A call for a revolution

[9th]

[Brian]

You're doing better, but if this is your best work. An argument littered with false quotations, blunt lies, personal attacks mixed in with a few big words you looked up, and seasoned with ignorance. I will no longer respond to your comments and I suggest everyone else does the same.

 

Are you sure you want to continue to "discuss" with me? I'm not even trying, you are making yourself look like a fool. - personal attack.

 

^^^You keep saying that but yet...

 

 

Likewise, you keep saying this thread isn't about <that-guy> but you repeatedly write at length to prove to me what an awesome person he is. I say let him demonstrate it himself through his actions, OK?

 

So, your personal attacks and attempts at character assassination aside, where did you get the notion that I think "those aristocrats with all the money" shouldn't "help us" (I use your words here to call attention to your class-warfare language) or that I draw some sort of line "when we talk about the rich helping poor people"? I think everyone should look in their own hearts and help everyone to the extent they can and feel so moved. That is the essence of charity and free-will, and it has nothing to do with wealth or income or power or status or bloodlines or celebrity or position or political ideology. (Panda, this is what I meant in that other thread about "false egalitarianism...")

 

Celebrities generally make poor role-models but that is not always the case. Same goes in the broader sense for athletes, entertainers, bankers, CEO, and religious leaders, to name a few. You seem to think this is about wealth somehow, though, so let's talk about that aspect for a moment.

 

Most aspiring athletes never make it to the pros and most professional athletes make very little over their lifetimes in terms of return for their effort. Some are moderately successful and some attain superstar status. Of those very few, some demonstrate admirable traits and some are self-absorbed jerks. In either case, that's their choice. I don't begrudge the highly paid athlete for his or her success and I don't feel that their income in any way impacts my ability to convert my own energy into wealth if that is my desire -- or impacts my capacity for charity, for that matter. I may ridicule those who affect what I view as false high-mindedness or who flaunt conspicuous consumption, and I may laud those who seem grounded and well-intentioned, but that is a commentary on their character rather than their success.

 

Most aspiring entertainers never make a career of it, either. Of those that do, most earn some sort of base wage (depending on their particular industry) while a few do quite well and a handful attain superstar status. <see above>

 

Have you ever met a banker? I mean, have you ever had a personal discussion with one outside of their professional capacity? Or is your knowledge second- or third-hand? I ask because I've known quite a few over the years. A couple of my college buddies went into banking and I've had friends and neighbors over the years who are/were in the industry. In fact, I currently know two bank presidents and they are not only among the hardest working and most forthright people I know but they also raise families and actively participate in and contribute to our community, helping those in need with both labor and treasure without any sort of "class" or "party" or "denomination" litmus test. Are there some in the industry who are political opportunists and power-hungry greedy bastards? Absolutely! Unfortunately, the last few decades' presidential administrations seem to have sought them out as partners, too.

 

How about CEOs? Know any of them? I'll bet you do. Nearly anyone who owns a small business is a CEO, including many sole-proprietorships. About half of the private-sector jobs in the US are in small businesses. Got an aunt who runs a pizza parlor or a cousin who has a three-chair barber shop? Yep, they're probably CEOs. They are not only responsible for the financial well-being of their own families but, if they are lucky enough to have their dreams take wings, the bear some level of responsibility for the financial well-being of the families of their employees, too. Long hours, lots of responsibilities, little gratitude and on average not a whole lot of wealth being accumulated. As with any other line of work, you find some are jerks, some are salt of the earth and most are somewhere in between.

 

So what happens when the businesses get larger? Well, typically, the responsibilities get larger, too. If the company becomes large enough and successful enough, it might "go public" -- in which case the owners are a bunch of other people, stockholders who invest their own hard-earned money into the corporation and who are resting a portion of their families' financial well-being on the CEO, in addition to the obligation to the employees and the CEO's own family. The shareholders select a group of trusted advisors to represent them and this Board of Directors is responsible for establishing the policies according to which the company is to operate, and they hire a CEO to carry out the operations of the business. If the assets of the business are significant and if lots of people are depending on the success of this business for their livelihood, there is a desire to recruit the best and brightest into this role.

 

This is not dissimilar to how a sports team operates. Team ownership selects a general manager who then hires talented individuals who can get the job done -- coaches, players, staff, etc. Sometimes the team pays a lot of money for the right person for the job, sometimes a lot of money isn't needed, and sometimes the person can't get the job done and has to be replaced. Only that team can determine who is the appropriate person for a given position or what the appropriate compensation is, and the teams success or failure hinges on those choices.

 

Are there asshole sociopath CEOs? Most certainly! In fact, the corporate CEO is one of the positions most likely to attract sociopaths (along with attorneys, surgeons and politicians). But there are also lots of responsible and compassionate c-levels in companies of every size.

 

Honestly, I put this out there but don't expect you to glean much from it. You are currently in the middle of an indoctrination of which you are unaware. Additionally, as Clemenceau said, "not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head" -- personally, I think that maxim is an overstatement but I also think there is a lot of merit to it...

 

 

Oh! And as to the suggestion that I ran away from this thread when you stated that I was composing another reply (which you vowed to ignore), it may be that I had returned to my computer later in the day and clicked "view new Content but didn't make it back down the list to your thread, or it may be that I left that computer on the thread all night but clicked View New Content from my smartphone. Honestly don't remember. I know I didn't visit TTB from my third device yesterday, though, so it would be one of those two.

 

EDIT: Replaced an errant "their" with a "there" and replaced "employment" with "line of work"

Edited November 1, 2013 by Brian

[abandonhope]

Ignoring. I don't care to argue with you. You make up arguments, and misquote people, in the academic world that is a big no no. You spent 20to 30 minutes writing about sports and small business owners. I have no time for you.

[9th]

[abandonhope]

I'll still be your friend though Brian.

[skydog]

that second clip jetsun posted is hilarious, not sure I would have such patience or humour.

 

I used to play those little games where people would act manipulatively to each other and use little tactics and put downs and jokes "eg cool tie man"

 

but that was when I was like 18.

 

If someone did that to me, these days, Id either just ignore or honestly ask them about their behaviour....

 

but I guess hes trying to promote himself...hilarious..

[Brian]

I'll still be your friend though Brian.

Good. I certainly held no ill will towards you, and I'm sorry I pulled your string in the earlier posts.

Edited November 2, 2013 by Brian

[abandonhope]

I was never upset. I just like a strong argument.

[Brian]

I'd stopped pushing your buttons on that last long post, though.

 

 

EDIT: Well... Mostly...

 

Edited November 2, 2013 by Brian

[Marblehead]

I was never upset. I just like a strong argument.

Come over and talk about philosophy with me then. I promise an arguement. Hehehe. It's strength would be determined subjectively.

[abandonhope]

Come over and talk about philosophy with me then. I promise an arguement. Hehehe. It's strength would be determined subjectively.

Well I can't say i know enough about philosophy to carry in informed argument. As you can tell I like to win. Though I can't get better until I practice.

 

 

You wern't pushing my buttons Brian. I just like to argue with people, and when people mess up like mis quote me, or w.e I will capitalize on that error and strike viciously. If you caught me doing that I'm sure you would of said the same things I said to you.

[Marblehead]

Well I can't say i know enough about philosophy to carry in informed argument. As you can tell I like to win. Though I can't get better until I practice.

Yep. Even though practice might not make us perfect, at least we learn what we are and are not capable of.

[GrandmasterP]

Russell Brand's bought and paid for.

All these entertainers put on 'bread and circuses' for our entertainment.

Full of sound and fury but signifying very little.

A distraction perhaps?

 

[Thunder_Gooch]

No revolution ever happens until the people are so angry, so miserable, that they would rather die than continue living that way. When people have lost everything and are ready to die, then things change and not before.

[zanshin]

I think the cult of personality is too deeply embedded for even revolution to uproot. Revolution is upheaval and sweeping change, even though I think change is needed, I don't want that. People might die and too many already fragile people will be broken. I'd rather see gradual purposeful change with reassessments and adjustments based on intellectual criteria not what leader (or celebrity) pulls out the most charismatic message. No quick fix for complex systems.