Relationships: help or hindrance of path

[de_paradise]

Its rare to find someone deeply involved in spritual progress (in the methodical conscious approach as we TB's tend to be) and wanting to be in some kind of relationship, and even if so, the question of being in a relationship with such a person, might be answered with "why even bother?" And so generally speaking we are talking about a relationship with a non-cultivator, or some kind of layperson with some spiritual tendancies, but not really on the path. And although most people are into self-improvement in some form or another, its still likely based on a non-cultivation value system view.

 

The primary objection as I see it is putting yourself in a place where you are actively narrowing down your empathy and love to one being, and that is opposite of putting yourself in that misery position of being alone and reaching for universal empathy. That crappy place of lonliness where nevertheless I have found I can generate quite alot of bliss, and a greater, more stable state of positive emotions, relying upon no one person as object. But if you narrow it down you are creating the emotions (karma) and need, dependence, you might be deluding yourself about your own emotional stability, as it could crumble if that pillar be removed.

 

I would just like to ask those people who have relationships and partners, to explain to me what advantages or learnings, etc they get or gotten from them.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Depends.

 

I would say as a generalization, for men it would be a hindrance, and for women it would be a help.

 

 

In general men must provide psychological, emotional, and financial support, and all of that is energetically draining, not to mention the great deal of yang energy released during coitus.

 

 

For the most part I would say that females would find the most benefit, they are naturally more gifted at working with yin energy..

 

They may be able to find a situation where:

 

1. They are provided for and don't need to work at all and can focus on meditation and training.

 

2. They have access to unlimited source of yang chi.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course this doesn't apply to all relationships and certainly there are cases where the opposite might be true.

Edited October 30, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[hod]

I can't speak on this subject in terms of yin and yang or other such energies, but I can say that until I found my wife, I wasn't a complete person. I didn't know it at the time, but when I found her, I realized I had been missing half of myself and with her, I became a full person. My capacity for love, compassion and cultivation have only increased since then. We are creatures meant to have mates, when you find yours, you will understand. Only the humble opinion of someone who has been in a fully committed relationship for over ten years and has yet to find anything bad about it - only good.

[Spotless]

I would just like to ask those people who have relationships and partners, to explain to me what advantages or learnings, etc they get or gotten from them.

Thank you for starting this post.

 

I have had many fairly long relationships (3yrs+) in my life and finally a very long relationship (12 yrs+) with a son who is now 6+.

All of the relationships awoke me to the areas where I needed to work on myself. Whether it was patience, anger, ego or pacing.

I was also able to observe and learn about the amazing and bizarre yin - the inconcievable yin.

 

I practiced in-your-face testosterone arrogance, adamant-certainty and strong-arm vulgarity - the yin side sands this off of you and leaves you to clean up.

 

Intermixed between most relationships were intense growth spurts on the spiritual side , the first being from about 17 to 22

After that my relationships did have the sort of lopsided level where they did not have much experience in practice - but I found continuing with my practice to be no problem if practice is what I wanted to do.

 

The sexual outlet was a help and not a hinderance for me - in fact I had some very unexpected kundalini experiences.

And - walking in off the spiritual street so to speak and being around the right female is entering a world in a different light and a whole different affection for time, space and skin. It is delightful to become telepathic with another whether they see it or not.

 

I was able to study how others come into my space - where they enter - where they tend to cord - what color they are - how they sound. It was and is interesting to see what a female does in a group of men or just how I react.

 

My son is in present time - or at least - he keeps yanking me back to it.

 

When we had our son I was over 50 - I meditated 3-6 hrs everyday and spoke with him during each sitting before he was born. I continued for about 3 more months, sitting in meditation with him at my side. I was a complete sap. I had never experience complete sap for a prolonged period of time.

 

As children grow they change radically every few weeks - it brings an expansive view to ones life as a parent, as an adult, as a being in this universe. It is a spiritual journey and a grounding one.

 

A relationship can ferret out the fine points of work one needs to do - and when you start to see your partner as you and your child as you and the squirrels and birds in the yard as you, then the relationship begins to be a divine freefall and a practice in presence.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Spotless

[Nikolai1]

A very difficult situation is when you start a relationship before your own practice has really taken off and become serious. But then when it does your partner does not wish to, or is not able to go down the same road.

 

As you become more emotionally grounded, this disparity upsets you less and you perhaps you feel no need to DO anything proactive about it. You find that you just accept the situation and know that trying to force your new worldview on your partner will achieve nothing.

 

So the relationship can continue in a certain fashion. BUT, the truth is that you see and think about the world in completely different ways.

 

My partner represents the common sense world view that I in my practice are busting a gut to move away from. She does not hold me back from formal practice, but her presence in my life obliges me to stay in my pre-practice worldview. Am I held back? I don't know if this is good or bad for me.

 

It results in a tension that is not open acrimony (we are both too emotionally mature for that) but a tension that is still building all the time and surely must need a correction.

 

I would dearly appreciate advice from anyone who has been through the same situation.

[Cheshire Cat]

[...] And so generally speaking we are talking about a relationship with a non-cultivator, or some kind of layperson with some spiritual tendancies, but not really on the path. And although most people are into self-improvement in some form or another, its still likely based on a non-cultivation value system view. [...]

 

 

In the past -before the new age movement and all the magical revivals (Golden Dawn, etc..)- we could say that to have a mate "on the path" would be the best idea...

...but now, -and at least in my country- a woman on the spiritual path is psychologically, emotionally and often physically sick in the 89% of cases (I never never never met the good 11% ... face to face).

 

 

 

Therefore, i think it's much better if the lady is an ordinary person.

 

I share the view of MPG

Edited October 30, 2013 by DAO rain TAO

[C T]

if clinging to a self is predominant in one's daily activities of thinking, speaking and acts, then its not advisable to have a partner for obvious reasons. very often the partner is only used as a masseur or masseuse for one's ego. based on this, no amount of cultivation will work to improve anything because the premise is an incorrect one to begin with.

 

if the clinging is weak or absent altogether, then whether one has a partner (or partners) is neither good or bad because the view has been corrected, and one functions on that basis or at least try to function off that as much as possible. with correct view of reality in place, nothing is a hindrance. its an all-inclusive state of being, no acceptance is needed, no rejection will be felt. just complete and utter openness. from here, the last thing one wants is self-gratification. in fact, the aim becomes one of deep concern for the well-being of the other, whether it be a partner, a friend, a cat, or dog, or an ant-eater.

 

i've had a few very long relationships over the years. first one lasted 7+ years, second one 4+, and now, the third over 5 years already. in the first, it was all self-based, all about me, with lots of disguises to fool the other person into thinking its not. the second one was also the same, to a lesser degree perhaps, but same nonetheless. now, this time, with my current partner (who is half my age) its quite a different place where its at. perhaps the nine years i took commitment to remain single prior to this corrected a lot of stuff which needed much tending to, and this helped.

 

now, with the inner self quite in accord, its good to be in a relationship. i can see the real meaning of having an attitude of devotion, of wanting to make the other person happy, to genuinely wish to do no harm on every level so that the causes for unhappiness are not created. and if these seeds are never planted, then one will never experience the fruits, logically speaking.

 

its not difficult really.

 

right view.

 

thats all.

Edited October 30, 2013 by C T

[hod]

My partner represents the common sense world view that I in my practice are busting a gut to move away from. She does not hold me back from formal practice, but her presence in my life obliges me to stay in my pre-practice worldview. Am I held back? I don't know if this is good or bad for me.

 

It results in a tension that is not open acrimony (we are both too emotionally mature for that) but a tension that is still building all the time and surely must need a correction.

 

I would dearly appreciate advice from anyone who has been through the same situation.

 

In my experience and opinion, only love, openness and understanding can get you through any troubles in a relationship. Love is what gives you the strength to want to overcome whatever is in the way, openness is what allows both people to fully understand how the other feels and understanding allows you to make the compromises and sacrifices that need to be made to get past it.

 

Just my experience - relationships come in many forms and can't be grouped into one homogenous thing. So I'd have to know much more about yours to really know the solution... but there is one, if the love is there.

Edited October 30, 2013 by hod

[Flolfolil]

i am trying to cultivate love and acceptance for all beings. i have a partner. i also fall in romantic love with anyone who is nice to me and not an asshole. i'm potentially on my way into a poly relationship, one girl and one guy. Limiting my compassion? i think NOT. Though, i do energy practices and meditate and my partner(s?) do not. Guess what? My practices rub off on them and advance their development, to the point of my progress giving them inspiration to be able to fight their depression. i throw in some energetic healing for good measure. To wrap this point up, i will leave you with this: If your practice is at all negatively affected by anything external, it is ALL YOUR FAULT. You need to work on yourself, not push people away and call them toxic. If you were really advancing as well as you claim to be, you wouldn't have aversion to integral parts of human experience. If you can't handle loving or being loved, you are a frail, weak person who by the standards of a person who considers themselves very open and happy will NEVER become enlightened. Whatever the hell that means. Hehe

[liminal_luke]

Everything in my life is part of my path. I'm sure I could evolve just fine spiritually being single, but boy does my relationship give me a kick in the pants.

 

Liminal

[Protector]

Sometimes it's better to think about what to give, not what to take

[Brian]

Depends on the relationship.

 

People change in many ways and partners may become closer in some ways while getting farther apart in others.

 

Even when partners' paths diverge, both are still on "their paths" so sometimes it makes no more sense for you to think your partner is on the wrong path than for your partner to think that of you. A disinterested third-party would likely think both of you are lost in the weeds.

 

That said, a partner who is supportive of "your path" can be beneficial while a partner who is not supportive can be detrimental, whatever that path might be (self-discovery, opening a business, learning to dance, becoming an art appraiser, etc.)

 

Speaking directly to your primary objection -- that of limiting your empathy & love by focusing it on one person... I am increasingly aware of the various aspects of life which people frequently & erroneously view as a zero-sum equation. Love is one of them. Love is like music -- just because I've got a tune playing in my head doesn't mean someone else can't, or even that someone else can't have that SAME tune, for that matter. If I sing in my car on the way to work, it doesn't prevent the guy in the car beside me from singing. In fact, it might inspire him to sing, too. The more I sing, the better I get (hopefully) and even if I sing badly, my mother will still like to hear me sing.

 

Love is not a bottle of precious liquid to be used sparingly until it is gone but a bountiful spring to be drunk from freely and shared widely. Drinking from that spring, one becomes infused. Love and empathy for a caring partner increases both one's capacity for and content of love and empathy, for that partner and for others.

[Flolfolil]

my partner is neither supportive nor non supportive of my practice, seems to not put it down or increase my lame self importance

[Brian]

I would view that as being supportive of YOU, flo, which is far more valuable than support for your practice itself.

[Flolfolil]

i was having trouble putting it into words thank you for the help...

[Brian]

There is a marked difference between saying "I have evaluated your new-found desire to learn to play the bassoon and find merit in your prospects for success so I don't object" and saying "I love you and if you want to try the bassoon then it is OK with me."

 

Just don't take it personally when your partner chooses to go to another room while you torture a musical instrument...

 

 

EDIT: Clarification

Edited October 30, 2013 by Brian

[BaguaKicksAss]

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Edited January 12, 2014 by BaguaKicksAss

[BaguaKicksAss]

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Edited January 12, 2014 by BaguaKicksAss

[Spotless]

 

I would just like to ask those people who have relationships and partners, to explain to me what advantages or learnings, etc they get or gotten from them.

Not long ago I began to find our family dinners difficult to deal with.

The conversation was entirely in the future or past. I noted this and asked if we could try to be in the present.

It has been very subtle work - things like asking our son how his day was and his favorite part.

Very normal heathy questions but he is immediately in the past and labeling his preference - judging.

I wanted to be with them in the present - not in tomorrow's plans, not on a review of the day.

This has been a real study.

 

I also noticed we were teaching our son a lot of assessing all the time - basically teaching judgement.

We are working on that.

 

My wife does not practice though she is no novice to world religions and much of the esoteric thinking.

I have always been very open about what I see and do - she has always taken it with a grain of salt - over the years she has come to trust a great deal of my intuition.

 

My wife is very grounded and oddly linear - spontaneity is near impossible - this has beaten down my willing upon someone my inertia and it has shown me a magnet not moved from without.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Spotless

[Taomeow]

In the past -before the new age movement and all the magical revivals (Golden Dawn, etc..)- we could say that to have a mate "on the path" would be the best idea...

...but now, -and at least in my country- a woman on the spiritual path is psychologically, emotionally and often physically sick in the 89% of cases (I never never never met the good 11% ... face to face).

 

Oh, and men on the spiritual path fall under the opposite statistical scenario?.. So comforting to know. It's only women who get fucked up by choosing the spiritual path, or alternatively, the spiritual path is laid down just so as to fuck up only women. Well, we women have it made then. Exemplary specimens of mental, emotional and physical health is all we'll encounter in our endeavor to mate with a spiritually slanted male. Hooray.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Taomeow

[juliank]

Speaking from personal experience my greatest leaps forward in consciousness have been post-relationship. I have been in 4 major ones that lasted a minimum of 2 years each. All my mates were spiritual to some degree and would never formally get in the way of my practice but I found that the structure of relationships over time did erode the time I was spending practicing. I do not blame them, nor do I blame my relationship, I lay the blame squarely on myself. Frankly for me it's an issue of time management.

 

As an example.

 

Wake up. Yoga from 7-9. Off to work 10-8. Get home, unwind and read for an hour. Meditate for 60 minutes and its now 10. Wake up repeat. On my days off I am at school, studying for school or working on my wellness venture.

 

When I was in my relationship guess where the time for the relationship was eating into ? That's right, meditation, yoga, reading or school. These are all things that I require right now in my life. Did I try to have her come to yoga with me ? Of course we did that at times, the same with meditating together. But in my experience my gfs want more than just to meditate or do yoga with you hahah.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think relationships are wonderful things with the right person. But now that I have been retaining for over 100 days and realize how little sex has a hold on me I prefer being alone. To be frank I have never felt more love for others, have advanced more in my spiritual and personal life than during this phase of being single and in retention. Will this change ? Perhaps, but I will let God/Source/Tao make that determination and for now I will continue quietly cultivating, growing and spreading that energy to others in the best way that I can

Edited October 30, 2013 by juliank

[juliank]

A very difficult situation is when you start a relationship before your own practice has really taken off and become serious. But then when it does your partner does not wish to, or is not able to go down the same road.

 

As you become more emotionally grounded, this disparity upsets you less and you perhaps you feel no need to DO anything proactive about it. You find that you just accept the situation and know that trying to force your new worldview on your partner will achieve nothing.

 

So the relationship can continue in a certain fashion. BUT, the truth is that you see and think about the world in completely different ways.

 

My partner represents the common sense world view that I in my practice are busting a gut to move away from. She does not hold me back from formal practice, but her presence in my life obliges me to stay in my pre-practice worldview. Am I held back? I don't know if this is good or bad for me.

 

It results in a tension that is not open acrimony (we are both too emotionally mature for that) but a tension that is still building all the time and surely must need a correction.

 

I would dearly appreciate advice from anyone who has been through the same situation.

 

I have been in this exact situation. Nikolai you show great intelligence and insight in all your posts. I think you already know the answer to your dilemma. My only advice to you would be to be unflinchingly honest about what you need, what she needs and what is the best course from there. Radical and brutal inner honesty is my advice.

[三江源]

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Edited July 25, 2014 by cat

[liminal_luke]

Do we need to be in a relationship with someone following a spiritual path in order to progress spiritually, and grow as a person? I think not. Relationships are magical alchemical cauldrons whose inner workings almost always outstrip our conscious understanding. Fortunately, we don't need to understand to benefit. I'm pretty clueless when it comes to the physiological intricasies of respiration-- yet I still manage to breathe. Being in a relationship is like that. It works even when we don't get how.

 

The cool thing is that we tend to get the partner we need. If we need a partner who thinks more or less like us, and follows a spiritual path, then that's what we'll get. If we'd benefit more from negotiating through the inevitable conflict that comes from seemingly differently life paths...well, the universe is happy to provide that experience as well.

Edited October 31, 2013 by liminal_luke

[Thunder_Gooch]

Oh, and men on the spiritual path fall under the opposite statistical scenario?.. So comforting to know. It's only women who get fucked up by choosing the spiritual path, or alternatively, the spiritual path is laid down just so as to fuck up only women. Well, we women have it made then. Exemplary specimens of mental, emotional and physical health is all we'll encounter in our endeavor to mate with a spiritually slanted male. Hooray.

 

 

I wouldn't say this is true.

 

Most of the spiritual men I meet are retarded newage ***hats. Absolutely the most absurd, limp wristed, inane, people you can imagine.

 

I've only met a few serious students.

 

Most people in general (male and female) are just absurd, stupid, ignorant, horrible individuals.

 

I am not sure this is a men vs women thing, humanity (both male and female) is pretty ****ed up.

Edited October 31, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy