Yin? (yang?)

[BaguaKicksAss]

****Note: when reading this thread, do realize there are some very controversial views on what yin energy is and how to work with it.*****

 

I'm trying to figure out some yin and yang stuff... it is likely I could answer the questions below from a magical standpoint just based on lots of energy vs low energy and perhaps not conducive energy, however the yin/yang aspects of things does not yet make sense to me.

 

Sooooooo apparently yin energy is highly sought after, and also apparently really difficult to come by (at least according to several qigong etc. paths).

 

For starters, does this mean us chicks have it easier?

 

Well at least we don't have to worry about losing jing like the guys.... (though some paths do still recommend we do the 100 day thing at some point).

 

OK, guys lose essence when actually ejaculating... but wouldn't sex with a woman (YIN!) counter that? Apparently not according to most sources, but why not? (I mean regular ol sex, not the fancy lets do the MCO or whatever together type).

 

And... would being around so much yang (a guy) cause any troubles for a woman? Apparently not since women are all hyper after sex (generally) and men tend to go to sleep (stereotypically). I guess some spare yang energy is good?

 

Also, I have found, some partners you end up all hyper, and others you are trashed for a few days after. I have heard this from others too, so apparently both men and women can cause either. Does this related to yin and yang at all?

 

How does that work when 2 women have sex? 2 men?

 

I'm curious about the platonic aspects as well, just 2 people working together. There is definitely a different energy flow with a male and female than with 2 people of the same gender. Some schools emphasize this type of work for the whole polarity thing. It seems to work well.

 

Then the whole merging yin and yang thing.... well it seems like the most pleasant way to do such things :>. However..... I don't see most people who are in sexual relationships as being astounding qigong or neigong masters, so there must be something missing. Also many married male qigong masters seem to avoid sex for 7-10-14-30 (dep on the person and their practices) days with their wife. If one is trying to merge yin and yang... to me it would make logical sense to at least merge it in this manner once in awhile.

 

As an aside, I have noticed that the couples energetic practices do not go as well if the guy has uhm, gone and done so by himself first within the past few days. Is that a lack of yang, or just a lack of energy overall?

 

Also, how does one perceive yin? Yang?

 

I have noticed various energies over the years, but the whole yin and yang thing is very new to me, and still quite confusing.

 

And so in conclusion, the best yin exercise would be to have sex with a man and a woman, on the ground, in a cemetery to gather yin energy? I'm actually curious as to why this is not a good idea. Too much yin? A negative form of yin? I know a heapload of reasons which fall under magic of why this is not a good idea, but I am wondering hypothetically from a purely yin/yang/qigong perspective why not?

 

It would be cool if when replying you say where you got the idea from... for example your teacher, a book, and/or personal experience . This can help me (and anyone else reading) know where to do further research.

 

Edit: On a side note, yes I have read the JAJ sex magic stuff.... but I'm still yin/yang confused....

Edited November 7, 2013 by BaguaKicksAss

[Thunder_Gooch]

For starters, does this mean us chicks have it easier?

From my understanding, yes very much so.

 

Women are vastly better able to work with yin energy, than males. They also have access to an unlimited supply of yang energy if they play their cards right

[Thunder_Gooch]

Also, how does one perceive yin?

You don't, at least until yin and yang have fused as one inside your body. It is not possible, even if a guy who wrote 1000 books says otherwise.

 

Only in the deepest depths of trance is it vaguely possible to move into our yin consciousness.

[BaguaKicksAss]

From my understanding, yes very much so.

 

Women are vastly better able to work with yin energy, than males. They also have access to an unlimited supply of yang energy if they play their cards right

 

LOL that second part made me LOL

 

Keep in mind... quality of Yang energy...

 

er anyways...

 

If this is the case... how come there are not more women neigong and qigong masters? We can just live life and call it good whilt the guys have to work their butts off in hours of martial arts and meditation to keep up? And since it was you that did the reply I can ask.... so why no MP women masters? I don't recall JC mentioning his wife practicing along with him...

 

I do know some neigong couples who do practice together though, hmmmm, I might have to ask them a few personal questions (I have found that martial artists are very open to personal questions and don't take it the wrong way :>)

Edited October 30, 2013 by BaguaKicksAss

[Thunder_Gooch]

 

And so in conclusion, the best yin exercise would be to have sex with a man and a woman, on the ground, in a cemetery to gather yin energy?

Being grounded electrically to the earth at the perineum point will allow you to gather as much yin as you gather yang during meditation.

 

I doubt much would be gathered during sex, other than yang chi which would need to be stored away via meditation as well.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Being grounded electrically to the earth at the perineum point will allow you to gather as much yin as you gather yang during meditation.

 

I doubt much would be gathered during sex, other than yang chi which would need to be stored away via meditation as well.

 

*consults the kama sutra* yeah I guess there are not any positions where both partners would have their perineum in contact with the ground . Though I get the impression that merging instead of focusing on yin would be more the goal.

 

So how come a guy would not collect heaploads of yin while being that connected with a woman? Hell even hugging someone for that matter who is very yin?

[Thunder_Gooch]

 

 

If this is the case... how come there are not more women neigong and qigong masters?

There are only 10 people on earth I would say qualify for the title of master, everyone else is a child in comparison.

 

However I get what you mean. In comparison to a lay person, there are a lot more "advanced" male practitioners than female.

 

This may sound sexist, but I think mainly it's an issue of drive and determination.

 

While women are more naturally gifted they lack (in general) the stick-to-it-tive-ness that males have.

[Thunder_Gooch]

 

*consults the kama sutra* yeah I guess there are not any positions where both partners would have their perineum in contact with the ground . Though I get the impression that merging instead of focusing on yin would be more the goal.

 

So how come a guy would not collect heaploads of yin while being that connected with a woman? Hell even hugging someone for that matter who is very yin?

There may be a release of yin energy during female orgasm. Although it feels great to help someone else enjoy themselves, I've never felt otherwise energetically empowered after helping my partner reach climax while not reaching climax myself.

[Thunder_Gooch]

 

so why no MP women masters?

I remember reading that women who had a child could no longer attempt level 4 fusion in mo pai. I do not remember if this was from a book for from personal discussion with Jim and or students of Kosta however. I do remember reading that. I am unsure of the reasoning behind it.

[BaguaKicksAss]

There are only 10 people on earth I would say qualify for the title of master, everyone else is a child in comparison.

 

However I get what you mean. In comparison to a lay person, there are a lot more "advanced" male practitioners than female.

 

This may sound sexist, but I think mainly it's an issue of drive and determination.

 

While women are more naturally gifted they lack (in general) the stick-to-it-tive-ness that males have.

 

I can think of 3 offhand . Maybe 4. I have also met women who are masters of their art, but not specifically neigong/qigong.

 

Or perhaps the guys just talk about it more and have better promo skills .

 

Do keep in mind you are talking to someone who finds the drive and motivation to work for themselves, practice Bagua, qigong, neigong and jewelry making courses, has run races up mountains (sorry couldn't resist lol).... yes, yes I know you mean in general. I do know several type A women who run their own businesses though, and others who are getting their PHD.

 

I think maybe it just draws more males, sort of like martial arts does. I wonder why that is? With qigong/neigong I mean. I know why martial arts draws less.

[BaguaKicksAss]

There may be a release of yin energy during female orgasm. Although it feels great to help someone else enjoy themselves, I've never felt otherwise energetically empowered after helping my partner reach climax while not reaching climax myself.

 

Oh! I wasn't even thinking about during orgasm! I was more thinking about the entire time that the 2 people are so energetically and physically intermeshed...

[BaguaKicksAss]

I remember reading that women who had a child could no longer attempt level 4 fusion in mo pai. I do not remember if this was from a book for from personal discussion with Jim and or students of Kosta however. I do remember reading that. I am unsure of the reasoning behind it.

 

Hmmmm, some say that each time you have a child, they take some part of your energy with them. Also JAJ goes into amazing detail about parents and children in an energetic sense.

 

Well now you make me want to prove them wrong heh.

 

If (according to some medical qigong folks) you can regrow (energetically at the very least) stuff which has been taken out... then whatever is changed so that one cannot fuse yin and yang, could be changed.

 

No I'm not usually argumentative, I swear LOLOL.

[dawei]

I think maybe it just draws more males, sort of like martial arts does. I wonder why that is? With qigong/neigong I mean. I know why martial arts draws less.

 

Maybe it's just the hunter-gather in us (generalizing of course)... it's the call to 'hunt' in men...

[Wells]

Well at least we don't have to worry about losing jing like the guys....

Heavy jing loss in women:

-period

-pregnancy

 

Ever wondered why some women (as I observed in several cases myself) seem to "bloom" physically during pregnancy....and appear suddenly much aged shortly after giving birth?

Growing another human inside yourself seems to burn up jing like a bush fire!

 

Heavy jing loss for both sexes:

-doing drugs, alcohol, cigarettes,.... pretty much everything that strains your regenerative systems.

-stress

 

=> common pattern and implication: Regrowing of cells depletes your jing / life energy.

 

Also, concerning women and Nei Kung:

I would be pretty careful and not train in tantien related practices during the period (and during pregnancy!) and keep the "72 hours Mo Pai rule" after every period before beginning again with training!

 

 

OK, guys lose essence when actually ejaculating... but wouldn't sex with a woman (YIN!) counter that?

The ejaculation seems not to deplete anything. The regrow of sperm cells however obviously does.

subjective evidence: I experienced several times that I built up a humming and perceptible vibration inside my body due to Nei Kung. This vibration was there all the time for several days. Then I ejaculated. The vibration didn't fade away directly but was still there. But the day after, the vibration was suddenly gone after waking up (obviously the regrow of sperm cells at night "fed" on it!). I waited 72 hours before continuing training and it could take 1 - 2 weeks or more to build up the vibration to a perceptible level again.

 

Another question of interest: All these Nei Kung practices of chinese martial systems were designed for men.

 

So if the tantien has a connection to the reproductive organs, this leads to the question if the tantien in women is perhaps somewhere else, perhaps directly over the ovaries for example.

I read books which claimed that.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Dorian Black

[BaguaKicksAss]

Heavy jing loss in women:

-period

-pregnancy

 

True!

 

For example I've been instructed to do some stuff differently during that time each month.

 

Ever wondered why some women (as I observed in several cases myself) seem to "bloom" physically during pregnancy....and appear suddenly much aged shortly after giving birth?

Growing another human inside yourself seems to burn up jing like a bush fire!

 

Now this is interesting. I can definitely see how that would be the case. It makes me wonder about the folks who say have 7 kids! Not as common here, but in some countries it is sort of the norm, or at least was until recently.

 

Heavy jing loss for both sexes:

-doing drugs, alcohol, cigarettes,.... pretty much everything that strains your regenerative systems.

-stress

 

=> common pattern and implication: Regrowing of cells depletes your jing / life energy.

 

So every surgery you are screwed, at least for a time. Now that would explain an odd personal experience I had...

 

Also, concerning women and Nei Kung:

I would be pretty careful and not train in tantien related practices during the period (and during pregnancy!) and keep the "72 hours Mo Pai rule" after every period before beginning again with training!

 

Fortunately I have been given a women's version of the dantien exercises to do during that time, which works quite well. I didn't realize quite how well (since it seemed to work out exactly the same as the rest of the month) until one day I messed up and forgot to do it in the adapted manner, and it didn't go so well. Though we (in my school) don't wait for 72 after that time, just until it stops (or a day, it depends).

 

The ejaculation seems not to deplete anything. The regrow of sperm cells however obviously does.

subjective evidence: I experienced several times that I built up a humming and perceptible vibration inside my body due to Nei Kung. This vibration was there all the time for several days. Then I ejaculated. The vibration didn't fade away directly but was still there. But the day after, the vibration was suddenly gone after waking up (obviously the regrow of sperm cells at night "fed" on it!). I waited 72 hours before continuing training and it could take 1 - 2 weeks or more to build up the vibration to a perceptible level again.

 

Now that makes perfect sense, thank you for explaining that.

 

Actually I have experienced similar, regarding sex. All that awesome progress and energy, cut in half from just one time *sob*! LOL Felt like 2 weeks were lost in the progress.

 

Another question of interest: All these Nei Kung practices of chinese martial systems were designed for men.

 

So if the tantien has a connection to the reproductive organs, this leads to the question if the tantien in women is perhaps somewhere else, perhaps directly over the ovaries for example.

I read books which claimed that.

 

 

From all I have found, (and from what my teachers have talked about) it is in the same place .

Edited October 30, 2013 by BaguaKicksAss

[Flolfolil]

...

Edited March 6, 2015 by Flolfolil

[BaguaKicksAss]

that's because you have never bottomed for another man i don't even do it to cum... i do it for the massive amount of energy i'm left with afterwards

 

Flo... have you found a difference in energy after with men vs women? I know it depends a lot on each person as an individual, but I mean more overall?

[Aetherous]

I read a women's neidan book...sorry don't recall the title...which said that women are better off using the middle dantian. Because it works with the shen and blood more than the qi and essence of the lower dantian. Could be something to that...but it depends on many things, such as the type of path you're on, the ways that path uses the dantian, etc. For instance, the immortal path of neidan is very different from the self healing path of qigong, or the martial path of neigong...they use the dantian in completely opposite ways sometimes. Basically, there are lots of ideas out there and who knows the complete truth?

As for understanding 'yin and yang'...these are just categories to compare two things. We're trying to use it in the sense of yin energy and yang energy which we theoretically want to merge within. This could be the solar and lunar nadis equalizing and merging into the central channel, could be heavenly and earthly qi combining in the center of the body at the dantian, could be masculine and feminine qualities we want to balance, etc. So that is what we're trying to think of here...

But my finger can be called yin in comparison to my palm, because it's smaller. It could also be called yang in comparison, because it can move around more and do things. So sometimes yin and yang are just ways of comparison, and are meaningless descriptors...they are often not indicative of energies we can use. And other times, they are...for instance, with the earth in mo pai.

So women don't necessarily give men "yin energy" during sex, or increased essence...yin is just how they are physically in comparison to men (smaller, not as strong, no penis, can have babies, etc). It doesn't mean an energy, yin is just a category. They don't necessarily have more essence than men, and they don't necessarily have more capacity for sex than men. Ever see an older woman porn star? In my opinion, they appear to age faster than the average person.

Both men and women can experience increased energy, or diminished energy from sex or simply being around certain people...it's a common occurrence, and is more about the quality of sex (is there true love?) and the individual involved...and I think not so much about the gender.

[Flolfolil]

...

Edited March 6, 2015 by Flolfolil

[BaguaKicksAss]

I tried to like this one 3 times

 

I read a women's neidan book...sorry don't recall the title...which said that women are better off using the middle dantian. Because it works with the shen and blood more than the qi and essence of the lower dantian. Could be somethI trtal path of neidan is very different from the self healing path of qigong, or the martial path of neigong...they use the dantian in completely opposite ways sometimes. Basically, there are lots of ideas out there and who knows the complete truth?

 

Now that sounds interesting . Perhaps for some things, some of the time? Well in the other thread on here I think folks are still going back and forth, many pages later, about what and where the dantien is... in just a regular sense... so this definitely adds some complexity to things! If you remember the book let me know.

 

As understanding 'yin and yang'...these are just categories to compare two things. We're trying to use it in the sense of yin energy and yang energy which we theoretically want to merge within. This could be the solar and lunar nadis equalizing and merging into the central channel, could be heavenly and earthly qi combining in the center of the body at the dantian, could be masculine and feminine qualities we want to balance, etc. So that is what we're trying to think of here.....

 

But my finger can be called yin in comparison to my palm, because it's smaller. It could also be called yang in comparison, because it can move around more and do things. So sometimes yin and yang are just ways of comparison, and are meaningless descriptors...they are often not indicative of en...ergies we can use. And other times, they are...for instance, with the earth in mo pai

So women don't necessarily give men "yin energy" during sex, or increased essence...yin is just how they are physically in comparison to men (smaller, not as strong, no penis, can have babies, etc). It doesn't mean an energy, yin is just a category. They don't necessarily have more essence than men, and they don't necessarily have more capacity for sex than men. Ever see an older woman porn star? In my opinion, they appear to age faster than the average person.

Both men and women can experience increased energy, or diminished energy from sex or simply being around certain people...it's a common occurrence, and is more about the quality of sex (is there true love?) and the individual involved...and I think not so much about the gender.

 

The nadis thing makes sense .

 

I was thinking... when getting that close with another person, there is definitely a LOT of energy mingle and merging. During and even afterwards each person has a bit of the other's energy merged with theirs... And women most definitely have a different energy than men.... so I figured, perhaps all that extra woman energy would give the man a ying boost! (and a woman a yang boost from a man).

 

That whole finger and hand thing... now that's where it gets confusing and my brain hurts . This is also how most books seem to go into it. Whole people and major energies seem easier to grasp lol. I sort of understand it though, but have never felt a different energy from my fingers than I do my palms.. (not that I have looked either I guess).

 

That makes sense about the quality and the individual people than the gender.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Everyone is killing my one theory about how to come by yin (or yang) energy, or merge the two lol,

 

I guess if just hanging around women increased one's yin, everyone could just go to yoga classes each week... Or to increase the yang energy, go to most gyms each week...

[Wells]

That whole finger and hand thing... now that's where it gets confusing and my brain hurts .

 

Earth is yin if compared to the sun. But it's yang compare to a black whole.

Water is yin compare to steam. But it's yang compared to ice.

Chi is yang compared to Jing. But it's yin compared to Shen.

 

Yin and Yang are foremost abstract and relative concepts, at least in common chinese understanding.

[Wells]

Everyone is killing my one theory about how to come by yin (or yang) energy, or merge the two lol,

 

LOL!

Ultimate way to become yang: Fly into the sun!

Ultimate way to become yin: Fly into a black hole!

Ultimate way to merge yin & yang: Fly into a black hole swallowing a sun!

[BaguaKicksAss]

LOL!

Ultimate way to become yang: Fly into the sun!

Ultimate way to become yin: Fly into a black hole!

Ultimate way to merge yin & yang: Fly into a black hole swallowing a sun!

 

I'll work on that .

[BaguaKicksAss]

Pg 155 of JAJ's Daoist nmagical transformation skills book gives a handy chart about yin/ya/fng; male/female; energy/form... then down to the yin within yang, yin within yin.. and so forth, in the chapter on sexual alchemy. It might take me a few reads to make sense of this chapter... Interesting nonetheless .

 

Though I think I'll just go sit out at night on the ground under a new moon and call it good!