Yin? (yang?)

[Jeff]

Hmmm, this thread is getting a little... tense.... I recommend everyone go test out my dual cultivation yin/yang theories, with their s/o (or random stranger even), presented on page 1 before further posting .

Hi Bagua,

 

Regarding your dual cultivation concept, I would definitely agree. In describing the two types of the energy, I think the easiest way to think about it is the difference between "holding" and "being held". One does not notice the being held in the absence of someone holding unless one Is very advanced. You can also think of the being held energy like "surrender".

 

The dual cultivation loop does not require sex, but that is the most common way people come to it. People tend to forget that tantric originally meant energy practices. To get the loop going it requires that both parties are open at least to the heart. The most common flow is male 2nd chakra to female 2nd. The woman then "raises" the sexual energy to the heart and radiates it back to the man, who loops it back down so that the loop can form. More advanced spiritual practicioners can take it to the higher chakras (Dan tiens).

[Taomeow]

Can you attempt to give us a better idea of how the feeling of yin felt - feels? (In common terms - I don't know half the words used in this section that are not traditional english ones - thanks

 

Thanks for asking.

 

So, OK, picture a shamanic ayahuasca ceremony in the depth of the Amazonian rainforest, at night. The air is suffused with moisture, which does not sap you of energy unlike our common "humidity" because its oxygen content is much higher, the air feels very different from what you're used to, it is charged with possibilities, is the best way I can describe it. It is more strongly "there," not in an intrusive way like strong wind but as something almost as substantial as water, only you can breathe it -- and it also makes it easy to remember how you did breathe water once, in the womb, in the primal ocean. It's air that has yin, lots of it. It sets the scene.

 

It's pitch black, the ceremony takes place in complete darkness. You are not allowed to strike a match or use a flashlight. There's a reason for this. The physical reason is that ayahuasca of sufficient potency temporarily suspends communication between your light receptors and your visual cortex, in other words your eyes stop talking to your brain. This lasts for about 20 minutes, but you don't want to freak out if you turn on the light and see that you can't see it. Freaking out is not a good idea. For the rest of the time, the nonphysical reason is that you want to go into the depth of yin -- there, you will see true yang arising, born of true yin (well, there's no way to avoid the special terms here, sorry... ...yin and yang are not interchangeable with any other concepts, much like you are not interchangeable with me. I'll do better with other terms I hope.) So any light you might see that does not arise out of the depth of this fertile darkness is false, superficial -- and it will interfere with the true one.

 

In complete darkness, things start happening -- if you can call it that, it's not "happening" in any yang sense, it's coming into the depth of the hidden, or rather being pulled there. The hidden things do not become "visible" in the visual sense, not at this point -- instead, perceptions kick in that are usually blunted and shut down by visual input and by the habit of interpreting non-visual input visually. Many people "visualize" things, not many bring stuff out of nonexistence by other means. These other means are now going strong. Most of them are not possible to put into words, but one becomes prominent and surprises the hell out of me: the spacial directions of life and death. Never before did I believe that the "left hand path" and the overall cautions against things "to the left of center" have a basis in reality. But they do -- to the left lies death, nonexistence that is much more complex than any "just nothing there" can be, it's not nothing, it's not something, it's a sweeping pull, the whole world is falling to the left like sand in an hourglass, unstoppable. The sand of dark nonexistence pulls you deeper. Nothing bad is happening to you, but the terror of falling into the ultimate unknown stops your heart. And it is not yin, death is not yin. It is dynamic. It's a pull, it moves, it's a swirling necessity, resistance is futile. For a mere confused mortal, that is.

 

Then the shaman notices I'm pulled into the dark nothing of death and builds a stable (yin) bridge for me to come back. He uses a rattle to make sound, tobacco smoke to align along the waves of the sound, and the smell of aqua florida which he had me smell before the ceremony and remember, so now I know what for. He uses these three yang phenomena to flip into yin and stabilize into a bridge. Together they form a something within the nothing, a very ephemeral bridge that goes to the right, over and through the dark left-slanted nothing. I -- my consciousness -- use the bridge to come back. This happens in the first hour. There's many more hours of yin explorations ahead of me. I was in true yin for three weeks nonstop. So it would be hard to write a post about that... She suggested that I write "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Ayahuasca," but I'm sure she was being sarcastic, or at least humorous.

 

At one point I was taken to the yin core of the sun... That was the single scariest event of my entire life. I chickened out of it, and begged Her to take me back to earth or even the underworld (been there too, there's tons of yang creatures trapped there, incidentally, in case anyone's been wondering), the yin of the sun, the true dark sun, was just too overwhelming.

 

Another thing that became clear. Thoughts all go to the left. Thoughts are the force that pulls the world to the domain of death. They are like steps, one step at a time you go there all your life. All your life's energy gets dragged there, yin and yang alike. The senses that reveal this are not normally present, not in any state I'd ever experienced before (and I've been around the block before.)

 

So, that's a glimpse of the Dark Mother for you... She has everything, and light is one of her babies...

 

So, there's many many levels of perceiving yin, and to say it is "feeling a certain energy" is perhaps partially true for some situations, but mostly it's not "feeling" and not "energy" -- it's "being it" that reveals what it is... nothing short of that, really. But it leaves you with a pattern of recognition, so every glimpse of true yin you get, you know, been there, been that. And this feels awesome.

[Spotless]

I do want everyone to know that you do not have to be one of the most powerful people on the planet to see an aura with your eyes wide open during the day with your clothes on and wide awake. (Or my wife is hugely mistaken about me)

 

In the first cases of seeing an aura with my eyes wide open it was at night and it was my fingers and hands and I was checking to see if I could see my aura frequently - and finally I did. But for some that could clearly be taken as a delusional and highly questionable viewing.

 

The first time i saw an aura during the day was outside of a building on a well sunlight day. I was in a very clear and awake space when a friend got out of a car nearby and came over to me to tell me that i needed to get the rest of my payment in for a group trip by Friday or I would loose my $500 deposit.

 

I informed her that i was an exception to that and not to worry - that i had worked that out with the director/founder.

She then insisted that that was null and that I needed to get the balance in by Friday and she began walking towards the stairs to the building. At that point her aura became visible out to about 3 or 4 inches - a beautiful clear crystalline red!

I calmly said that was not the case - at almost the exact instant that i saw her aura - i immediately must have smiled or brightened up because she was looking over at me and then her Aura doubled in its extension from her body - as though what ever was on my face infuriated her.

 

I want all of you to know that while the seeing of an aura in broad daylight while unmistakably clear headed and fully refreshed and awake was extremely exciting - what i took away to this day that was more remarkable to my awareness was that she did not throw energy at me, she contained her rage fully within her space. Not only did she contain it but she did it in clear clearing energy - no black spikes, no ruble from the head, just a clear bright red rush in her space. It became a level of neutrality i strove to emulate, it was really pretty incredible.

 

I do not see auras all the time with my eyes open - most of the time it is a surprise.

I can see them anytime with my eyes closed.

 

The last time i saw an aura with my eyes open and rhis may be cheating because it was not actually an aura but rather a persons energy was during a Qi Gong class with my master. He is a 6th generation Qi Gong & Kung Fu Grand Master from Shaolin Temple.

 

It was in a class of about 12 of us starting at 5:30 pm on a Wednesday.

I was directly in front of him and I was lucky enough to be looking at him when he popped a fairly thick white with a slight bluish tinge of what I assume to be Qi energy off his fingers directly in front of me about 5 feet away. The puff stayed visible for a few moments and was about the size of a deflated balloon.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Spotless

[Spotless]

Thanks for asking.

 

So, OK, picture a shamanic ayahuasca ceremony in the depth of the Amazonian rainforest, at night. The air is suffused with moisture, which does not sap you of energy unlike our common "humidity" because its oxygen content is much higher, the air feels very different from what you're used to, it is charged with possibilities, is the best way I can describe it. It is more strongly "there," not in an intrusive way like strong wind but as something almost as substantial as water, only you can breathe it -- and it also makes it easy to remember how you did breathe water once, in the womb, in the primal ocean. It's air that has yin, lots of it. It sets the scene.

 

It's pitch black, the ceremony takes place in complete darkness. You are not allowed to strike a match or use a flashlight. There's a reason for this. The physical reason is that ayahuasca of sufficient potency temporarily suspends communication between your light receptors and your visual cortex, in other words your eyes stop talking to your brain. This lasts for about 20 minutes, but you don't want to freak out if you turn on the light and see that you can't see it. Freaking out is not a good idea. For the rest of the time, the nonphysical reason is that you want to go into the depth of yin -- there, you will see true yang arising, born of true yin (well, there's no way to avoid the special terms here, sorry... ...yin and yang are not interchangeable with any other concepts, much like you are not interchangeable with me. I'll do better with other terms I hope.) So any light you might see that does not arise out of the depth of this fertile darkness is false, superficial -- and it will interfere with the true one.

 

In complete darkness, things start happening -- if you can call it that, it's not "happening" in any yang sense, it's coming into the depth of the hidden, or rather being pulled there. The hidden things do not become "visible" in the visual sense, not at this point -- instead, perceptions kick in that are usually blunted and shut down by visual input and by the habit of interpreting non-visual input visually. Many people "visualize" things, not many bring stuff out of nonexistence by other means. These other means are now going strong. Most of them are not possible to put into words, but one becomes prominent and surprises the hell out of me: the spacial directions of life and death. Never before did I believe that the "left hand path" and the overall cautions against things "to the left of center" have a basis in reality. But they do -- to the left lies death, nonexistence that is much more complex than any "just nothing there" can be, it's not nothing, it's not something, it's a sweeping pull, the whole world is falling to the left like sand in an hourglass, unstoppable. The sand of dark nonexistence pulls you deeper. Nothing bad is happening to you, but the terror of falling into the ultimate unknown stops your heart. And it is not yin, death is not yin. It is dynamic. It's a pull, it moves, it's a swirling necessity, resistance is futile. For a mere confused mortal, that is.

 

Then the shaman notices I'm pulled into the dark nothing of death and builds a stable (yin) bridge for me to come back. He uses a rattle to make sound, tobacco smoke to align along the waves of the sound, and the smell of aqua florida which he had me smell before the ceremony and remember, so now I know what for. He uses these three yang phenomena to flip into yin and stabilize into a bridge. Together they form a something within the nothing, a very ephemeral bridge that goes to the right, over and through the dark left-slanted nothing. I -- my consciousness -- use the bridge to come back. This happens in the first hour. There's many more hours of yin explorations ahead of me. I was in true yin for three weeks nonstop. So it would be hard to write a post about that... She suggested that I write "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Ayahuasca," but I'm sure she was being sarcastic, or at least humorous.

 

At one point I was taken to the yin core of the sun... That was the single scariest event of my entire life. I chickened out of it, and begged Her to take me back to earth or even the underworld (been there too, there's tons of yang creatures trapped there, incidentally, in case anyone's been wondering), the yin of the sun, the true dark sun, was just too overwhelming.

 

Another thing that became clear. Thoughts all go to the left. Thoughts are the force that pulls the world to the domain of death. They are like steps, one step at a time you go there all your life. All your life's energy gets dragged there, yin and yang alike. The senses that reveal this are not normally present, not in any state I'd ever experienced before (and I've been around the block before.)

 

So, that's a glimpse of the Dark Mother for you... She has everything, and light is one of her babies...

 

So, there's many many levels of perceiving yin, and to say it is "feeling a certain energy" is perhaps partially true for some situations, but mostly it's not "feeling" and not "energy" -- it's "being it" that reveals what it is... nothing short of that, really. But it leaves you with a pattern of recognition, so every glimpse of true yin you get, you know, been there, been that. And this feels awesome.

 

Thank you - particularly loved the first paragraph - it took me there...

 

I appreciate your careful use of terms and yin and yang are no problem but I would appreciate a more sublet explanation of your use of the concept of "left".

I remember that many years ago it had a very specific esoteric meaning to me but that seems like a past life to me now.

 

You should definitely write and the Idiot's guide would sell

 

(I did Ayahuasca once in a very fine setting in Marin Cal with a very famous actress and a small group. I enjoyed it)

 

[Wu Ming Jen]

A quick read of practical Taoism will clear up all the confusion and mis information on this thread as concerned with alchemy. Any system that relates sperm or menstruation as Jing a temporary and physical substance can not even begin to enter the real we need to get rid of the false first... physical, temporary and changing manifestations and settle the mind which is like an eye even a small piece of dust causes irritation same with mind.

 

When dust is blowing about we shut the eyes, who can shut their mind so they can see clearly? Good luck..

[Spotless]

Regarding seeing:

 

It is a misconception and one put forth in one of the last posts regarding shutting the mind and seeing:

 

If you are able to observe something clearly then you can become quite disengaged from the mind as you simply observe.

This is particularly true of moving things.

 

You can also be looking at something like an Escher sketch and suddenly it transforms.

It might be that you are convinced that nothing else is there and then ahhhh - you see.

 

It could be that the person above is claiming that you can never see it clearly - but the question then is - do you ever see anything clearly?

It is certainly possible to see a great may "invisible" things with great certainty and I have no doubt that someday many of those things will turn out to be like the Escher sketch - but if you look at an Escher sketch it can be seen clearly in at least three ways all of which are completely correct.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Spotless

[BaguaKicksAss]

Hmmmmm, I just thought of something... yes usually sitting still, esp asana like is best... however, Bagua, in other words moving also works amazingly well for seeing some very interesting things, and some very odd occurances! That is some very specific movement though, and with one's mind not in the regular state.

[Wu Ming Jen]

I would agree that sexual vitality and vitality are not separate..Jing is simply one of the three treasures we are born with, it comes from non being to cultivate this increases our chi and learning not to waste this energy on temporary things. Energy turns back to vitality during sex.

 

Non being, being we enter the primal not concerned with life or death and definitely not holding on to stagnate energies from semen retention.

 

The whole mess is an affliction that keeps one from entering the real. The medicine is produced with the tranquil calm mind devoid of self image or ego gains. To become POWERFUL is a major affliction right there.How can one begin the true training?

 

When there is separation of self and others the mind ground is not ready for planting the seeds of immortality.

[Wu Ming Jen]

Observation is key, eliminate the modes of the discerning mind not the shinning mind.Confusion becomes more confused in a blink of the eye. If you have something on your mind how can you observe things?.

[Wu Ming Jen]

Calm mind, moving body sounds like medicine in motion as referred to by the Harvard Medical Research Dept.on forms like Tai Chi and Ba Gua. .a pun on moving meditation..

[silent thunder]

...

 

 

 

Lot's of people claim lots of things, and lots of people claim they know better than the most advanced beings on earth, doesn't make it so.

 

...

 

I might be confused, but it seems like you are claiming things like... only one human in seven billion is able to see auras?

[Ish]

John Chang said he could only see the "DEEPEST" level of their aura at maximum power, even people with low cultivation can see energy, just depends on the person.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Ish

[Thunder_Gooch]

I do want everyone to know that you do not have to be one of the most powerful people on the planet to see an aura with your eyes wide open during the day with your clothes on and wide awake. (Or my wife is hugely mistaken about me)

I'd have to say your wife is mistaken. People may believe they see something, I am not questioning that. I am saying they are mistaken.

Edited November 4, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[Thunder_Gooch]

 

I might be confused, but it seems like you are claiming things like... only one human in seven billion is able to see auras?

Maybe 10, but you got the general gist of it.

Edited November 1, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[Thunder_Gooch]

 

You constantly quote from a book

I can't quote myself as my opinion on the matter holds no authority.

Edited November 1, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[Thunder_Gooch]

You learned Jim McMillan’s version of neigong training (that is, if the information posted on this forum is actually Jim’s instructions) which has already been pointed out as being ‘different’ to the actual method.

Jim wasn't my only teacher, I have also spoken to students of Kosta.

 

I honestly believe I have a good grasp on level one as it was actually taught.

 

If I am misguided or deluded or whatever else... so be it.

 

I believe I have done my absolute best to understand what Chang taught his students.

Edited November 1, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[Thunder_Gooch]

and actually got out into the world and experienced things

I know what I experience via my own training, yet I lack the authority to quote myself on such.

 

I usually keep my own observations and experiences to myself.

Edited November 1, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[Thunder_Gooch]

It is just an unfortunate fact that I end up having to go on about my limited experience to counter the constant ‘truths’ uttered by some that simply have no experience.

It's not that I don't have experience mjj, it's that I don't talk about it. No one here would believe it, it would only stand to discredit me, so there is no point in talking about it.

 

What I understand about people not being able to directly perceive yin energy during normal waking conscious is correct.

 

That's based on my own observation.

Edited November 1, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[Taomeow]

Thank you - particularly loved the first paragraph - it took me there... I appreciate your careful use of terms and yin and yang are no problem but I would appreciate a more sublet explanation of your use of the concept of "left". I remember that many years ago it had a very specific esoteric meaning to me but that seems like a past life to me now. You should definitely write and the Idiot's guide would sell (I did Ayahuasca once in a very fine setting in Marin Cal with a very famous actress and a small group. I enjoyed it)

 

Thank you too, Spotless.

Regarding "left" -- I think it has to do with the structure of deep reality.

 

What taoists call wuji, primal unity, tao-in-stillness, gets a first impulse of motion from the third trigram... (sorry... a trigram is an arrangement of three original forces of creation. The number of these original forces is eight, the Eight Trigrams, aka bagua. Each of them is comprised of three yin or yang "portions" -- two of them are, respectively, all yin and all yang, then one is two yang and one yin, then one is two yin and one yang, and there's also a sequence to the appearance of yin and yang in each trigram, i.e. the one with two yang and one yin can have yin appear first, followed by two yang, and another with two yang and one yin can have yin sandwiched between two yang... it's better illustrated by the diagram of the Eight Trigrams, which can then be analyzed in depth for the rest of one's taoist life. )

 

Now then, directions of wuji, primal unity, are not arbitrary, they are inherent in the structure of deep reality. True yin, North, is below and true yang, South, is above. (Yang ascends, yin descends.) This reflects in our manifest world's arrangement with the sun above and the earth below, and in scores of its other spacial peculiarities. So, original Thunder strikes in the East (which happens to be on the left since North is below and South above -- unlike on our Western maps where the world is topsy-turvy). It sets the three forces in their eight arrangements in motion, and the motion unfolds in what appears to be a circle but is really a spiral. The spiral goes clockwise, to the right, and unfolds the cycle, brings Spring, then Summer, etc.. This is tao-in-motion, taiji. This is the manifest world -- life.

 

To roll it back into non-manifestation, the opposite spiral folds it all in, the counterclockwise one. It swirls to the left. Nonordinary states, one of which I described, can make one aware of these "massive dynamics." That's what happened to me -- all the concepts were a later afterthought, the original thing was just sheer perceptions. I wasn't thinking anything while I was perceiving this, I was using one of the abilities of the moment -- uncommon sense.

Edited November 1, 2013 by Taomeow

[mjjbecker]

IMO... that was an unnecessary plug... as he was more than novice... if you can detach and read what he wrote, he is incredulous at what he is reporting and writing... ergo, he has trained his whole life in something yet unprepared for what he found himself in.

 

This is a great lesson to be learned about the so-called practices chasers... (Not about you but there is a moral to this story for practitioners beyond the story).

 

Er, no. Cat commented that John Chang was speaking to a novice. Indeed he was, but I clarified the point. The audience in this case is not the literary construct of 'Kosta Danaos' (which the character in the book was-you'd know that if you'd followed Kostas' comments on the matter) but the reader.

 

And if you had paid attention to what I wrote, instead of trying to score points, you'd have noticed the bit about how the book was written in a specific manner for a specific audience and purpose, and that it was not about the 'practices'.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I can't quote myself as my opinion on the matter holds no authority.

 

Actually personally, I'm the type of person who prefers to hear of personal experience . So feel free.

[dawei]

Feel free to list your achievements and published works, and we'll compare them to Kostas':

 

http://pammachon.gr/index.php/en/about-kostas-en

please... more childishness... comparing whose is bigger?

 

Your really not like this.. or so I thought.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Hi Bagua,

 

Regarding your dual cultivation concept, I would definitely agree. In describing the two types of the energy, I think the easiest way to think about it is the difference between "holding" and "being held". One does not notice the being held in the absence of someone holding unless one Is very advanced. You can also think of the being held energy like "surrender".

 

The dual cultivation loop does not require sex, but that is the most common way people come to it. People tend to forget that tantric originally meant energy practices. To get the loop going it requires that both parties are open at least to the heart. The most common flow is male 2nd chakra to female 2nd. The woman then "raises" the sexual energy to the heart and radiates it back to the man, who loops it back down so that the loop can form. More advanced spiritual practicioners can take it to the higher chakras (Dan tiens).

 

OK, that makes sense.

 

Good point, yes just two people. I think maybe because folks are just more comfortable being this completely open with someone they are sexually intimate with already, so a good level of openness already there.

[BaguaKicksAss]

It's more like this:

 

I say gold is a yellow metal, that is very rare, very dense, and very heavy.

 

All these people are holding up brass and saying look it's GOLD!!!!

 

I am saying no it's not gold because it lacks the density and volume that gold has.

 

You can weigh it, and see how much water it displaces and figure out if it is real gold or not.

 

Archimedes was said to have had a eureka moment over this.

 

Still these people are insisting NO ITS A YELLOW METAL THIS IS GOLD!

 

That's more akin to the situation.

 

*Walks up with some platinum* .

[BaguaKicksAss]

A quick read of practical Taoism will clear up all the confusion and mis information on this thread as concerned with alchemy. Any system that relates sperm or menstruation as Jing a temporary and physical substance can not even begin to enter the real we need to get rid of the false first... physical, temporary and changing manifestations and settle the mind which is like an eye even a small piece of dust causes irritation same with mind.

 

When dust is blowing about we shut the eyes, who can shut their mind so they can see clearly? Good luck..

 

Thank you, it is definitely on my to read list now. I have heard very good things about it before too.