Before Shaolin there was India.

[nine tailed fox]

its of no use

 

i dont see any good teachers in india now

 

or may be i am not ready yet

[ChiForce]

Are you seriously citing me with Wikipedia?! Wikipedia over sources of information from people who have been there, seen it and done it?

 

Southern praying mantis is one of the most respected methods of combat ever to come out of China. The Indian martial arts and methods of cultivation have a depth of knowledge, history and culture you seemingly would be incapable of grasping in an eon of reincarnation.

 

Go and educate yourself and get some real experience before uttering such disgraceful and ignorant rubbish.

Yeah, you got it right. The world got it wrong. Wikipedia is all about conspiracy to keep the Indians down. So, now, use this revelation of yours to do something about it.

[silent thunder]

Yeah, you got it right. The world got it wrong. Wikipedia is all about conspiracy to keep the Indians down. So, now, use this revelation of yours to do something about it.

Not conspiracy, but since anybody can edit wikipedia... it is not a very reliable source.

For anything you care about deeply... find multiple sources and then bet the common ground might have something resembling truth.

 

Better yet... practice and use your own experience.

[三江源]

.

Edited July 8, 2014 by cat

[9th]

Unrelated, they were some Romans who got lost

 

Thats wrong, the bloodline of those mummies is Celtic/Nordic. They also had much more advanced textile skills than the native eastern peoples they lived amongst. Apparently the Silk Road has been populated for much longer than was previously assumed. They also found marijuana on some of them.

[Nungali]

Hey guys ... I confess near total ignorance of the subject but ... errrmmmmm ....

 

When those soft and fabby monks were sitting around doing nothing but meditating and needing defence of their crops and food stores ...

 

who were they defending them from ... bandits with no martial skills or weapons?

 

No local warloards around with martial skills and weapons? No army?

 

I better go back and re-read the first post to see exactly what is being talked about here.

 

(It reminds me about the conversation where Okinawan Martial Arts were said to have an origin in Chinese arts ...what, Okinawa was total utopia before the Chinese came along? Chinese arts had a big LATER INFLUENCE in Okinawa ... but still, today Okinawan arts are very different (compare White Crane form and 'Hakatsuru' similar but distinctly different)

[Nungali]

Thats wrong, the bloodline of those mummies is Celtic/Nordic. They also had much more advanced textile skills than the native eastern peoples they lived amongst. Apparently the Silk Road has been populated for much longer than was previously assumed. They also found marijuana on some of them.

...

.

OOOooo ! was it still smokable (ha that freaked out spell check check)?

If they were Romans it was probably an expedition to Bactria that went too far north (too stoned, got lost?).

 

On a more serious note; If they were ‘celtic’, I am confused ( have you got a link to that info I want to check it out). If they were P.I.E.’s they may have come from the nearby Aryan homelands of Airyana Vaeja.

 

http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/aryans/location.htm

 

People got from Africa into China somehow, the silk root (check maps on above site) looks like the obvious route, so it goes way back … WAAAAY back ... before there was silk.

 

I am a strong advocate that Martial arts started in Africa

.

Edited October 20, 2013 by Nungali

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Not much time, here is a link:

 

http://www.philipcoppens.com/turim_mummies.html

 

 

Edit: added comma

Edited October 20, 2013 by Zhongyongdaoist

[Nungali]

Not much time here is a link:

 

http://www.philipcoppens.com/turim_mummies.html

Excellent on a quick view - dying to read now but also busy ... promised myself to weed the lettuce patch.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

I have a little more time now, the link i posted above was the first site that had a picture that conveyed immediately that these people were not Chinese. Bear in mind this fellows skin was dried in the desert and he is about 3000 years old a little yellowing of the skin is to be expected, but his hair is naturally red:

 

 

He is referred to as Cherchen Man and Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherchen_Man) describes him this way:

 

The mummy is described as: a 3,000 year old male, "6-foot-6-inch giant with Caucasian features", with hair that is "reddish brown flecked with grey, framing high cheekbones", an "aquiline" "long nose, full lips and a ginger beard", whose face is tattooed with "yellow and purple patterns", it wears "a red twill tunic and tartan leggings"; it is also described as looking "like a Bronze Age European", "a Celt"

 

I have been familiar with these mummies since the early 1990s and have done more research on them in the years since. They are really quite interesting. If I recall correctly the marijuana was found on someone dressed in Shamanic garb whose DNA linked him with India. Otherwise, the rest seemed very Celtic/Nordic in appearance and DNA. Their cloth was in plaids that could have been a modern Tartan, but they are thousands of years old. There are other interesting aspects to their dress also, particularly the women, some of whose hats are tall cones with flat brims, which certainly suggests 'witches'. Here is the Wikipedia link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarim_mummies

 

This is obviously to early to be a Roman, nor are they really dressed quite right.

[Nungali]

Ha! 'New Dawn' magazine strikes again. IMO a mix of Anthropological ideas based on modern finds and mumbo-jumbo.

 

My mix of Anthropology and mumbo-jumbo is quiet different and backed up by archaeology... as far as back as we have evidence and then we go to other records ... not the writings of Blavatsky ... which is based on evidence that is far too late but the upon the earliest records we have from the earliest Vedas, the Avestas (which both target the similar 'Homeland' Airyana Vaeja), the Iranian Bundahishn and The Shahnameh- Book of Kings, ( an epic composed by the Iranian poet Hakim Abul-Qasim Mansur later known as Ferdowsi Tusi, and completed around 1010 CE. - Ferdowsi means 'from paradise', and is derived from the name Ferdous {cf. Avestan pairi-daeza, later para-diz then par-des or par-dos, arabized to fer-dos. Tusi means 'from Tus'. In the poet's case, the name Ferdowsi Tusi became a name and a title: The Tusi Poet from Paradise. } )

 

This targets the original concept of ‘paradise,’ the root concept of the Garden of Eden in Levantine religion, Shamballah in Buddhism and Shangri-La in the west, in the upper north east reaches of Tajikistan (and Kyrgyzstan) where there are a series of valleys that run up into the mountains south of the main silk root ( a bit below them … even on a modern satellite map, one with common sense {the most uncommon of human traits } ) one can see what went on by observing the landform.

 

Nearby is the Pamir region, which has the geological landforms as depicted (in symbolic form) in traditional Buddhist paintings of Shambalah. This is also the lost homeland described in the Vedas (the ‘lost ‘ sacred preparation of Soma can be bought as a quick hit draught in any market place in Tajikistan. It is based on ‘Ephedera’ , ephedrine - which might explain some of Indra’s ‘exploits’ – “He of 1000 testicles” … talk about testosterone overload! And mix that with a speed-freak warlord , no wonder the socially generous rulers of ‘Asuras’ had a problem with the 'Devas', the 'Asuras' were known as not only having a physical ‘paradise’ but one of the most progressive, fair and advanced government yet to be seen, one of the reason people flocked to this empire).

 

These people, even before then, when they were one people, where travelling into China long before the date of those mummies. Even much later during the revamping and redefining that ‘Zoroaster’ bought to the old religion, there are Zoroastrian archaeological sites well into China (the P.I.E. people were the first to domesticate the horse). And much further east into China are old Manichean sites as well (which can be seen as a blend of Avestan and various Chinese philosophies and religious practice) .

 

Not much to do with Kung-fu is it?

 

All I can add is that the spread and influence of martial arts, kung-fu or whatever one wants to term it, is a hodge-podge of indigenous development , trade influence and indigenous modifications going back to ......

 

And ‘Europeans’ , Aryans, and others have been going back and forth to China for a long time … it is even possible that there were links in the P.I.E. peoples hypothesised Urheimat of the south east Russian Steppe into Mongolia.

 

Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan and western Chinese Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region:

http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/maps/airyana.htm

 

This page might be helpful too’

http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/maps/index.htm

....

[h.uriahr]

People argue about Buddha like they argue about Jesus

[Nungali]

I have a little more time now, the link i posted above was the first site that had a picture that conveyed immediately that these people were not Chinese. Bear in mind this fellows skin was dried in the desert and he is about 3000 years old a little yellowing of the skin is to be expected, but his hair is naturally red:

 

 

He is referred to as Cherchen Man and Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherchen_Man) describes him this way:

 

 

I have been familiar with these mummies since the early 1990s and have done more research on them in the years since. They are really quite interesting. If I recall correctly the marijuana was found on someone dressed in Shamanic garb whose DNA linked him with India. Otherwise, the rest seemed very Celtic/Nordic in appearance and DNA. Their cloth was in plaids that could have been a modern Tartan, but they are thousands of years old. There are other interesting aspects to their dress also, particularly the women, some of whose hats are tall cones with flat brims, which certainly suggests 'witches'. Here is the Wikipedia link:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarim_mummies

 

This is obviously to early to be a Roman, nor are they really dressed quite right.

Indian and Celtic DNA have a root in P.I.E. DNA, but if it is later differentiated DNA than that is interesting. but ... erggg too off topic

 

Witches ? Huh?

 

what about the origins of the Phrygian cap, especially the early forms of Mithras, pre-Roman and Greek in the form of Mitra , one of the original ‘Yazatas’ (angels or graceful emenations) of the Zoroastrian Ahura Mazda who … damn! Too off topic …

 

Edit " forgot to add that there are stories that the 'Older Masters' that influenced Tibet came from the West, in Iran that they came from the east.

 

other stories and theories that monotheism originated from Zoroastrianism via proto P.I.E. religion via PIE migration from Russia bringing Siberian shamanism (to where monotheism is 'quantum' tracked). Also their could be links to this with Bonn of Tibetan Shamanism and it might all link back to Mongolia ... nice little feedback loop for the Chinese ... and actually links further back to the Gobi Desert ... which wasn't always a desert ( hint hint)

Edited October 20, 2013 by Nungali

[Protector]

Kalaripayattu has yoga like Kung fu has qi gong

Monks wouldn't want to fight without a spiritual side to the art, without it it just becomes violence

[Nungali]

" Monks wouldn't want to fight without a spiritual side to the art, without it it just becomes violence "

 

Without it , it does not become justified violence

Edited October 20, 2013 by Nungali

[Nungali]

Here is how you adapt spirituality to protect land, crops and people without 'justified violence'.

 

Westerner : "But surely you must have other exceptions of when you are allowed to kill, what if invades come and try to steal your food, women and children?'

 

Islander; "We have a secret place we go to and hide that I cant even tell you about, some men stay."

 

Westerner; " Ah! The warriors?"

 

Islander; "We have no warriors, they are spirit men. When the war canoes came, the last ones, a very long time ago , we leave some food and water on the beach, behind the beach on the way to the village is the ancestor ground, if they can get through that and get near the village then, the spirit men have all sorts of tricks hidden around, things appear and disappear, strange shapes and noises, and at night it works even better as the war canoes prefer to come at night . They usually just run away.

 

"Sometimes for fun , we do that at night time to make the children laugh."

[三江源]

.

Edited July 25, 2014 by cat

[SonOfTheGods]

Throw all the mainstream taught history curriculum in the garbage

 

science too

[Brian]

I have a little more time now, the link i posted above was the first site that had a picture that conveyed immediately that these people were not Chinese. Bear in mind this fellows skin was dried in the desert and he is about 3000 years old a little yellowing of the skin is to be expected, but his hair is naturally red:

 

 

He is referred to as Cherchen Man and Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherchen_Man) describes him this way:

 

 

 

I have been familiar with these mummies since the early 1990s and have done more research on them in the years since. They are really quite interesting. If I recall correctly the marijuana was found on someone dressed in Shamanic garb whose DNA linked him with India. Otherwise, the rest seemed very Celtic/Nordic in appearance and DNA. Their cloth was in plaids that could have been a modern Tartan, but they are thousands of years old. There are other interesting aspects to their dress also, particularly the women, some of whose hats are tall cones with flat brims, which certainly suggests 'witches'. Here is the Wikipedia link:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarim_mummies

 

This is obviously to early to be a Roman, nor are they really dressed quite right.

 

People of the Pacific Northwest described similar visitors.

[xor]

I am a strong advocate that Martial arts started in Africa

.

 

Interesting. Got any good sources? Could be good topic for a new thread, I for one am interested in what we could learn from there.

[Nungali]

I was having a poke at the view that all Martial Arts in China came from India.

 

Humans are supposed to have originated in Africa. I believe human Martial Arts started with humans.

 

Later, specific styles may have migrated into other areas and influenced the forms there. The history of battle and war is a pretty long one ... especially tribal warfare . people learnt from the processes of invasion and defence as well.

 

The cross-cultural influence in Martial Arts may have been going on long ago between China and India, before Buddhism. The time I am talking about above is before the Vedas. 'European looking' people were established in empire, in position with access to China and possibly Tibet. (One needs to remember that Persians (the western moving P.I.E. descendants ) were quite varied, some with light skin and hair , brown and green eyes ... it wasn't until after conquest and invasion of Arabs that many Persians or Iranians took on a their modern appearance.)

[Nungali]

http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/images/aryans/devaMahishasuraBattle.jpg

 

Here is a face off after the Indo-Europeans split , (after that we have very distinctive separation of cultures and locations; Indian through the Hindu Kush into India and the others fanning outwards and eventually establishing the first Persian Empire in the west)

 

Armies were obviously well established even before this time. These examples don't show a make shift skirmish.

 

However I know of no P.I.E. peoples war with China . I wouldn't want to take an army like that along the silk Route !

Edited October 21, 2013 by Nungali

[altiora]

This claim is as ridiculous as claiming that african tribes invented dancing or that germanic tribes invented sword fighting!

It's much more likely that several things were invented simultaneously and independantly from each other in different areas of the world!

I agree. This is another instance of what I describe as Vedic fundamentalism, the proponents of which claim that India is the source of all and everything great.

[Wells]

I agree. This is another instance of what I describe as Vedic fundamentalism, the proponents of which claim that India is the source of all and everything great.

But wait a minute!!! Even the German Nazi Master Race, the Aryans originate in India!!!

The proof is that the Nazi "Reichsflugscheiben"-UFO's were simply rebuild Vimanas from the old Indian Gods/ Alien Masters!!! The knowledge how to rebuild them was channeled from the Aliens from their home planet in the Aldebaran star system telepathically over the female mediums of the "Vril Gesellschaft" to their descendants, the Nazis!!!

So it has to be true: India is the single source of everything that's great on earth!!!

 

<- Indian Gods and their Vimanas

 

^ Hitler (after WWII and the death of his clone in the Berlin Fuhrer Bunker) with a "Reichsflugscheibe" in his antarctic Nazi Base "Neuschwabenland"!

 

Therefore some "aliens" look like Germans and speak in German:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_flyingobjects55.htm

Edited October 21, 2013 by Dorian Black

[SonOfTheGods]

But wait a minute!!! Even the German Nazi Master Race, the Aryans originate in India!!!

The proof is that the Nazi "Reichsflugscheiben"-UFO's were simply rebuild Vimanas from the old Indian Gods/ Alien Masters!!! The knowledge how to rebuild them was channeled from the Aliens from their home planet in the Aldebaran star system telepathically over the female mediums of the "Vril Gesellschaft" to their descendants, the Nazis!!!

So it has to be true: India is the single source of everything that's great on earth!!!

 

<- Indian Gods and their Vimanas

 

^ Hitler (after WWII and the death of his clone in the Berlin Fuhrer Bunker) with a "Reichsflugscheibe" in his antarctic Nazi Base "Neuschwabenland"!

 

Therefore some "aliens" look like Germans and speak in German:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_flyingobjects55.htm

 

you're confusing India with the Hollow Earth