The Highest Level Of Immortality

[3bob]

The Self knows the Self by the Self, nothing else is complete and final satisfaction.

[Aetherous]

[Tibetan_Ice]

Its in your own quote genius.

 

How many times do I have to say it?

Hey, no fair. You said that Bon had illusory body before I put that quote in.

 

And it is obvious that you haven't read the book because the section where I pulled the quote was a section which was comparing the various views to Bon Dzogchen, dismissing each other view as inferior. In that chapter, Tantra is being put in the same cateogories as:

 

2. The Attaining of Buddhahood according to Sutra,

Tantra and Dzogchen 37

The Hinayana View 37

The Mahayana View 38

The Tantra View 40

The Dzogchen View 41

 

Yes, Bon has Sutra and Tantra, but even Tenzin Namdak says that they are different from other Tantras. Here, for example, he dismisses the higher tantras:

Fourth Contradiction- the Higher Tantra

In the Bonpo system, there are four kinds of T antra. The two

Lower Tantras are the Kriya Tantra (bya-ba'i rgyud) and Charya

Tantra (spyod-pa'i rgyud). The two Higher Tantras are called

Yeshen gyi Gyud (ye-gshen gyi rgyud) and Yeshen Chenpo Gyud

(ye-gshen chen-po'i rgyud). The distinction here is somewhat

similar to the distinction between Mahayoga T antra and Anuyoga

Tantra in the Nyingmapa system, and the distinction between

Father Tantra and Mother Tantra in the Sarmapa system.

The practitioner of the Higher Tantras asserts that we know

both awareness (rig-pa) and contemplation or equipoise (mnyambzhag,

samadhi). All the deities spontaneously exist; this is the

view of Yeshen gyi Gyud. Therefore, the Knowledge Being and

the Symbolic Being are like brothers, and what we unify here is

bliss (bde-ba) and emptiness (bde stong zung-'jug). All the deities

and the universe itself are visualized as arising from the dimension

of space (dbyings), that is to say, Shunyata. Everything is

connected with Shunyata and is a manifestation arising out of

Shunyata. We meditate on these visualizations and discover that

everything arises from this cycle of Dimension and Primordial

Awareness (dbyings dang ye-shes). So there can be no better view

than this!

To this the Dzogchenpa replies: You Tantrikas are still

grasping ('dzin-pa) at knowing Shunyata as an object. But our

Dzogchen view is beyond all grasping at anything. We do not

create anything whatsoever with the mind, such as visualizations

of deities and mandalas. We do not come to any conclusions or

create anything, but we go directly to the Natural State.

 

Therefore, our Dzogchen view is the higher. You Tantrikas are

always playing happily like children, that is, playing with

discursive thoughts. You are always trying to create or to dissolve

something. And this mind-created cycle is never finished. But

Dzogchen is not bounded by thoughts. All of the lower vehicles

are bounded by this sickness or obsession with discursive

thoughts, but the Natural State is primordially beyond all

thoughts and actions. In the Higher Tantras, you assert that all

the deities are reflections or manifestations (rtsal) of the state of

emptiness and that they are not created by thoughts. You say that

Dzogrim represents reality! They are not just mind-made

visualizations, as is the case with Kyerim practice. Everything

exists spontaneously. Yet you have to visualize deities and

mandalas. You are perpetually creating things with the mind, and

so you are always limited by thoughts. You are tied up with

thoughts. This is not at all compatible with Dzogchen. Dzogchen

is primordially liberated from all thoughts and deliberate actions.

In it, there is nothing artificial or contrived. Therefore, it represents

the highest view.

These replies found in the text clearly indicate why Dzogchen

is the deepest and highest view (lta-ba zab rgyas). We should

know these reasons why Dzogchen represents the highest view,

otherwise the assertion means nothing. For the practice of

Dzogchen, it is necessary to understand the Natural State, but it is

not necessary to create anything intellectually or experientially in

order to find ourselves in the Natural State.

 

 

[RongzomFan]

comparing the various views to Bon Dzogchen, dismissing each other view as inferior.

 

Yes that's pretty standard.

 

For example whenever the 9 yanas of Nyingma are presented, the lower 8 yanas are criticized.

 

Dudjom Rinpoche trashes the lower 8 Nyingma yanas:

 

"The eight lower levels have intellectually fabricated and contrived that which is changeless solely due to fleeting thoughts that never experience what truly is. They apply antidotes to and reject that which is not to be rejected. They refer to as flawed that in which there is nothing to be purified, with a mind that desires purification. They have created division with respect to that which cannot be obtained by their hopes and fears that it can be obtained elsewhere. And they have obscured wisdom, which is naturally present, by their efforts in respect to that which is free from effort and free from needing to be accomplished. Therefore, they have had no chance to make contact with genuine, ultimate reality as it is (rnal ma'i de kho na nyid)."

 

Detailed criticism of each of the lower 8 yanas is available in Dudjom Rinpoche's big red book, among other places.

Edited October 20, 2013 by RongzomFan

[9th]

Where do you think George Lucas got the idea for "the force" and "Yoda" ??

 

Castaneda, and Joseph Campbell, respectively.

 

 

 

 

Power is something a warrior deals with. At first it's an incredible, far-fetched affair; it is hard to even think about it. Then power becomes a serious matter; one may not have it, or one may not even fully realize that it exists, yet one knows that something is there, something which was not noticeable before. Next power is manifested as something uncontrollable that comes to oneself. It is not possible for me to say how it comes or what it really is. It is nothing and yet it makes marvels appear before your very eyes. And finally power is something in oneself, something that controls one's acts and yet obeys one's command.

- Castaneda

 

 

Ben Kenobi: Remember, a Jedi can feel the Force flowing through him.

Luke Skywalker: You mean it controls your actions?

Ben Kenobi: Partially, but it also obeys your commands.

 

 

His role is precisely that of the Wise Old Man of the myths and fairy tales whose words assist the hero through the trials and terrors of the weird adventure. He is the one who appears and points to the magic shining sword that will kill the dragon-terror, tells of the waiting bride and the castle of many treasures, applies healing balm to the almost fatal wounds, and finally dismisses the conqueror, back into the world of normal life, following the great adventure into the enchanted night.

 

- Joseph Campbell

 

http://engl200x.community.uaf.edu/files/2012/04/The-Hero-with-a-Thousand-Faces.pdf

[thelerner]

digitalyogi, on 19 Oct 2013 - 15:39, said:

Where do you think George Lucas got the idea for "the force" and "Yoda" ??

 

e="1382384414">

 

 

Castaneda, and Joseph Campbell, respectively.

 

I still say Aikido. See: http://aikidoforbeginners.blogspot.com/2010/02/star-wars-george-lucas-aikido-ki-and.html

 

Excerpt: ...When researching the Force, Lucas talked to several Aikido masters because he was very interested in the concept of the mystical Ki. I'm not sure about the extent to which aikido and Ki influenced him when creating the Force (as Life Force can be found in far too many cultures) but aikido and Ki had to have a definite impact on the birth of the Force...

 

..What about the Jedi? The name itself comes from the Japanese words "Jidai Geki" which translate as "period adventure drama." Maybe it's my limited knowledge of the English language but, for a while, I didn't know what a period drama was. Then I learned that it was a drama set in a certain age or era, and Jidai Geki is actually a kind of TV soap opera that is set in the samurai days. So Jidai geki basically means samurai films, and to interpret the "period" part of the phrase, here's an example: "Meiji jidai" means "Meiji period". Lucas had been in Japan before creating the first Star Wars movie and he simply liked the words and the name of the Jedi order was born..."

 

Ofcourse he probably pulled it from a few sources. It is in many ways a wild west story set up as space opera with a little mysticism thrown in. The article mentions an old black and white Japanese film as a big influence 'The Hidden Fortress' which itself drew from old Westerns. Good flick. As I recall it was written on the fly with actors not knowing from day to day which way it would end.

[9th]

I still say Aikido.

 

Say whatever you want. But since there was a direct quote from the Castaneda book in the movie's dialog, I would say there is an influence there. Lucas stole from everything for that movie, sorta like a sci-fi proto-tarantino. The main idea for Jedis comes from the old "Lensman" books. The sound effects for R2-D2, as well as the name for Obiwan came from this:

 

 

(its an Oberheim OB-1)

 

 

But none of this is much of a big deal because Star Trek >>> Star Wars anyways. Lucas made those derivative (somewhat garbage) films just so he could sell action figures and ewok dolls.

[Aetherous]

Could "Jedi" have anything to do with the Egyptian word, "djed"?

[gendao]

Where do you think George Lucas got the idea for "the force" and "Yoda" ??

Tsenzhab Serkong Rinpoche was a massive man – a monk with shaved head, red robes, and a deeply lined face that made him look more ancient than his years. His humble, wise manner and gentle humor made him appear like the archetypal sage of fables. This quality did not escape the notice of Westerners who met him. Upon seeing him in Dharamsala, for instance, the makers of the popular film Star Wars decided to use him as the model for Yoda, the spiritual guide of the epic.

Star Wars was basically a reappropriated sci-fi "Eastern" hung on stock Campbellian framework..

 

Cool OB-1 backstory, though!

Edited October 22, 2013 by vortex

[Thunder_Gooch]

Quigon Jinn the teacher of Obi Wan, his name comes directly from qigong.

[Jadespear]

Don't know if anyone had thought anymore about this... but I did. 

 

I think what is referred to as the rainbow body is the result of a trained process of achieving a harmony, balance, and eventual absorption of the 5 essences, principles, or frequencies of light that correspond to the classical elements of ether, fire, air, water, and earth from their physical expression back into their basis and inherent nature of uncreated or clear light of awareness of our basic spiritual constitution. 

 

In short... dissolving our consciousness back into its source through willful transmutation or action. 

 

I dont know really... just an attempt. 

 

[Jadespear]

Don't know if anyone had thought anymore about this... but I did. 

 

I think what is referred to as the rainbow body is the result of a trained process of achieving a harmony, balance, and eventual absorption of the 5 essences, principles, or frequencies of light that correspond to the classical elements of ether, fire, air, water, and earth from their physical expression back into their basis and inherent nature of uncreated or clear light of awareness of our basic spiritual constitution. 

 

In short... dissolving our consciousness back into its source through willful transmutation or action. 

 

I dont know really... just an attempt.