The importance of Bodhichitta and compassion

[RongzomFan]

Only mahayana has bodhicitta.

[Simple_Jack]

Only mahayana has bodhicitta.

 

Right, but IMO, cultivating the 4 immeasurables of aspiring bodhicitta on the paths of accumulation and preparation, is a means of calming the affictions and gaining merit by taking into account the bodhisattva vows:

 

http://www.thubtenchodron.org/PrayersAndPractices/aspiring_and_engaging_bodhicitta.html

 

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/practice_material/vows/bodhisattva/root_bodhisattva_pledges.html

 

Vow number 6: "...Maintaining this vow does not mean forsaking a historical perspective."

 

P.S. I fail at most of the auxiliary vows on a daily basis.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Simple_Jack

[Simple_Jack]

Right, but IMO, cultivating the 4 immeasurables of aspiring bodhicitta on the paths of accumulation and preparation, is a means of calming the affictions and gaining merit by taking into account the bodhisattva vows:

 

http://www.thubtenchodron.org/PrayersAndPractices/aspiring_and_engaging_bodhicitta.html

 

We also have to take into account the tantric vows on top that...

 

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/practice_material/vows/general_tantra/common_root_tantric_pledges.html

 

"If, with the intention of identifying and teaching higher and lower views, other precepts are deprecated, this is not transgression, but greatly increases merit."

 

 

 

- Commentary on The 14 Root Downfalls | rtsa ltung bcu bzhi

Edited October 29, 2013 by Simple_Jack

[Jetsun]

This thread started with jetsun taking a shit on internet buddhists. So expect pushback.

 

Hardly, all I commented on was my impression that people weren't emphasising bodhicitta very much, its hardly taking a shit, any offence is your own projection onto what I wrote.

 

Because you people commenting on these threads aren't practitioners of buddhadharma and don't understand the basics such as the 37 factors of awakening.

 

How do you know who here is and isn't a practitioner of the buddhadharma? you don't need to have an elaborate intellectual understanding of it to be a practitioner or make valuable contributions to a discussion about it.

[RongzomFan]

Hardly, all I commented on was my impression that people weren't emphasising bodhicitta very much, its hardly taking a shit, any offence is your own projection onto what I wrote.

 

Since bodhicitta is about achieving samyaksmbuddhahood as fast as possible to benefit infinite sentient beings, the mere fact they are discussing Vajrayana is an indication of bodhicitta.

 

Apart from the 2,000+ hits on the Dharma Wheel search engine for "bodhicitta".

[RongzomFan]

Right, but IMO, cultivating the 4 immeasurables of aspiring bodhicitta on the paths of accumulation and preparation, is a means of calming the affictions and gaining merit by taking into account the bodhisattva vows:

 

http://www.thubtenchodron.org/PrayersAndPractices/aspiring_and_engaging_bodhicitta.html

 

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/practice_material/vows/bodhisattva/root_bodhisattva_pledges.html

 

P.S. I fail at most of the auxiliary vows on a daily basis.

 

 

I think you fell into the common error that you need bodhisattva vows.

 

You need bodhicitta, but not bodhisattva vows. As far as I know.

 

Having bodhicitta makes you a bodhisattva by definition.

Edited October 29, 2013 by RongzomFan

[Simple_Jack]

How do you know who here is and isn't a practitioner of the buddhadharma? you don't need to have an elaborate intellectual understanding of it to be a practitioner or make valuable contributions to a discussion about it.

 

1. TI, SeekerofTao, etc. haven't received transmission and explanation on practices related to Vajrayana.

 

2. Almost no one who posts on this board, understands the basic factors of the sutrayana path, such as the 8-fold noble path and the role of satipatthana among other things.

 

Yes, I notice there is a vow against using sarcasm.

 

Yeah, there's a reason why bodhisattva vows are separate to refuge vows.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Simple_Jack

[Cheshire Cat]

There are several instances of Buddha teaching the 4 bhramaviharas to lay people, the Kalamas being one example:

 

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an03/an03.065.than.html

 

... for the sake of recruiting monks

 

There was no enlightenment for lay people before mahayana ...

[Simple_Jack]

... for the sake of recruiting monks

 

There was no enlightenment for lay people before mahayana ...

 

::Sigh::

 

I posted this on TTB's before:

 

http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=Lay_arahant

 

"Although there are about 3,000 lay sotapannas mentioned in the Pali Canon, at least 90 sakadagamis, at least 500 anagamis, and about 21 lay arahants mentioned in the Pali Canon, there are far more monastic monks and nuns mentioned as reaching full enlightenment..."

 

"Full enlightenment" in this case is arahantship.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Simple_Jack

[Cheshire Cat]

Could you explain why?

 

Thanks.

 

To explain is the "job" of the Masters

 

In theravada tradition, they teach to avoid dead people as objects for this kind of meditation... but I'm not sure if this is also in the sutta.

[Cheshire Cat]

::Sigh::

 

I posted this on TTB's before:

 

http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=Lay_arahant

 

"Although there are about 3,000 lay sotapannas mentioned in the Pali Canon, at least 90 sakadagamis, at least 500 anagamis, and about 21 lay arahants mentioned in the Pali Canon, there are far more monastic monks and nuns mentioned as reaching full enlightenment..."

 

"Full enlightenment" in this case is arahantship.

 

From the link that you provided:

 

"You say that if a layman attains arahantship he must either enter the Order that very day or die and attainparinibbàna. Yet if he is unable to find a robe and bowl and preceptor then that exalted condition of arahantship is a waste, for destruction of life is involved in it."

 

Can you feel how ridiculous and sectarian is this statement?

 

I have no faith in such a discourse... but apparently, the "work" of the buddha was to establish a monastic community and give it a "role" in society. .

I'm not aware of any "lay path" described in the Sutta.

Edited October 29, 2013 by DAO rain TAO

[9th]

I can see that you're not mature enough to objectively discuss the implications of these views without being overly defensive to challenges made against these views.

 

Traditionally, Gelugpa's emphasize ascertaining correct view i.e. dependent origination during study/hearing (the teachings), contemplation (of the teachings) and meditation (on the teachings); from the beginning up till the moment of realization, this is the prime objective. Needless, to mention, is the approach of sutrayana.

 

 

 

Says the guy with the quote from the Bhagavad Gita in his signature.

 

 

I do not liken wisdom teachings to spectator sports, nor do I identify with a particular "home team", rooting for them as a cheerleader would. If you really want to talk about "maturity", you may want to start there.

 

However, in regards to vajrayana and especially the legacy of the siddhas, you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. Your misconceptions are interesting to hear about nonetheless, and its also nice that you provide a cautionary tale for others.

 

I have plenty of rope to spare (... dont worry its not a snake). Let us proceed.

 

[Seeker of Wisdom]

Because you people commenting on these threads aren't practitioners of buddhadharma and don't understand the basics such as the 37 factors of awakening.

Whether I am a practitioner of Buddhadharma or not is a different issue than whether or not I am a practitioner of Vajrayana, unless you are enough of a sectarian to think that only Vajrayana is valid Buddhism. Besides, if I practiced Vajrayana I wouldn't talk about it publicly, so you would never know unless I decided to PM you, as a Vajrayana practitioner, to discuss it.

 

I do Buddhist practice, try to live by Buddhist principles, study Buddhism... please tell what I have to do to demonstrate that I am a practitioner of Buddhadharma and understand the basics. Perhaps you are conflating Dharma with your own tightly held concepts and pretensions.

 

Perhaps you find it hard to believe that someone can be a Buddhist without trumpeting their practice and knowledge of it as a character trait they are extremely proud of.

 

Someone who can barely name any of the 37 factors but still does their best to follow them in their heart is a higher practitioner in my eyes than someone like you - a classic 'internet Buddhist' who thinks that they are great practitioners because they have memorised loads of words.

 

All your study is nothing, because - judging by the way you speak to people - Dharma is just an intellectual game for you, not something you truly practice apart from mechanical ritual. You spit on the Dharma with nearly everything you say about it, and the way you say it, regardless of whether what you are saying is correct or not.

 

Go back to the basics yourself, and try some Right Speech.

[RongzomFan]

Ok the best book on all of this stuff is

 

A Torch Lighting the Way to Freedom by Dudjom Rinpoche

[RongzomFan]

Go back to the basics yourself, and try some Right Speech.

 

That's Shravakayana

[Seeker of Wisdom]

That's Shravakayana

 

Exactly.

[RongzomFan]

Exactly.

 

Exactly exactly

[rex]

Hey! Skeletor practices bodhichitta ...

 

 

 

[RongzomFan]

Ok the best book on all of this stuff is

 

A Torch Lighting the Way to Freedom by Dudjom Rinpoche

 

bump

[Simple_Jack]

From the link that you provided:

 

"You say that if a layman attains arahantship he must either enter the Order that very day or die and attainparinibbàna. Yet if he is unable to find a robe and bowl and preceptor then that exalted condition of arahantship is a waste, for destruction of life is involved in it."

 

Can you feel how ridiculous and sectarian is this statement?

 

I have no faith in such a discourse... but apparently, the "work" of the buddha was to establish a monastic community and give it a "role" in society. .

I'm not aware of any "lay path" described in the Sutta.

 

Did you read this before making that comment?:

 

"The Milindapanha, which is almost as old as the [rest of (Burmese ed.)] Pali Canon above implies that lay people do/did attain enlightenment. It is just that they all ordained or died within 7 days or less.

Many of the arahants mentioned in the Pali Canon who attained enlightenment were either monks or nuns or ascetics from other traditions, so technically, perhaps the ascetics were not lay followers.

But there is a list of 21 lay followers in AN 6.131 - 151 / 3:450 f; PTS ed AN 6.119-120 who attained full enlightenment. One is listed as a doctor, others as householders, so it does not appear they were all ascetics."

 

The fact that the Pali canon has discourses where Shakyamuni Buddha or his disciples, gave the complete teachings to kings, householders, etc., shows that the teachings were just as applicable to lay followers.

 

I do not liken wisdom teachings to spectator sports, nor do I identify with a particular "home team", rooting for them as a cheerleader would. If you really want to talk about "maturity", you may want to start there.

 

Obviously, you've entirely missed the point of buddhadharma, if you think it pertains to this.

 

Whether I am a practitioner of Buddhadharma or not is a different issue than whether or not I am a practitioner of Vajrayana, unless you are enough of a sectarian to think that only Vajrayana is valid Buddhism. Besides, if I practiced Vajrayana I wouldn't talk about it publicly, so you would never know unless I decided to PM you, as a Vajrayana practitioner, to discuss it.

 

I started out in Buddhism with Therevada. Also, I can tell from your posts on Dzogchen that you haven't received transmission and instructions from a guru.

 

 

I do Buddhist practice, try to live by Buddhist principles, study Buddhism... please tell what I have to do to demonstrate that I am a practitioner of Buddhadharma and understand the basics. Perhaps you are conflating Dharma with your own tightly held concepts and pretensions.

 

Well for starters, instead of complaining that me and Rongzomfan are always trolling, you could receive instruction and training on buddhadharma.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Simple_Jack

[RongzomFan]

Speaking of "your own tightly held concepts and pretensions", isn't Seeker of Tao the guy who kept insisting samatha is important for other people's paths.

 

Hypocrisy?

[RongzomFan]

Best book on all of this stuff:

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=k4z9oy0ZxfMC&printsec=frontcover&dq=A+torch+lighting+the+way+to+freedom&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9xxwUrmaEYiUkQee0IGQAg&ved=0CD0QuwUwAA#v=onepage&q=A%20torch%20lighting%20the%20way%20to%20freedom&f=false

[Simple_Jack]

Hey! Skeletor practices bodhichitta ...

 

 

....If only I had the wisdom and compassionate influence of Skeletor memes on my life....

Edited October 29, 2013 by Simple_Jack

[9th]

Obviously, you've missed the point of buddhadharma.

 

According to you.

[Simple_Jack]

According to you.

 

Not really, what I've posted is actually emphasized as the starting point in sutrayana: which is discerning correct view i.e. dependent origination. Of course, in Vajarayana as a whole, the view is introduced by the guru, but what I posted about the Gelugpas is not something I made up. Even within Dzogchen, which is beyond sems: tantras and commentaries from different masters, goes to lengths to distinguish this view from other paths (then there's people like Longchenpa and ChNN who have said that the view of Dzogchen is the same as Prasanga Madhyamaka - the difference being that the former is not a result of intellectual analysis).

Edited October 29, 2013 by Simple_Jack