep I get. And sleeping earlier and waking earlier seems to be the main pattern I see in those who rise early.

[thelerner]

You may be looking for the phenomena of polyphasic sleep. There are a number of writings about it. Here is one experiment: http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/10/polyphasic-sleep/

Here a sample. He also has running history of the experiment after 60 or more days (if you believe him):

 

"Polyphasic sleep involves taking multiple short sleep periods throughout the day instead of getting all your sleep in one long chunk. A popular form of polyphasic sleep, the Uberman sleep schedule, suggests that you sleep 20-30 minutes six times per day, with equally spaced naps every 4 hours around the clock. This means you’re only sleeping 2-3 hours per day. I’d previously heard of polyphasic sleep, but until now I hadn’t come across practical schedules that people seem to be reporting interesting results with.

 

Under this sleep schedule, your sleep times might be at 2am, 6am, 10am, 2pm, 6pm, and 10pm. And each time you’d sleep for only 20-30 minutes. This is nice because the times are the same whether AM or PM, and they’re consistent from day to day as well, so you can still maintain a regular daily schedule, albeit a very different one.

 

How can this sleep schedule work? Supposedly it takes about a week to adjust to it. A normal sleep cycle is 90 minutes, and REM sleep occurs late in this cycle. REM is the most important phase of sleep, the one in which you experience dreams, and when deprived of REM for too long, you suffer serious negative consequences. Polyphasic sleep conditions your body to learn to enter REM sleep immediately when you begin sleeping instead of much later in the sleep cycle. So during the first week you experience sleep deprivation as your body learns to adapt to shorter sleep cycles, but after the adaptation you’ll feel fine, maybe even better than before.

 

It requires some discipline to successfully transition to this cycle, as well as a flexible schedule that allows it. While you’ll be sleeping a lot less, apparently it’s very important to sleep at the required times and not miss naps."

 

 

Personally, I find I don't make the most of the hours I'm up. Until I do, I don't think hacking my sleep less is going to be life changing.

[doc benway]

A stable meditation practice can greatly reduce the sleep requirement.

I've experienced this personally as have others practicing Daost meditation that I train with.

One requirement is, however, that significant time be devoted to the meditative practice.

It's not too difficult to reduce one's sleep requirement to 4 hours in this way.

What is difficult is maintaining the meditative practice...

[SonOfTheGods]

Does anyone have any experience with being able to reduce the amount of sleep to 4 hours or less and still maintain optimal energy for life? There are so many things I want to accomplish in my life and I just don't feel like there is enough time in each day to get everything done. I would love to be able to only sleep a few hours a night and still function optimally.

 

There are so many articles and varying opinions on the subject of sleep and it is heavily debated in the medical field and on the internet. I am not looking to create a debate on the topic of minimum required amounts of hours of sleep.

 

It won't be very helpful if all you have to share is "study says 8 hours is key to good health", "study finds that people who only sleep 4 hours a night live shorter life span."

 

One thing that I have learned about "studies" and "opinions" from the medical and science field is that things change very frequently, so today a study says XYZ and everyone goes crazy over it and then a year later, "new evidence shows XYZ is actually I,J,K."

 

There are plenty of examples from history and current that illustrate this.

 

THE LESSON THAT I HAVE TAKEN AWAY FROM THIS PATTERN IN THE MEDICAL AND SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY IS THIS:

 

WE CREATE OUR OWN REALITY THROUGH OUR BELIEFS!

 

(If you would like to debate the topic of changing scientific/medical field study findings, I will post another topic and we can do that there).

 

All I am looking for is this:

 

1. HAVE YOU REDUCED YOUR SLEEP TO 4 HOURS OR LESS AND STILL HAVE GREAT ENERGY FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME LASTING MORE THAN 1 YEAR? OR, IS THERE SOMEONE THAT IS VERY CLOSE TO YOU THAT HAS BEEN ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH THIS?

 

2. IF ANSWER TO QUESTION 1 IS "YES", HOW DID YOU DO THIS? HOW DID THEY DO THIS?

 

3. ARE THERE ANY TECHNIQUES, SPECIFIC DIET RITUALS, BELIEFS, PATTERNS YOU CAN SHARE?

 

THANK YOU FOR BEING AWESOME!!!

Kundalini, the real stuff, not the imitation stuff:

http://thetaobums.com/topic/30811-pranotthana-or-kundalini/

 

or take a nap, like animals do.

 

or learn shamanic sleep.

Edited October 13, 2013 by SonOfTheGods

[Unlearner]

You may be looking for the phenomena of polyphasic sleep. There are a number of writings about it. Here is one experiment: http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/10/polyphasic-sleep/

Here a sample. He also has running history of the experiment after 60 or more days (if you believe him):

 

"Polyphasic sleep involves taking multiple short sleep periods throughout the day instead of getting all your sleep in one long chunk. A popular form of polyphasic sleep, the Uberman sleep schedule, suggests that you sleep 20-30 minutes six times per day, with equally spaced naps every 4 hours around the clock. This means you’re only sleeping 2-3 hours per day. I’d previously heard of polyphasic sleep, but until now I hadn’t come across practical schedules that people seem to be reporting interesting results with.

 

Under this sleep schedule, your sleep times might be at 2am, 6am, 10am, 2pm, 6pm, and 10pm. And each time you’d sleep for only 20-30 minutes. This is nice because the times are the same whether AM or PM, and they’re consistent from day to day as well, so you can still maintain a regular daily schedule, albeit a very different one.

 

How can this sleep schedule work? Supposedly it takes about a week to adjust to it. A normal sleep cycle is 90 minutes, and REM sleep occurs late in this cycle. REM is the most important phase of sleep, the one in which you experience dreams, and when deprived of REM for too long, you suffer serious negative consequences. Polyphasic sleep conditions your body to learn to enter REM sleep immediately when you begin sleeping instead of much later in the sleep cycle. So during the first week you experience sleep deprivation as your body learns to adapt to shorter sleep cycles, but after the adaptation you’ll feel fine, maybe even better than before.

 

It requires some discipline to successfully transition to this cycle, as well as a flexible schedule that allows it. While you’ll be sleeping a lot less, apparently it’s very important to sleep at the required times and not miss naps."

 

 

Personally, I find I don't make the most of the hours I'm up. Until I do, I don't think hacking my sleep less is going to be life changing.

 

No personal experience, but I do remember reading about this back in college. I tried looking into it more to follow up, but I've only heard mixed reports, so I never saw a solid conclusion. Some people said it worked for a while, but I've also heard that the Uberman sleep schedule, while it can work for a while, eventually started making people go crazy. In any case, whether it works or not, I've heard universally that the first week or so really sucks. Again, no personal experience with this, I'm not that dedicated to losing sleep

[silent thunder]

You may be looking for the phenomena of polyphasic sleep. There are a number of writings about it. Here is one experiment: http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/10/polyphasic-sleep/

Here a sample. He also has running history of the experiment after 60 or more days (if you believe him):

 

"Polyphasic sleep involves taking multiple short sleep periods throughout the day instead of getting all your sleep in one long chunk. A popular form of polyphasic sleep, the Uberman sleep schedule, suggests that you sleep 20-30 minutes six times per day, with equally spaced naps every 4 hours around the clock. This means you’re only sleeping 2-3 hours per day. I’d previously heard of polyphasic sleep, but until now I hadn’t come across practical schedules that people seem to be reporting interesting results with.

 

Under this sleep schedule, your sleep times might be at 2am, 6am, 10am, 2pm, 6pm, and 10pm. And each time you’d sleep for only 20-30 minutes. This is nice because the times are the same whether AM or PM, and they’re consistent from day to day as well, so you can still maintain a regular daily schedule, albeit a very different one.

 

How can this sleep schedule work? Supposedly it takes about a week to adjust to it. A normal sleep cycle is 90 minutes, and REM sleep occurs late in this cycle. REM is the most important phase of sleep, the one in which you experience dreams, and when deprived of REM for too long, you suffer serious negative consequences. Polyphasic sleep conditions your body to learn to enter REM sleep immediately when you begin sleeping instead of much later in the sleep cycle. So during the first week you experience sleep deprivation as your body learns to adapt to shorter sleep cycles, but after the adaptation you’ll feel fine, maybe even better than before.

 

It requires some discipline to successfully transition to this cycle, as well as a flexible schedule that allows it. While you’ll be sleeping a lot less, apparently it’s very important to sleep at the required times and not miss naps."

 

 

Personally, I find I don't make the most of the hours I'm up. Until I do, I don't think hacking my sleep less is going to be life changing.

I developed a polyphasic sleep pattern instinctively when I was first married, living off campus, taking 24 credits/quarter at University and performing with the Minnesota Shakespeare Co. I maintained that pattern for a little under two years, with 3 month breaks each Summer. It was amazingly effective (effectiveness was probably compounded by the fact that I was in exceedingly good health and was 20-22 at the time).

 

edit: It was probably also effective as it was really my only option. Necessity is a great source of vitality and stamina.

Edited October 13, 2013 by silent thunder

[Gettodachopper69]

This is great guys, thank you!! How many hours a day would you say would be the minimum to be able to reduce sleep to this low of a level? More than 2 hours a day of daily meditation?

 

I have researched the polyphasic sleep method and I think it would be a little difficult to pull off since I work a 9 To 5 job so there would be about a 10 hour span in the day where I couldn't take the needed naps. Would love to try it some day once I break out of the corporate world.

 

I was able to find some other information on the topic but not from any credible sources necessarily, but still point in the right direction.

 

This guy claims he sleeps only 4 hours a night and has been doing so for over 30 years.

 

Then I found a post in some forum (Here):

 

See what some of the people has to say about sacrificing their sleep..

Diddy (Famous for sleeping less than 4 hours a day)

“I'm not trying to make a hit record; I'm making one. This is what I studied. This is why I stay up twenty hours a day.

“Sleep is forbidden. When I’m working, I’m a machine and I don’t look at other people like they are human.

“I'm working when you're sleeping!! When you think you've done enough for the day, KEEP GOING!!

Silvio Berlusconi (Famous for sleeping 2-4 hours a day)

"I am constantly working and I don't sleep more than two hours a night.

"Work, work, work - I am almost German.

Jerry Weintraub (Famous for sleeping 4-5 hours a day)

Jerry Weintraub on sacrificing sleep:

“I made a choice for career and for success. When you make that choice, you give up something - you have to give up something. I worked 24 hours a day and still do, seven days a week. I don't know about Saturday or Sunday, I don't know about holidays and vacations.

Donald Trump (Known for sleeping 3-5 hours a day)

"I sleep very little, 3 or 4 hours a night. And that's what I need. And I have friends that need 12 hours' sleep. I say, 12 hours? What are you going to do? So how does somebody that's sleeping 12 and 14 hours a day compete with somebody that's sleeping 3 or 4 ? It doesn't work that way.

Dana White (2-5 hours sleeper)

"I literally require no sleep. I can go to sleep for two hours, three hours, and I get up and can kill it.

"It's not that I don't get a lot of sleep, it's that I don't require a lot of sleep.

"My life is so good, I don't want to waste any minute of it sleeping. I hate sleeping.

Darryn Lyons (3-5 hour sleeper)

"Working like a dog during the week wore me out, so I would try and catch up on sleep at weekends.?I didn’t want to let a minute go past without trying to make money. To this day, I won’t go near washing and ironing. It’s such a bad use of time.

"In this job, a typical working day is one that never ends. I’m usually awake by around 5 or 6 a.m, and most of the time I don’t get to bed till 2 or 3 a.m.

"If I have to work around the clock to make something happen, then I’ll do it. People don’t want to work the hours I work, and nobody works as hard as I do. They simply can’t do it – but work is the reason we went fro ‘little’ pictures to f***ing BIG pictures."

Damon Dash (4-6 hour sleeper)

"I think you have to give yourself goals and until you achieve them you have to work all day everyday till you get them.

"I work hard, so I surround myself with people that work just as hard. It's important if you want to create a successful brand. Also, the concept of being "tired" doesn’t really apply to me. In fact, I don’t even consider "tired" tired. If you want to succeed and be successful, you can’t let it bother you.

"I see a lot of wasted talent, I seen a lot of people that have a lot of skills insight but because they are so smart they cut corners and because of that you see it in their work and a result of their work. Then I see people that are not that brilliant but because they work so hard they are relentless they don’t get it initially but they eventually will because they are way ahead of that smarter person. I think it’s about being resilient and working hard if some closes the door I open it because the doors will always be closed

"You have to walk it like you talk it. My greatest example is myself and if I can continue to work so can they, you know what I mean? Unless you got more money than me, I don't see how anybody could be relaxing. And even if they have more money they shouldn't be relaxing with it. If you don't have what I have, and I am still putting in the work, I don't see how someone else still is (relaxing).

Martha Stewart (2- 4 hour sleeper)

It's an exhausting lifestyle, and I always say sleep can go. It's not important to me right now.

Aristotle Onassis (Used to sleep 4 Hours day)

Aristotle on sacrificing sleep:

“Don't sleep too much. If you sleep 3 hours less each night for a year, you will have an extra month and a half to succeed in.

“Don't worry about your physical shortcomings. I am no Greek god. Don't get too much sleep and don 't tell anybody your troubles.

 

I am at about 6.5 hours a day right now. I am a little bit tired throughout the day but I also eat a lot of sugar and other unhealthy food so a big part of this goal for me is to start eating more healthily knowing that the rewards will be astounding.

 

My goal is to go to bed at midnight every night and then wake up at 4am and do qigong and yoga before I start the day.

 

I'm going start eating healthy (visiting a naturopathic doctor on Tuesday) and taking off about 30 minutes of sleep per week over the next month and a half and see how it goes.

 

Maybe I can keep you guys posted on how I do with this and please if any of you are trying this please let me know how it goes for your! It seems like it could be a very life changing endeavor if one is able to accomplish it.

 

I just have so many things I want to do in this world and I want to accomplish/experience as much as I can. There is so much life to live when you get excited about the world we live in.

 

Here are some of the dreams I am interested in accomplishing in my lifetime to give a little insight into why I want to sleep so little and to possibly motivate someone who is also interested in any of these dreams as well:

 

- Be an accomplished Musician: Guitar/Singer/Piano Player

- Read over 100 books per year

- Become financially free via becoming a successful stock trader and entrepreneur starting positive impact businesses

- Be a philanthropist

- Be an accomplished mixed medium artist (Drawing, painting)

- Learn surfing

- Avid writer

- Keep in great physical shape (life weights)

- Accomplished Qigong/Yoga Practitioner

- Be an accomplished documentary film maker

- Travel

- Be a positive influence on the people I come on contact with

- Become a scratch golfer

- Do all of the above with as much spirituality as possible

 

Would also love to hear any of your dreams if you are interested in this sort of thing!

 

 

Thanks for your responses it is greatly appreciated!!

[Friend]

Ever heard from a thing called workaholic?

[Gettodachopper69]

Ever heard from a thing called workaholic?

 

Yes thats why the meditation/yoga/spirituality will be so imperative to keep it all balanced and flush out some things if necessary.

[Friend]

Yes thats why the meditation/yoga/spirituality will be so imperative to keep it all balanced and flush out some things if necessary.

The more attachment one has the more one like to do.

Keep in mind one has to find out what is important,

since there is so much in the word that can catch our interest

making us believe we need it brings profit.

 

It is not to reduce sleep but the desires we have.

[Gettodachopper69]

The more attachment one has the more one like to do.

Keep in mind one has to find out what is important,

since there is so much in the word that can catch our interest

making us believe we need it brings profit.

 

It is not to reduce sleep but the desires we have.

 

Yeah I agree with what you are saying but I have trouble seeing this and understanding how to balance the Buddhist perspective with the fact that I have to get up every morning and go to work. I mean if I reduce all my desires does the fact that I have to pay bills go away? I realize the nature of life and reality may actually say that this is all just an illusion but I am not past a highly advanced spiritual stage where this is comprehendible, so its like how to I balance not wanting to sit in a cubicle working on a computer my whole career with the letting go of my desires? Ya know?

[Brian]

Michael Lomax's spiral qigong is an excellent restorative technique. He teaches it at workshops. Next one is in Hilton Head in November.

 

The more I practice Ya Mu's stillness-movement, the more time I find available for practicing.

Edited October 13, 2013 by Brian

[silent thunder]

Hi silent thunder. Might you be interested in sharing that routine with us here? I definitely am curious to hear more.

Sure.

 

This was my typical day from the ages of 20-22.

 

I'd arrive at school around 7 am, coming from my night shift at the restaurant, which let out at 6.

 

When I had a later first class, I would sleep up to 2 hours at a time, then hit class. but more often my sleep came in 30 to 90 minute gaps in the breaks between classes. 24 credits was my average per quarter so I was at school all day M-F.

 

I grabbed catnaps whenever/wherever I could. Being involved in the theater dept. performing and constructing props, I had access to awesome nap locales on campus, either on an empty stage or in the prop warehouse or green room on a sofa. Also had access at school to the showers in the dressing rooms, which really made this work. Having to go home to bathe would have been a deal killer.

 

Classes would run until 5 pm and then there was usually another 2-3 hour break before rehearsals for the show would start, so I'd grab food and crash into another nap. I carried a wind up clock with me, but I found by the end, the act of setting that alarm would set an intention within and my innate hatred of the sound of that alarm prompted me to start waking up within the minute or two ahead. This has continued the rest of my life to the point where I have not awakened to my alarm in years.

 

After rehearsals which would be out by 10pm, I'd head home, hang out with my wife and my cats for a bit, then crash and get up to go to the restaurant again.

 

On the odd off-days, I would binge sleep.

 

Interesting to note the affect of crowds on my vitality while in my performing phase. Vast amounts of energy were spent performing, but this is where I first developed an understanding of myself not as a bucket full of energy that could be empty or full, but rather I was a conduit through which energy flows, which could open and constrict. As much energy as I was pouring out on stage was replaced by the attention of the crowd and the interaction with the other performers. Rarely was I drained after a show, with the exception of the really emotional roles. (the emotional toll is what drove me out of acting... the body/spirit doesn't know you're faking emotions and the toll is unreal)

 

So the overall, the pattern was about 2 hours sleep in the morning and evening roughly 12 hours apart, with one or two shorter naps during the day when I didn't need to study.

 

In Summer I didn't study shit and played my ass off with my wife and friends.

 

edit: Some of the side effects of this phase in my life were a spike in lucid dreaming, bouts of sleep paralysis and hypnagogic visions. These culminated several years after school with full blown visions, encounters with the hat man and several orb spirits.

Edited October 13, 2013 by silent thunder

[Friend]

Yeah I agree with what you are saying but I have trouble seeing this and understanding how to balance the Buddhist perspective with the fact that I have to get up every morning and go to work. I mean if I reduce all my desires does the fact that I have to pay bills go away? I realize the nature of life and reality may actually say that this is all just an illusion but I am not past a highly advanced spiritual stage where this is comprehendible, so its like how to I balance not wanting to sit in a cubicle working on a computer my whole career with the letting go of my desires? Ya know?

This is the trap of Society.

Technology improved and still the human has to work.

The society in these days are built so one has to buy

and earn money.

 

My parents told they had no things to play with than

rocks and a ball, unlike today with its console games,

facebook, chat society, forums and the many games.

 

Money was used only for the necessary things

food,household stuff marriage and for the graves.

 

Most of the things one make believe that one need

by giving the possible advantage one can gain.

You just need to see the TV Shop advertisment

showing the example that gain "tremondous" health

and body shape in "short" time with "less effort"

"for only."

 

To sell something people created a desire for a chance

to change. They are unsatiesfied with their life

and envy other when the other have it one do not.

(Showing a enourmous one pack belly than

a six pack belly, using of contrast).

 

 

Other people also do have to pay bills,

they cut their hobby time away and

being very concetrated to keep it short

without zapping around in the tv.

 

A cousin from me who is a girl

has two jobs, goes studying and bought

already a home in the US where she

have my auntie and uncle, her parents

live their. She likes to dress beautiful

with a sense of luxurity but she keep

this with the sense of being money saving.

 

When I was taking visit, she would only

stay around 2-3 hours awake.

She does everything other does,

gaming, tv, chatting, e-mail,

telephone with friends, but also

household, cleaning and paperwork

and having a dog, a bit fitness Tae Bo^^

cleary discerning also friends and playmates.

 

 

But the thing she does is efficient and short

and she not waste much time on unnecessary

talk. From all the family clan members she work

the most and sleep the most.

 

Different than other people she could keep in check

the reward response by disciplin and reasoning and following

the this.

The reward one ask for is the harder the work was,

the unsatiesfaction is increase the more unsatiesfied the work,

payment and the day was.

One want a compensation for all these "desaster".

An when now in this state of want compensation

an advertisemnt comes then one is very vulnerable to buy that.

 

It is not only the bills.

Acutally those who pay you money for your service have

to give you more than only to stay alive else they do have broken

the codex for buisness.

A car is luxurity, to be able to live outside the city.

Else one can live near and get the bus, walk, or use a bicyle.

 

Another thing is than one has need the abillity to money safe

and wait and the discipline to safe without thinking that there

is a oppurtunity now. If you can not safe ask yourself it

what you want is really so important.

 

I know of someone who goes to Wang Liping yearly, has a baby child

and is married, goes study,may work beside and exercise

4 hours full lotus. This I call discipline and seeing the importance.

 

The next thing to ask the change of the job for a job which better fits ones taste

and money range. To have it all as fast as possible isnt helpful.

 

So to reduce the stress is very needed to

lower the reward respone to it.

One has to use ones own head to deal

with stress. This why one goes mediate

to lower the stress. People with much stress

can not be compassionate.

 

Also easy things become complicate with stress.

If life is like treatend even 12+35 can not be done correctly.

In fact one not try to grasp the

highest advanced spirtual stage

but to take the next step.

 

If you full of stress one can not reach the state with less sleep.

Stress is reducing the health.

This is compensate with sleep.

So one need to adjust live and ask one

-what one do

-how one do it

- if it can be done more easily

 

Then after you do that you can do one method like

simple meditation a form of something

for 15minutes if you are not seeking becoming

an immortal, a Mahasiddha or ascended master.

 

Each day you can watch then how much you natural need

sleep and then reflect on your behaviour, on what you eat,

what you done.

Especially watch out for day you had need less sleep

and then analyse the day before and the time period.

 

I do not earn much money but with what I can

I do spare for all the seminars,book, food

without thinking how much I have, I think about

what I buy.

 

With the Qigong I learned and the correction

and simplyfying in my life I have day I sleep 3-4 hours

and compensate it for one day with

14 hours at one day at weekend.

 

My background was the inabilltiy to gain rest from sleep

when I had chronic fatique, daily 14 hours +.

Now I work daily up to 6 days a week with 9,5hours,

sleep some hours, rest play, train and research.

If it is about money, the only thing I worry about money

is the complain of others about it. like :

"I bought this Gucci Bag for $800 now I have no money"

WTF

[Gettodachopper69]

Yes I like what you are saying, and I do not care about having money to buy materialistic "show-off" items but I do want my freedom to be myself and express myself without being a corporate slave. I feel like it requires a lot of effort to break out of the 9-5 job game and create the reality that you want and I would very much like to try to accomplish this. I have mixed views on stress as well. I am not sure whether or not stress is actually bad for health. Here is something to watch and consider. Again, stress, like sleep, is a heavily debated topic.

 

Kelly McGonigal's Ted Talk on Stress

[Friend]

Yes I like what you are saying, and I do not care about having money to buy materialistic "show-off" items but I do want my freedom to be myself and express myself without being a corporate slave. I feel like it requires a lot of effort to break out of the 9-5 job game and create the reality that you want and I would very much like to try to accomplish this. I have mixed views on stress as well. I am not sure whether or not stress is actually bad for health. Here is something to watch and consider. Again, stress, like sleep, is a heavily debated topic.

 

Kelly McGonigal's Ted Talk on Stress

You have to think that the word "cooperate slave"

is extremly dangerous use for polarisation

to use.

 

As this would put you in a state of a victim.

See this as the basis to work for one of the dreams

you hold for example to put you back in the one

who deceide.

 

Look for example we have Sifu Garry Hearfield

for the Bak Fu Sunn Yee Gong in this forum, he is working

as Ambulance in Australia.

Still he is pursueing the Kungfu he learned.

Does he look like a victim?

 

This is to as well cultivation and serving the society.

To break out one has to fight, to really persistance

and discipline.

 

Dont forget you can always leave the cooperation,

even if it gives you disadvantages.

You keep it because it still keep advantage to keep the bill

being payed.

Actually do you think other work make you less dependent?

Even spiritual workers have to worry.

 

For example there is a teacher who teach yoga,

he was doing job and get some extra from yoga.

The person who was student from her told me

that it was different when she was having a normal

job. Now it seems all the teaching session are "to much buisness"

and much unease about the unfixed amount of money she get.

 

As a worker one can endure the time and get the fixed amount of money.

 

Actually you can ask member Skydog here what he thinks

how to get freedom to be hisself and express it.

 

Remember different things give different advantage and disadvantes.

One will see the advantage from something when it is absent.

This would be but a very bitter lesson.

Remember that everthing you have is what generation before of you wished to have.

It is only bad because one mostly only compare ones situation with maybe better situation.

[Taomeow]

I agree with Friend that reducing sleep without reducing stress is unhealthy, and reducing stress is not always an option, whether external or internal. The bulk of stress we carry is internal, developmental -- e.g. being born prematurely is a lifelong stressor, not having been nursed is a lifelong stressor, childhood vaccinations are a lifelong stressor, and on and on -- in most modern people, the whole system is wired for stress management and mediation of pain, unmet needs, and repressed feelings from the start, and there's little room left for anything else. These systems are doing the best they can with the hand they've been dealt, and sleep of individually determined duration is a profound necessity for them to be able to cope.

 

Sleep is absolutely crucial as the first line defense against all neurological, psychological, physical imbalances brought on by developmental stress and aggravated by ongoing current stressors. I wouldn't set a goal of reducing it even by a minute. We typically get less of it than we really need rather than more, considering what it's up against. Normalizing any function and system by some good method or other (cultivation) may reduce one's need for sleep -- or not, instead it may increase one's ability to use both sleeping and waking states productively.

 

Dreamtime is the source of systemic nourishment, healing, balance, and power. Instead of reducing the quantity, I would go for increasing the quality of one's sleep.

[thelerner]

Side note. There's a good (Itunes) podcast called Evening Inventory Meditation (11 minutes) from 'Meditation Station'. Its a nice mental dump of the day. Instead of forgetting, you remember, then let it go. It can work nicely.

[Gettodachopper69]

I agree with Friend that reducing sleep without reducing stress is unhealthy, and reducing stress is not always an option, whether external or internal. The bulk of stress we carry is internal, developmental -- e.g. being born prematurely is a lifelong stressor, not having been nursed is a lifelong stressor, childhood vaccinations are a lifelong stressor, and on and on -- in most modern people, the whole system is wired for stress management and mediation of pain, unmet needs, and repressed feelings from the start, and there's little room left for anything else. These systems are doing the best they can with the hand they've been dealt, and sleep of individually determined duration is a profound necessity for them to be able to cope.

 

Sleep is absolutely crucial as the first line defense against all neurological, psychological, physical imbalances brought on by developmental stress and aggravated by ongoing current stressors. I wouldn't set a goal of reducing it even by a minute. We typically get less of it than we really need rather than more, considering what it's up against. Normalizing any function and system by some good method or other (cultivation) may reduce one's need for sleep -- or not, instead it may increase one's ability to use both sleeping and waking states productively.

 

Dreamtime is the source of systemic nourishment, healing, balance, and power. Instead of reducing the quantity, I would go for increasing the quality of one's sleep.

Thank you for that response! The whole stress thing seems unclear to me though. I for a while believed that it was bad for me but now I'm questioning if it is actually bad or if its just the fact that I believe its bad. My experience thus far says that our beliefs control our reality in many ways.

 

Would love to get your opinion on this video:

 

Kelly McGonigal's Ted Talk on Stress

[Taomeow]

Thank you for that response! The whole stress thing seems unclear to me though. I for a while believed that it was bad for me but now I'm questioning if it is actually bad or if its just the fact that I believe its bad. My experience thus far says that our beliefs control our reality in many ways.

 

Would love to get your opinion on this video:

 

Kelly McGonigal's Ted Talk on Stress

 

Thanks for the link!

 

What I think of it is, statistics only say "what" happened but people interpret "why" it happened in accordance with their level of understanding. Psychologists don't know, so they make it up. In this case, the made-up theory is that beliefs of the mind create the reality of the body.

 

I hold a diametrically opposite position. To wit, that the reality of the body creates beliefs, or rather, steers people toward beliefs of particular nature, which they proceed to adopt because of a resonance between their actual systemic reality and this particular set of ideas. No one adopts beliefs that the body does not resonate with. So beliefs are a symptom of what's going on systemically, not the source.

 

So, my take on the "why" of those statistics goes like this. People who believed they were harmed by stress and proceeded to die were people who were indeed harmed by stress and knew it. People who believed they weren't harmed by stress and proceeded to live were people who, indeed, weren't harmed by stress, and knew it. Two different kinds of people -- I call them the "too much" group and the "not enough" group.

 

The "too much" people carry a lot of developmental stress, have defense mechanisms stretched to their limits and eventually to the breaking point, and handle any additional stress poorly on all levels. They know that stress harms them because they can feel it. It's not their "belief," it's their reality -- the "belief" derived from this reality is congruent with reality itself and accurate.

 

The "not enough" people, on the other hand, carry a lot of developmental under-stimulation (e.g. cold, emotionally barren upbringings, strict scheduling with no room for spontaneity, social isolation and loneliness growing up, and so on). These suffer from an opposite kind of danger to their health, that of stagnation, not enough "spark," excitement, action, not enough stimuli to feel alive. These are the ones who thrive on stress. These are the ONLY beneficiaries of stress -- they happen to have been abnormalized in a way that modern lifestyles have made adaptive. Current society provides their drug of self-medication, stress, in ample supply. They are like alcoholics who always feel better when they can get a fix. The "too much" group is, currently, far less lucky. They are being, effectively, force-fed their lethal poison. Same substance -- stress -- different metabolisms. That's the picture.

 

Does it make sense to you?

[soaring crane]

Regardless of the system or techniques used, I think the best possible situation would be to have the lowered sleep-requirement be the result of practice, instead of intentionally seeking it as a kind of conquest. This approach is likely to yield short-term effects but fail you over time whereas the lower-sleep requirement resulting from steady meditation is a completely normal phenomenon.

 

Under four hours of sleep is extreme, the last thing you want to do is apply willpower to get there. You'll just burn out, guaranteed. Judging from my own circle of friends and acquaintances, and my own experience when I'm in top-form, it seems like there's something about the 5-6 hour range that appears naturally among people who pursue these lifestyles, so to speak.

 

But regardless of my own bias, and the great information already noted here, you mentioned improving your diet and I want to add that, yeah, better nutrition overall is probably going to be requisite to your plans, but even more important than the nutritional value of your food is going to be the digestibility of what you eat. You should aim to eat as little as you can get by with, and only meals that you don't notice at all afterwards, so to speak. Quiet digestion is always important.

 

Also, pay close attention to keeping the liver happy and quiet.

[Urpflanze]

There is no real benefit in shortchanging your body's natural mechanism to heal itself daily, to sort the messy details of the day into meaningful memories, and to tag them to the corrrect branch of your learning tree. And the most crucial of all - staging a theater of smoke and mirrors for you and you alone, where occasionally the purple-gown lady descends to blow a sprinkle of magic-dust in your pupils.

Edited October 24, 2013 by Urpflanze

[Gettodachopper69]

Thanks for the link!

 

What I think of it is, statistics only say "what" happened but people interpret "why" it happened in accordance with their level of understanding. Psychologists don't know, so they make it up. In this case, the made-up theory is that beliefs of the mind create the reality of the body.

 

I hold a diametrically opposite position. To wit, that the reality of the body creates beliefs, or rather, steers people toward beliefs of particular nature, which they proceed to adopt because of a resonance between their actual systemic reality and this particular set of ideas. No one adopts beliefs that the body does not resonate with. So beliefs are a symptom of what's going on systemically, not the source.

 

So, my take on the "why" of those statistics goes like this. People who believed they were harmed by stress and proceeded to die were people who were indeed harmed by stress and knew it. People who believed they weren't harmed by stress and proceeded to live were people who, indeed, weren't harmed by stress, and knew it. Two different kinds of people -- I call them the "too much" group and the "not enough" group.

 

The "too much" people carry a lot of developmental stress, have defense mechanisms stretched to their limits and eventually to the breaking point, and handle any additional stress poorly on all levels. They know that stress harms them because they can feel it. It's not their "belief," it's their reality -- the "belief" derived from this reality is congruent with reality itself and accurate.

 

The "not enough" people, on the other hand, carry a lot of developmental under-stimulation (e.g. cold, emotionally barren upbringings, strict scheduling with no room for spontaneity, social isolation and loneliness growing up, and so on). These suffer from an opposite kind of danger to their health, that of stagnation, not enough "spark," excitement, action, not enough stimuli to feel alive. These are the ones who thrive on stress. These are the ONLY beneficiaries of stress -- they happen to have been abnormalized in a way that modern lifestyles have made adaptive. Current society provides their drug of self-medication, stress, in ample supply. They are like alcoholics who always feel better when they can get a fix. The "too much" group is, currently, far less lucky. They are being, effectively, force-fed their lethal poison. Same substance -- stress -- different metabolisms. That's the picture.

 

Does it make sense to you?

Yes this makes sense and I really appreciate your response but I am still on the fence on what I believe about all of this due to the fact that we are constantly being shown "breakthroughs" in the medical and science fields. That on top of what I have learned spiritually about the power of the mind shows that beliefs hold a lot of power, at least for me personally.