Yin? (yang?)

[Wells]

Are there any organisms like bacteria which live for example somewhere in the upper athmosphere, so we could assume that there is life without yin chi?

 

How about life deep in earth or at the ground of the ocean? Does these life forms possess yang chi?

[Wells]

Space anomalies, conspiracy theories, but staying on topic?

No problem for Dorian Black!

 

How about the so called "2nd space phenomenon"? Obviously ultrafast flying small life forms, living in earth's orbit and therefore ONLY on Yang Chi!

This phenomenon was reported also by various astronauts which called them "fireflies" and thought that these are living critters!

These fireflies even came into the locks with the astronauts, but flew out before closing.

On the still frames, you see they flie in curves! No dead body or particle flies in curves!

 

[Wells]

Ha, this is the video about the "fireflies" I was searching for!

Listen to the astronauts words when they fly into the airlock of the shuttle with them!

 

"I saw 'em too!"

"There were two of them!"

 

Edited November 5, 2013 by Dorian Black

[Aetherous]

I bet that paying attention to high tides would be like an advanced form of working with the moon phase:
http://www.moonconnection.com/tides.phtml

[Brian]

Are there any organisms like bacteria which live for example somewhere in the upper athmosphere, so we could assume that there is life without yin chi?

 

How about life deep in earth or at the ground of the ocean? Does these life forms possess yang chi?

Like this, for instance?

http://www.marianatrench.com/mariana_trench-biology_001.htm

 

EDIT: Or this?

http://www.airplants.com/Cart.asp?Task=Get_Category&Category=Airplants

Edited November 5, 2013 by Brian

[xor]

Are there any organisms like bacteria which live for example somewhere in the upper athmosphere, so we could assume that there is life without yin chi?

 

No comment on other things, but here's some food for thought:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/10321227/Alien-life-found-living-in-Earths-atmosphere-claims-scientist.html

[ChiDragon]

Is the Moon yin compared to a black hole?

Is the Sun yang compared to a supernova (see pic)?

 

 

The attribute of the moon was compared to the Sun. It is Yin is because the Moon is passive and the Sun is active. The phase of the Moon is depending on the light source from the Sun.

[Wells]

Like this, for instance?

http://www.marianatrench.com/mariana_trench-biology_001.htm

 

EDIT: Or this?

http://www.airplants.com/Cart.asp?Task=Get_Category&Category=Airplants

 

Yep, like the deep sea fishes.

 

Well, the "airplants" don't float in the air all the time without ever touching the ground.

So we can't postulate the assumption that they don't get yin chi somehow.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Dorian Black

[Brian]

It is not uncommon for airplants (and many other things like mosses, fungii and lichens, for instance) to live their entire lives without coming in direct contact with the surface of the Earth itself, and I've never seen one with a metal wire attached...

 

On the other hand, there are plenty of bacteria that are anaerobic and need never come in contact with sky or oxygen.

[Thunder_Gooch]

 

So that is just yin, not a combination at all?

 

 

In the video with Jim and John, John creates a dense yin energy field which allows Jim to force yang energy out of his body. The dense field of yin acts like a conduit for the yang energy to flow through.

 

Normally yang energy can only leave the confines of your body if a conduit like metal is present or via direct physical contact with another person.

 

Yin energy very weakly interacts with the physical world, making it virtually imperceptible, however if dense enough it can act as a conduit for yang energy which can interact with the physical world.

 

When yin and yang energy are fused as one inside the body then it can leave the body at will and interact with the environment as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And the qi balls that we make (some of us anyways) are those yin, or? I've never looked into it that closely.

 

 

 

I would bet money if anything it is a yang only phenomenon, even then perhaps 90% imagination for most people.

 

Virtually no one on earth works with yin chi.

 

 

 

 

 

 

However I mean a practitioner who practices daily their entire lives

So am I. Virtually no one on earth fuses their yin and yang energies before death. They are left in the same state a mundane person is, their yang energy scatters to the wind and what is left behind is a burnt out shell of their former self.

 

 

 

 

Well OK or a high level MoPai person

Kosta says level 30 to truly be considered a hsien, another source (perhaps unreliable) told me 37.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are there any organisms like bacteria which live for example somewhere in the upper athmosphere, so we could assume that there is life without yin chi?

 

How about life deep in earth or at the ground of the ocean? Does these life forms possess yang chi?

 

 

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-06/bacteria-33000-feet

 

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20827874.800-life-is-found-in-deepest-layer-of-earths-crust.html

 

http://sciencenordic.com/bacteria-thrive-bottom-mariana-trench

 

All life is the interplay of yin and yang energies, without yang we are dead, without yin we couldn't exist.

Edited November 6, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[BaguaKicksAss]

We were talking a bit about grounding wires, copper wires, electricity and so forth, then physics.

 

Along a slightly related note, has anyone else worked with orgone energy and/or radionics? The principals seem quite similar o me.

[xor]

So how does the life that never comes down to Earth collect "mp yin qi"? Because without it they would be dead, right? Yin being the container without which yang has no reference frame. These gaps and breaks make having a certainty about these theoretical things seem strange to me although they are good for contemplation purposes. I would say this is more about efficiency in process than a strict law about connection. Grounding is easily achieved barefoot(or bare butt as the case may be) touching Earth and maybe for a powerful practice that requires alot of balance it becomes a necessity atleast for a beginner.

Edited November 6, 2013 by xor

[Thunder_Gooch]

So how does the life that never comes down to Earth collect "mp yin qi"? Because without it they would be dead, right? Yin being the container without which yang has no reference frame.

The physical matter in your body itself is yin we are called yang beings because of the energy that animates us.

 

To be honest I don't know about the bacteria in the upper atmosphere and how they get yin chi, perhaps the same way cacti get water in the desert?

 

I wouldn't think that JC's yin chi goes away when he is in an airplane, so perhaps whatever it is these microbes "eat" came from the earth and has just enough yin qi to sustain them.

Edited November 6, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[BaguaKicksAss]

So like during sword practice?

 

Hmmm, or during martial arts sparring for that 2nd part? Orrrr, *looks at cultivation thread...* ?

 

Normally yang energy can only leave the confines of your body if a conduit like metal is present or via direct physical contact with another person.

[BaguaKicksAss]

 

So am I. Virtually no one on earth fuses their yin and yang energies before death. They are left in the same state a mundane person is, their yang energy scatters to the wind and what is left behind is a burnt out shell of their former self.

 

 

I have met a few (long since dead), who are still conscious past death. Perhaps either they used another method, or perhaps they were able to save some other part of themselves in some way? Maybe this is the goal of some of those old necromantic rites...

[JohnC]

I wouldn't think that JC's yin chi goes away when he is in an airplane, so perhaps whatever it is these microbes "eat" came from the earth and has just enough yin qi to sustain them.

 

What you mean though is you don't know right?

 

"Mo pai yin chi" as discussed in this thread is really "more_pie_guy's idea of yin chi he read from a book of a previous student of mopai."

 

So much of this discusion revolves around ideas that are backed up by hearsay.

 

---

 

Yin chi is yin chi, and there are systems that you can access it with, without grounding wires, lamb skin carpets or whatever else.

I've encounted at least 5 systems that take you to the top (as defined by a complete spiritual path), and I seem to find more as I practice.

 

I'm sure being in or touching the earth helps you access yin chi, and it isn't necessary.

 

John

Edited November 7, 2013 by JohnC

[BaguaKicksAss]

Here's how I see this thread...

 

I've worked with energetics for a few decades, and even taught it for most of that time. So seen a LOT of variation, and odd stuff.

 

However, I never thought of anything in the perspective of yin and yang before, or how exactly they interplay with each other.

 

The Chinese and Taoists have this down to a very awesome science (from my readings in JAJ's books so far anyways). Also just stuff I have seen mentioned around the forums and learning some medical qigong and Bagua .

 

So I noticed that More Pie Guy definitely has got something to his practice and his energy. A bit of talking with him, looking at his replies to my questions, and a bit of you can just feel that stuff.

 

However, my experiences with what I think were yin energy differ from what he's been talking about... so I got curious. I personally feel he's definitely got something going on with what he speaks of and does...... soooo I just decided to think OK so maybe they are different fields or frequencies of yin energy. Or perhaps it is just a different way of looking at it, or perhaps it is an entirely different energy entirely.

 

I just decided to move on from worrying about whether he was using the exact right term or not, but just learn from the information that everyone was presenting in this thread. I do that as well when people are debating over various chinese terms. I don't feel is reasonable (for me anyways) to throw out some perfectly good information because someone's use of one word differs from mine, or even from hoards of other peoples.

 

I have found that on TTBs, one thing that leads into the most debates is over a use of terms. I even ran into that myself with the word "demon".

 

So I figure don't throw out the baby with the bathwater, and just enjoy the good parts and skip over the rest.

 

Perhaps I should retitle this thread to "shades of Yin" or something .

 

Anyways, this is what gets me through many threads on this forum actually, I just go with it and pick out the gems. In case anyone is wondering how I survive in MoPai threads!

 

Not that anyone can't disagree of course, just more saying that I think a lot of good info is missed due to things like this.

 

And MPG, I'd say just ignore the whole earth is flat crowd (only using this analogy from MPG's perspective) a bit more .

[Thunder_Gooch]

 

I have met a few (long since dead), who are still conscious past death. Perhaps either they used another method, or perhaps they were able to save some other part of themselves in some way? Maybe this is the goal of some of those old necromantic rites...

All I know is if you meet a spirit which has a human mind, it's yin and yang chi were fused before it's death.

 

Perhaps there are other means to this end, I don't know.

[Thunder_Gooch]

 

What you mean though is you don't know right?

 

 

 

I don't know for certain where microbes in the stratosphere get yin chi? I assume from the nutrients they eat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Mo pai yin chi" as discussed in this thread is really "more_pie_guy's idea of yin chi he read from a book of a previous student of mopai."

 

 

 

Has nothing to do with my idea of it, it's how it is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So much of this discusion revolves around ideas that are backed up by hearsay.

 

 

 

Teachings are passed down from teacher to student, are by your definition "hearsay".

 

Surprisingly all students heard the same thing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yin chi is yin chi, and there are systems that you can access it with, without grounding wires, lamb skin carpets or whatever else.

 

No JohnC there are not.

 

Worldwide a handful of schools work with Yin energy, everything else works purely with yang energy.

 

If you are not grounded to the earth during meditation you are not absorbing yin chi.

 

End of discussion.

 

 

 

 

 

I've encounted at least 5 systems that take you to the top (as defined by a complete spiritual path), and I seem to find more as I practice.

 

I'll give you that this is what you believe, doesn't mean that's what is.

 

 

I'm sure being in or touching the earth helps you access yin chi, and it isn't necessary.

 

 

Being grounded to the earth during meditation is the only possible way. It is absolutely necessary to absorb yin energy.

 

If whatever you are calling yin energy can be felt in a waking state of consciousness, being grounded to the earth isn't necessary, then it is not yin energy. It's either yang energy or your imagination one.

 

Whatever you guys are experiencing it isn't what mo pai is calling yin chi.

Edited November 7, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[Thunder_Gooch]

.

Edited November 7, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[JohnC]

Has nothing to do with my idea of it, it's how it is.

No, it's only your idea of it. Not how it 'is'.

 

Teachings are passed down from teacher to student, are by your definition "hearsay".

 

Surprisingly all students heard the same thing.

I don't define that as haresay, because that is coming from the source of the lineage... and even if you wanted to say hearsay since it isn't the source, its at least a lineage holder, so a proclaimed teacher of the source.

Have you talked with any of those?

 

What is suprising to me though is that you disregard the opinion of a guy that actually has met and trained with John Chang, and has a personal relationship to Kostas.

 

No JohnC there are not.

 

Worldwide a handful of schools work with Yin energy, everything else works purely with yang energy.

 

If you are not grounded to the earth during meditation you are not absorbing yin chi.

 

End of discussion.

No, it's not the end of discussion... again, just your idea how you think things 'are'.

 

Being grounded to the earth during meditation is the only possible way. It is absolutely necessary to absorb yin energy.

 

If whatever you are calling yin energy can be felt in a waking state of consciousness, being grounded to the earth isn't necessary, then it is not yin energy. It's either yang energy or your imagination one.

 

Whatever you guys are experiencing it isn't what mo pai is calling yin chi.

Prove it. Preferably without quoting a book....

 

Have you experienced yin energy? Have you experienced any other systems yin energy? Do you even know what "mo pai yin chi" is, as described, demonstrated or instructed by a teacher of the system?

 

 

I get that all this is what you believe.

That doesn't make it true.

 

Regardless, my point in posting here is getting to that you have an idea that you have collected I'm sure after a lot of research about mopai... but how other systems collect yin chi it could be completely false. I get for how you think mopai handles yin chi, this is THE WAY IT IS.

 

Other systems may have different ways, and techniques... and might even deal with it easier.

 

John

Edited November 7, 2013 by JohnC

[MooNiNite]

Hi Bagua,

 

Regarding your dual cultivation concept, I would definitely agree. In describing the two types of the energy, I think the easiest way to think about it is the difference between "holding" and "being held". One does not notice the being held in the absence of someone holding unless one Is very advanced. You can also think of the being held energy like "surrender".

 

The dual cultivation loop does not require sex, but that is the most common way people come to it. People tend to forget that tantric originally meant energy practices. To get the loop going it requires that both parties are open at least to the heart. The most common flow is male 2nd chakra to female 2nd. The woman then "raises" the sexual energy to the heart and radiates it back to the man, who loops it back down so that the loop can form. More advanced spiritual practicioners can take it to the higher chakras (Dan tiens).

thanks jeff, always enjoy reading your posts.

 

dont you think this process happens without any effort if both people are at the heart chakra?

 

Have you heard of the Eqyptian Ahnk tantra? where they loop the sexual energy out the throat chakra and around the head. it is supposed to resemble the ankh shape.

[MooNiNite]

edited

Edited November 7, 2013 by MooNiNite

[Thunder_Gooch]

No, it's only your idea of it. Not how it 'is'.

It's exactly how it is.

 

I don't define that as haresay, because that is coming from the source of the lineage... and even if you wanted to say hearsay since it isn't the source, its at least a lineage holder, so a proclaimed teacher of the source.

What was taught is clear, you can play games of semantics all day if you wish however.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What is suprising to me though is that you disregard the opinion of a guy that actually has met and trained with John Chang, and has a personal relationship to Kostas.

 

It's easy to see the agenda at play with Mjj. He is a good guy but he wants the mo pai fanaticism to stop, so he endorses whatever teacher he can and tries to encourage people to take it up as a replacement. First it was KAP, now Stillness Movement. Tomorrow? Who knows.

 

What is surprising to me is Mjj uses his association with Kosta to give himself credibility, then in the same breath disagrees with Kosta on major issues, when it serves the purpose of promoting whatever system he is endorsing as a mo pai replacement.

 

What Jim and Kosta were taught is clear, feel free to plug your ears and pretend otherwise though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, it's not the end of discussion... again, just your idea how you think things 'are'.

It is the end of the discussion, it is how things are.

 

 

 

 

Prove it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

John came up behind me and pulled my shirt out of my pants. As

with Handoko, he put a knuckle up against the small of my back, in

the area of my kidneys.

 

Suddenly I felt like I was being pumped up with air. I could feel

my belly distending and my bladder being squeezed; I wanted to

pee. There was no other sensation; no cold, no rush of energy, no

electrical discharge, nothing. Just the feeling of fullness

 

 

 

I was silent for most of that evening. The existence of yin en-

ergy as a phenomenon that was associated with the energy field of

our planet could possibly fill in many gaps in field theory in general.

What was it? John had said that its behavior was similar to that of an

electromagnetic field, that an insulator could block it, and that its

flow could be easily disrupted. How could any scientist characterize

a phenomenon he could not trace? And how could any scientist re-

sist such a challenge? For example, germs and bacteria float around

us and through us by the billions, but we cannot directly perceive

them; it was not until the discovery of the microscope that they

could be traced. To do the same for yin energy we would have to

first—like a new Leeuwenhoek—find a way to quantify and measure

it, and then use this information to present its existence to the scien-

tific community of the world.

 

John had mentioned that a student had to be at least Level Three

to be able to sense the yin; that a human being, by his own nature

yang, cannot sense yin energy directly. Rather, a human senses the

presence of yin by its reaction to the yang. Here is an unidentified

force that leaves no trace of itself, that we cannot feel inside our own

bodies even in excess (unlike electricity, but perhaps like gravity),

but whose results I had witnessed, experienced, and felt.

 

 

-The Magus of Java p113

 

 

 

 

 

“Do you know why the man lost?” John asked suddenly from

behind us. He had crept up silently and was listening in.

“Because he had only yang ch’i?” I replied.

 

 

“That’s correct. He was a dedicated practitioner, but he didn’t

have all the proper information. What he did was ch’ikung, but not

neikung. A man can train all his life and not get anywhere unless he

is correct in his training. It doesn’t matter how much you train; only

how you train in whatever time you do practice.”

 

 

p97

 

 

 

“I have gone to China twice looking for people like

myself, hoping to find a brother. I was unsuccessful both times.”

“But you know of their existence now?” I asked.

“Yes,” he said. “I know that there are for sure two and I can sense

eight more. I think that there are at least ten.”

 

p93

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Preferably without quoting a book....

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTvyP_KWv50

 

 

 

Have you experienced yin energy?

Not something I will discuss in public.

Edited November 7, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[Thunder_Gooch]

Have you experienced any other systems yin energy?

You mean have I experienced other system's YANG energy. Worldwide there are only a small handful of true neigong schools like Mo Pai that work with yin energy surviving, EVERYTHING else is a yang only system.

 

End of discussion.

 

 

 

Do you even know what "mo pai yin chi" is

If you mean can I define in via a physics text book, no because it hasn't been integrated into our scientific paradigm yet.

 

 

I get that all this is what you believe.

Not what I believe. This is how reality is.

 

 

but how other systems collect yin chi it could be completely false.

Other systems don't work with yin, they are yang only.

 

Worldwide there are a small handful of schools which work with yin remaining.

 

Yin as defined by other systems is either active imagination, or a quality of yang chi they are working with.

 

That's how it is.

Edited November 7, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy