The Pictorial View of the Tao Te Ching....?

[ChiDragon]

Edited October 29, 2013 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

大道自然
萬物隨緣
The great Tao is Spontaneous
Let all things follow her path

 

Edited October 29, 2013 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

恒無,欲以觀其妙.
Whenever Tao is invisible, grok its quale.

Whenever Tao is visible, observe its boundary.
恒有,欲以觀其徼.

Edited October 29, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Stosh]

_{Is a path spontaneous?}

_{I think not really , its sort of an oxymoron.}

 

_{Is Tao visible ?}

_{Ummm ...one can infer , but thats really not visible.}

_{and grokking the quale of that which is beyond our ken isnt feasible.}

 

_{If Billy Martin and George Steinbrenner disagreed about trading Lou Pinella ,}

_{I wouldn't have to be Yogi Berra to be aligned with one of them}

Edited October 29, 2013 by Stosh

[Stosh]

RE: Above post , I was either being spontaneous, or making a directed point, or spontaneously making a directed point, or making a direct point in spontaneity.. And I’m either staying on point for the OP or I’m not depending on my subjective opinion. Any of which just depends on how one looks at it, so it’s basically demonstrating a subjective stance, on an objective truth, regarding paths and spontaneity.

‘Paths’ and spontaneity don’t exist outside subjective opinion... thats the objective truth.

[ChiDragon]

道 is Tao. It is not just only a path but Tao can be translated as "path". Path is just a very narrow definition of Tao. Thanks to English, we can spell Tao and tao to distinguish the two. Unfortunately, one has to grok its meaning from the context in the classic. So, when I said "classic", the reader has to grok its meaning as the "ancient Chinese writing".

"Tao" is proper noun.
"tao" can be a path or a principle.

If Tao is spontaneous, then Tao is not path. However, Tao has a path for all things to follow.

A path is always visible. There was no need to grok its quale.

Only Tao can be visible or invisible because Tao is not a path. Tao becomes visible only by the manifestation of the existence of all things. The existence of all things was to manifest that Tao is there but hidden with a high potential power to create. Tao has to be manifested to reveal her existence, at first, in order for her to be invisible. Thus that is why we have to grok its quale when Tao is not visible.

Edited October 29, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Stosh]

Well for one thing that symbol for tao is certainly being presented with different strokes.

Rene's version had a little dude on top of the shelves as well as to the left of it.

Howm I ever supposed to learn chinese if y'all keep switching it up?

Thats three different spellings in four posts !

 

Tao isnt really spontaneous , its absolutely consistent and unchanging.

What changes are the presentations of its manifestation.

 

Im not sure Tao qualifies as a proper noun in english either

 

proper noun

n.

A noun belonging to the class of words used as names for unique individuals, events, or places. Also called proper name.

Tao has to be manifested to reveal her existence, at first, in order for her to be invisible. Thus that is why we have to grok its quale when Tao is not visible.

 

You really should decide whether you want to call Tao a 'she' or an 'it'

we do that sometimes in english for boats, but it really is a grammatical error.

 

Only Tao can be visible or invisible

"Tao has to be manifested to reveal her existence, at first, in order for her to be invisible."

 

I dont know how in classical chinese grammer that stacks up but in english it isnt valid.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Stosh

[ChiDragon]

Stosh.....
Have you ever gone deep into reading the Tao Te Ching yourself; besides reading the various translations and form your own generalization(may not be a proper word for you.. )...???


PS....
We had a thorough discussions about all your doubts in the Tao Te Ching section. This thread is assuming that someone has been following the discussions in the past. I respectfully request not to repeat the lengthy discussions here again.

Edited October 29, 2013 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

I agree with many of the points Stosh is making as some of these ideas are difficult ones to simply consider as just a 'thought for the day'.

 

This special sub-forum area is to discuss in depth topics related to taoist texts.

 

I don't quite understand how you can want to repeat your ideas from the TTC section but he cannot repeat his?

 

If you don't want discussion then I would say this is the wrong forum. The contributed articles section or personal practice area would be more ideal to keep it to just "here is my thoughts" and not engage in a lot of discussion.

[Stosh]

You know the answer to that you ol' linguist you..

The OP was consideration of the statements , and I gave mine.

but no , for the most part I know your sentiments on such stuff

I just popped in to toss a few darts to give an option regarding what I think aint quite right

and we dont have to perpetuate a clash over it.

(Though I obviously agree with Dawei)

Edited October 29, 2013 by Stosh

[ChiDragon]

A Taoist thought does imply that someone need to have some general insights to appreciate it. One can always go to the Tao Te Ching discussion section to refresh one's memory or get some basic idea and come back. Indeed, I do not wish to defend myself for every thought of the day that I've posted. Thank you very much for your interest.

I dont know how in classical chinese grammer that stacks up but in english it isnt valid.

I think that would be a bi-linguistic problem on somebody's part. There is one English speaking member, with no Chinese background, has the prerequisite of the knowledge of the TTC. He has no problem in communication with me. That is a plus in his the contributions to TTB.

[Stosh]

I dont want to get ugly Sayonara

[ChiDragon]

有物混成
Something was formed from chaos



先天地生。
Before Heaven and Earth.




吾不知其名，
強字之曰道。
I don't know it's name.
I reluctantly call it Tao.


For the convenience of description.

Edited October 29, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Marblehead]

I agree with many of the points Stosh is making as some of these ideas are difficult ones to simply consider as just a 'thought for the day'.

 

This special sub-forum area is to discuss in depth topics related to taoist texts.

 

I don't quite understand how you can want to repeat your ideas from the TTC section but he cannot repeat his?

 

If you don't want discussion then I would say this is the wrong forum. The contributed articles section or personal practice area would be more ideal to keep it to just "here is my thoughts" and not engage in a lot of discussion.

Dawei has a valid point. I will request this thread be moved to the "Taoist Discussions" sub-forum.

[ChiDragon]

It is fine with me whatever it takes. Let this thread take it course.

[Marblehead]

The thread is still on course here in "Taoist Discussions".

 

I even like the new title.

 

Can we do 'water' next?

[dawei]

This is the third title ! Talk about an original title not conveying what has unfolded LOL

 

But it is very pictorial indeed.

[Marblehead]

Hey, what's that other thread? A picture is worth a thousand words?

[ChiDragon]

I dont want to get ugly Sayonara

 

You are still a gentleman and a scholar in my book........

 

 

@ all....

Thank you....!!!

[9th]

Hundun had a perfect and permanent life at the center of the world, but was devoid of personal features—he had no face. The kings from the periphery decided to come to the center and do Hundun a favor by giving him a facial shape. They drilled seven holes into his body—the facial openings—and he immediately perished.

[ChiDragon]

道淨若水
Tao is pure like water

Edited October 30, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Marblehead]

Yes, water is always a work in progress.

[Brian]

Water is just water.

 

Water is disinterested in the shape or substance over which it flows or within which it is contained. Water has neither an urge to flow nor a desire to remain motionless, nor concern for change.

 

Water is just water.

[ChiDragon]

上善若水
The most kind(person) is like water




水善利萬物而不爭
Water is good at benefiting all things but not contentious

Edited November 1, 2013 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

處眾人之所惡
Water attain places where people disdain




故幾於道

Thus this is close to the characteristic of Tao

Edited November 1, 2013 by ChiDragon