BDSM, psycho-spiritual context?

[Flolfolil]

So, i tried the pain/submission thing the other night. Rather enjoyable. Jumped right into it without doing any kind of research or talking with anyone experienced and i kinda regret that. So, i have some observations and questions:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subspace_%28BDSM%29

^what is the relationship between this and meditation?

i felt as if being consensually harmed was -very- ego destroying and like emptiness-style meditation i sometimes do. Very enjoyable, but it came as a huge surprised and kindof shocked me :/

 

i also noted that my partner/dom experienced a drastic drop in their emotional state and they have been depressed and anxious all day...unable to get off, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aftercare_%28BDSM%29

There's a page that talks about this a tiny bit. Just wondering if anyone has any advice for me on how to deal with it? Possibly any energetic techniques to prevent this sort of endorphin crash? Normally my partner/dom is -very- sensitive and shy and has problems expressing assertiveness and masculinity...so while this was very attractive to me to have him switch his game up, i believe it may have traumatized him a bit. i am normally the bossy one in our relationship, he has trouble saying no to any requests, so it was as if we both switched roles entirely.

[liminal_luke]

I don't have any answers to your questions, but wanted to salute you for asking them just the same. This kind of thing doesn't get talked about much here, and I think it takes courage to bring it up.

 

Liminal

[BaguaKicksAss]

Such practices and playtime can be an extremely deep and profound experience, especially when you are first trying them out. It tends to take you places that we don't usually go. BDSM works with our primal instincts which we don't normally access. Well also it touches on any repressed stuff we have to do with sexuality, abuse, how we relate to the world in the sense of control, and so on. It can go pretty deep.

 

Yeah the whole aftercare thing is very important, for both people. Also talking, a lot. Stuff will come up, so just being there to support the person and allowing them to open up and talk afterwards is good. Sometimes the Dom will feel bad, or feel like they are an abuser, or if they have been abused before they can sometimes feel (on a subconscious level I mean) feel as though they are the same as that person who hurt them in the past.

 

Yes there can also be an endorphin drop, for both parties actually (not like the energy isn't shared during the entire time). Also there can be an emotional crash.

 

Those nice barriers and walls that we like to keep up, tend to crumble completely during such practices. Well quite often anyways. The level of crumbling is of course dependent on both people and their comfort levels, however, sometimes it can be quite surprising afterwards when everyone comes back to the regular mundane/waking state.

 

As far as energetics go, yes you can go into a very deep altered state. Actually both the Dom and the sub can; however the Dom generally needs to be pretty aware, as the sub might not be thinking coherently at all times.

 

Talking about what you guys like, what your limits are, and all the safety stuff beforehand helps too .

 

I have found that BDSM can be quite excellent for magical practice and ritual. It helps with the altered states, brings the participants out of their regular waking mundane state, and also provides a good deal of juice for the ritual (pun intended and meant in more than one way).

 

Basically it can be treated as any other profound and deep spiritual or ritualistic practice that you do as a couple. The setup and what is done during the time, as well as the meditations and energy work can vary depending on what you are wishing as an outcome for each time.

 

Go slow though and have fun with it. Also if you run into questions or complications, pretty much every town has a local BDSM group for workshops, questions and so forth.

 

[Flolfolil]

I don't have any answers to your questions, but wanted to salute you for asking them just the same. This kind of thing doesn't get talked about much here, and I think it takes courage to bring it up.

 

Liminal

thanks yeah just another one of flo's weird ass threads -> now with 100% less conscious, talking, inanimate objects!

 

as a general rule, i only make threads about things that are very close to my heart and need real guidance for and stay away from posting threads about things i don't -really- care about. this tends to get me pretty upset when they get derailed.

[Flolfolil]

really? over a hundred views and barely any replies?

 

bump....

[Sloppy Zhang]

I mean, for me it comes down to the difference between cultivation paths that emphasize/appreciate catharsis, and those that emphasize more the slow and steady path to exploring, unlocking, and releasing what's there.

 

Some people tend toward catharsis as being necessary to get the stuff "out there." To get stuff moving. In that respect, BDSM, or any intense "trigger" can get the juices flowing, so to speak, and get you to a new and profound state that you can then use as a platform for introspection, meditation, etc. It also gives you a "target," so you can work to getting to that state or being able to work with that state more reliably without that "trigger."

 

Other people, though, can become reliant on that catharsis, and must go to ever increases lengths to keep getting that same rush of catharsis. They become addicts. Or, for other people, too much comes out too quickly. Or they lose their footing, and they spin out of control. Maybe they were already prone to letting things go. Or maybe they don't know what to let go and what shouldn't be let go of just yet.

 

 

I would take it for what it is (no pun intended!... that's a lie I totally intend it) No more, no less.

[Flolfolil]

wow, that is a really helpful post. i can definitely apply that information

[SlowRiot]

Hello there.

I'd like to discuss this topic with other since it has became an important one for me.

I am a 32 years old male in a (happy) relationship. 

 

I have been interested in bdsm for a very long time. In fact, it may seems odd but I remember feeling attracted to it as a child to some extent, like fascination about pictures involving bound or gagged people. I experienced in real life later and enjoyed it. I didnt practice since and I dont currently but im okay with that because there are many other important things working with my so.

 

However,  I always kept a strong attraction toward bdsm and porn eventually became a way for me to "release" my energy, as long as sometime writing bdsm stories.

 

My problem is I really struggle with balancing my daoist / buddhist interest and the kinky one. Speaking about "aftercare" I often find myself calling it quit after "releasing", and feeling kind of  shamed only to end up with the same mindset  and taste for kink they day after.

I don't share these tastes with my gf because I know that she wont like it at all and thats ok, but having to act secretly make me feel kinda lame.

 

Long story short, im looking for any advice about how to live a balanced life.  

I understand daoism is about expressing who you are, but also not indulging in whatever you want at all time, so im confused. Should I try to be strong and overcome my tendencies or try and live with them even ?

[idiot_stimpy]

Quote

 ...like fascination about pictures involving bound or gagged people. 

 

I think one should look at the reason behind why you have a fascination as mentioned in the quote above.

 

Is it an energetic imprint from a past experience? 

 

Try and think back to the earliest memory when you remember having this fascination.

 

If you dream about the fascination, good, look for clues.

 

There is nothing wrong with it, however, instead of this fascination leading you, find out why it wants to lead you in this direction. 

[Immortal4life]

People into that stuff generally have psychological issues and problems. It's sort of a "negotiated" relationship which damages and prevents the chance of things being able to naturally flow and the chemistry and connection to truly develop as it normally would. It's mostly a psychological attachment to sex and stimulation, and certainly not compatable with spiritual development or a spiritual path.

 

I certainly wouldn't recommend getting into an ongoing going thing with a woman with an obsession with that stuff. It'll save you a lot of stress and drama in the end to just cut your losses and keep it very no strings attached and short term if a woman tells you she's into that stuff, whether before or after you have sex with her.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Immortal4life

[ilumairen]

 

2 minutes ago, Immortal4life said:

It's mostly a psychological attachment to sex and stimulation, and certainly not compatable with spiritual development or a spiritual path.

 

A bit like hook up culture in general?

[Immortal4life]

I don't really know what people mean by "hook up" culture,  if it even exists. Sex is a natural thing, if people are attracted to each other one thing has a way of leading to another and flirtation and chemistry are going to occur. There's nothing wrong with sex or "hooking up", and an ongong and deep connection can occur even if two people have sex on the first date or night meeting.

[ilumairen]

13 minutes ago, Immortal4life said:

I don't really know what people mean by "hook up" culture,  if it even exists. Sex is a natural thing, if people are attracted to each other one thing has a way of leading to another and flirtation and chemistry are going to occur. There's nothing wrong with sex or "hooking up", and an ongong and deep connection can occur even if two people have sex on the first date or night meeting.

I was subtly pointing towards your postings in your dating app thread, and how what you said here others could say of what was shared there.

 

And now I will return to just leaving you be.. take care.

[Immortal4life]

They could say it there, but it wouldn't be accurate and would demonstrate a sort of lack of experience with or understanding of the dynamics going on in a dating or sexual context.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Immortal4life

[ilumairen]

50 minutes ago, Immortal4life said:

They could say it there, but it wouldn't be accurate and would demonstrate a sort of lack of experience with or understanding of the dynamics going on in a dating or sexual context.

And you are, by contrast, BDSM experienced and imbued with personal understanding of the dynamics?
 

[liminal_luke]

People tend to generalize from their own experience.  If I eat an all vegetable diet or an all meat diet and dramatically heal some health problem, I´m likely to think that my eating style is right for everyone.  Of course it´s not true.  We all have different bodies and different needs and we react differently to different diets.

 

The same might be true for sexual activities.  Are some practitioners of BDSM stark raving mad?  Undoubtedly.  Are all practitioners of BDSM stark raving mad?  Maybe not.

[forestofclarity]

I would say don't buy into the Judeo-Christian shaming of sex. From a Buddhist perspective, if you are engaging in a safe, consensual relationship with another consenting adult (unlikely to cause harm to others like adultery) then you've met the precept. One issue in this case is that you're hiding it from your girlfriend. Having secrets is a good way to undercut or poison a relationship. In this case, you may want to have a talk with her. You may be surprised what she may be open to. Of course, she may not be open to anything, but if you don't talk to her you'll never know. You could discuss lighter aspects to see how she'd take it. She may even be willing to engage from time to time to make you happy. 

 

Sexuality can be tough because of the pleasure involved. Be careful as neurons that "fire together, wire together" so it is possible to tie pleasure to specific things, through repeated exposure, which I would recommend avoiding. This can develop certain habits and addictions if we're not careful. 

 

Perhaps the most important thing is to bring awareness to whatever you're doing. Usually that will help you develop the wisdom to handle the situation. 

 

On 6/2/2020 at 5:55 AM, SlowRiot said:

My problem is I really struggle with balancing my daoist / buddhist interest and the kinky one. Speaking about "aftercare" I often find myself calling it quit after "releasing", and feeling kind of  shamed only to end up with the same mindset  and taste for kink they day after.

I don't share these tastes with my gf because I know that she wont like it at all and thats ok, but having to act secretly make me feel kinda lame.