Georgia shows off skull thought to rewrite human evolution

[xor]

"

Georgia shows off skull thought to rewrite human evolution (Update)

 

 

Georgian scientists on Friday presented a 1.8 million-year-old skull discovered in the Caucasus nation that researchers say could force a re-evaluation of current theories of human evolution.

The skull—unearthed in the medieval town of Dmanisi some 100 kilometres (62 miles) southwest of the capital Tbilisi—is the first completely preserved skull found from that period.

Along with four other skull samples uncovered at the site, it appears to show that early man was a single species with a wide range of looks rather than several distinct species.

"Today in this skull—and the other Dmanisi samples—we see all the features lumped together in one group that we previously thought identified different groups," David Lordkipanidze, Georgia's national museum director, told AFP after a presentation in Tbilisi on Friday.

"

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Thoughts?

[SonOfTheGods]

A biggggggggggggg piece of the pie isn't revealed in the equation

[thelerner]

human-oid. It shows a brain not much bigger then an ape, according to the article. Homo, but not homo sapien.

[zanshin]

I thought they decided brain structure was more important than size since homo florensesis (?sp) had fire and used tool. Parrots have relatively small brains, but high among animals for intelligence.

[Nungali]

 

Georgia shows off skull thought to rewrite human evolution (Update)

 

 

Georgian scientists on Friday presented a 1.8 million-year-old skull discovered in the Caucasus nation that researchers say could force a re-evaluation of current theories of human evolution.

The skull—unearthed in the medieval town of Dmanisi some 100 kilometres (62 miles) southwest of the capital Tbilisi—is the first completely preserved skull found from that period.

Along with four other skull samples uncovered at the site, it appears to show that early man was a single species with a wide range of looks rather than several distinct species.

"Today in this skull—and the other Dmanisi samples—we see all the features lumped together in one group that we previously thought identified different groups," David Lordkipanidze, Georgia's national museum director, told AFP after a presentation in Tbilisi on Friday.

"

...

Thoughts?

 

Interesting.

 

One view is variations of types OF species; the other view is variation IN types OF ONE species.

 

It is far from Homo sapiens ... yet IMO Homo sapiens exhibit variations in types that can appear as variations in species.

 

I did some Anthropology at Sydney Uni. Even waaaay back then the dominant idea was variation OF different species.

 

I presented a different case, saying that examples put forward of different species could just be types of A species with a large variation. To demonstrate this I took a range of skull profile outlines with the supposed facial profile drawn over them and some related classic examples of artistic reconstructions.

 

And swapped them around (hee he), most of the swapped profiles were not detected. In the artistic reconstructions I pointed out that an early dated ‘primitive’ skull mock up was depicted in rough and dirty clothes , had big floppy earlobes (earlobes constructed from putting together cranial fragments, jawbone sections and some teeth ?) a dull facial expression and eyes. The Cro-Magnon skull make up was like a Norse God … peering out to the horizon, proud pose, looking good enough to marry your daughter. What gives?

 

Then I showed a ‘primitive’ skull outline … quiet weird actually, big protruding jaw, very large brow, lumpy head, with a facial profile of a Neanderthal. When I was asked what the point of that was I then showed that the ‘primitive’ profile was actually based on a profile photograph of my current work supervisor’s head (he was a weird looking guy!).

 

I backed it up with some Anthropologist’s opinion that if one dressed up a Neanderthal in a suit and gave them a shave and haircut and put them on a busy bus no one would notice.

 

Anyway, it didn’t go down very good, hardly got any marks.

 

But later that view gained ground. The article seems swayed to that opinion, the bulk of it is variation within A species … the second view that comes in at the end is why can’t it be all different species? There are some weird ‘one-offs’ out there too, even today. The field isn’t immune from controversy and fakes either.

 

A similar battle seems underway in Australian anthropology; except it is on a different scale but it shows an inverse development as well. The scale is variation within species type. The type is Homo sapiens and, specifically the Australian Aboriginals.

 

Basically, for many valid reasons, and since the beginning of the anthropological study of the Australian Aboriginals, many types were classified, documented researched and analysed. There was considered a wide range of different types. Now, the post-modernist curriculum demands the theory view change to all one type, but with great variation.

 

Years of research and theory and valid anthropological studies and researchers are not being considered as they are considered ‘old-fashioned’ … and dare I say it, ‘politically incorrect’.

 

Some post-modernist ‘theorist’ looks at different skulls and declare; they look pretty much the same to me. Before we know it they are saying there were no north-east coastal rainforest ‘pygmy aboriginals’; the old photos don’t give the right view point and are deceptive; their height is reckoned by measurement related to near-by palm leaves on their hut roof and they can have different lengths … well what about that anthropologist looming over them in the other photo? Oh, there are only a few of them … probably just a small family ???

 

There IS NO Negrito !

 

Outrageous!

 

Especially since then I have actually met one of them … a lovely chap, he was in a rock band! We talked about it and he was of course outraged that his people had been classified as non-existent. He was compliant to examination (he offered it actually, “Go on bro’ check me out.”) He wasn’t just a light built guy, he was sooo small, the skeletal structure as well, but quiet well-muscled and proportioned.

 

That’s what they are teaching in education programmes nowadays and such is the world of ‘Anthropology’ one might encounter if they enrol in certain courses

.

I know what is behind it, but I have no idea about the political motivations within palaeontology though.

 

 

Pygmy family next to palm leave hut;

http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/images/Untitled2.jpg

 

Pygmy family next to anthropologist;

http://archive.4chon.net/new/2898297/thumb_1367853578241.png

Edited October 19, 2013 by Nungali

[Nungali]

A biggggggggggggg piece of the pie isn't revealed in the equation

There was an equation in there ???

 

And damn! I missed the pie too.

[Nungali]

human-oid. It shows a brain not much bigger then an ape, according to the article. Homo, but not homo sapien.

 

What on earth (on EARTH now ) is a human - oid ? I guess you mean human like? But not human (homo sapiens).

 

I would have said homo - nid.

 

The difference?

 

hominid

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hominidae

 

humanoid

http://www.humanoid.nl/

[thelerner]

What on earth (on EARTH now ) is a human - oid ? I guess you mean human like? But not human (homo sapiens).

I'll meet you half way and use the word human - ish.

 

 

 

hmnn, looks like they had some old coffee beans found near them,

maybe they should be called human - ista (or homo coffean) meaning java drinking humanoids. Which in turn spurred ever larger brains in the search for better grounds and brewing techniques.

[Nungali]

What a mess that Nungali made of that article ... ... he must have done it late at night,

 

Surprised I didn't get down here and find :What on earth are YOU talking about

 

I had to re-edit ...NOW it makes better sense.

[Nungali]

I'll meet you half way and use the word human - ish.

 

 

 

hmnn, looks like they had some old coffee beans found near them,

maybe they should be called human - ista (or homo coffean) meaning java drinking humanoids. Which in turn spurred ever larger brains in the search for better grounds and brewing techniques.

 

Their brains and minds seem bigger than ours ... I believe their intelligence was ... and the ones I meet today still seem to have it. - Poor old white fellas !

 

 

Well, there ARE smaller human-ish little guys that leave footprints in the sand around the fire in my teachers Gunya but these little people don't fit into an Anthropological discussion ... more of a Shamanic one.

 

 

Hominids, I use in the restricted sense of the term … in that 'we' are the only hominids left ... there used to be heaps of hominid species.

 

 

Your mention of coffee and Java is interesting as these ..('hold on to your hats ... I am about to go all non post-modernist / 'racist' here ) Negrito types of Australoid are the same type as (but a type variation of) the Tasmanian Aboriginal, Negrito people of New Guinea and their 'relatives' are throughout south east Asia including Java.

 

 

Another type of Australian ( with a larger range of variation within the type - similar to the large range the Caucasian exhibits i.e. some can be blonde and have green eyes {stunningly beautiful people IMO } ) has roots going back up through the to the north west of Australia (but their homeland is now under the Arafura Sea on a large plane that was covered with sea when the last ice age ended) across the then narrow divide into south east Asia, particularly the Andaman Islands (which up until about 1950 white people didn't set foot on ... a cultural preserve ... and also relating to the fact that when some Anthropologists tried to land there in a boat one got a bow-fired spear through his chest ... now it’s covered in resorts ), a tiny pocket in India and slightly larger one in Sri Lanka. They appear to have been settled in India for some time - the original Australoid homeland, and perhaps were driven out or moved out due to Mongoloid expansion from the north and east and Pre Proto-Indo-European (PIE) expansion in from the north West ( through the Hindu Kush) or around the coast from the west (at the time of the first phase expansion of the pre PIE people, when they came into the Nile Valley (the Ancient Egyptians were not Africans).

 

 

There is another type that has very 'black' Indigo coloured skin. Of course since these waves of migrations into Australia since the end of the ice age (and possibly after around 6000 BC when the dingo first appears in the fossil record ... whose closest relative is the wild dog of India ... but that is a bit of an unexplained mystery how Indian Australoids got here around 6000 BC) there has been much cross breeding and many types generated ( there used to be at least 600 different cultural / language groups).

 

 

There are two types of desert people, one came from the north west across the 'top end', all the way around, but not Tasmania later than that, around the bottom and up into the dessert, following the rivers. The other desert people, came looong ago straight in from the north west down into the desert.

 

 

Of course, they think 'we' are nuts! "Look at that fellah coming by, he's an inland desert man ... now that's black! He nearly purple ... strong juju that fellah ... he makes ME look white ... don't look at him as he passes." < eyes down … he passes … eyes up> “and white fellas say we are all one Aboriginie ?” <shakes his head>

 

 

THEY know they are not all one people. They know they are one people spiritually, in the ‘dreaming jig-saw puzzle of Australian native spirituality’ (my term, it isn’t a puzzle for them ), they are all one people in a modern social/political context and hence lies the issue – political intrusion into Anthropology.

 

 

Uncle Link, a Budjalung ( central east coast) Elder told me this story; There was a big gathering at Uluru in the heartland, people came from all over, including OS (native American, Inuit, Maori, etc). The local Elders organised things when they got there. One of the first things they did was put people in groups. Many where surprised that they made several different groups of people within the Australian Aboriginals. Some people were a bit upset as all the people that came in the bus with Uncle Link thought they would be together. He got moved into a group of people, some he knew where his relatives at Uluru but some he didn’t recognise, they examined him and told him who his parents and grandparents where, even though they hadn’t met him before … then they sub-grouped that group … people got to know each other and link up with previously unknown distant relatives after they talked and compared linage (and song-lines) etc. That was the point of the exercise.

 

But link said one of the boys protested, he was being put in with a group of ‘strangers’ , the elders said, no, that is where you belong, the boy said, no, you made a mistake, you don’t understand, I am not Aboriginal, I am with Billy, over there, I am his mate from school, I just came with him for the trip … I am not Aboriginal, I am Indian. The Elders say, that’s right and this is where you belong. Uncle Link, who knows nothing of Anthropology said he thought the Elders had made a mistake, but when he looked closely he realised the boy looked EXACTLY like some of the Australian Aboriginals in that group, Some elders from that group sat the boy down and had a talk with him.

 

I would have liked to have heard THAT conversation!

[thelerner]

.. ARE smaller human-ish little guys that leave footprints in the sand around the fire in my teachers Gunya but these little people don't fit into an Anthropological discussion ... more of a Shamanic one.

 

Footprints..

in the sand.

in our DNA.

our language.

souls too?

[Taomeow]

human-oid. It shows a brain not much bigger then an ape, according to the article. Homo, but not homo sapien.

 

Dolphins have brains that weigh nearly a pound more than ours. That's not the whole story. Each of their hemispheres is a fully functional brain onto itself, so they can use one half for a full range of functions and let the other half sleep -- which results in zero need of sleep for the whole animal, zero unconscious states, or perhaps better than that -- they might exist in our world AND in dreamtime simultaneously at all times. It's not just the size, it's the efficiency of the brain -- ours is modest on that scale. Very.

 

Absolute size of the brain is an indicator of nothing much, but the relative brain to body size ratio of a species matters -- not in comparison of intelligence with any other species but in terms of longevity. Our ratios and elephants' are as close as our lifespans. It's been calculated that the rule applies to all species with a CNS -- the greater the size of the brain in relation to body weight, the longer they live. No such connection between the absolute brain size and the species' intelligence has ever been possible to make.

 

The only reason we believe there's a direct connection between intelligence and brain size is completely unscientific. To wit, we have just enough brains to have figured out that if we agree (with no evidence) to use the size of the brain as an indicator, it's something that makes us look good. Moreover, it provides a make-believe-scientific justification for our behavior, no matter what this behavior is like species-wide. We simply apply circular logic in reality, not science. We are smart, that's why we do things we do. We do things we do, and it proves we are smart.

 

If we use almost any other criterion than brain size, we don't look that smart at all. Oh, of course there's things we build, rebuild, demolish and pave over, there's that. We've hinged all our species' pride and all our accomplishments on the opposable thumb. I don't think being able to use it without being able to foresee the outcome of using it is all that intelligent after all.

[Nungali]

Footprints..

in the sand.

in our DNA.

our language.

souls too?

I believe so ...

[silent thunder]

Footprints..

in the sand.

in our DNA.

our language.

souls too?

 

 

I believe so ...

 

 

agreed...

[Tung]

Two researchers in Australia are writing about the old history that they learned from the Aborigines.

 

 

Forgotten Origin
Steven and Evan Strong's new theory of human civilisation

 

http://forgottenorigin.com/our-theory

 

 

 

Our claim is supported by genes, mtDNA, blood and many experts, that Aboriginal people set sail from Australia, not to, 50,000 years ago.

[Brian]

404 - page not found

 

[Apech]

404 - page not found

 

 

Go there and click on 'our theory' ...

[Brian]

http://forgottenorigin.com/our-theory

 

Original link had a space at the end...

 

[hod]

Thanks for the link to the discovery in Ecuador.

 

I am an avid researcher in an ancient race of large human like beings who created a vast culture that spread across the world and seemed to predate our known civilizations.

 

The one thing that makes interest in such ideas so hard though is strongly highlighted in these two Australian researchers who are trying to do the a documentary on the giant's pyramid. It seems like everyone doing the major research, that needs to be done for the subject to be taken seriously shoots themselves in the foot by tying their religious or mystical beliefs to this ancient race instead of just doing the scientific method on it without any bias and trying to just put the facts out there.

 

Case in point for these two Aussies. Below is an exert from the summy of one of their books.

 

How is it that we know so much? Long before the events of 2011 and 2012 there had already been connections between us and UFO´s and non-human beings, even an event involving the past life recall of having been on a ship that arrived to Earth on a mission to help the resident population long, long ago. From 2001 until present we have voyaged through a flow of supernormal events and psychic revelation that culminated in our understanding and remembering having been members of the crew of that Pleiadian mission. The two of us came to understand that we were twin-flames, star-seeds and possibly walk-ins, brought back together in this life to give the planet back the lost history of the ancient aliens. The story engraved on rock at Kariong was in fact our own story, we were there and had lived through the events recorded for posterity. It is now time for us to share the full understanding that we have recovered, thanks in part to our star Pleiadian family, of the direct blood relationship between the star heroes and the people of this world.

 

So, as much as I believe that they did find a pyramid that was possibly constructed by an ancient race of giants - no one else in the serious scientific world will, because they also believe that it proves or is part of the above theory.

 

Just my frustrations revolving around that fact that I do truly believe in this ancient race and it pains me that there isn't one group of people doing real scientific enquirers into it that will every be recognized by the established scientific community. And as a result of all of these people trying to tie this ancient race into their "out-there" theories, anyone who ever preform the scientific method on the subject is going to have deal with people discounting it immediately because of all of this previous pseudo-science..

[Marblehead]

I know what is behind it, but I have no idea about the political motivations within palaeontology though.

 

I think the study is still relatively clean but it is the usage of the study data that becomes dirtied. But this is true with most studies. We present only the data that agrees with our agenda.

[Nungali]

I think the study is still relatively clean but it is the usage of the study data that becomes dirtied. But this is true with most studies. We present only the data that agrees with our agenda.

Damn! pressed unlike instead of quote again ! Do people get notified of unlikes as they do likes?

 

I pressed quote (eventually) as I agree with your observation re 'usage'. 'Most studies' might benefit by forming an 'agenda' after the data is analysed

[Nungali]

Two researchers in Australia are writing about the old history that they learned from the Aborigines.

 

 

Forgotten Origin

Steven and Evan Strong's new theory of human civilisation

 

http://forgottenorigin.com/our-theory

I am sorry if any one is offended by my ‘materialism’ but that article is rubbish IMO (also, read some of the objections posted under that theory on the site, some are quiet valid) Those guys credentials ???? I happen to personally know and are friends with and get taught by Bundjulung Elders.

 

These guys do not understand the indigenous mindset and are interpreting things LITERALLY.

 

Westerners (and some ‘educated’ indigenous … and anyone that has been ‘infected’ by the mindset) have lost part of their mind (i.e. view / observation mode) , a basic 3 model (at least) is required ; westerners sacrificed a very important 3^rd perspective when we adopted the dualistic outlook (which is either / or …or, if one likes, ‘digital’).

 

All of this (giants, origins etc.) can be understood if one can again find this 3^rd mindset. Which cant be found in a dualistic framework.

 

Apparently this guy’s advice is one of the opinions behind the infiltration of ‘post-modernist’ curriculums in programs to educate whites about Aboriginals in Oz that I was bitching about earlier.

 

The ‘Daimonic Reality’ which breaks into the world of dualism cannot be interpreted with one of the views of dualism (ie. It is a concrete real manifestation OR it is just a myth / story / imagination … it is actually part of both but neither of each).

 

‘Us westerners’ used to have this 3^rd ‘Psychic Reality’ view, but the 17^th century empiricism of Francis Bacon seemed to confirm Aristotle’s disdain for Plato’s ‘worthless spirituality’ . The philosophy of Rene Descartes ‘helped’ as well. We come into the modern world with a view of Mind (subject) and Extension (object).

 

The Catholic Church (of course) had a good go at this as well; in the council of 869, they affirmed dogmatically that man was composed of two parts; body and spirit. The third component soul was incorporated vaguely under spirit … lumping it together so the essential distinction is now lost (ask ‘average anyone’ to describe the difference between the two). It is ‘soul’ (Gk; psyche, Lat; anima ) that is an intermediate world that partakes of the other two, not a world that is either of the other two; it is a world ‘between’ the other two that can partake of both). Jung seems to have been grasping towards it in his concept of ‘Psychic Reality’ (perhaps because he encountered it directly).

To interpret the indigenous ‘reality’ in a western dualism (i.e. this did really happen physically … or it didn’t) and convey that to dualists is a great disservice to the Indigenous anywhere.

 

The indigenous see it different and will affirm the reality of things ( Auntie B…. will get cranky if you dispute that the first man came out of that waterhole RIGHT THERE <points to it> ) yet she wont get cranky about another ‘dreamtime’ story that is different. (Confused The same seems to applies in Egyptology … for clarity I suggest the work of Rosemary Clarke … I know this applies to Aboriginality as I asked one of the most senior Bundjalung elders (the same the author of that article puts up for his own personal ‘cred’) and he said it is so in their culture … that is what ‘song lines’ are all about. *

 

Just because little people left footprints around the fire last night does not prove their mundane physical appearance … although it proves their ‘ reality’, just as the fact that I can’t catch a little man at night in a box and show him to you the next day does not disprove his ‘un reality’.

 

Tracks in the sand …. Tracks in our DNA … like flies at times … can’t see them … but can see where they have been.

*Perhaps I can explain how variant 'myths' can be' true' to the dualistic mind with this quote;

 

“ … thus we gather up all the threads of human passion and interest, and weave them into an harmonious tapestry, subtly and diligently with great art, that our Order may seem an ornament even to the Stars that are in the Heavens at Night. In our rainbow-coloured texture we set forth the glory of the whole Universe— See thou to it, brother Magician, that thine own thread be strong, and pure, and of a colour brilliant in itself, yet ready to mingle in all beauty with those of thy brethren! “

Edited October 23, 2013 by Nungali

[Marblehead]

Damn! pressed unlike instead of quote again ! Do people get notified of unlikes as they do likes?

 

I pressed quote (eventually) as I agree with your observation re 'usage'. 'Most studies' might benefit by forming an 'agenda' after the data is analysed

Hehehe. No, "unlikes" don't count for squat. They did initially but that didn't work out so the "unlike" function was disabled. Now it is either like it or keep your mouth shut. Hehehe.

 

And yes, I agree that once the data is collected and analyzed there would be no reason why anyone couldn't use it in support of an agenda.

[Marblehead]

The third component soul was incorporated vaguely under spirit … lumping it together so the essential distinction is now lost (ask ‘average anyone’ to describe the difference between the two).

I hold to the concept of "body, soul, and spirit" but that is a result of my thoughts within Taoism.

[Nungali]

I hold to the concept of "body, soul, and spirit" but that is a result of my thoughts within Taoism.

Taoism, in essence, has not been infected. It understands the 3 views.

 

I have come to the conclusion that these two guys Steven and Evan Strong are either reference / research fudging, lying, would be money makers with books to appease new age alternoconspiracist wackos ... or are insane.