Video-Wang Ji Wu's Neigong Exercises

[mjjbecker]

I've been meaning to post this up but kept forgetting.

 

The link was originally posted on YouTube during a 'debate' on Tim Cartmell's video of these exercises.

I've no intention of going into who is right or wrong or whatever (one can practice exercises in more than one way, depending on ones mood alone). I do think the video is useful and interesting for anyone doing these exercises, and the source does seem to be authentic and direct.

 

http://video.sina.com.cn/v/b/39441868-1117945852.html

 

For anyone with the book it will be helpful in showing the exercises actually being performed.

 

[Vitalii]

good exercises, but it is not neigong.

[ChiDragon]

健身十六式

 

By the given title, it is only an invigorated exercise for the body. It is not any special Neigong method.

 

 

[mjjbecker]

I do think the video is useful and interesting for anyone doing these exercises, and the source does seem to be authentic and direct.

 

I can't, I really can't, be bothered to debate the matter of terminology or the validity of these practices. Suffice to say that if a 100 year old Xing Yi master of superb repute, and one of his top students, (who also studied neigong under Hu Yaozhen), Zhang Bao Yang (over 90 years old and still teaching) held/holds these exercises in high esteem, that will do for me.

 

If anyone with direct experience of Wang Ji Wu's lineage, or perhaps who have actually practiced the exercises, would like to chip in, I'm sure that would be instructive and interesting. Or we could just have the usual influx of opinion sans experience.

[ChiDragon]

I am sorry, you did specify "I've no intention of going into who is right or wrong or whatever"

We don't need a debate in this manner. We are only saying it is not what it seems to be. It was as simple as that. I know it is frustrating, sometimes, when people do have different views but have to come out.

Edited October 27, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Brian]

One of the nice things about a forum such as this is that it allows some insight into the character and experiences of various posters, providing an opportunity to value the pith and merit of the individuals behind the opinions and thereby inform one's own opinion.

 

This thread is an excellent example.

 

Thank you for sharing, Mr. Becker.

 

_/\_

Edited October 27, 2013 by Brian

[soaring crane]

.

[Isimsiz Biri]

There is a confusion of terminology when you use the word "neigong"

 

Neigong can be understood as Mo Pai or Longmen Pai type meditation exercises or Taijiquan, Baguazhang, Yi Quan, Xing Yi Quan, etc type practices.

 

I really do not know the answer to this question. Is a new terminology necessary to distinguish two type exercises?

[lifeforce]

My experience with this set has been well documented on these forums so I don't wish to rewrite everything I've posted. I paid £14 for the book way back in 2002 and it changed my life, that's how good it is. Neigong simply means inner work and that's exactly what this set does.

[Isimsiz Biri]

My experience with this set has been well documented on these forums so I don't wish to rewrite everything I've posted. I paid £14 for the book way back in 2002 and it changed my life, that's how good it is. Neigong simply means inner work and that's exactly what this set does.

 

 

I am sure the set is useful. No objection. My only concern is about terminology. When you use "Neigong" in a broader sense as inner work, it confuses people.

 

There are people in the forum discussing Mo Pai and Longmen Pai and calling it "Neigong".

 

There are others calling neijia arts and some other qigongs also "Neigong".

 

In my opinion, it is not fair to call all of them as "Neigong."

[Yulaw]

My experience with this set has been well documented on these forums so I don't wish to rewrite everything I've posted. I paid £14 for the book way back in 2002 and it changed my life, that's how good it is. Neigong simply means inner work and that's exactly what this set does.

 

I have the book and the DVD (Xing Yi Nei Gong: Xing Yi Health Maintenance and Internal Strength Development) and I have done the exercises and I like them, but I got it more because I train XIngyiquan (Hebei) than I did for the Neigong aspects/claims

 

As for the attached video link, I cannot open it at work so I will have to check it at home later.

 

But to be honest for internal work I am more incline to work with Zhan Zhuang like you find with Lam Kam Chuen or simply in Santi Shi training since that is more my background via teachers I have had.

 

Note:

I realize Tim Cartmell's Xingyiquan is Shanxi style

Edited October 29, 2013 by Yulaw

[lifeforce]

I have the book and the DVD (Xing Yi Nei Gong: Xing Yi Health Maintenance and Internal Strength Development) and I have done the exercises and I like them, but I got it more because I train XIngyiquan (Hebei) than I did for the Neigong aspects/claims

 

As for the attached video link, I cannot open it at work so I will have to check it at home later.

 

But to be honest for internal work I am more incline to work with Zhan Zhuang like you find with Lam Kam Chuen or simply in Santi Shi training since that is more my background via teachers I have had.

 

Note:

I realize Tim Cartmell's Xingyiquan is Shanxi style

 

Tim Cartmell has practiced both Hebei and Shanxi. However the book refers to a style which has more in common to Xinyiliuhequan. For instance the Santi is 50/50 with a slight forward lean from the waist.

 

From page 4 : 'The style of xingyiquan which Wang Ji Wu taught and practiced is known as the Dai style of xingyiquan (originally called Liu He Xin Yi Quan) because it descended from Cao Ji Wu's student, Dai Long Bang.

[Yulaw]

Tim Cartmell has practiced both Hebei and Shanxi. However the book refers to a style which has more in common to Xinyiliuhequan. For instance the Santi is 50/50 with a slight forward lean from the waist.

 

From page 4 : 'The style of xingyiquan which Wang Ji Wu taught and practiced is known as the Dai style of xingyiquan (originally called Liu He Xin Yi Quan) because it descended from Cao Ji Wu's student, Dai Long Bang.

 

I did not know Tim trained Hebei, but I see you are right

 

Li Luoneng > Liu Qilan > Li Cunyi (Hebei )> Zhang Junfeng > Hong Yixiang > Xu Hongji > Tim Cartmell

 

Shanxi

 

Li Luoneng > Liu Qilan > Lu Fengchun > Zhou Luqan > Liang Kequan > Tim Cartmell

 

Wang Jiwu

 

Li Luoneng > Liu Qilan > Wang Fuyuan > Wang Jiwu

 

Che Yihai > Wang Fuyuan > Wang Jiwu

 

Now Che Yihai

 

Che Yihai learned from Dai Erin and/or Li Luoneng but I am inclined to think Dai Erin

 

Xin Yi Liu He Quan comes off of Li Zheng lineage which Wang Ji Wu is not part of

 

Cao Jiwu > Ma Xueli > Zhang Zhicheng > Li Zheng

 

Li Luoneng changed the name form xinyiquan to Xingyiquan and that is where Shanxi style comes from and it is the lineage that Wang Ji Wu is in.

 

The label of Xin Yi Liu He Quan sometimes gets thrown around pretty easily

 

However I have heard Dai Xinyiquan referered to as Dai Xin Yi Liu He Quan before but to be honest I am not sure if that is correct.

 

However Wang Jiwu is in a Shanxi lineage and Shanxi’s santi shi stance is much more centered than Hebei with lower hand positions in Santi Shi than Hebei

Edited October 29, 2013 by Yulaw

[Yulaw]

I forgot to add that Dai family is not XIngyiquan it is Dai Xinyiquan so even if the Dai family style can be called Dai Xin Yi Liu He Quan it cannot be called Dai Xing Yi Liu He Quan. IT did not become Xingyi until Li Luoneng called his style Xingyiquan.

 

Now what Wang Jiwu trained and what anyone who trains xingyiquan can say is it comes form Dai Xinyiquan...but it is not dai xinyiquan if you trace back to Li Luoneng.

[lifeforce]

OK. To be honest I'm not too bothered about the lineage or sub-style of the systems. It's all about practical experience.

 

Thanks mjj becker for starting this thread. It's a subject I'm passionate about.

I can't seem to be able to watch the video for whatever reason. If I'm brutally honest I've never even wanted to watch a video of someone performing the set. Before I got the book I had a couple of decades of martial arts experience, albeit in external arts, and so I had a good grasp of movement. For a total beginner however, I would recommend a teacher.

I learned the set a few moves at a time, slowly building up over a period of a couple of weeks, until I had the whole set memorized without the need to keep checking the book. Then I built up the repetitions slowly. After a few months practice I started seeing, or should I say feeling and experiencing the results.

I should add, that the results are not unique to this system. Any daily, diligent practice over a period of time will yield results. This is the 'gong' in neigong.

Also, the results are not always noticed from the outside, if at all, but felt and experienced on the inside 'nei'

Neigong = inner work.

I think a lot of people confuse the term neigong with the sitting inner alchemy practice of neidan.

Neigong encompasses a wide variety of practices, this is but one of them. To say that this system of '...Health Maintenance and Internal Strength Developement' is not neigong is not really correct.

I think I maybe the only person on these forums who uses this system, and ONLY this system as my practice. I practice no other form of internal art whatsoever. I can honestly say that this book has changed my life for the better and I don't think I need anything else to supplement it.

Edited October 30, 2013 by lifeforce

[ChiDragon]

So far, no one has come up with a good English description or definition of Neigong(內功) yet. Once people understand what it is, it would make it much more clear to be practiced. One should be able to classify which type of method is Neigong or not.

The key to it is to tell it what it is and don't say what it isn't......!!!!

Edited October 31, 2013 by ChiDragon

[shenshu]

Hello lifeforce,

 

May I ask you how much time per day do you practice the Xing Yi Nei Gong set ?

 

Thank you.

[Isimsiz Biri]

So far, no one has come up with a good English description or definition of Neigong(內功) yet. Once people understand what it is, it would make it much more clear to be practiced. One should be able to classify which type of method is Neigong or not.

 

The key to it is to tell it what it is and don't say what it isn't......!!!!

 

I am aware of it. I am pointing the practical situation only. There are Himalayas between Mo Pai / John Chang abilities and other "Neigongs"

[lifeforce]

Hello lifeforce,

 

May I ask you how much time per day do you practice the Xing Yi Nei Gong set ?

 

Thank you.

Hi shenshu.

It takes me around half an hour, which includes rubbing down/closing off, a very important part of the practice to not let qi stagnate anywhere.

[shenshu]

Hi shenshu.

It takes me around half an hour, which includes rubbing down/closing off, a very important part of the practice to not let qi stagnate anywhere.

 

Half an hour only !? I have read all your other posts about this set, and I am very impressed by the different results you got with only half an hour of practice. The other sets of qigong I am aware of generally require more time.

 

Thanks again ! _/\_

[lifeforce]

Half an hour only !? I have read all your other posts about this set, and I am very impressed by the different results you got with only half an hour of practice. The other sets of qigong I am aware of generally require more time.

 

Thanks again ! _/\_

Yes, only half an hour.

When I had the set fully memorized, but practiced fewer repetitions, it would only take 15 minutes. This slowly built up over time to around the 30 minute mark.

The results come from dedicated, daily practice over a long period of time. I have been practicing 11 years now. I would give it a year, at least, of any form, before noticeable results are experienced.

[JustBHappy]

Interesting, thanks for posting.

[Antares]

Well, real Neigung must nourish your pre-heaven "treasures". Other neigung systems can give some energy but deplete pre-heaven jing. What does this neigung really do?

 

It seems like qigong exercises for "internal power" and health. I want to be wrong but it might work only with post heaven qi.

May be masters practiced something else along with this set for the pre-heaven qi cultivation. It is not explicit in the book what was the method for the alchemy work. It is not in the book imho. This set is only part of the neikung system imho