Mind

[Wynn]

What is mind?

What is still mind?

Are there seven billion unique minds, or one mind with seven billion different perspectives?

 

 

although, perhaps it could be said, that asking mind to describe itself is an absurd proposition.

 

 

 

 

Pointing to a flag waving in a monastery, the monk says, “What is moving, the flag or the wind?” The answer is neither; the mind is moving.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Wynn

[silent thunder]

One gem has many facets.

 

What are the qualities of those facets without light flowing through them?

 

Facets/perspectives filter the One Light which I am taught to 'understand'.

 

When I release mind, there is no understanding, there is no self.

 

Clarity and Light remain.

Edited October 14, 2013 by silent thunder

[Wynn]

One gem has many facets.

 

What are the qualities of those facets without light flowing through them?

 

Facets/perspectives filter the One Light which I am taught to 'understand'.

 

When I release mind, there is no understanding, there is no self.

 

Clarity and Light remain.

nice ...

 

not sure about "taught" though, which seems to imply an addition of knowledge

perhaps it is more like of an undoing, a falling away, of ignorance

[doc benway]

Are there seven billion unique minds, or one mind with seven billion different perspectives?

 

In considering this question, I find it instructive to also include the possible answers - both and neither

 

perhaps it is more like of an undoing, a falling away, of ignorance

 

For me, here seems to have been an active dismantling

[fluidity]

7 billion threads in 1 process within 1 mind

It makes the whole Self-NoSelf debacle quite a confusion until you realise that yes, you exist alone, yes, other people exist, yes other people are you, yes, they are themselves too, and even with all that... no-self

[silent thunder]

nice ...

 

not sure about "taught" though, which seems to imply an addition of knowledge

perhaps it is more like of an undoing, a falling away, of ignorance

yes, thank you... that word was hanging for me as well.

or awakening...

 

edit: na upon thinking about it, I was trying to convey taught... the filters and perspectives are taught in an effort to help you 'understand' from the perspective of your culture or your family.

 

It is this that is released when mind is released and light flows.

Edited October 15, 2013 by silent thunder

[RiverSnake]

The Qabbalistic glyph/tree I think is illuminating in showing how existence emerges from Mind as well as the nature of Mind. It's both a glyph for magical/cultivation purposes as well as a kind of existential cosmology all in one picture. At-least that is my understanding.....others may disagree.

 

http://www.crystalinks.com/tolsnake.gif

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited October 15, 2013 by OldChi

[Nungali]

What is mind?

. Mind is an English word that, like many other English words, struggles to be defined by the English language without adopting words from other languages that have a plethora of terms to describe stages and processes of internal centred and generated (or perhaps external) cognitive processes, spiritual states, mental states and hierarchies that English tries to sum up in one term. In this case the word seems to originate (like most ‘mainstream’ religions, and Indo-European cultures) in the old Avestan language and culture as ‘men’; ment , mental … mentor, etc. … to men again, re-men, remember. Often traced to more of a meaning related to memory or the use of memory in the cognitive process.

What is still mind?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are there seven billion unique minds, or one mind with seven billion different perspectives?

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Yes and no. It’s a loaded question, two parts - two separate questions in one sentence requiring the same answer for both. Especially since the question is asked before mind has been defined.

I think the question is best rephrased by replacing ’mind’ with ‘consciousness’ and removing the ‘or’.

We all are conscious. Consciousness has many ‘levels’ that we can access. We all have a level that is ‘located’ in us that we all relate to as our own, so yes to the first part of the question. We also have a level that is ‘non-local’ hence ‘everywhere at the same time,’ i.e. one … or ‘singularity’, so yes to the second part of the question.

although, perhaps it could be said, that asking mind to describe itself is an absurd proposition.

And therefore bound to get an absurd answer

 

 

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

What follows is a rambling description of my understanding of ‘Mind’, and I am giving fair warning that it is difficult to follow. My hope is that I might inspire exploration of the Mind through shared understandings. Somewhere in this mess of words I have tried to explain a process that has brilliantly revealed itself to ‘me’ in a way that removed all conflicts and all unresolved questions in my relationships with Life. If there is fault in the message, it is in my skill at presenting it, not in the process being presented.

 

First, I understand that most of what I refer to as ‘what I know’, is what I ‘believe’, it’s what I hold as ‘true’ unless or until more conclusive information reveals those beliefs to be inaccurate or inadequate, this I refer to as ‘understanding’. I understand that this mind-body organism experiences information from sensory input, and I do not limit sensory input to the five physical senses, I hold insight, intuition, and energetic awareness as equal in the process of experiencing information, and by interactive communion, as ‘that’ which the information references. Among my conclusions, what stands out as undeniable, notwithstanding deep ideological inclinations to contradict it, is this: That Mind is the naturally existent and inherent medium upon and through which all of the experience of existence is made known.. further, that any form of communication requires the natural functions of Mind to complete the conveyance of words, ideas, concepts, and experiences from one being to another, or.. between multiple beings and the cooperative expansion of their collective Mind, even if the collective reference relates to even two or three beings cooperating in a way that achieves more than could be achieved individually.

 

The word, ‘mind’, is sometimes demonized for its less desirable qualities, and praised for its more desirable qualities, and there is a tendency among ‘Spiritual’ groups to discount ‘Mind’s necessary role in the fundamental process of existing and ‘Being’. What I have come to believe (see previous paragraph), is that mind is similar to consciousness and awareness, in that it arises mutually and in proportion with the organization of biological energetic structures. Mind is more closely related to consciousness, in that consciousness is the fabric of mind’s existence, while awareness is the vehicle of mind’s information acquisition. I have investigated much of the formal reasonings about mind, and I have concluded, rightly or wrongly, that the contending and competing perspectives about mind are too convoluted and self-serving to be reconciled by my own mind, so.. I have studied mind from an observer’s perspective, listening to people’s use of the word and their understandings of Mind, and.. I also listen to my own mind’s understandings of its own processes. I also gave myself permission to fail, to make mistakes, to misunderstand, and to continue intending to understand. And, what has served my intentions well, is that I scrutinize my own beliefs and understandings, I sincerely try to find fault with the beliefs and understandings I accept as consistent with ‘what is so’.. so that what is left within my understandings has been scrutinized far more intensely than acceptable behavior allows me to scrutinize others..

 

I have concluded that my understanding of mind, what I believe about mind, is that mind is a medium common to all perception, awareness, experiences, imagination, reasoning, recollecting, and cognitive processes, and it is upon and through such medium that ‘that which is’ is made known in relation to itself (self-awareness). Mind is infinite and isolated at the same time, allowing for that which ‘is’ to utilize mind according to its intention, as an independently functioning ‘part’ of the infinite, and/or as ‘all’ of the eternal infinite, for exploring its own existence. Mind allows for isolated ‘parts’ of its wholeness to experience privacy as different ‘unique patterns’ of the same essence, like the unique snowflakes that are all the same essence of water. In this way, ‘that which is’ senses and perceives its existence in the same medium, mind, as the ‘isolated parts’ of itself experiences their freely interactive experiences with other ‘parts’, and with the part’s inherent awareness of itself as ‘that which is’, too.. a functional equality, as necessary to be true to your own experience of ‘You’..

 

What is brilliant about this relationship between the collective Whole (‘that which is’) and the unique individually functioning ‘parts’ of itself (which ‘is’, too), is the common medium of mind, where part and whole interact and ‘feel’ their inherent relationship through experiencing each other’s perceptions of existing. This ‘Mind’, as the medium within which all things are made known, is a curiously malleable and supple substance, taking the shape of its closest and most dominant influence, which is usually the intersection of perception and belief. Semi permanent shapes within the mind, usually the individualized ‘part’, are sometimes referred to and experienced as beliefs, rigid structures that are a bit like rocks in a stream, as they distort the flow of understanding into identifiable textures, ripples, and rapids. Equally acknowledged, are the beliefs that create harmony, like the beliefs that alert us to danger, or that remind us of necessary activities for our well-being, or that counsel us of our relationship with the continuum of Life.

 

What is impressive, from my perspective, is the omnipresence of ‘mind’. Mind acts as the interface between all individualized aspects of Wholeness and between those individualized aspects and their collective Wholeness, regardless of whether the reference to ‘collective’ applies to the perspective of the Whole perceiving the many, or the many perceiving the Whole. The same function of mind figures out how to communicate between different languages of people’s understandings, as it figures out the language of emotion or the language of insight and intuition which are communications between “part and whole”, exploring their common evolution through the common medium of mind.

 

Everything experienced and everything known, is made known through the mind’s capacity for organizing information, understanding consequences, and choosing from potential results. What is not often discussed are the mechanisms for acquiring information, and the functionality of the mechanisms. Mind, as the common medium of understanding, depends on information that it arranges as directed by the parameters established by ‘You’, either as the individuality, or as the collective (‘You’ are both, choosing your current perspective by where you apply your awareness). As the collective, your parameters are so broadly distributed as to include everything, and as the individuality your parameters vary widely depending on the individual’s understanding and awareness. In either case, the parameters are evident as ‘beliefs’, structures shaped by mind’s self-awareness and self-imagery, and arranged to affect how information is organized, how it is understood, and how potential results are chosen to perpetuate the belief structure.

 

So, i have presented the mind.. as the interface through which all of Life and existence is made known to and between each of us individually, and.. as each of us, individually, experience Life from our individual perspectives, our individualized function of Mind translates our experiences into the energy of ‘feeling’, the common language of Life, individually or collectively, so that.. in the instant of ‘Now happening’, the collective Mind ‘feels’ every detail of Life in every perspective of the individual perceivers, as an Energetic Symphony of frequencies and vibrations.. and, at that same instant every individual has total access to and with the totality of the ‘Mind of the Cosmos’, the collective consciousness.. this access is dependent on the ability to ‘feel’ the stillness of the individual Mind, in which there is the clarity to experience ‘what is’.. the individual Mind’s active attention to its local environment is like the activity on the surface of the Cosmic pool of awareness, it distorts the perception of what is below the surface, it distorts the perspectives of the depths of understanding..

 

This Mind is like a movie screen where on one side the energy of physical existence is projected onto it, and.. on the other side, the energy of an intangible collective Cosmic Wholeness is projected onto it.. individually and collectively, we ‘know’ Life and existence through the shared medium of this common Mind.. we will focus on small sections of the ‘movie screen’ on the side of the screen we favor, and our beliefs will wrinkle and distort the screen’s smooth potential for clarity, or.. we will allow calm stillness to provide the smooth translucent Mind’s awareness to realize.. that the two sides of the Mind’s ‘movie screen’ integrate both sides into a seamless Whole, two sides of the same awareness.. And, we/us/Life are that Mind’s exploration of itself as it translates the unknown into the known ..

 

Be well..

[thelerner]

Mind is a theater. There's a movie screen. Couple of often hungry guys in the audience. A projector.

 

Sometimes there's a guy in the back row watching the guys who watch the movie. Sometimes that guy is even outside the theater just doing his thing.

 

What else....? I think the guys have faulty remotes, and I don't know who the projector is.

Edited October 15, 2013 by thelerner

[Nungali]

Interesting in that the root of the word mind relates significantly to memory and you used the analogy of theatre.

 

A 'magical memory theatre' is an old concept and way of using memory , as a storage and retrieval system of information, that gave some amazing results.

 

See ; memory theatre of Giulio Camillo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giulio_Camillo

 

(I think it was Camillo who could spend all night at a high society party, drinking eating and conversing and at the end of the night could recite every word of the conversations he had, had heard - and remembered who said what and repeat it all … backwards, if one desired, as well ...

 

Mind is a theater. There's a movie screen. Couple of often hungry guys in the audience. A projector.

 

Sometimes there's a guy in the back row watching the guys who watch the movie. Sometimes that guy is even outside the theater just doing his thing.

 

What else....? I think the guys have faulty remotes, and I don't know who the projector is.

 

 

.

[C T]

bah. just lost an hour's typing to some glitch.

Edited October 16, 2013 by C T

[Nungali]

Sincere condolences ... I have compassionate empathy for you ... in other words; IT SUCKS DOESN'T IT?

[C T]

Sincere condolences ... I have compassionate empathy for you ... in other words; IT SUCKS DOESN'T IT?

yes, it does, sir.

 

haha!

 

all i did was to edit for streamlining purposes, and then everything just became a jumble of symbols!

 

so weird.

 

impermanence is an excellent teacher!

[doc benway]

 

 

impermanence is an excellent teacher!

 

Using TTB's as a cultivation tool!

[C T]

Using TTB's as a cultivation tool!

very much so, Steve!

[Brian]

Mind's mission is to distract you from living in the Light by occupying you with contemplations like "what is mind?"

 

Don't think too much.

 

(So says a new member of Overthinker's Anonymous...)

[Nungali]

Mind's mission is to distract you from living in the Light by occupying you with contemplations like "what is mind?"

 

... Like my overthoughtout response to what is mind? I was wondering if anyone got that joke

 

Did you like my response to "What is still mind?" ?

 

 

I was going to add ; when you cant achieve still mind just do the next best thing?

 

Q. What is the next best thing to still mind?

 

A. making up snappy koans and answers to try to show one has still mind.

 

Or (now) as well;

 

occupying youself with contemplations like "what is still mind?"

 

Don't think too much.

 

(So says a new member of Overthinker's Anonymous...)

Maybe balance it with Underthinkers Anonymous ... a few on Taobums seem to be members (or should be) maybe you could ask them about it?

Edited October 16, 2013 by Nungali

[gatito]

What is mind?

What is still mind?

Are there seven billion unique minds, or one mind with seven billion different perspectives?

 

 

although, perhaps it could be said, that asking mind to describe itself is an absurd proposition.

 

 

 

 

Pointing to a flag waving in a monastery, the monk says, “What is moving, the flag or the wind?” The answer is neither; the mind is moving.

 

Mind is just the current thought

 

Therefore there is no such thing as still mind (or, indeed, mind )

 

How can there then be either one mind or 7 billion (i.e the question is based on a false axiom)

 

The monk was wrong, as neither the flag nor the wind were the current thought (i.e. the moving flag is mediated by vision and the wind by tactile sensation and perhaps by hearing)

 

Had the monk said that Consciousness was moving, he would have been closer to the truth, but still....not quite there...

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Mind is a theater. There's a movie screen. Couple of often hungry guys in the audience. A projector.

 

Sometimes there's a guy in the back row watching the guys who watch the movie. Sometimes that guy is even outside the theater just doing his thing.

 

What else....? I think the guys have faulty remotes, and I don't know who the projector is.

 

I came up with an idea like this in my early teens, when I was really interested in movies, special effects, etc. Imagine my surprise years later when I discovered Plato's cave:

 

http://www.historyguide.org/intellect/allegory.html

 

and

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave

 

Nowadays my analogy is to holodecks, virtual reality and video games in which people lose track of who they are because they are too involved in the virtual reality.

 

None of which does justice to the concept of mind, for which it is hard to beat Plotinus.

 

[Jetsun]

What does mind arise within?

 

[Wynn]

still mind is often described as the cessation of thoughts, but I suspect that description is incomplete/inadequate; as is describing mind as thoughts only.

 

thoughts are neither good or bad, but becoming attached (and perhaps believing them) can many times be problematic for the one caught in their web

Edited October 16, 2013 by Wynn

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Interesting in that the root of the word mind relates significantly to memory and you used the analogy of theatre.

 

A 'magical memory theatre' is an old concept and way of using memory , as a storage and retrieval system of information, that gave some amazing results.

 

See ; memory theatre of Giulio Camillo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giulio_Camillo

 

(I think it was Camillo who could spend all night at a high society party, drinking eating and conversing and at the end of the night could recite every word of the conversations he had, had heard - and remembered who said what and repeat it all … backwards, if one desired, as well ...

 

At the bottom of the Wikipedia article is a reference to The Art of Memory by Frances Yates, which is the classic study of the art of memory, a practice that goes back to ancient Greek rhetoric. I read this book almost 40 years ago, you can read it now if you want:

 

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/art-of-memory-frances-a-yates/1116994498?ean=9780226950013

 

A book which Tao Bums may find interesting is The Memory Palace of Matteo Ricci by Jonathan D. Spence, which is about the first Jesuit missionary to enter China. It provides fascinating insight into Chinese society circa 1600 and is a good discussion of the art of memory itself. As an example the Jesuit mission was so well funded with silver that the Chinese were convinced that the Jesuits must have been master alchemists, a misconception which Ricci, a master of the Jesuit equivalent of 'skillful means' was only to happy to leave in place. It really is a good read:

 

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-memory-palace-of-matteo-ricci-jonathan-d-spence/1001834798?ean=9780140080988

[Jetsun]

still mind is often described as the cessation of thoughts, but I suspect that description is incomplete/inadequate; as is describing mind as thoughts only.

 

thoughts are neither good or bad, but becoming attached (and perhaps believing them) can many times be problematic for the one caught in their web

 

We fixate on our thoughts, or another way of looking at it is we get hypnotised by them, they put us in a trance state. Whatever the thoughts arise in is always still and at peace, which is why it doesn't really matter if your thoughts are still or not. Of course many people in the spiritual arena will tell you otherwise.

[Wynn]

We fixate on our thoughts, or another way of looking at it is we get hypnotised by them, they put us in a trance state. Whatever the thoughts arise in is always still and at peace, which is why it doesn't really matter if your thoughts are still or not. Of course many people in the spiritual arena will tell you otherwise.

 

I'm pretty sure it's not 'enlightenment', although maybe it could be called a realization .. but the cessation of thoughts seems to be a valuable hurdle to cross. They come back of course, but not entirely like before. Maybe it could be said .. that the timeless still silence becomes more 'noticed', and the thought streams, less 'clung to'.

 

 

No matter what you think .. what you know .. what you think you know ... all of it .. could be nothing more than your mind playing tricks on you. How would you know? Who's in charge of you? Who calls the shots? You? Who are you (really)?

Edited October 16, 2013 by Wynn