7 months into meditation..weird issues, seeing if anyone has input

[Rara]

 

Yes, this is an outer way of bringing more balance into your system.

 

Do really so few people here know about actualy Taoist Practices? I mean this is a Taoist forum...

 

Learn to recycle your energies. Read this book http://de.slideshare.net/mantakchia/mantak-chia-awaken-healing-light

and learn there about the Inner Smile. The "smile", to be more precise, the sphincter mucles around the mouth and the eyes is used to draw cosmic+healing energies into your being To a location you choose with your mind. And since you smile the intention is automatically likely the same as what you want: positivity, healing.

 

It's so super important to be in touch with your organs and learn to recycle ALL negativity you encounter from there on in your life. You will never yell again or be mad about anyone because you can UTILIZE this energy in a transformational process and USE it for Yourself! How awesome is that? I know.

 

This then also works for the psyche. You direct this energy into any body part you want. Also the brain. With closed eyes watching from left to right, like "scanning" your brain for negativity (it's actually very tangible if done right, a feeling jumping from left to right) and then releasing it into the ground. Mother earth takes care of it.

 

The outer practices you have mentioned are always a superb way of refining the inner. Everything you do is a mirror. The MACROCOSMIC affects the MICRO, your inner world. By doing outward work, you also work on your inner self. Outside = inside.

 

So then, all the horror-movies and abusiveness has to come out one way or the other.

 

Can we actually call this real-life Bardo? When people experience such things before they die? I guess so.

Makes sense. Feels like I've hit a stalemate in meditation. And it IS just mood-altering.I become calmer and "more sage-like" for a temporary period and end up getting more and more gentle...

 

Then I do lack energy a lot and have "come downs" from meditation. This thread and what you just said in this quote could well be gold!

[bax44]

well guess I will update. Have been practicing zhan zhang from the book "The way of energy" about 20 minutes every morning along with 4-5 minutes of the horse stance. Also continued with 30 min - 2 hours of meditation depending on the day. Lately have had some days where I feel remarkably calm.. and others not so much. the zhan zhang training feels like its taken things to another level and almost feels like its having a detoxifying effect on me. One disconcerting thing is nightmares. Ive been having lots of them. last night was the 5th night in a row. violent, very disturbing nightmares. Im careful not to eat much before bed, I do meditate before bed sometimes. Ive never been *too* prone to nightmares so this is definitely a change. and it feels like its carrying over into my days somewhat. so although I feel contented for the most part, these are leaving a lingering agitated effect on me. Any thoughts? these have been very unsettling.

 

Edit-I know the advice earlier was to kinda just let this stuff come and go without overanalyizng, but i decided I should update the thread when anything changes, etc because you guys have really helped me:)

Edited January 19, 2014 by bax44

[Aetherous]

Zhan zhuang gets the lower body involved in the practice, sort of opening it up, and also kind of 'sinks qi' to those lower levels. The lower levels correspond to some of the darker aspects of the mind or reality, like some traditions say, "the hell realms".

 

This could just be an explanation of what's going on for you, and isn't necessarily true or something to be scared of. You should never be afraid of anything...only aware of actual danger.

Something that might help is focusing primarily on your breath during the practice. That will cause the mind to release, and energy will go upward again naturally. I highly recommend this if you're continuing...also think positive thoughts.

 

You could also think about taking a break from zhan zhuang and see if your dreams go back to normal. Then you will know for sure if this exercise is what causes it for you, and can then decide whether to continue with it or not. Don't believe that every practice which people say is good, is actually good. Your results determine whether something is good or not.

[bax44]

 

Zhan zhuang gets the lower body involved in the practice, sort of opening it up, and also kind of 'sinks qi' to those lower levels. The lower levels correspond to some of the darker aspects of the mind or reality, like some traditions say, "the hell realms".

 

This could just be an explanation of what's going on for you, and isn't necessarily true or something to be scared of. You should never be afraid of anything...only aware of actual danger.

 

Something that might help is focusing primarily on your breath during the practice. That will cause the mind to release, and energy will go upward again naturally. I highly recommend this if you're continuing...also think positive thoughts.

 

You could also think about taking a break from zhan zhuang and see if your dreams go back to normal. Then you will know for sure if this exercise is what causes it for you, and can then decide whether to continue with it or not. Don't believe that every practice which people say is good, is actually good. Your results determine whether something is good or not.

 

Thanks for the input.. Yeah ive no clue if the standing is causing the dreams, and fwiw I do focus on the breath during the practice.( In the book it recommend breathing into the lower stomach area or tan tien so thats what I do).. I feel remarkably well immediately after doing it so Id hate to think its having a detrimental effect. Also i try to counterbalance it with my regular breath sitting meditation but perhaps its doing something weird to my chemistry. The nightmares havent actually scared me or anything although theyve been pretty gruesome at times lol just more feels out of place to my norm than anything. Also have been sleeping a lot more, but as I said during the day I dont necessarily feel weak or anything, just seem to be needing more rest lately. again thank you:)

Edited January 19, 2014 by bax44

[4bsolute]

Makes sense. Feels like I've hit a stalemate in meditation. And it IS just mood-altering.I become calmer and "more sage-like" for a temporary period and end up getting more and more gentle...

 

Then I do lack energy a lot and have "come downs" from meditation. This thread and what you just said in this quote could well be gold!

 

Great that it helps you. The more you practice this, the more it integrates into your being. I know the fleeting effect of it when not done often or just beginning. Make it often, so the cellular learning is fast. Just to point out again that you want to do it all carefully please. Do it very precise because you can overheat organs so fast with these methods. Always do the closing exercise to not have stagnant energy somewhere.

 

After even one month of practising daily the MCO, you should feel completely different. More 'full' and responsible to everything that is and might come. This is an energetic difference we then feel for the first time in such a 'short time'.

 

And yes.. the methods take some time. Can get boring. 30min to 45min only for the 'warmup exercise' is quite an amount.. but it is worth it.

 

I personally blew my load a couple of times now after this, to feel a difference energy wise - and at least now I truly value when I was more energetic. Without A doubt. When we get to such a point, it is okay. We can go to that stage again with ease, since we have done it once and then we progress.

 

Take care and have fun!

Edited January 19, 2014 by 4bsolute

[RiverSnake]

In regards to the nightmares I'd recommend you get a book on Psychic Self-Defense and start using some protection techniques:

 

1. Psychic Shield by Caitlin Mathews

2. Psychic Protection by William Bloom

3. Protection and Reversal Magick by Jason Miller

4. Psychic Self-Defense for Home and Office by Choa Kok Sui

 

......etc.....a quick amazon search will yield many other options. Best of luck in your practice.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

[HoldorFold]

Bax44, from your original post it sounds to me like you've opened your higher centers and are feeling ungrounded.

 

I experienced similar symptoms. Depersonalisation/derealisation, over-emotionalism, feeling like I'm in a dream, loss of libido, loss of self, feeling like nothing matters etc. All these symptoms have deep meanings but are also symptoms of being ungrounded and loosing touch with your lower body/self.

Squats using heavy weights helps. As does "the horse stance", putting your awareness into your dantian, testicular breathing and sinking chi. I use these techniques and it sorts me right out.

[RiverSnake]

A good steak can help with grounding as well.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

[bax44]

In regards to the nightmares I'd recommend you get a book on Psychic Self-Defense and start using some protection techniques:

 

1. Psychic Shield by Caitlin Mathews

2. Psychic Protection by William Bloom

3. Protection and Reversal Magick by Jason Miller

4. Psychic Self-Defense for Home and Office by Choa Kok Sui

 

......etc.....a quick amazon search will yield many other options. Best of luck in your practice.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

 

what is the mechanism by which these practices cause nightmares, etc? is it old stuff being cleared out? I guess in the end it doesnt matter why/how, but I do find it fascinating meditation etc causes all these things.

[RiverSnake]

what is the mechanism by which these practices cause nightmares, etc? is it old stuff being cleared out? I guess in the end it doesnt matter why/how, but I do find it fascinating meditation etc causes all these things.

Generally speaking Psychic Self Defense is for guarding against harmful and chaotic energies that throw us from a state of homeostasis. These energies can come from ourselves (anger, hate, depression, fear) or can be external (negative thoughts of others, parasitic entities, psychic attacks, stagnant spaces…etc). There is generally a combination of external and internal circumstances that allow anything to get a foothold in our space.

 

Its partially been my experience and the experience of many others that when you start to walk "The Path" certain Beings both benevolent and harmful take notice and will try to exercise influence over your life (for your benefit or harm). I don't mean to spook you or anything….the point of me posting this is to empower you to protect yourself from harmful influences. We tend to be least aware while were sleeping and most vulnerable and open to influence….its important that you shield yourself during the day and while your sleeping and also to do regular cleansing (Salt baths, using incense….etc)

 

When your having dreams that having nothing to do with your day to day affairs then its worth looking into. It may be that detoxification is causing you to have nightmares, but maybe not. Either way a book on Psychic Self-Defense should be on every practitioners book shelf and its techniques used daily…....IMO.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited January 21, 2014 by OldChi

[C T]

A good steak can help with grounding as well.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

especially when its prepared with root ginger, black pepper and drizzled over with sesame oil. yum!

[BaguaKicksAss]

especially when its prepared with root ginger, black pepper and drizzled over with sesame oil. yum!

 

Not all Buddhists are vegans? (just all the ones I have fun into thus far?)

[C T]

Not all Buddhists are vegans? (just all the ones I have fun into thus far?)

Not in my circle of enlightened beings, no... j/k

 

What i have gathered so far is that there is alot of encouragement to abstain from eating meat, but then again, its not really a law within the religion that says one must be a vegan etc. Buddha's advice on this are tossed around a lot and open to various interpretations. I guess it depends on what level and which practice one is evolving into and out of. Different stages have different expectations, generates different results, and therefore, have different requirements which students are encouraged to adopt (the keyword is encourage, not like do or die kinda way ).

 

Personally i chop and change depending on cycles and seasons. Some periods the wish to consume meat is less, so i eat less, or none. Other times, i eat a little more, and also increase intake of tea, fruits, yogurt to sort of balance the heaviness. Nothing too complex, and definitely not bothered too much with research. I tend to trust my instincts which have been quite accurate thus far.

[bax44]

Well things have gotten a little worse this past week or so.. I woke up last sunday after some intense dreams, and a very nice meditation. and felt what I can only describe as a heaviness or sense of dread..During that meditation I recall having a very strong pulsing in the front of my head and a lot of sensations body wise. It was rather enjoyable and Ironic that the next day this gloom started. I have had this head pressure in the front forehead above my eyes since that night. Funny thing was I felt pretty good the week before this but this overwhelming depression has just hit me out of nowhere again; this time more intense and deeper if that makes sense. I have contemplated giving up my practices; this week has been rough for sure, low energy and just a sense of despair and hopelessness I cant describe. This is rough, I must admit. I have been rereading this thread just to reassure myself things will be ok I suppose.. Weird part is I feel pretty good when I meditate or whatever..Its taken all my willpower not to start my tobacco addiction back up and indulge in alcohol but I dont really have the energy for it..So in short theres this underlying feeling of malevolance thats somewhat disturbing, oddly enought I do feel pretty calm and serene. I will continue updating cuz as I said this place has been pretty good for me and you all have helped me a lot.

Edited February 9, 2014 by bax44

[Gerard]

Anyways, back in March I began meditation

 

How about grounding work? More important and a lot more effort and energy you need to put into it.

 

You are ungrounded.

[Unlearner]

Well things have gotten a little worse this past week or so.. I woke up last sunday after some intense dreams, and a very nice meditation. and felt what I can only describe as a heaviness or sense of dread..During that meditation I recall having a very strong pulsing in the front of my head and a lot of sensations body wise. It was rather enjoyable and Ironic that the next day this gloom started. I have had this head pressure in the front forehead above my eyes since that night. Funny thing was I felt pretty good the week before this but this overwhelming depression has just hit me out of nowhere again; this time more intense and deeper if that makes sense. I have contemplated giving up my practices; this week has been rough for sure, low energy and just a sense of despair and hopelessness I cant describe. This is rough, I must admit. I have been rereading this thread just to reassure myself things will be ok I suppose.. Weird part is I feel pretty good when I meditate or whatever..Its taken all my willpower not to start my tobacco addiction back up and indulge in alcohol but I dont really have the energy for it..So in short theres this underlying feeling of malevolance thats somewhat disturbing, oddly enought I do feel pretty calm and serene. I will continue updating cuz as I said this place has been pretty good for me and you all have helped me a lot.

 

I may be a little inexperienced to offer good advice, but I would simply like to say a few things regarding this post.

 

Regarding emotions, unless you cease having any emotion whatsoever, then you are always going to go through ups and downs. It's only natural to experience negative feelings which offset the positive, otherwise you would not feel anything. As an apprentice practitioner, I've certainly noticed that this is greatly amplified when I begin paying more attention to my various states through meditation. Most of it probably comes simply from becoming more attuned and conscious of thoughts and actions. For people who don't meditate or focus their attention inward, most of this becomes ignored through distractions and apathy. By meditating, I'm attempting to increase my awareness, both inward and outward, and reduce the number of random distractions I let capture my attention.

 

This brings me to my next point, you should figure out exactly what it is that you hope/expect to gain from meditation. By altering your awareness and trying to improve yourself, you can't exactly expect to approach everything with the same mindset you've had for all the rest of your life that you haven't been meditating. Try to figure out where it is that your meditation is going to take you as you increase your awareness and understanding so that you won't be caught off guard when you actually reach that point. If a person's goal in meditating is simply to feel better, either physically or emotionally, then they should probably rethink what the actual act of meditation is going to do for them. To me, improving health through meditation is more of a side-effect than the actual goal, so in order to take my meditation seriously it's important to understand what I'm doing to my state of mind.

 

I can't offer much in the way of the specific physical sensations. The only thing I can really say about the dreams is just pay attention to them. In my personal experience, I had some rather intense and terrifying nightmares about once or twice a week for about 3 or 4 months. It was a very unpleasant experience, but they also helped me to realize some important personal issues I was having trouble with, and once I found the source of these issues and working to amend these problems, I was able to understand what made those nightmares so intense for me, and then they stopped shortly afterward.

 

One more thing I could say in conclusion: if you choose to stop your meditation, you're not really doing anything except going back to distracting yourself, it's not really changing anything.

[Mark Foote]

Thanks for the input.. Yeah ive no clue if the standing is causing the dreams, and fwiw I do focus on the breath during the practice.( In the book it recommend breathing into the lower stomach area or tan tien so thats what I do).. I feel remarkably well immediately after doing it so Id hate to think its having a detrimental effect. Also i try to counterbalance it with my regular breath sitting meditation but perhaps its doing something weird to my chemistry. The nightmares havent actually scared me or anything although theyve been pretty gruesome at times lol just more feels out of place to my norm than anything. Also have been sleeping a lot more, but as I said during the day I dont necessarily feel weak or anything, just seem to be needing more rest lately. again thank you:)

 

The right guide to me is happiness apart from the material happiness of the senses. My practice I would describe as letting go in action, action generated by the stretch in which I find myself with each inhalation and exhalation, and action generated by the distinction of sense which invariably follows the experience of a sense happiness.

 

Three senses in particular come forward for me when a posture is held, the tactile/proprioceptive/kinesthetic sense from the parts and surface of the body, the vestibular sense of pitch, yaw, and roll at the location in which awareness takes place, and the sense of gravity with which the body is infused.

 

The distinction of sense, as I have said, gives rise to action in the movement of breath. It's letting go of action through relaxation and calm in the movement of breath that I recall as the happiness that draws me.

 

This I wrote on another site, and thanks to Ya Mu for helping me to see it:

 

"In the course of conversation, I put forward to a practitioner of medical Qigong that the experience of qi (chi) takes place in a state between waking and sleeping. He replied that he had once been in a lab hooked up to instruments while he practiced, and the folks watching the dials affirmed that he went through the first three stages of sleep with his eyes open. He agreed with me that this is the aspect of his practice that is difficult to teach, and said that his students get it through the practice of the art he teaches.

 

Olaf Blanke wrote:

 

"In summary: A conflict between tactil/proprioceptive/kinesthetic and visual information coupled with a conflict between visual and vestibular information can, in some cases, give rise to a feeling that the self is in two places simultaneously, which can result in suicidal tendencies in the individual as they attempt to re-establish a unitary self at all cost."

 

(From a paper by Olaf Blanke and Christine Mohr, here)

 

Now I would suggest that the eyes are open in zazen for their influence in resetting the vestibular sense and providing a continuity in the sense of location, yet in zazen the proprioceptive sense must be allowed to influence the sense of location almost as though the eyes are closed. It's a trick, a lot like falling asleep with your eyes open."

Edited February 9, 2014 by Mark Foote

[z00se]

i would agree that u need to do more grounding work. The energy created in ur meditation is too much for the space within ur body that can accomidate it. You can bring about deeper levels of balance and wider energy channels by practicing some more physical aspects of ur cultivation. Then u will be more prepared to take larger amounts of energy in. If u can spare 10-15 mins to answer a few questions suitable suggestions can be found here - healthcultivation.com/TCMIS/preQuestions.php

[bax44]

As far as being ungrounded, earlier in the thread it was recommended that i take up standing exercises, etc, which i practice everyday now. also i take my dog for long walks everyday, and i work out pretty hard. my grounding activitues( if these are what you guys are talking about) certainly more time is spent on these than meditating. if this isnt what is meant or if there are other things i can or should be doing to ground myself than please let me know..

[bax44]

Just for clarification, I do standing exercises from the book "the way of energy " which I'd say I do between 20-30 min of daily. I also do between 3-1" minutes of horse stance everyday, usually before my sitting meditations. Also as I said I do take long walks and get plenty of physical exercise. I'd say I meditate between 45 min to an hour and a half daily. As always, I'm highly appreciative for the advice. I guess I'm just unclear as to how I can "ground" myself further so if I'm not doing it enough or the right way than I'd love some advice as I am still clearly learning:)

[bax44]

As to my goal in meditation; I suppose as I said in my op it started out as a health thing, and has certainly evolved into something more. I suppose increasing my awareness etc is definitely the "goal" now as I've come to realize the benefits, of clarity and periods of high levels of happiness, etc.However I've read where expectations etc can get in the way so mostly I just sit and breathe with no huge goals in mind. I guess just for troubleshooting purposes I should add that lately in both standing and sitting meditations I've experienced some intense involuntary rocking and movements. I'm just wondering if this is some sort of energy blockages going on. These haven't been unpleasant at all but have certainly caught me off-guard.

 

Edit: zoose Ty for the website suggestion.

Edited February 9, 2014 by bax44

[RiverSnake]

As to my goal in meditation; I suppose as I said in my op it started out as a health thing, and has certainly evolved into something more. I suppose increasing my awareness etc is definitely the "goal" now as I've come to realize the benefits, of clarity and periods of high levels of happiness, etc.However I've read where expectations etc can get in the way so mostly I just sit and breathe with no huge goals in mind. I guess just for troubleshooting purposes I should add that lately in both standing and sitting meditations I've experienced some intense involuntary rocking and movements. I'm just wondering if this is some sort of energy blockages going on. These haven't been unpleasant at all but have certainly caught me off-guard.

Edit: zoose Ty for the website suggestion.

 

Sometimes spontaneous movements happen when we meditate. Usually body just needs to move In a certain way to flush out some blockages or physical tension.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

[bax44]

Sometimes spontaneous movements happen when we meditate. Usually body just needs to move In a certain way to flush out some blockages or physical tension. My 2 cents, Peace

Cool. After the movements subside I notice a much lighter feeling and my breathing feels amazing , so that makes sense.

[Rara]

@Bax44 The only other thing I can think about in addition to what people have said recently is that what really helped me is understanding or "reality". I won't waffle on here because I can go quite in depth but the fact of the matter is, whether sleeping or awake, you're in a dream. Everything is effectively a perception in which your mind is portraying a series of events. What is emotionally different from a nightmare or having a really bad day? Not a lot!

 

And you will notice that you can have physical reactions from nightmares, right? Most common being heavy breathing, increased heart-rate and sweats. Emotional stress causes physical stress...but everything is mental right from the word go.

 

So begin this practice:

 

When in day-to-day activities, stop yourself every now and then in mid-flow and ask yourself "Am I dreaming?" Then mindfully touch something and just get used to the sensations.

 

Then, before bed, begin mentally preparing yourself for whatever reoccurring scenarios/beasties you come across. Start thinking of a plot twist...

 

Soon, you will be able to control the outcomes of these dreams...but firstly, you will be controlling your role within the dream, as opposed to you just being swept away by it.

[Mark Foote]

...the fact of the matter is, whether sleeping or awake, you're in a dream. Everything is effectively a perception in which your mind is portraying a series of events. What is emotionally different from a nightmare or having a really bad day? Not a lot!

 

And you will notice that you can have physical reactions from nightmares, right? Most common being heavy breathing, increased heart-rate and sweats. Emotional stress causes physical stress...but everything is mental right from the word go.

 

So begin this practice:

 

When in day-to-day activities, stop yourself every now and then in mid-flow and ask yourself "Am I dreaming?" Then mindfully touch something and just get used to the sensations...

 

Interesting exercise. Stopping oneself in mid-flow:

 

"Among Erickson's best-known innovations is the hypnotic handshake induction, which is a type of confusion technique. The induction is done by the hypnotist going to shake hands with the subject, then interrupting the flow of the handshake in some way, such as by grabbing the subject's wrist instead. If the handshake continues to develop in a way which is out-of-keeping with expectations, a simple, non-verbal trance is created, which may then be reinforced or utilized by the hypnotist. All these responses happen naturally and automatically without telling the subject to consciously focus on an idea." ("Milton Erickson", Wikipedia)

 

mindfully touching something (and "involuntary rocking and movements"):

 

The Forgotten Sense: Proprioception (David Brown)

 

See also:

 

The Vestibular Sense (David Brown)