Before Shaolin there was India.

[Wells]

you're confusing India with the Hollow Earth

 

...so Germany's ancestors the Aryans came from a world inside the Hollow Earth and not from India???

Wow, this thesis is even more compelling!!!

Edited October 21, 2013 by Dorian Black

[ChiForce]

I agree. This is another instance of what I describe as Vedic fundamentalism, the proponents of which claim that India is the source of all and everything great.

Hahaha...and except the country, India, itself. That's so Jesus Christ...More than half of the population is living in some sort of poverty. Women are being raped every minute. Infrastructures like bridges collapsing whenever there is a pilgrimage.

[ChiForce]

But wait a minute!!! Even the German Nazi Master Race, the Aryans originate in India!!!

The proof is that the Nazi "Reichsflugscheiben"-UFO's were simply rebuild Vimanas from the old Indian Gods/ Alien Masters!!! The knowledge how to rebuild them was channeled from the Aliens from their home planet in the Aldebaran star system telepathically over the female mediums of the "Vril Gesellschaft" to their descendants, the Nazis!!!

So it has to be true: India is the single source of everything that's great on earth!!!

 

<- Indian Gods and their Vimanas

 

^ Hitler (after WWII and the death of his clone in the Berlin Fuhrer Bunker) with a "Reichsflugscheibe" in his antarctic Nazi Base "Neuschwabenland"!

 

Therefore some "aliens" look like Germans and speak in German:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_flyingobjects55.htm

Hahah...space Nazi and space Buddha,,,,,LOL And they don't like Jews somehow....

[Yulaw]

On the walls of the shaolin temple are Indian and Chinese monks practicing together that's the only evidence of it but we will never know. The same with Zhang San Feng.

 

Sorry to interrupt the alien space Nazi bits but....

 

I missed this the first time around and you know being a long time Taijiquan guy Zhang sanfeng is one of my favorite mythical figures from Chinese history to discuss

 

The big problem with throwing Zhang Sanfeng into the mix is..... which one

 

There is some speculation that Zhang Sanfeng was officially mentioned much earlier but so far the only thing I have come across that is solid and provable is he was first mentioned in the 1650s in the “Epitaph of Wang Zhengnan” written by Huang Zongxi (1610-1695) [note: Chen Wangting 1600-1680] and he is mentioned there Wang Zhengnan is the only living successor to the martial arts lineage of neijia of which Zhang Sanfeng is the founder. He refers to Zhang Sanfeng as a Taoist alchemist and says that Zhang Sanfeng revised Shaolin style to emphasis offense and defense using softness and not relying on hardness. However it is not called taiji it is called Baiji by Wang’s son and it has little in common with taijiquan with no internal training and it is big on pressure point techniques. But it is a soft style like taiji.

 

But to the reference to Zhang Sanfeng in the Epitaph; it is believed it is more of a political move than a historical reference. A bit of “take that you foreign Manchu oppressors” kind of thing.

 

And now back to which Zhang Sanfeng?

 

Sun Lutang sets Zhang Sanfeng it Yuan Dynasty (1279-1368)

 

or the ones that were mentioned by Xu Yusheng who associated the name Zhang Sanfeng with at lest 10 different people but ultimately puts Zhang Sanfeng in the Sung Dynasty (969-1126) and who had hundreds of disciples in Shaanxi. And of course there is the Zhang Sanfeng born in 1247 during the Southern Sung Dynasty (1127-1279) and there is another reference to him by another author that puts him in the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644)

 

In China since 1650 Zhang Sanfeng has been called a Taoist, a Shaolin Master, a Warrior and a Confucian by various rather well trained and reputable Chinese writers that were writing “the facts” about Zhang Sanfeng…based on hear say and myth.

 

And it has also been said since 1650 that Zhang Sanfeng created taiji by watching a snake and a bird fight. And of course there is the cave; by being lead by a mysterious light into a cave (Martial arts founders like caves apparently) where he found 2 golden snakes and a book that gave him the idea for taijiquan. and it is also said that he took from the Yellow Emperor and Lao Tzu to devise taiji.

 

There is a rather long list of reputable authors since 1650 that have written histories of taijiquan that have linked it to Zhang Sanfeng in various ways but few have ever given any biographical information about him beyond myth. So far the only ones that completely ignore Zhang Senfeng is the Chen family and they have good reason to since it does not align with their taiji creation story.

 

Chinese history tends to be punctuated with myth. A good example Yue Fei (1103-1142) although a real person and military officer is credited with the founding of several martial arts styles when if fact he nothing to do with most or any of them. It is an attempt at legitimacy or outright salesmanship by the person teaching the art. Yue Fei was a great warrior but he was not as prolific (in his short life) at developing martial arts styles as he is given credit for.

 

Now before I forget since the topic is Bodhidharma and marital arts at Shaolin

 

 

Bodhidharma: (allegedly) 5th century CE (time period from 401 to 500) or (the 6th century CD the period from 501 to 600)

 

 

First Shaolin Monastery 477 AD

 

 

First writings about Martial Arts in China 2697 BC

 

 

The Art was referred to as jiao di which was an early Chinese term for wrestling,

It is believed that it is the root of Shuaijiao which would makes Shuaijiao one of the if not the oldest martial arts system on the planet

Edited October 21, 2013 by Yulaw

[dwai]

But wait a minute!!! Even the German Nazi Master Race, the Aryans originate in India!!!

The proof is that the Nazi "Reichsflugscheiben"-UFO's were simply rebuild Vimanas from the old Indian Gods/ Alien Masters!!! The knowledge how to rebuild them was channeled from the Aliens from their home planet in the Aldebaran star system telepathically over the female mediums of the "Vril Gesellschaft" to their descendants, the Nazis!!!

So it has to be true: India is the single source of everything that's great on earth!!!

 

<- Indian Gods and their Vimanas

 

^ Hitler (after WWII and the death of his clone in the Berlin Fuhrer Bunker) with a "Reichsflugscheibe" in his antarctic Nazi Base "Neuschwabenland"!

 

Therefore some "aliens" look like Germans and speak in German:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_flyingobjects55.htm

I would recommend not spreading crap like that. The Nazis appropriated Indian traditions and history to give their ridiculous claims validity.

 

If you don't like Indian traditions and their narrative thereoff, you are free to not read, learn, share that. Don't spread BS and malign what is a living breathing system (only non-abrahamic tradition in it's original form in the world still standing, Daoism is experiencing revival, but it was all but decimated by Chairman Mao and his goons).

[Wells]

I would recommend not spreading crap like that. The Nazis appropriated Indian traditions and history to give their ridiculous claims validity.

 

If you don't like Indian traditions and their narrative thereoff, you are free to not read, learn, share that. Don't spread BS and malign what is a living breathing system (only non-abrahamic tradition in it's original form in the world still standing, Daoism is experiencing revival, but it was all but decimated by Chairman Mao and his goons).

 

You actually thought that I was serious with this completely absurd post...? LOL!

 

 

 

Sure I was!!! There is no doubt that especially the Foto with Hitler & the UFO is 100% authentic!!!

 

Further proof:

The Fuhrer meets Lord Shiva, leader of the Aldebaran Aliens, in person!

 

 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2013 by Dorian Black

[9th]

[9th]

[ChiDragon]

 

The symbol on the left is for Buddhism Nazi. The one on the right is neither for Buddhism nor Nazism.

Edited October 21, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Wells]

The symbol on the left is for Nazi. The one on the right is for Buddhism.

 

LOL! So Nazism and Buddhism "mirror" each other?

 

Fun fact: When I was interested in Buddhism about 20 years ago, I read an original german book out of the time of the third Reich from a guy named Grimm who obviously tried to make Buddhism popular in Nazi Germany! He always called Buddha "the greatest Aryan" in his book, hahaha!

[Yulaw]

The symbol on the left is for Nazi. The one on the right is for Buddhism.

Actually you have that backwards...kinda

 

The one on the right is a Nazi Swastika, it points to the right the one on the left is Buddhist it points to the left, however you can on occasion find a Buddhist symbol that points to the right but it has absolutely nothing to do with Nazism and was a round a long time before the Nazi party was ever thought of

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nazi_swastika_clean.svg

[9th]

The symbol on the left is for Nazi. The one on the right is for Buddhism.

 

they are both from the indus valley, long before either nazis or buddhism

[Wells]

The one on the right is a Nazi Swastika, it points to the right the one on the left is Buddhist it points to the left,

 

Both "point" in the same 4 directions!

[ChiDragon]

Actually you have that backwards...kinda

 

The one on the right is a Nazi Swastika, it points to the right the one on the left is Buddhist it points to the left, however you can on occasion find a Buddhist symbol that points to the right but it has absolutely nothing to do with Nazism and was a round a long time before the Nazi party was ever thought of

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nazi_swastika_clean.svg

 

Okay, sorry, it was the picture with Hitler in it had the negative reversed.

 

I will make the correction. There were two errors on my part. The one on the right is not the Nazi Swastika neither because it should be tilted. You are correct about the one on the left. However, it shouldn't be reversed as you have said it was possible it may be. If you have seen it in reverse, it must be a mistake. Unless, I have been proven to be wrong.

 

Please note that the direction of each symbol is in opposite.

Tilted Nazi symbol

Buddhism

Edited October 21, 2013 by ChiDragon

[silent thunder]

Seems to me all kung fu originated in the supernova responsible for our solar system...

Edited October 21, 2013 by silent thunder

[SonOfTheGods]

...so Germany's ancestors the Aryans came from a world inside the Hollow Earth and not from India???

Wow, this thesis is even more compelling!!!

Hitler was a big Blavatsky fan.

[Yulaw]

Both "point" in the same 4 directions!

 

Yup but one points to the left to the 4 directions (N <--) and one points to the right (-->N)

Edited October 22, 2013 by Yulaw

[Yulaw]

they are both from the indus valley, long before either nazis or Buddhism

 

You can find it all over the place throughout history and religion, heck you can even find it in the Naval Amphibious Base in Coronado California... a rather large one actually

[altiora]

LOL! So Nazism and Buddhism "mirror" each other?

 

Fun fact: When I was interested in Buddhism about 20 years ago, I read an original german book out of the time of the third Reich from a guy named Grimm who obviously tried to make Buddhism popular in Nazi Germany! He always called Buddha "the greatest Aryan" in his book, hahaha!

What I find most objectionable about the Vedic fundamentalists/supermacists is that there is an implicit racist overtone, ie that only Vedic people and no other people were sufficiently advanced to create such things as acupuncture, language, martial arts, spirituality and other great things. It is not wonder that the Nazis seized on this thinking to advance their agenda.

[xor]

Let's not get too much into nazis. I think Shaolin deserves better.

[9th]

What I find most objectionable about the Vedic fundamentalists/supermacists is that there is an implicit racist overtone, ie that only Vedic people and no other people were sufficiently advanced to create such things as acupuncture, language, martial arts, spirituality and other great things. It is not wonder that the Nazis seized on this thinking to advance their agenda.

 

You mean the Theosophists? The Thule Society (which later became the nazi party) had a few ex-theosophists in its ranks. But yes, the idea that aryans (sanskrit for "noble") are a master race from atlantis comes from Blavatsky, and "The Secret Doctrine" et al. Oddly enough, the aryans (or whoever invented sanskrit) did not originate in the indus valley, they were just conquering nomads who passed through. Pantheons with storm gods at the lead is a common cultural inheritance among a number of different races/cultures. That particular bloodline seems to have been dispersed all across eurasia thousands of years ago.

[silent thunder]

the victor writes the history...

[dwai]

You mean the Theosophists? The Thule Society (which later became the nazi party) had a few ex-theosophists in its ranks. But yes, the idea that aryans (sanskrit for "noble") are a master race from atlantis comes from Blavatsky, and "The Secret Doctrine" et al. Oddly enough, the aryans (or whoever invented sanskrit) did not originate in the indus valley, they were just conquering nomads who passed through. Pantheons with storm gods at the lead is a common cultural inheritance among a number of different races/cultures. That particular bloodline seems to have been dispersed all across eurasia thousands of years ago.

There was never any Aryan race.

 

Arya is a term that means "Noble" in Sanskrit and has been used since the dawn of the Vedic civilization, from the times of the Indus-Sarasvati Valley.

 

So, while there is no basis for the Nazi-Aryan link beyond the fantasies of the Nazis themselves, the statement that the "Aryans" were conquering Nomads from Central Asia/Europe is also a disproven affair (basically all speculations wrt any "Aryan invasion" or "Aryan Migration" is suspect and will over the next 2-3 decades be completely eradicated).

 

The vedic people were the ancestors of all the original people of the Indian subcontinent. And no, I don't care to argue/debate this (been there, done that many years back).

[9th]

The vedic people were the ancestors of all the original people of the Indian subcontinent. And no, I don't care to argue/debate this (been there, done that many years back).

 

The indus valley civilization predates the Vedas, and the Sanskrit language. We dont need to debate this, its already been done. Im not necessarily interested in proving ancient history, either. But the common ground of religious symbolism and various interlinked etymologies spread across numerous languages attest to a widespread influence of a common ancestral heritage among cultures ranging all across europe and asia. That is not to say those ancient peoples or their influences are "superior" in any way. But they clearly got around, and they clearly had an influence.

[dwai]

The indus valley civilization predates the Vedas, and the Sanskrit language. We dont need to debate this, its already been done. Im not necessarily interested in proving ancient history, either. But the common ground of religious symbolism and various interlinked etymologies spread across numerous languages attest to a widespread influence of a common ancestral heritage among cultures ranging all across europe and asia. That is not to say those ancient peoples or their influences are "superior" in any way. But they clearly got around, and they clearly had an influence.

There is no evidence to prove that the so-called "indus Valley civilization" is not also the Vedic civilization.

All basis for speculation over the past 100 odd years wrt this is Max Mueller's dating of the Vedas (which was biblically inspired, therefore it's scientific validity is immediately suspect).

 

The academic opinion on this is divided neatly in two camps (those that consider IVC as "pre-/non-Vedic" vs those who consider IVC as the Indus-Sarasvati Civilization, thereby proto-Vedic/Vedic).

 

Like I said, I'm not interested in arguments and debates regarding this. Those of us who know and study this field also know the kind of provincialism that is prevalent in academia related to this field (indology).

 

You would do well to read some non-western narratives on this matter (especially some by indian scholars who don't have euro-centric axes to grind in this regard).