Before Shaolin there was India.

[Protector]

Sarcasm that takes up more then one page

[Wells]

Sarcasm that takes up more then one page

 

It's trolling to claim in a taoist forum that the chinese got all their most important cultural possessions as their kung fu and chi kung from an indian guy wandering through!

Edited October 18, 2013 by Dorian Black

[Wells]

In fact it's an outrage!

[Wells]

In the early 6th century when Bodhidharma took Buddhism with him to China (Shaolin Temple), he also took and introduced to the Chinese monks an Indian martial arts called Kalaripayattu. This came to be known as Kung-Fu and later on went on to several Asian countries and took shape of several Asian fighting arts.

 

You claim that the chinese were not able to invent martial arts independently from whatever Damo taught to the Shaolin!

That claim is completely absurd.

 

I guess you are convinced the chinese got their astronomical knowledge also somehow from India?

Edited October 18, 2013 by Dorian Black

[Wells]

The only way to survive in the world of kung fu was not to die, and many styles challenged each other until we got what we have today. The Shaolin temple was constantly under attack from people like that until one day they found a way to fight. Then they called the local masters and the mix of all that became Shaolin. Many Chinese martial arts are rooted in Shaolin system because of what came into it and what came out of it, but it had to start somewhere.

 

So there were many kung fu styles around in china already before Damo came along. How is that possible if Damo introduced the Shaolin as the first ones in china at all to kung fu?

 

This contradicts the thesis of the OP...and corresponds with my personal opinion.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Dorian Black

[Mudryah]

I'm talking only about Shaolin Temple arts. Hahahaha lets not be so sensitive. This isn't high school.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Mudryah

[Mudryah]

My friend works near Shaolin Temple so I can ask her to verify the information.

[SonOfTheGods]

don't forget about the caucasian mummies that were found in China.

[Protector]

don't forget about the caucasian mummies that were found in China.

 

Unrelated, they were some Romans who got lost

[SonOfTheGods]

Unrelated, they were some Romans who got lost

everything is related

 

romans lol

[mjjbecker]

Historians can't even agree on the events that took place in the 1980's...

 

Were there influences from India and beyond? I would think so. Look at the history, particularly in regards to trade.

 

As for methods being 'Indian' or 'Chinese', again look at the evidence you can see now. In regards to Taijiquan alone, look at the variations that have developed in the last 100 years alone. There are multiple branches of Chen, Yang and Wu, never mind the fact you have the 'five family' styles that are recognised.

 

Its all good. Enjoy it, bless the ancestors for what they created and passed on, and don't worry about answers to things we'll never likely know.

[silent thunder]

Historians can't even agree on the events that took place in the 1980's...

 

Were there influences from India and beyond? I would think so. Look at the history, particularly in regards to trade.

 

As for methods being 'Indian' or 'Chinese', again look at the evidence you can see now. In regards to Taijiquan alone, look at the variations that have developed in the last 100 years alone. There are multiple branches of Chen, Yang and Wu, never mind the fact you have the 'five family' styles that are recognised.

 

Its all good. Enjoy it, bless the ancestors for what they created and passed on, and don't worry about answers to things we'll never likely know.

*deep bow*

well said.

[ChiForce]

Hahahah..at least Shaolin Kung Fu is REAL. Hahahaha.... Who does not know about Shaolin Kung Fu? India what???

[ChiForce]

Does someone need to invent fighting?

 

Even little kids fight without being taught.

Ah...no. To fight with your chi and to direct your chi to your opponents.

[ChiDragon]

Hahahah..at least Shaolin Kung Fu is REAL. Hahahaha.... Who does not know about Shaolin Kung Fu? India what???

 

Similarly, Buddhism was originated from India but it is not their national religion. It was China that spread Buddhism around the world. Now, so is shaolin Kung Fu.

[RongzomFan]

Similarly, Buddhism was originated from India but it is not their national religion.

 

It was at one point. When Indian culture spread over Asia, it took the dominant Indian religion at the time, Buddhism along with Ayurveda etc.

 

India is the guru country of Asia.

Edited October 19, 2013 by RongzomFan

[ChiForce]

 

Similarly, Buddhism was originated from India but it is not their national religion. It was China that spread Buddhism around the world. Now, so is shaolin Kung Fu.

I think it was Zen or Chan Buddhism that took its form. We are talking about events dated back thousands and thousands of years ago. If anything should come out of this "revelation," it would have happened already.

[RongzomFan]

It was China that spread Buddhism around the world.

 

Chinese emperors used to have Tibetan lamas.

[kevin_wallbridge]

Wow. Some folks have a pretty wild definition of "history." Anyone want to reference a source for any of the speculations here, or shall we stick with divine inspiration and metaphysical channelling?

[mjjbecker]

India what???

 

Here's what:

 

http://www.kalarippayatt.co.uk/2012/index.php

 

If Paul Whitrod thinks there is some value to Indian martial arts, given his background in Chinese martial arts, then I for one would not argue with him.

 

http://www.chowgarsouthernmantis.com/paulwhitrod.php

 

 

Later at the age of 15 years in early 1975 He started Chow Gar Praying Mantis Kung fu, under the tutelage of Yip Chee Keung Sifu, who came to London in 1974. Yip Chee Keung Sifu is the son of the famous Great Grand master Yip Shui, who was foremost authority on the Chow Gar Praying Mantis system until his death at 93 in 2004. After only 4 or so years in London Yip Chee Keung Sifu went back to Hong Kong, and from there he extended an invitation to Paul Whitrod to come and study in Hong Kong. Accommodation was no real problem as Grand master Yip Shui wanted Paul to stay in his Hong Kong home, so that He could be under the Grand master guidance 24 hours a day.

 

It was from here that Paul Whitrod was to complete the Chow Gar Praying Mantis kung fu system as well as Dit Dar medicine (fall & hit medicine) that deal with massage, and injuries due to martial arts practise.

 

He became a closed-door student and went through the ritual of giving the tea (sifu tea) to grandmaster Yip Shui so he could learn the finer things of this unique art and being situated right at the heart of system, placed him in a perfect learning environment. In the fall 1986 Paul Whitrod opened his first full-time school in London and the following year invited his Yip Shui Sigung and Yip Chee Keung Sifu to London. It was at this time they made Sifu Whitrod has the UK representative of the Chow Gar Praying Mantis kung fu of June 1987. In the early days of training in Hong Kong there many contests Paul Whitrod had to go through, some crossing hand, some testing of skill involving other martial artist. These were no hold barred contest and took place in Hong Kong and in UK.

[ChiForce]

Here's what:

 

http://www.kalarippayatt.co.uk/2012/index.php

 

If Paul Whitrod thinks there is some value to Indian martial arts, given his background in Chinese martial arts, then I for one would not argue with him.

 

http://www.chowgarsouthernmantis.com/paulwhitrod.php

Something must have lost its translation. What does this Indian Kung Fu say about Chi and using Chi to harness one's internal force to strike its opponents??? BTW, I only know chi as a source of consciousness illumination and in a state of Samadhi and health rejuvenation. I have never studied or being trained by any masters to use Chi to cause harms to others. Practicing Kung Fu without harnessing the chi is mere exercises.

[ChiForce]

Maybe your Indian Kung Fu fan boys should do some fact checks in Wikipedia before trolling..... Anyway, if anything should have happened, it would have happened hundreds of years ago.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaolin_Kung_Fu

[mjjbecker]

Maybe your Indian Kung Fu fan boys should do some fact checks in Wikipedia before trolling..... Anyway, if anything should have happened, it would have happened hundreds of years ago.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaolin_Kung_Fu

 

Are you seriously citing me with Wikipedia?! Wikipedia over sources of information from people who have been there, seen it and done it?

 

Southern praying mantis is one of the most respected methods of combat ever to come out of China. The Indian martial arts and methods of cultivation have a depth of knowledge, history and culture you seemingly would be incapable of grasping in an eon of reincarnation.

 

Go and educate yourself and get some real experience before uttering such disgraceful and ignorant rubbish.

[ChiDragon]

I think it was Zen or Chan Buddhism that took its form. We are talking about events dated back thousands and thousands of years ago. If anything should come out of this "revelation," it would have happened already.

 

To best of my knowledge, I don't think Buddhism practice was dated back thousands and thousands of years ago.

 

I had been traveled to the western part of China by the silk road at one time and Tibet at another time. In the western region, I had seen the early historical sights of Buddhism has much greater influence than Central China. The reasons for that was when the high Indian monks travel to Central China, they had to go across the Himalaya Mountain first . The first place they had reached was Tibet. Hence, Tibet had their strong religious belief influenced by Buddhism. Furthermore, some ruins along the path of the silk road also had shown a strong influence of Buddhism.

 

Zen or Chan was only practiced by high Buddhist monks in the temples. It was considered to be a high level of cultivation in the Buddhism religion.

 

PS....

The Indian Buddhism influence was indicated by the facial features of the Buddha figure. In the western region, the facial feature of the figures are Hindus. As one travels more toward Central China, the facial feature are more Chinese like the Empress of the Tang Dynasty.

Edited October 19, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Nungali]

Hmmm .... feels like I am carefully wading through a dojo of people scuffling with each other while I try to get to the book shelf on the other wall to look up something.

 

It IS a dojo that is pretty far removed from what you guys seem to be talking about ... but could even be seen as 'descended' from some Chinese forms ... of course , it also has its natural and 'national' forms ( I don't know of any 'pure forms' ).

 

And Sensei did say it is all based on White Crane originally ( his 'top kata' does seem to have some bird like moves in it).

 

I will practice it ... some say it is silly; "That end pose looks like something out of Karate Kid."

 

"No it doesn't ! It doesn't look anything like it! ...

 

" Besides that 'pose' is a coded movement memory , that is just the LAST position I will end up in at the end of a certain technique - you don't expect us to give everything away in a 'public dance' do you? Allow me to demonstrate." <devious grin>

 

... ...

 

" Owww ... Okay! .... but HEY! Look at that . .. Shiva dancing ! Did your style come from India ? "

 

" I don't think so ... who knows ? ... but keep THAT down in here. "

 

(PS. I only have 2 arms so ....)

Edited October 19, 2013 by Nungali