Okinawan Kiko Exercises

[Karateka]

Hi, this is my first post on the forum so...hello!

I wanted to know if there were any 'Bums who had much knowledge or interest in the failry hazy and poorly-documented connections between Chinese body-systems of conditioning, particulalry internal arts like Qigong - and the introduction of Chuan'Fa into the RyuKyu islands - i presume that internal and external body conditioning practices went hand in hand. Tradition has it that Karate grew from a blending of "indiginous" Okinawan fighting arts with Kenpo, the product of course was an "empty-handed" technique capable of fighting against armed Chinese and then later Japanese rulers. Later this was brought famously to the mainland of Japan by Gichin Funakoshi, which is well documented. It is also documented (how truthfully?) by such as Patrick McCarthy that several of the old Okinawan Karate school Sensei's owned copies of the "Bubishi", of Chinese origin, which is an esoteric text documenting many aspects of vital point striking, incorporation of daily rhythms into fighting techniques, and herbal medicines as well as images of stances/techniques. The main Karate literature focuses on hard physical conditioning of the body, but there is an emphasis on breath control and Ki flow, however if i remember my "Tai Chi Classics" and Nei Gong correctly then force power is generated through storing and directing "Jing". Now i'm getting onto shaky ground, as there seems to be very little easily accessible material on "Kiko" exercises - a form of Qigong it seems. I was very interested to know if anyone knows of any decent source material regarding this Japanese variant of Qigong. I have learned and use several forms of Chinese Qigong in my Tai-Chi practice, but i wanted to compare/contrast the Karate variants to see how that varied from the "softer" martial verions. Presumably there were more fixed/lower stance/strengthening variations rather than the more circular softer movements?

I found this interesting blog, but it's hardly what you could call source material:

http://ryukyuma.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/okinawan-kiko.html

Any guidance in this area would be very helpful.

[Nungali]

The article linked seems fairly comprehensive. I know little about it. I trained in Matsamura Seito Shorin- Ryu. In that tradition a lot of what you seek was hidden . I suppose if one trained in Okinawa and got 'in', it might be different The last great teacher of that line who died a few years back ; Koshi Nishihira would have been of the 'springy' type explained in that article. He used the term 'like a spring' a lot. Also he could heal training injuries with a hands on thing and when he did this his palms got very hot.

 

Nowadays and with other styles it isn't so secret. But I would assume it has an origin in China as a lot of Okinawan stuff came from China. It was virtually a province of China and some times. A lot of the Okinawans went and trained at the ... Fukkien (is it ?) temple in China. There are also some interesting kata that are purported to come directly from Chinese individuals who came to Okinawa ; Kusanku , also the name of a visiting Chinese martial expert; an 'envoy' , Chinto, also the name of a pirate shipwrecked in Okinawa.

 

But what you are asking about I think is encapsulated in Sanshin Kata .... not part of the style I did, so we did little of it.

[Karateka]

Ok thanks, i wondered if there were any writings on breath or meditation/ controlling ki in said kata, or are they hidden in kata? I think i need to study the breathing patterns in kata and extrapolate from what i know of tai chi... I don't really think i'm gonna meet an okinawan sensei who can transmit secret techniques anytime soon!

[xor]

Taken from the article linked in the OP:

 

 

I was going to say the leg kicks were brutal in the demo from the article but the punches to the back of the head and kidneys, ballpunching... damn.

Edited October 23, 2013 by xor

[Karateka]

iron shirt, and iron balls. So am i right in thinking that this "Kiko" is more a form of body-conditioning, with appropriate stance/balance and muscular control to sustain blows... rather than body work that controls power in offensive moves like punches and kicks?

[Nungali]

probably both ... but I guess ... as the system I learnt in I read described (by an 'outsider' ) as "They are masters of 'tai-sabaki' (or something like that) ... I looked it up and got a surprise ... basically it means to evade ... the opposite of being hard and solid and absorbing the force of a srtike with the body or a blocking technique.

 

... I always thought first principle was NOT to be where the strike is landing ???

 

Much of Okinawan martial arts that passed to Japan is 'temple style / ultimately sacrificial / defend the king' stuff and the rarer style (the one I did) is 'family tradition style (Seito) / protect your parents and your own life / self defence style. It is quiet different from the other style and contains lots of attacks to nerve centres, eyes, groin, throat, etc, combined with evade and strike (more of a stinging / whipping movement) to weaken/distract/break 'ki stream' for the application of lock/takedown/control and THEN deliver the 'killer blow'.

 

(And incidentally it makes much more sense of some weird karate moves that seem nonsense and unexplained until one understand the variant 'Bunkai'. And I have never had to worry about an opponent with ' iron EYEballs' - once I brushed the eyes of a visiting instructor from another style ever so lightly with the back of my fingers ... not even a flick of my nails and he grabbed his face and turned and bent over presenting me with a wonderfully exposed right kidney ... most people I trained with like that (and it was in slo mo to demo a bunkai ) would turn the head or at least tightly close the eyes ... he though it was a little backhand girlslap to the face and he would grin and toughly absorb it. )

 

 

However ... whatever ... I wont go on about what I learnt as it seems the opposite of what you seek

Edited October 24, 2013 by Nungali

[Karateka]

Maybe not... i'm just exploring the inner aspects of karate, and how they connect with inner Chinese practices. It seems what i am after may well be in "the two books written by Dharuma". Quoting from Tetsuhiro Hokama's "History and Traditions of Okinawan Karate":

 

After Dharuma's death, while repairs were being made to the temple a box containing two books - Ekkinkyo and Senzuikyo were discovered.

...They are, like their founder, heavily shrouded in mystery. Ekkinkyo (in Chinese Yin Jing Jing translated - muscle change classic), focuses on corporal development. Senzuikyo (Xi Sui Jing or muscle washing classic)...

...The former emphasises physical exercise to strengthen the body, and the latter, focuses on internal health using a prescribed method of breathing.

...numerous martial arts masters contend the Ekkinkyo was later introduced to the people of the Ryukyus as 'Shorinji Kenpo' or 'Chinese Kenpo'. Ekkinkyo was synthesised with native self-defence forms to produce Okinawan Ti.

Of course this pseudo-history is disputed, and the connection with buddhist practices and the link to pranayama therefore may be erroneous. Some are of the opinion that karate was instead formed by Shorin-ryu and Shorei-ryu brought from China to Okinawa (and mixed with indiginous Okinawan self-defence). It could be said that it it is impossible to claim true precedence as many arts may be ancient and undocumented and have travelled in several ways across asia, or even to have been developed independently, though a Yogic connection seems entirely possible.

Now the Senzuikyo certainly sounds like Qigong, and Tetsuhiro Hokama's book claims to have excerpts from a book called Ekkinkyogi - The Teachings of Ekkinkyo by 'karate expert and scholar' Sato Kinbe, who is alleged to have obtained copies of the two books (of Dharuma). I have ordered a copy of Tetsuhiro Hokama's book, but this is a book quoting a book, quoting a book by a mythical figure. Getting on very shaky ground here!!!

Does anyone know of any copies of "Dharuma's two books"?

Edited October 24, 2013 by Karateka

[xor]

I think if you started a new thread about specific books/techniques by their Chinese names(like 易筋經 / Yijinjing) or in English like Marrow Washing it might draw more answers. Okinawan Kiko is something I think rather few people know about.

Edited October 24, 2013 by xor

[Karateka]

Ok from Wikipedia:

 

 

 

Bodhidharma at Shaolin

See also: Patron Saint of Shaolin monastery

Some Chinese accounts describe Bodhidharma as being disturbed by the poor physical shape of the Shaolin monks,^[35] after which he instructed them in techniques to maintain their physical condition as well as teaching meditation.^[35] He is said to have taught a series of external exercises called the Eighteen Arhat Hands (Shi-ba Lohan Shou),^[35] and an internal practice called the Sinew Metamorphosis Classic.^[36] In addition, after his departure from the temple, two manuscripts by Bodhidharma were said to be discovered inside the temple: the Yijin Jing (易筋經 or "Muscle/Tendon Change Classic") and the Xi Sui Jing. Copies and translations of the Yi Jin Jing survive to the modern day. The Xi Sui Jing has been lost.^[37]

[Karateka]

yeah, i think i'm stumbling heavily on the variable romanisation of chinese names here. thanks for the advice!

[Karateka]

http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php?topic=11967.0

The first post in this link suggests that the Yin Jin Jing "involves mostly hitting oneself with large pieces of wood, iron, and steel over the course of many years over the whole body. It also involves stretching and a qigong/martial arts form called the 12 Fists of Da'mo".... that sounds exactly like what is described in the first link i put up and the "Daruma exercises"/Shaolin Iron Shirt Qigong. I think i have most of the answers i need for now, and some studying to do.

[Isimsiz Biri]

I remember watching two documentaries about Okinawan Karate. The Zanshin Kata was practiced such that the practioner withstands to blows on his/her legs, arms, etc. But I assume you are already familiar with that practice.

 

The videos are as follows:

 

 

The Way of the Warrior: Karate, The Way of the Empty Hand (Entire Video)

 

 

 

Samurai Spirit Karate

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLibKL7OzDY

Edited October 26, 2013 by Isimsiz Biri

[Karateka]

Thanks, though I think "Zanshin" refers to the mental state after a move, or before a move - a "relaxed alertness" - meaning that focussing on winning or a particular technique will lead to over-attachment, loss of total awareness and failure, it is a fusion of mind and body.

[Isimsiz Biri]

I may be wrong in the name, I have watched them some time ago. I am referring to a very special kata with very heavy breathing in and out and tensing the muscles. Please correct me with the correct name of the kata.

 

P.S. It is Sanchin Kata. I apologize for the confusion.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanchin

Edited October 25, 2013 by Isimsiz Biri

[xor]

 

Found this searching for sanchin kata... not my cup of tea but looks effective.

Edited October 25, 2013 by xor

[Isimsiz Biri]

Found this searching for sanchin kata... not my cup of tea but looks effective.

 

I did not practice karate, but I watched and heard that it is effective.

[Karateka]

Sanchin Kata is one of the main two Kata of Goju-Ryo Okinawan Karate, the other being Tensho... which does seem to correspond with what i have read elsewhere about there being two main techniques, outer/hard - body conditioning, and inner/soft... and there is strong emphasis on Ki and breathing techniques in Goju-Ryo Karate.

There looks to be an interesting quote in the blurb for "The Essence of Gojo-Ryu Vol.1" by Barrett and Lever referring to Sanchin Qigon and San Tanden (The 3 Tanden = tan-tien)

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Essence-Goju-Ryu-Vol/dp/1447669282/ref=sr_1_20?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1382701920&sr=1-20&keywords=goju+ryu

This book represents many years of combined research into the fascinating art of Goju Ryu Karate-Do, and is a joint work by Richard Barrett and Garry Lever concerning the relationship between Junbi Undo, Hojo Undo and Sanchin. Covering the history, correct practise,advanced Qigong and esoteric studies within these traditions, this work is aimed directly at the intermediate or advanced practitioner seeking to add greater depth to their understanding of these areas, and how to effectively apply them to the advanced classical kata of Goju Ryu. Topics include: Junbi Undo theory and practise, The origins of Sanchin, The Go and Ju of Sanchin, Shime application and theory, Go and Ju in relation to the body, Sanchin no Chikara Michi (strength paths of Sanchin), Sanchin Qigong exercises, San Tanden (the 3 tanden), Ancient beliefs which influenced the development of kata. www.gojukenkyukai.blogspot.com

Unfortunately this is out of print, nor is it listed up on ebay or abe-books. Does anyone have a copy?

(I'll post up in the different forum section to ask same question)

[Nungali]

Good luck ... one of the things we have to consider here is the absolute devistation of Okinawan culture, martial arts, rare books and teachers and masters of traditions that resulted from the invasion of Okinawa in WWII.

[Karateka]

Although it is straying off topic... It is no surprise that ancient systems of codes of conduct, social hierarchy, warrior mindset when preserved like fine porcelain from a mediaeval past, and closed to the world when brought back into the industrial age was an anachronism from the past doomed to clash, with a rigid structure too inflexibl to withstand the forces of change needed to co-habit peaceably with the "modern" world. The warrior classes had internalised their budo and this led them to the most amazing bravery of the Kamikazee... not a term of reference that my Grandad would approve of, but of course history is told by the winning side. There is no doubt however that the Japanese imperial expansion into asia did demonstrate as is true for many other examples in history that outsiders were often treated brutally - which considering the mediaeval warrior mindset would have not seemed out of place in mediaeval Europe, but shocked us in the "modern world" and perhaps was facilitated by Industrial strength... But those examples are something to be ashamed of wherever and whenever they arise. yet from this, the Karate of Okinawan schools always seem to come from a perspective of a defensive art, yes karate of course delas with defense and devestating one-kill counter-attacks, but you cannot go half-measures as a peasant against a fully armed samurai with steel as you wouldn't be offered the opportunity! Power can be used for both good and ill, and the responsibility lies within each of us to stick to the way, which is always of truth, honesty, respect, balance and harmony both within ourselves and towards others. I like to see out post-modern age as being one where we have the opportunity to recover the sum total of human learning/experience/history and have a duty to forge that harmony in our brief span on this planet. I've looked at images of Okinawa post-war and cannot truly appreciate the devestation as i have not lived in that kind of age or time, and am hopeful that modern communication is liberating to individuals so that we can prevent single powers, governments, authorities bringing us into such crises, that we can fight the propaganda and spread the truth, so that minorities can never again subvert ordinary people into closed-minded thinking. Peace!

Edited October 26, 2013 by Karateka

[Karateka]

It seems likley that the "eighteen hand movements of Arhat" allegedly transmitted by Bodhidharma/Daruma, said to be that taught from Yi Jin Jing is very similar to the Eight-Strands of Silk Brocade form of Qigong (well the first 8 movements of the 18), and although examination of the moves in Yi Jin Jing are NOT the same as the 8 strands that I know, there is enough similarity to make the assumption that I already know some of what I am asking! It is true that there is a lot of variation from one teacher/tradition to another in the form - forms diversify over time and region... but the breath work and Chi/Jing development are probably consistent - there is more than one way of getting it to work for you.

Here is a description of Kiko exercises/breath work as relevant to Karate:

http://www.so-honbu-dojo-konbo.nl/kiko.htm

http://centralpamartialarts.blogspot.co.uk/2008/02/okinawan-kiko.html

[GreytoWhite]

http://www.plumpub.com/kaimen/2012/style-feeding-crane-kung-fu/

[Karateka]

This is an excellent little article comparing Chi-kung/Qigong to Sanchin Kata:

http://www.otgka.co.uk/uploads/6/6/8/2/6682770/sanchin.pdf

[Isimsiz Biri]

There is a concept called as " to Unify Body and Mind" developed by deceased Aikido Master Koichi Tohei. This is nothing to do with Aikido, do not misunderstand. (Although can be applied to Aikido too) In order to unify body and mind, there are four principles. You may apply one of them at a time to unify your body and mind. This is a very very important concept. After you unify your body and mind, you may do Ki Breath and even Ki Meditation 10-15 minutes per day. It is too lengthy to explain here, so I strongly recommend to purchase following books and read them in the given order as below:

They are very easy to read and apply, and user friendly books. You may purchase used books if you find the new ones expensive.

a- "Ki in Daily Life" (http://www.amazon.com/Ki-Daily-Life-Koichi-Tohei/dp/0870404369)

b- http://www.shinichitohei.com/english/specialki_breathing/index.html

c- http://www.shinshintoitsuaikido.org/english/index.html

d- http://www.shinshintoitsuaikido.org/english/renew/book.html

 

Also books by William Reed

a- "KI: A Practical Guide for Westerners" (http://www.amazon.co...53571071&sr=1-1)
b- "KI --A Road That Anyone Can Walk" (http://www.amazon.co...53571071&sr=1-2)

 

Four Major Ki Principles:

http://www.northsideaikido.com/en/ki-principles

 

Detailed Ki Principles:

http://www.northsideaikido.com/en/21-ki-principles

Edited November 6, 2013 by Isimsiz Biri

[Nungali]

1, Project Ki.

2.Focus on one point.

3.No mind

4. Keep weight underside.

 

You will be immovable

 

Did I get them right? Is this what you mean?

 

Also

1. Not just hands or fingertips or sword ... every pore of the body, and the eyes as well

2. Hara - make it a black hole at the centre of the Universe, everything is attracted to it and falling into it.

3. If you cannot do this ... think only and see only 'clear blue sky'.

4. Underside changes when you move so weight underside moves ... all 'under' surfaces, even the bottom of the ear lobes and the bottom of the top eyelid ... all of it.

 

And Isimsiz Biri will be immovable.

 

Every meeting cut you will drive opponents sword off-centre. Tanto will not find you. Jo will not either, place them back on the Shoman.

 

Clear blue sky - one cut

 

Clear blue sky - another cut.

 

But this is not Okinawan ... see Daityo Ryu

Edited November 6, 2013 by Nungali

[Isimsiz Biri]

1, Project Ki.

2.Focus on one point.

3.No mind

4. Keep weight underside.

 

You will be immovable

 

Did I get them right? Is this what you mean?

 

Also

1. Not just hands or fingertips or sword ... every pore of the body, and the eyes as well

2. Hara - make it a black hole at the centre of the Universe, everything is attracted to it and falling into it.

3. If you cannot do this ... think only and see only 'clear blue sky'.

4. Underside changes when you move so weight underside moves ... all 'under' surfaces, even the bottom of the ear lobes and the bottom of the top eyelid ... all of it.

 

And Isimsiz Biri will be immovable.

 

Every meeting cut you will drive opponents sword off-centre. Tanto will not find you. Jo will not either, place them back on the Shoman.

 

Clear blue sky - one cut

 

Clear blue sky - another cut.

 

But this is not Okinawan ... see Daityo Ryu

 

Sometimes you make completely unnecessary comments. Of course it is not Okinawan. It is not Daito Ryu. It is Ki Aikido. Koichi Tohei did not learn those four principles from his sensei Morihei Ueshiba, rather discovered himself.

 

You rather wrote them in a very strange way although I gave the link.

 

http://www.northsideaikido.com/en/ki-principles

Four basic principles for mind and body unification.

1. Keep One Point: calm and focus the mind at the one point in the lower abdomen.
2. Relax Completely: release all stress from the body.
3. Keep Weight Underside: let the weight of every part of the body settle at its lowest point.
4. Extend Ki: visualise limitless energy radiating from the one point.

You apply one of them at a time. It is enough.