How to sleep less? Sleep less than 4 hours with optimal energy?

[Gettodachopper69]

Regardless of the system or techniques used, I think the best possible situation would be to have the lowered sleep-requirement be the result of practice, instead of intentionally seeking it as a kind of conquest. This approach is likely to yield short-term effects but fail you over time whereas the lower-sleep requirement resulting from steady meditation is a completely normal phenomenon.

 

Under four hours of sleep is extreme, the last thing you want to do is apply willpower to get there. You'll just burn out, guaranteed. Judging from my own circle of friends and acquaintances, and my own experience when I'm in top-form, it seems like there's something about the 5-6 hour range that appears naturally among people who pursue these lifestyles, so to speak.

 

But regardless of my own bias, and the great information already noted here, you mentioned improving your diet and I want to add that, yeah, better nutrition overall is probably going to be requisite to your plans, but even more important than the nutritional value of your food is going to be the digestibility of what you eat. You should aim to eat as little as you can get by with, and only meals that you don't notice at all afterwards, so to speak. Quiet digestion is always important.

 

Also, pay close attention to keeping the liver happy and quiet.

This really hit home for me, you are right about the burning out trying to do this by sheer willpower alone. I need to have this goal be the RESULT of my practice, diet, beliefs, habits, patterns, etc. Thank you for this wonderful post!!

[Owledge]

There are so many things I want to accomplish in my life and I just don't feel like there is enough time in each day to get everything done. I would love to be able to only sleep a few hours a night and still function optimally.

The unpopular things that keep people so busy these days are getting worse. If you manage to live with less sleep, those things might occupy the time gained, too, whereas if you don't manage to do that, the actual life-changing breakdown might occur sooner.

Because your need for sleep is not the actual problem.

 

 

Here are some of the dreams I am interested in accomplishing in my lifetime to give a little insight into why I want to sleep so little and to possibly motivate someone who is also interested in any of these dreams as well:

 

- Be an accomplished Musician: Guitar/Singer/Piano Player

- Read over 100 books per year

- Become financially free via becoming a successful stock trader and entrepreneur starting positive impact businesses

- Be a philanthropist

- Be an accomplished mixed medium artist (Drawing, painting)

- Learn surfing

- Avid writer

- Keep in great physical shape (life weights)

- Accomplished Qigong/Yoga Practitioner

- Be an accomplished documentary film maker

- Travel

- Be a positive influence on the people I come on contact with

- Become a scratch golfer

- Do all of the above with as much spirituality as possible

 

"Become financially free via becoming a successful stock trader and entrepreneur starting positive impact businesses"

That's like stealing from the poor so that you can sell it back to the poor. Also kinda naive combined with

"Be a philanthropist"

It's not a career path, you know? Either you qualify as being one or not. And it's a vague term. And often misused or outright not true.

Same with

"Be a positive influence on the people I come on contact with"

This is not a goal you aim to accomplish. It's a lifestyle. And not one you need money or stuff for, at least not necessarily.

"Do all of the above with as much spirituality as possible"

What do you even mean by that?!

 

Also, might I recommend more focus? I'm beginning to see why you feel you don't have enough time in the day, if all these things are what you are directing energy at. The list almost reads like a joke. So many things some people manage to do as THE main career, pretty much full time, and you want to not only do those things, but excel in them?

Your problem is definitely not a lack of 4 hours a day. You just want to be Tony Stark.

 

Furthermore, planning/intending to become successful at something is not as good as finding passion for something. Because in the former case, you might have to make sacrifices that cause you to not be able to look at yourself in the mirror. That kind of approach is supported by certain paths in society, and not healty ones.

 

P.S.: I have actually managed to reduce my need for sleep to 4 hours a day by doing roughly 4 hours of a very deep meditation daily.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Owledge

[Mal]

Modafinil seems to be the current wonder drug that many are using

 

http://www.theage.com.au/news/general/a-real-eye-opener/2006/05/04/1146335866910.html?page=fullpage

http://boldanddetermined.com/2012/07/12/become-mighty-modafinil/

 

I haven't tried it, I was once really keen to try some sort of polyphasic sleep as I use to need ~9hrs sleep but like most TTB's I find meditation reduces my sleep requirements, with a good 30 min session of meditation seeming to reduce sleep by a 90 min sleep cycle.

[Owledge]

Modafinil seems to be the current wonder drug that many are using

 

http://www.theage.com.au/news/general/a-real-eye-opener/2006/05/04/1146335866910.html?page=fullpage

http://boldanddetermined.com/2012/07/12/become-mighty-modafinil/

 

I haven't tried it, I was once really keen to try some sort of polyphasic sleep as I use to need ~9hrs sleep but like most TTB's I find meditation reduces my sleep requirements, with a good 30 min session of meditation seeming to reduce sleep by a 90 min sleep cycle.

Those drugs cause dependency on a social level. If enough people take them, employers will expect you to take them or they replace you with someone who will.

More and more people are unemployed, but the remaining have to work more and more. And if they get replaced by machines, society doesn't reap the benefits from it.

Those substances should be avoided like the plague due to their social destructiveness. Not to mention that FDA approval doesn't mean people won't eventually figure out that it kills you.

 

Personally I found out that one of the best wakefulness-inducers is passion for what you're doing. Adversely, hating what you're doing can artificially tire and exhaust you.

Edited November 1, 2013 by Owledge

[cheya]

New research on why we sleep might get you to revise your sleep goals...

This is BIG! And actually sounds a little bizarre!

 

Sleep Is Critical for Brain Detoxification, By Dr. Joesph Mercola

 

"Researchers at the University of Rochester Medical Center (URMC) Center for Translational Neuromedicine believe they may have discovered yet another clue as to why sleep is mandatory for good healthespecially brain health.

 

Their report, published in the journal Science reveals that your brain has a unique method of removing toxic waste through whats been dubbed the glymphatic system.

 

The clincher is that this system ramps up its activity during sleep, thereby allowing your brain to clear out toxins, including harmful proteins linked to brain disorders such as Alzheimers for example.

 

Whats more, they discovered that your brain cells actually shrink by about 60 percent during sleep, which allows for more efficient waste removal. According to lead author Maiken Nedergaard, M.D., D.M.Sc., featured in the video above:

 

This study shows that the brain has different functional states when asleep and when awake. In fact, the restorative nature of sleep appears to be the result of the active clearance of the by-products of neural activity that accumulate during wakefulness. "

 

Read more here:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/10/31/sleep-brain-detoxification.aspx?e_cid=20131031Z1_DNL_art_1&utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20131031Z1

[Gettodachopper69]

The unpopular things that keep people so busy these days are getting worse. If you manage to live with less sleep, those things might occupy the time gained, too, whereas if you don't manage to do that, the actual life-changing breakdown might occur sooner.

Because your need for sleep is not the actual problem.

 

 

 

"Become financially free via becoming a successful stock trader and entrepreneur starting positive impact businesses"

That's like stealing from the poor so that you can sell it back to the poor. Also kinda naive combined with

"Be a philanthropist"

It's not a career path, you know? Either you qualify as being one or not. And it's a vague term. And often misused or outright not true.

Same with

"Be a positive influence on the people I come on contact with"

This is not a goal you aim to accomplish. It's a lifestyle. And not one you need money or stuff for, at least not necessarily.

"Do all of the above with as much spirituality as possible"

What do you even mean by that?!

 

Also, might I recommend more focus? I'm beginning to see why you feel you don't have enough time in the day, if all these things are what you are directing energy at. The list almost reads like a joke. So many things some people manage to do as THE main career, pretty much full time, and you want to not only do those things, but excel in them?

Your problem is definitely not a lack of 4 hours a day. You just want to be Tony Stark.

 

Furthermore, planning/intending to become successful at something is not as good as finding passion for something. Because in the former case, you might have to make sacrifices that cause you to not be able to look at yourself in the mirror. That kind of approach is supported by certain paths in society, and not healty ones.

 

P.S.: I have actually managed to reduce my need for sleep to 4 hours a day by doing roughly 4 hours of a very deep meditation daily.

I'm not quite sure what to make of this. It feels judgmental and deconstructive.

[Taomeow]

As someone who has run into "rare" and "less common" (per FDA) "side effects" of FDA-approved drugs every single time, I always go to the "side effects" section of any meds descriptions before even looking at their "effects." Typically it's one look followed by a verdict: no fucking way.

 

(However, nootropics, a whole class of drugs approved in Europe and pretty much globally decades ago but not approved by the FDA because these, oops, actually make people smarter -- and, yes, without any side effects exceeding in severity those of a cup of strong tea -- these do decrease one's need of sleep, usually by about an hour. And that's, well, their "side effect," they are not primarily for this, they just do it on the side by improving the brain's utilization of oxygen and hemispheric communication. I've only had experience with an older generation nootropic, piracetam, way back when -- and I've known people, infants to 90-year-olds, who had been given this for years and fared exceptionally well. But this one is the only exception I know to the general rule that all medical drugs are monstrosities of "side effects" and many are mediocre or feckless in their intended effects as well. That's because piracetam (and, possibly, pramiracetam, a later more potent version developed from it, but this I don't know for a fact) is so close to some natural substances in the human brain that it is accepted without having to break in and demolish stuff there -- unlike pretty much all other synthetic substances with CNS activity.)

 

So here goes for Modafinil (sorry it posted in straight lines -- was supposed to be a table with two columns, disorder brought about by its use on the left, severity on the right):

 

 

The following side effects are associated with modafinil oral:

 

Common side effects of modafinil oral:

 

Inflammation of the Nose Less Severe Indigestion Less Severe Backache Less Severe Dizzy Less Severe Chronic Trouble Sleeping Less Severe Head Pain Less Severe Feel Like Throwing Up Less Severe Diarrhea Less Severe Nervous Less Severe Anxious Less Severe

 

Infrequent side effects of modafinil oral:

 

Depression Severe Lazy Eye Severe Problems with Eyesight Severe High Blood Pressure Severe Abnormal Heart Rhythm Severe Abnormally Low Blood Pressure Severe Throat Irritation Severe Loss of Memory Severe Fever Severe Chills Severe Voluntary Movement Difficulty Severe Fast Heartbeat Severe Chest Pain Severe Cannot Empty Bladder Severe High Blood Sugar Severe Confused Severe Mood Changes Severe Widening of Blood Vessels Less Severe Dry Mouth Less Severe Incomplete or Infrequent Bowel Movements Less Severe Abnormal Increase in Muscle Tone Less Severe Flu-Like Symptoms Less Severe Involuntary Quivering Less Severe Loss of Appetite Less Severe Excessive Thirst Less Severe Heart Throbbing or Pounding Less Severe Throwing Up Less Severe Numbness and Tingling Less Severe

 

Rare side effects of modafinil oral:

 

Hyperactive Behavior Severe Inflammation of the Middle Tissue Heart Muscle Severe Asthma Severe Painful, Red or Swollen Mouth Severe Hepatitis Severe Bloody Urine Severe Toxic Epidermal Necrolysis Severe Stevens-Johnson Syndrome Severe Abnormal Peeling of Skin Severe Hives Severe Small Skin Blister Severe Rash Severe Visible Water Retention Severe Trouble Breathing Severe Abnormal Liver Function Tests Severe Life Threatening Allergic Reaction Severe Giant Hives Severe Decreased Blood Platelets Severe Deficiency of Granulocytes a Type of White Blood Cell Severe Decreased White Blood Cells Severe Increased Eosinophils in the Blood Severe Behaving with Excessive Cheerfulness and Activity Severe Mental Disturbance Severe Having Thoughts of Suicide Severe Feeling Restless Less Severe Aggressive Behavior Less Severe Itching Less Severe Excessive Sweating Less Severe Taste Problems Less Severe Gas Less Severe Feeling Weak Less Severe

 

Edited November 2, 2013 by Taomeow

[soaring crane]

New research on why we sleep might get you to revise your sleep goals...

This is BIG! And actually sounds a little bizarre!

 

There was an hour-long radio discussion on this topic here last week. Very interesting indeed. But I don't think it's relevant to people who simply sleep less because they live better and meditate more when they're awake. I'm certain that if you wake up feeling fresh and raring to go, and have energy all day long, then your brain did all the detox that was necessary in the time alloted to it. Maybe it even does some of this work during meditation? I wonder ... that might be an explanation for the reduced sleep requirement?)

 

The findings are really a warning for a society where people are forcing themselves to get through a stressful life, and depriving themselves of sleep. And by extension, against experimenting with techniques with the explicit goal of reducing sleeping time.

Edited November 2, 2013 by soaring crane

[Owledge]

New research on why we sleep might get you to revise your sleep goals...

This is BIG! And actually sounds a little bizarre!

 

...

Then again... the body can be amazingly adaptive. (admittedly, a lot more during childhood)

It's not impossible to condition the body to do this detox at least partially on-the-fly.

[Owledge]

I'm not quite sure what to make of this. It feels judgmental and deconstructive.

This doesn't sound like the sheer mindblowing level of determination and confidence that will be required to achieve what you're aiming at, if it doesn't have a habit of falling into your lap.

[Urpflanze]

Here are some of the dreams I am interested in accomplishing in my lifetime to give a little insight into why I want to sleep so little and to possibly motivate someone who is also interested in any of these dreams as well:

 

 

- Be an accomplished Musician: Guitar/Singer/Piano Player

- Read over 100 books per year

- Become financially free via becoming a successful stock trader and entrepreneur starting positive impact businesses

- Be a philanthropist

- Be an accomplished mixed medium artist (Drawing, painting)

- Learn surfing

- Avid writer

- Keep in great physical shape (life weights)

- Accomplished Qigong/Yoga Practitioner

- Be an accomplished documentary film maker

- Travel

- Be a positive influence on the people I come on contact with

- Become a scratch golfer

- Do all of the above with as much spirituality as possible

 

Would also love to hear any of your dreams if you are interested in this sort of thing!

 

 

Thanks for your responses it is greatly appreciated!!

 

You can't plan all the things at the start. This is not how it works. Life is that which happens in between the plans. You start from A with a set of agenda, but when you reach B you are not the same person anymore. The things that may have appealed to you earlier may not appeal to you 'now'. You change. Your perspective changes. Your consciousess expands. I will go as far as to claim that you don't have a clue as to what your real calling is. And that is perfectly normal. These checklists are a trick by which you encounter the real 'you'. Without them, you will never start. But if you cling to them stubbornly, you will never encounter. So, pick up one goal and see where it takes you.

[Gettodachopper69]

You can't plan all the things at the start. This is not how it works. Life is that which happens in between the plans. You start from A with a set of agenda, but when you reach B you are not the same person anymore. The things that may have appealed to you earlier may not appeal to you 'now'. You change. Your perspective changes. Your consciousess expands. I will go as far as to claim that you don't have a clue as to what your real calling is. And that is perfectly normal. These checklists are a trick by which you encounter the real 'you'. Without them, you will never start. But if you cling to them stubbornly, you will never encounter. So, pick up one goal and see where it takes you.

 

I simply want to experience as much life as I possibly can.

 

When I am doing the above things I mentioned in my post I am very happy. I wish I had time to do all of them. I am most unhappy when I can't do the things that I love to do, like work a desk job in a cubicle for 9 hours a day. I am determined to create a better life for myself and to do that I have to think differently than the masses. Most people "settle" for the 9-5 job and that is why successful people are rare.

 

Successful people make it a habit to do the things that unsuccessful people don't like to do.

 

The size of your success is determined by the size of your beliefs.

 

I understand what you are saying that "life just happens" and we don't have a choice, I get that. I get it that in the end everything I listed is just attachment to materialism, I get that. But that is why the qigong, meditation, yoga etc. will be so important to my journey. It will keep me grounded. For when I am most centered will I realize my true power and true potential. The true power and potential that makes me unstoppable.

 

So you have the idea and concept that everything is nothingness and all we see is only of the material world and yada yada yada but none of that stops you from making your water, car and house payment now does it?

 

You don't stop working because everything in the end is just nothingness do you?

 

I get it that some people are on such a high spiritual plane of enlightenment that they do actually have no payments of any kind and survive of the land and live very happy and are very free. But that is not my reality. That is not the reality that I want for myself.

 

So although I understand that I start at point A and can't know for sure if I'll get to point B, I still have power to set the sail in a particular direction and I do that through my beliefs, choices and actions etc.

 

The way you and Owledge speak it sounds like in some ways you have "settled" in to "only limited set number of possibilites" and thats just not the way I choose to live my life. Enough things have happened in my life to know that the power of thought is very real and your thoughts control your reality. At least for me it is real. My thoughts control my reality.

 

I simply want to get the most out of life. As much as I possibly can. And sometimes that means taking a step back and forgetting about all my desires, but many times it means taking actions that will make me feel good and take me towards doing things I love and having many types of experiences.

 

All I said in most of those goals was to be "accomplished", meaning, my own definition of "accomplished." I'm not talking about being famous.

 

Yes, I do want to be Tony Stark in a sense. But more importantly, I want to unleash MY OWN potential and do things that I love doing.

 

I am obviously not going to get my points through to you guys so we can politely agree to disagree and no worries. I wish good things for all of you!

 

Thank you for taking the time to write!