Man lived to the age of 256

[Nungali]

There is one saint in Anatolia said to live a similar long duration. I looked for it in internet but could not find it.

 

Basically, such a long life should be granted by God Almighty before the incarnation of subject person.

Yes ... I believe this is so and it cannot happen with out this ... it just isnt one thing- what you eat, or how you think.

It is many things and what you mention may be first.

 

Also for somehting like this to occur one must consider (and be in the position of) , as the Sufi's say; Right people, right place, right time .... and , perhaps 7 other things ?

Edited October 26, 2013 by Nungali

[Isimsiz Biri]

Yes ... I believe this is so and it cannot happen with out this ... it just isnt one thing- what you eat, or how you think.

It is many things and what you mention may be first.

 

Also for somehting like this to occur one must consider (and be in the position of) , as the Sufi's say; Right people, right place, right time .... and , perhaps 7 other things ?

 

Nungali,

 

You are a good person. I see that you are quoting Idris Shah's words. Now it is more clear for me. Although he had some positive faculties and he introduced Sufism to West, he has not the sufficient mastery to represent Sufism.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idries_Shah

 

For instance, his theory such that there had been a Sufi tradition before Islam is not true at all. Defenders of this theory can not give a name of a single Sufi who had lived before Islam.

 

If you are referring to seven things, you should learn seven stages of Nafs which you mentioned previously that you do not know it.

[BaguaKicksAss]

.

Edited January 12, 2014 by BaguaKicksAss

[Isimsiz Biri]

There was some magic, and some Djinn stuff before the Muslims got there. Though I have to say I'm not a big Shah fan either.

 

I had seen quite the list of various books on magic and so forth from that region, actually in english... think it was on evocationalmagic.com

 

 

I looked at the link you provided. Not my stuff. If you open a thread related with that magic, promise I will not post. Magic is prohibited in Islam due to a very simple reason. The free will of human beings is holy. No one can interfere. If somebody interfere, it is a great sin. For instance, if you make magic to make a married couple get divorced, you violate their free wills.

[9th]

[Isimsiz Biri]

.......

 

Thank you.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Isimsiz Biri

[BaguaKicksAss]

I looked at the link you provided. Not my stuff. If you open a thread related with that magic, promise I will not post. Magic is prohibited in Islam due to a very simple reason. The free will of human beings is holy. No one can interfere. If somebody interfere, it is a great sin. For instance, if you make magic to make a married couple get divorced, you violate their free wills.

 

I was just meaning that one thread on there about mystical works by various Sufi folks... you'd have to do a search.

 

Yeah I have a Muslim magician friend, he calls most magic Haram (sp?) however... he says that he can do any magic as long as it is Allah's will. However it is entirely possible he's fudging a bit there . Also when I was in Egypt, I had a Muslim magician try some magic work on me, it was interesting. (it half worked)

[Isimsiz Biri]

I was just meaning that one thread on there about mystical works by various Sufi folks... you'd have to do a search.

 

Yeah I have a Muslim magician friend, he calls most magic Haram (sp?) however... he says that he can do any magic as long as it is Allah's will. However it is entirely possible he's fudging a bit there . Also when I was in Egypt, I had a Muslim magician try some magic work on me, it was interesting. (it half worked)

 

In Islam, magic is strictly prohibited that means it is haram. Your Muslim magician friend is a toy of Satan. Allah never wants somebody to make magic on one person. Full stop.

 

Your experience in Egypt should be analyzed to understand what level of negative energy you received.

[Rara]

Do you want to live forever ?

 

It can't hurt if we're living healthy lives And if we do, we can pass our wisdom down until we finally do leave this place.

[SonOfTheGods]

I looked at the link you provided. Not my stuff. If you open a thread related with that magic, promise I will not post. Magic is prohibited in Islam due to a very simple reason. The free will of human beings is holy. No one can interfere. If somebody interfere, it is a great sin. For instance, if you make magic to make a married couple get divorced, you violate their free wills.

So I assume Shah's short treaty on Melek Taus is not your path towards longevity and life eternal with the peacock?

[Isimsiz Biri]

So I assume Shah's short treaty on Melek Taus is not your path towards longevity and life eternal with the peacock?

 

Melek Taus or the Peacock Angel is the symbol of Yazidi faith. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melek_Taus)

Yazidis are not Muslim.

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidi

 

The Yazidi (also Yezidi, Kurdish: ئێزیدی or Êzidî) are a Kurdish^[13]religious group, who represent an ancient religion linked toZoroastrianism and Sufism.^[14] They currently live primarily in the Nineveh Province of northern Iraq. Additional communities in Armenia,Georgia, Turkey, and Syria have been in decline since the 1990s, their members having emigrated to Europe, especially to Germany.^[15]Their religion is seen as a highly syncretic complex of local Kurdish beliefs that contains Zoroastrian elements and Islamic Sufi doctrine introduced to the area by Sheikh Adi ibn Musafir in the 12th century.^[16] The Yazidi believe in God as creator of the world, which he placed under the care of seven holy beings or angels, the chief of whom is Melek Taus, the Peacock Angel.

 

The Theosophical Society, in its electronic version of the Encyclopedic Theosophical Glossary states:

Yezidis

(Arabic) [possibly from Persian yazdan god; or the 2nd Umayyad Caliph, Yazid (r. 680 - 683); or Persian city Yezd] A sect dwelling principally in Kurdistan, Armenia, and the Caucasus, who call themselves Dasni. Their religious beliefs take on the characteristics of their surrounding peoples, inasmuch as, openly or publicly, they regard Mohammed as a prophet, and Jesus Christ as an angel in human form. Points of resemblance are found with ancient Zoroastrian and Assyrian religion. The principal feature of their worship, however, is Satan under the name of Muluk-Taus. However, it is not the Christian Satan, nor the devil in any form; their Muluk-Taus is the hundred- or thousand-eyed cosmic wisdom, pictured as a bird (the peacock).

Idries Shah, writing under the pen-name Arkon Daraul, in the 1961 book Secret Societies Yesterday and Today, describes discovering a Yazidi-influenced secret society in the London suburbs called the "Order of the Peacock Angel." Idries Shah claimed that Tawûsê Melek could be understood, from the Sufi viewpoint, as an allegory of the higher powers in humanity.

 

Muslims worship only Allah. In Islam, there is no God but Allah.

In Islam, we believe Angels. However, Peacock Angel is not an angel in our faith.

[BaguaKicksAss]

In Islam, magic is strictly prohibited that means it is haram. Your Muslim magician friend is a toy of Satan. Allah never wants somebody to make magic on one person. Full stop.

 

Your experience in Egypt should be analyzed to understand what level of negative energy you received.

 

In his case, more by his own negative (and overabundant) ego. Though personally I don't think that has anything to do with him doing both Muslim stuff and magic stuff. There are a few who do that path, just the strict Muslims think it's pretty evil. Though some people see this as the same thing. On a side note we are talking more of Iblis or Shaytan?

[Isimsiz Biri]

In his case, more by his own negative (and overabundant) ego. Though personally I don't think that has anything to do with him doing both Muslim stuff and magic stuff. There are a few who do that path, just the strict Muslims think it's pretty evil. Though some people see this as the same thing. On a side note we are talking more of Iblis or Shaytan?

 

In Muslim countries, unfortunately, magic is very common. Everybody knows this. A woman who wants to have money for instance, has an affair with a married man. She finds someone to make magic in order to make man get divorced and marry her.

 

Also, within families, for example, a woman gets jealous of his husband's brother's wife. She gives money to make magic to destroy other woman, etc. You can not believe it.

 

All these magic are against the free will of the victim. In the day of Resurrection, the person who made the magic and the person who has paid for it has to ask forgiveness from the victim. If the victim does not forgive them, then they will be severely punished. God Almighty says that every sin can be pardoned but this type of sins can only be forgiven only by victims. Because God Almighty gave the right to the victim only.

 

For instance, a thief robs a house. Again, he has sin for stealing. But also he has sin for grasping house owner's rights. Again, in the day of Resurrection only that house owner can forgive him or not.

 

Satan (Shaytan) and Iblis (Iblees) are two names of the same being. It was the highest level Archangel before falling down.

In Holy Quran, the word Shaytan is used 88 times. The word Iblis is used 11 times. Totally, 99 times.

[bakeneko]

This is one of the lamest thread derails in this forum ever. Even Mopai threads were more on topic.

[baiqi]

For instance, his theory such that there had been a Sufi tradition before Islam is not true at all. Defenders of this theory can not give a name of a single Sufi who had lived before Islam.

I am no expert on this subject, but it is obvious to me that Sufism is completely different - sometimes in complete opposition- against "classical" Islam. I do believe there was something before Islam (which was much better, by the way). For instance, I suspect a connection with ancient Greek schools of philosophy (Pythagoras esoterism maybe) in Turkey. Sacred geometry and all. (Which, luckily, would not suffer too much from religious repression, contrary to other "pagan" stuff)

 

The name "Sufism" probably went after islamization of those parts, but the basis of the practice was already there.

 

That being said, I'd like to hear about academic/archaeological research on these topics.

[Isimsiz Biri]

This is one of the lamest thread derails in this forum ever. Even Mopai threads were more on topic.

 

You are in a daoist forum or supposed to be a daoist forum. Go with the flow, do not resist.

[Isimsiz Biri]

I am no expert on this subject, but it is obvious to me that Sufism is completely different - sometimes in complete opposition- against "classical" Islam. I do believe there was something before Islam (which was much better, by the way). For instance, I suspect a connection with ancient Greek schools of philosophy (Pythagoras esoterism maybe) in Turkey. Sacred geometry and all. (Which, luckily, would not suffer too much from religious repression, contrary to other "pagan" stuff)

 

The name "Sufism" probably went after islamization of those parts, but the basis of the practice was already there.

 

That being said, I'd like to hear about academic/archaeological research on these topics.

 

Sir,

 

I can not call myself as an "expert", I can only say I have more information than other people in this forum about Sufism.

 

You are confusing the level of stages.

 

What you call as "Classical Islam" is Shari'a level. In Sufism, there are four levels:

 

Shari’a (exoteric path), tariqa (esoteric path), haqiqa (mystical truth) and marifa (final mystical knowledge, unio mystica).

Please refer to following link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haqiqa#The_four_stages

 

Shari’a is Islamic law as revealed in the Qur'an and Sunna.[1] The first step in Sufism is following every aspect of the law perfectly. The purpose of this is to prove their love for God, by rigorous self-discipline and constant attention to their conduct.

 

Tariqa in Arabic means "path" and it denotes a Sufi brotherhood or order.[3] The orders are governed by shaykhs, spiritual leaders that mentor Sufis. Shaykhs are identified by the signs of God's grace that are evident, such as the ability to perform miracles.[4] They take on people, usually male, that are committed to the Sufi lifestyle and want to progress further in their spiritual education.

 

Haqiqa is a difficult concept to translate. The book Islamic Philosophical Theology defines it as "what is real, genuine, authentic, what is true in and of itself by dint of metaphysical or cosmic status",^[6] which is a valid definition but one that does not explain haqiqa's role in Sufism. Haqiqa may be best defined as the knowledge that comes from communion with God, knowledge gained only after the tariqa is undertaken.

 

Marifat (Arabic: المعرفة‎), which literally means knowledge, is the term used by Sufi Muslims to describe mystical intuitive knowledge of spiritual truth reached through ecstatic experiences, rather than revealed or rationally acquired.

 

1. Sharia (sacred laws)

2. Tariqa (sacred path)

3. Haqiqa (divine reality)

4. Marifa (gnosis or certain knowledge of God)

 

According to Prophetic tradition (hadith):

. Sharia consists of the words of the Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace,

. Tariqa consists of the actions of the Prophet,

. Haqiqa consists of the state of the Prophet, and

. Marifa consists of the secrets of the Prophet.

 

These four ways are very closely linked together and cannot be separated one from the other.

 

The Kalima (the sacred mantra of Islamic faith, La ilaha illallah) has four meanings according to these four ways.

 

According to Sharia the meaning is:

"There is nothing in the world that can be worshipped with certainty except Allah."

 

According to Tariqa the meaning is:

"There is none that can do a thing except Allah."

 

According to Haqiqa the meaning is:

"There is none who is sought after except Allah."

 

According to Marifa the meaning is:

"There is nothing existent except Allah."

 

 

From sufistic point of view: Sharia is the divine and sacred law of Islam. It makes one distinguish between right and wrong, between forbidden and permissible actions. Tariqa is the beautification of the Sharia' whereby whatever one has understood in Sharia' is made firm in one's heart under strict spiritual discipline. In this stage one has to have complete trust in God and also have lots of patience in whatever condition God keeps him in. This is the stage where one's soul is cleansed to receive God's divine attributes.

 

Haqiqa is the zenith of Spiritual Perfection. In this stage the attributes of God, the Most Perfect begins to manifest itself in one's self. Marifa is the goal to recognise our creator (God), or to become God-conscious in every state and action. In this state, there is no "time-space". Here only purity exists and only the pure can come close to God. In this state the seeker does not forget that he (or she) is still a servant and no matter how high he may progress spiritually he still remains the created and God the Creator. This state cannot be expressed through our very limited human faculties.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Isimsiz Biri

[Isimsiz Biri]

I am no expert on this subject, but it is obvious to me that Sufism is completely different - sometimes in complete opposition- against "classical" Islam. I do believe there was something before Islam (which was much better, by the way). For instance, I suspect a connection with ancient Greek schools of philosophy (Pythagoras esoterism maybe) in Turkey. Sacred geometry and all. (Which, luckily, would not suffer too much from religious repression, contrary to other "pagan" stuff)

 

The name "Sufism" probably went after islamization of those parts, but the basis of the practice was already there.

 

That being said, I'd like to hear about academic/archaeological research on these topics.

 

 

Tariqa is built on Sharia. Haqiqa is built on Tariqa. Marifat is built on Haqiqa. These stages support the other one.

 

The first known Sufi in the history is Junayd of Baghdad. He was born in 830 AD, two hundred years after Prophet Muhammad's death. There is no single name or tradition that can be called as Sufism before Islam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junayd_of_Baghdad

 

You are saying that before Islam there was something much better. This is a direct insult against our religion. If you think you are a Crusader, join Templar Knights who still exist today or even better join Black Water Company.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academi)

 

The first crusaders killed everybody in Jerusalem in 1099 AD. They were thinking exactly like you, before Islam there was something much better.

 

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Crusade#Massacre)

The massacre that followed the capture of Jerusalem has attained particular notoriety, as a "juxtaposition of extreme violence and anguished faith".[97] The eyewitness accounts from the crusaders themselves leave little doubt that there was great slaughter in the aftermath of the siege. Nevertheless, some historians propose that the scale of the massacre has been exaggerated in later medieval sources, partly as a result of influence from Muslim sources, and partly as a result of the misinterpretation of the Crusaders' resort to apocalyptic language to describe the scenes.[96] Although, some scholars believe that these later medieval sources were not meant to be taken seriously and that is the fault of modern people because they cannot tell the difference.[98] Contemporary Muslim reactions to the massacre were muted when compared to later polemics on the subject.[96]

After the successful assault on the northern wall, the defenders fled to the Temple Mount, pursued by Tancred and his men. Arriving before the defenders could secure the area, Tancred's men assaulted the precinct, butchering many of the defenders, with the remainder taking refuge in the Al-Aqsa Mosque. Tancred then called a halt to the slaughter, offering those in the mosque his protection.[96] When the defenders on the southern wall heard of the fall of the northern wall, they fled to the citadel, allowing Raymond and the Provençals to enter the city. Iftikhar al-Dawla, the commander of the garrison, struck a deal with Raymond, surrendering the citadel in return for being granted safe passage to Ascalon.[96] The slaughter continued for the rest of the day; Muslims were indiscriminately killed, and Jews who had taken refuge in their synagogue died when it was burnt down by the Crusaders. The following day, Tancred's prisoners in the mosque were slaughtered. Nevertheless, it is clear that some Muslims and Jews of the city survived the massacre, either escaping or being taken prisoner to be ransomed.[96] The Eastern Christian population of the city had been expelled before the siege by the governor, and thus escaped the massacre.[96]

[xor]

Isimiz Biri, you will remember we made peace before and I hope you will still have the good will to listen to what I have to say.

 

I think you are not representing your beliefs positively here by disrespecting others or judging them quickly and harshly. You will find that people will listen when you are kind and patient. If you are harsh they will close their hearts to you and will not be able to know truth from lie.

 

Reflect on how you are acting here(and perhaps in "real life") if not for your own sake then for the sake of the religion and beliefs you represent.

[bakeneko]

You are in a daoist forum or supposed to be a daoist forum. Go with the flow, do not resist.

 

Uhm...no. While this is the "general" subforum, all this trite BS now has nothing to do with either the thread topic or Daoism. What I will do is "get out" and practice. Worth more than reading on here.

[baiqi]

That is the problem with religions, and- sorry to say it again- particulary with Islam: there is no way you can have any rational discussion. Any criticism, even a mild one, is impossible.

 

I am not insulting you, Isimiz Biri. However, yes, I have LOTS of problems with your religion, and what it does to people's minds. On the other hand, Sufism seems to make people better. So it seems to me a complete contradiction that Sufism is a part of Islam.

 

I hate dogmas, wherever they come from. Get rid of them.

 

 

[Isimsiz Biri]

 

That is the problem with religions, and- sorry to say it again- particulary with Islam: there is no way you can have any rational discussion. Any criticism, even a mild one, is impossible.

 

I am not insulting you, Isimiz Biri. However, yes, I have LOTS of problems with your religion, and what it does to people's minds. On the other hand, Sufism seems to make people better. So it seems to me a complete contradiction that Sufism is a part of Islam.

 

I hate dogmas, wherever they come from. Get rid of them.

 

 

The most dangerous type of people is not the one who knows nothing. It is rather the one who knows a little bit. You can teach the first one, but you can not do anything to second one.

 

You already express your own contradiction. How can Sufism emerge from Islam? If one is good, one is bad according to your childish terminology, how can it happen?

 

Meanwhile, how can crusaders be so evil? Just think about it. The first Dogma is inside you. How can any religion be evil? Meditate.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Isimsiz Biri

[Isimsiz Biri]

Isimiz Biri, you will remember we made peace before and I hope you will still have the good will to listen to what I have to say.

 

I think you are not representing your beliefs positively here by disrespecting others or judging them quickly and harshly. You will find that people will listen when you are kind and patient. If you are harsh they will close their hearts to you and will not be able to know truth from lie.

 

Reflect on how you are acting here(and perhaps in "real life") if not for your own sake then for the sake of the religion and beliefs you represent.

Look, nobody has to love me. I do not have to love anybody too. I am expecting respect. If one does not show respect to me, he/she does not have the right to expect respect from me too. Simple. It is mutual.

 

There are many threads here which I never post. In my opinion, they are negative practices, but due to my respect to people's free will to choose, I simply keep silent.

[Brian]

Religions become "evil" when their leaders and followers make them so, in my opinion.

 

 

 

It is also my opinion that this thread is balancing on the edge of a precipice...

Edited October 31, 2013 by Brian

[Isimsiz Biri]

Double post, sorry.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Isimsiz Biri