Jesus a fictional character?

[Shagrath]

Jesus represents a person who is natural and who reached the state of I am (eheieh) or I am that I am (Eheieh asher eheieh). In the flesh he is the same as all of us, hence the name Jesus Christ that we connect to his looks and deeds doesn't mean a thing. His "inside" world, his realization is what truly matters and what we all should strive for. To be ourselfs like he was himself. Not to copy him, not to follow him in his footsteps because then we are becoming him and that is not being authentic. Whenever he says that he is the mystical gate, that you must reach him, you must except him as a leader he doesn't mean him as a Jesus Christ, he alludes to him as a son of God, as we all are.

 

The Bible describes the state of the man on his path toward consiousness, in the psychodramic method of that time, and describes the general way of the people. Also, allegories, associations, metaphors, personifications, symbolism of that time must be understood for bible to truly make sense.

 

All of this only matters if that is what a man recognizes that he is drawn to, as someone is be pulled towards being singer, or football player, pilot, or a pianist.

 

What one holy man from Mount Athos said: "Better genuine baker, then fake mystic."

 

So if we break it down again:

 

jesus is:

 

god/saviour

 

archetype/catalyst

 

all explained = Tiphareth

 

Shagrath, on 15 Oct 2013 - 17:21, said:

 

what jesus represents:

 

Matthew

Those who bear bad fruit will be cut down and burned "with unquenchable fire." 3:10, 12

Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17

Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery. 5:29-30

Jesus says that most people will go to hell. 7:13-14

Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 7:19

"The children of the kingdom [the Jews] shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 8:12

Jesus tells a man who had just lost his father: "Let the dead bury the dead." 8:21

Jesus sends some devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the waters below. 8:32

Cities that neither "receive" the disciples nor "hear" their words will be destroyed by God. It will be worse for them than for Sodom and Gomorrah. And you know what God supposedly did to those poor folks (see Gen 19:24). 10:14-15

Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few "prophecies" in the Bible that has actually come true). "Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." 10:21

Jesus says that we should fear God who is willing and "able to destroy both soul and body in hell." 10:28

Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword." 10:34-36

Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn't care for his preaching. 11:20-24

Jesus will send his angels to gather up "all that offend" and they "shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." 13:41-42, 50

Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (See Ex 21:15, Lev 20:9, Dt 21:18-21) So, does Jesus think that children who curse their parents should be killed? It sure sounds like it. 15:4-7

"Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up." 15:13

Jesus advises his followers to mutilate themselves by cutting off their hands and plucking out their eyes. He says it's better to be "maimed" than to suffer "everlasting fire." 18:8-9

In the parable of the unforgiving servant, the king threatens to enslave a man and his entire family to pay for a debt. This practice, which was common at the time, seems not to have bothered Jesus very much. The parable ends with this: "So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you." If you are cruel to others, God will be cruel to you. 18:23-35

"And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors." 18:34

God is like a rich man who owns a vineyard and rents it to poor farmers. When he sends servants to collect the rent, the tenants beat or kill them. So he sent his son to collect the rent, and they kill him too. Then the owner comes and kills the farmers and rents the vineyard to others. 21:33-41

"Whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder." Whoever falls on "this stone" (Jesus) will be broken, and whomever the stone falls on will be ground into powder. 21:44

In the parable of the marriage feast, the king sends his servants to gather everyone they can find, both bad and good, to come to the wedding feast. One guest didn't have on his wedding garment, so the king tied him up and "cast him into the outer darkness" where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 22:1-14

The end of the world will be signaled by wars, famines, disease, and earthquakes (6-7). And that's just "the beginning of sorrows" (8). Next believers will be hated and killed by unbelievers (9), believers will hate and betray each other (10), false prophets will fool people (11), iniquity will abound and love wax cold (12). But hey, if you make through all that, you'll be saved (13).

Only one more thing will happen before the end comes: the gospel will be preached throughout the world (14). Well, that and the abomination of desolations will stand in the holy place (15), many false Christs and false prophets will show great signs and wonders (24), the sun and moon will be darkened and the stars will fall (29), the sign of the son of Man will appear in the sky, everyone on earth will mourn, and then, finally, the great and powerful son of Man will come in all his glory (30).

Oh, and all these things will happen within the lifespan of Jesus' contemporaries (34).

Or maybe not. Jesus was talking about things he knew nothing about (36). (See Mark 13:32.) 24:3-51

Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It'll be just like that when he returns. 24:37

God will come when people least expect him and then he'll "cut them asunder." And "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 24:50-51

The parable of the cruel and unjust master
The kingdom of heaven is like a rich man who distributed his wealth to his servants while he traveled. He gave five talents (a talent was a unit of money, worth about 20 years of a worker's wages) to one servant, two to another, and one to a third. When he returned, the servant with five talents had made five more, the servant with two made two more, but the servant with one talent only had the talent his master entrusted to him. The master rewarded the servants that invested his money (without his permission -- what would have happened if the stock market went down during their master's travels?) and took the talent from the single-talent servant and gave it to the one with ten talents. "For unto every one that hath shall be given .. but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath." Then the cruel and unjust master cast the servant who carefully protected his master's talent into the "outer darkness: [where] there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 25:14-30

The servant who kept and returned his master's talent was cast into the "outer darkness" where there will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth." 25:30

Jesus judges the nations. 25:31-46

Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an "everlasting fire." 25:41

Jesus says the damned will be tormented forever. 25:46

Mark

Jesus explains why he speaks in parables: to confuse people so they will go to hell. 4:11-12

Jesus sends devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off a cliff and be drowned in the sea. When the people hear about it, they beg Jesus to leave. 5:12-13

Any city that doesn't "receive" the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. 6:11

Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as required by Old Testament law. (See Ex 21:15, Lev 20:9, Dt 21:18-21) 7:9-10

Jesus tells us to cut off our hands and feet, and pluck out our eyes to avoid going to hell. 9:43-49

God is like a rich man who owns a vineyard and rents it to poor farmers. When he sends servants to collect the rent, the tenants beat or kill them. So he sent his son to collect the rent, and they kill him too. Then the owner comes and kills the farmers and gives the vineyard to others. 12:1-9

Jesus tells his disciples to eat his body and drink his blood. 14:22-24

Jesus says that those that believe and are baptized will be saved, while those who don't will be damned. 16:16

Luke

Zechariah asks the angel Gabriel how his wife Elizabeth could become pregnant, since she is "stricken with years." Gabriel makes him "dumb" just for asking. 1:20

Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 3:9

John the Baptist says that Christ will burn the damned "with fire unquenchable." 3:17

Jesus heals a naked man who was possessed by many devils by sending the devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the sea. This messy, cruel, and expensive (for the owners of the pigs) treatment did not favorably impress the local residents, and Jesus was asked to leave. 8:27-37

Jesus says that entire cities will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants "thrust down to hell" for not "receiving" his disciples. 10:10-15

Jesus says that we should fear God since he has the power to kill us and then torture us forever in hell. 12:5

Jesus says that God is like a slave-owner who beats his slaves "with many stripes." 12:46-47

"Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." 13:3, 5

According to Jesus, only a few will be saved; the vast majority will suffer eternally in hell where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 13:23-30

In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man goes to hell, because as Abraham explains, he had a good life on earth and so now he will be tormented. Whereas Lazarus, who was miserable on earth, is now in heaven. This seems fair to Jesus. 16:19-31

Jesus believed the story of Noah's ark. He thought it really happened and had no problem with the idea of God drowning everything and everybody. 17:26-27

Jesus also believes the story about Sodom's destruction. He says, "even thus shall it be in the day the son of man is revealed ... Remember Lot's wife." This tells us about Jesus' knowledge of science and history, and his sense of justice. 17:29-32

In the parable of the talents, Jesus says that God takes what is not rightly his, and reaps what he didn't sow. The parable ends with the words: "bring them [those who preferred not to be ruled by him] hither, and slay them before me." 19:22-27

Jesus tells his disciples to eat his body and drink his blood. 22:19-20

John

Jesus believed the stupid and vicious story from Numbers 21. (God sent snakes to bite the people for complaining about the lack of food and water. Then God told Moses to make a brass snake to cure them from the bites.) 3:14

"God so loved the world, that he gave his His only begotten Son."
As an example to parents everywhere and to save the world (from himself), God had his own son tortured and killed. 3:16

People are damned or saved depending only on what they believe. 3:18, 36

The "wrath of God" is on all unbelievers. 3:36

Jesus believes people are crippled by God as a punishment for sin. He tells a crippled man, after healing him, to "sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee." 5:14

Those who do not believe in Jesus will be cast into a fire to be burned. 15:6

Jesus says we must eat his flesh and drink his blood if we want to have eternal life. This idea was just too gross for "many of his disciples" and "walked no more with him." 6:53-66

 

OK SO WHO WANTS THIS GUY AS THEIR TAI CHI MASTER? (FOR ALL ETERNITY)

[Jonas]

Mantak Chia is a Chirstian and considered Jesus an Taoist. Trough Taoism and Alchemy I have come to a new understanding of Christianity, even if I have much to learn still. There is an ongoing debate wether Jesus existed or not.. To that I feel that the truth is in between: he didnt exists in the image chuch gives to him, but the character behind definitely existed! He was a wandering mystic that tought people Gnosis and he won reputation as a healer and teacher in concurrence with (the more intellectual) Appolonius of Tyana, Simon the Magus and some more influential teachers that gathered people around that times. His father Joseph belonged to the Essene-community (an early ecological community actually) and he taught his son a lot as well.

Too much mysticism, solemnity and sacramental rituals has evolved around Jesus.. He was a practical and charismatic person, that recommended a simple, "sinfree", daoist, spiritual, ecological lifestyle with daily Sadhama as opposed to big houses and comfortable lifestyle (the same as the Daoist masters).

Its also suggested that there was many similarities between the Pythagorean group and the Essenes.

I have an interest in how the Essenes lived.. To understand more of the ecological brotherhood that was the Essene's I suggest:

http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Essene-Way-Biogenic-Living/dp/0895640198

another good read: http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/jae/jae03.htm

Edited October 18, 2013 by Jonas

[Isimsiz Biri]

A painting of Jesus Christ by Akiane Kramarik. I really love this painting of him. If you click the picture, it gets bigger.

 

Edited October 26, 2013 by Isimsiz Biri

[silent thunder]

If Jesus was...

He was brown.

[Isimsiz Biri]

If Jesus was...

He was brown.

 

Brown?

[Spotless]

If your saying Jesus isn't real then anyone who was associated with him wasn't real either. To disprove one you must disprove the others.

You may wish to enroll in Philosophy 101 - in this case only a student teacher would be needed to convey just how absurd your statement is.

[Jadespear]

Who cares if Jesus was real or not? The most startling fact and stupidity of Christianity is not the existence of a man, but the vicarious atonement that the belief system system built around him entails. So dumb.

[9th]

[Maan]

There are recordings from physical seances (montcabirol.com and from david thompson) where the spirit communicators confirm that jesus really existed and that he was not the son of god but just a very spiritually developped person who had the powers of foresight and healing the sick. Now he resides in the highest level of the spirit world where the buddha also went to after his death.

[SonOfTheGods]

All of us are fictional, if no one remembers us, after we pass from this current existance

[Seeker of Wisdom]

There are recordings from physical seances...

And seances are reliable sources of information?

 

In order to believe seance information, you have to assume that the medium is really contacting a spirit, that the spirit knows the topic accurately, that the spirit is truthful, and that the communication is not being warped at all by the preconceptions lodged in the mediums' subconscious.

 

I'm not saying no accurate information can ever come from a seance, but if you don't automatically believe everything humans say then you shouldn't automatically believe in all seance information.

 

If someone told you stuff on the street, you'd hopefully not instantly believe every word from their mouth as though they are infallible sources of knowledge.

 

Doubt scripture, doubt seances, doubt channelling, doubt the news, doubt everything you are told, doubt everything you have ever been told - test it with reason and experience.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Seeker of Tao

[RongzomFan]

There are recordings from physical seances (montcabirol.com and from david thompson) where the spirit communicators confirm that jesus really existed and that he was not the son of god but just a very spiritually developped person who had the powers of foresight and healing the sick. Now he resides in the highest level of the spirit world where the buddha also went to after his death.

 

Joe Fisher came to the conclusion that such spirits are hungry ghosts i.e. trickster spirits.

 

Read the last chapters of Siren Call of Hungry Ghosts.

Edited October 27, 2013 by RongzomFan

[Brian]

Who cares if Jesus was real or not? The most startling fact and stupidity of Christianity is not the existence of a man, but the vicarious atonement that the belief system system built around him entails. So dumb.

Jadespear, this type of post is not only off-topic but is intended to offend. Please refrain from this type of comment in the future.

[Brian]

9th, the same^^^ applies to your "Christianity is stupid, communism is good" video...

[Jetsun]

Lots of people seem to meet Jesus when they drink Ayahuasca for some reason. The psychologist Gabor Mate is one of those but the interesting thing about his experience is that he is Jewish.

[三江源]

.

Edited June 22, 2014 by cat

[9th]

9th, the same^^^ applies to your "Christianity is stupid, communism is good" video...

 

Sorry but you are wrong. You have not correctly divined my intent in posting that video.

 

Furthermore the ability to be offended rests solely in the observer, however difficult it may be to accept.

[Brian]

Fair enough. Not sure how a video entitled "Christianity is Stupid" relates to the question of whether the historical character known as Jesus really existed, and really sure how the lyrics & imagery could be construed in a constructive manner but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt!

 

Perhaps a commentary on another post rather than directly related to the OP?

 

[三江源]

.

Edited June 22, 2014 by cat

[Brian]

Upon reflection, I recognized it could have been a response rather than a piling-on.

[Apech]

The shame is that many think that Christianity is stupid because of how the church has represented it to us. Part of this is a Jesus who can easily be thought of as fictional as he seems so divorced from what we experience in the real world. So the wrapping him up in a kind of other worldly perfection and using him as a stick to beat us with is a problem.

 

Its not only Jesus they do this kind of thing with ... take Shakespeare for instance ... a great mystical poet and incredibly insightful seer into the human condition becomes a boring member of the establishment ... and also whose very existence as a single person is now hotly disputed.

 

I think we need to repatriate Jesus into the world of cultivation in a way which helps us all.

[9th]

Fair enough. Not sure how a video entitled "Christianity is Stupid" relates to the question of whether the historical character known as Jesus really existed, and really sure how the lyrics & imagery could be construed in a constructive manner but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt! Perhaps a commentary on another post rather than directly related to the OP?

 

 

Regardless of whatever intent someone may have (even those who are sincerely trying to offend you) it may be beneficial to keep an open mind and embrace life as it presents itself anyways. As long as you are alive, you can always learn something. And those who cannot appreciate themselves will never appreciate honesty, and that includes the honesty of malicious intent acting out in a malicious way. Blind spots go hand in hand with non-acceptance of reality. They start within and unfold into the world around you. People only see evils and terrors in the world because they choose to ignore the evils and terrors in themselves. Once you understand the origins, you will understand the results, and you will understand that the real judgement of men does not belong to mankind. The politics of self-imagery define their own parameters of conflict. Its an insidious shell game that starts by choice - a trick people play on themselves then blame on someone else. At heart, its an abdication of the responsibility of being alive. Once you discover the purpose for this, you will discover the implications, and you will discover the meaning of life itself.

 

[Brian]

I think perhaps you misunderstood me as I originally misunderstood you, 9th.

 

I merely sought to prevent healthily contentious thread from sinking into another antichrist debacle.

 

I wasn't personally offended, though.

[Isimsiz Biri]

There are recordings from physical seances (montcabirol.com and from david thompson) where the spirit communicators confirm that jesus really existed and that he was not the son of god but just a very spiritually developped person who had the powers of foresight and healing the sick. Now he resides in the highest level of the spirit world where the buddha also went to after his death.

 

This information is parallel to Holy Quran. Jesus Christ was a Prophet of God Almighty. He came from the bloodline of Abraham-Isaac-Jacob-Jospeh-Moses-David-Solomon. As his ancestors, he was also a Prophet. Buddha was also a prophet.

 

Having noted this point, the general warning for all mediumship is valid. Negative bodiless beings always try to introduce themselves as positive beings and try to obsess the medium.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsession_(Spiritism)

[Isimsiz Biri]

Except, who destroyed all the genuine tantric lineages?

 

It was Islam.

 

I have an academic reference if you like.

 

So if dubious Swamis are a problem, Abrahamic religions are to blame.

 

 

It was not Islam. It was Muslims.

 

Today, in Arakan region of Myanmar, Buddhists are killing Muslim minority. There is one Buddhist Monk, Ashin Wirathu provoking Buddhists to kill Muslim women, children, elderly.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashin_Wirathu

 

Looking at Astin Wirathu's evil deeds, could you tell that all Buddhists are blood thirsty murderers?